Thoughts on FE Remasters?

[Sentacotus]

The biggest thing PoR had going against it was it being released at the nearly the end of the GCN's life. It gave it a very short print run and time to sell on the system before support for the system was cut. Pretty difficult for any game to get good sales in the last year or so of a console's life let alone a Fire Emblem game back in those days.

And yeah if I hadn't known about Ike being in Brawl I'll be honest I probably would have never heard of Radiant Dawn at all. I don't recall seeing anything about FE10 at all aside from it sitting on the shelf at stores.

[Anacybele]

Same here, I never knew anything about PoR or RD until I played Ike in Brawl and looked PoR up. And yeah, PoR wasn't helped by its release time either. And RD is its direct sequel and people aren't as interested in sequels like that if they never played or couldn't play the prequel.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Anacybele

[Jave]

Oh yeah, not to mention that both PoR and RD received good ratings overall. That surely isn't the reason for poor sales.

FE10 is actually the lowest-rated FE game in the west according to Metacritic. FE9 and FE8 are tied at third worst, with FE11 being second worst.

[solrocknroll]

Fanservice isn't inherently a bad thing. Kuzakihara's a fine art direction. It's not like females are being really objectified here because women like Camilla do indeed exist. Not to mention that Male Fighters and Odin get in on the fanservice too. In fact, Odin shows more skin than any other character in the series. No other character wears see-through pants.

[Anacybele]

FE10 is actually the lowest-rated FE game in the west according to Metacritic. FE9 and FE8 are tied at third worst, with FE11 being second worst.

Doesn't mean it got a low rating. I've seen most critics give it at least a 7/10 or 75/100. Which isn't bad at all.

Fanservice isn't inherently a bad thing. Kuzakihara's a fine art direction. It's not like females are being really objectified here because women like Camilla do indeed exist. Not to mention that Male Fighters and Odin get in on the fanservice too. In fact, Odin shows more skin than any other character in the series. No other character wears see-through pants.

I never said all fanservice was bad. But the fanservice in Awakening and Fates is mostly stupid and forced. I don't want cutscenes with sexually designed women shoving her boobs, ass, and vagina in my face, please. And nobody said only females were the problem, I find Odin's design and the male Berserkers stupid as well. I just feel females are more easily too sexualized and fanservicey, as I'm tired of all the pantsless females, huge balloon boobs, and weird/forced thigh holes. Not only is it impractical, but it's just stupid-looking to me and plenty of other people. So in the case of Awakening and Fates, the fanservice is mostly bad. Kuzakihara's direction is not a fine direction at all and he needs to go.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Anacybele

[Jave]

Doesn't mean it got a low rating. I've seen most critics give it at least a 7/10 or 75/100. Which isn't bad at all.

You're right. It's not bad separately, but the problem is that when a game is the lowest rated game in a series, people tend to look at that game to see what's wrong with the series.

[Hardin]

lolwut? Wrong, dude. Entirely wrong. PoR and RD barely got any advertising. Only one of them even appeared at E3 at all. There were no commercials or any big promotions for them or anything of the sort. Why do you think a lot of people didn't know about them for awhile? And same old art style? WTF are you talking about? Senri Kita never did art for any other FE games besides these two. They didn't share their art style with other FE games at all. And most people seem to prefer PoR and RD's art style and designs to those of Awakening and Fates and I've also seen plenty of people say that Kusakihara needs to be replaced because of how stupid and fanservicey some designs look (Kozaki isn't to blame because he doesn't draw that stuff in his art when he's doing it on his own time). You are quite inaccurate here.

Oh yeah, not to mention that both PoR and RD received good ratings overall. That surely isn't the reason for poor sales.

You have no idea what you're talking about. I was around way back when Path of Radiance was in development and I followed it quite closely. Hell, I was reading about the game before Sacred Stones had even been announced to the public. You couldn't read an issue of Famitsu or Dengeki Nintendo without seeing Fire Emblem plastered all over in those days. Both games were advertised on TV, they had no shortage of promotion. And yes they used the same style as the previous games because all the designs were created by series veterans, with supervision by Masahiro Higuchi. Senri Kita was only a contract illustrator, the look of the characters was handled by Sachiko Wada, Daisuke Izuka, and Yoko Nakai and it shows. I am shocked that a mega fan like you weren't aware of this basic fact.

[Anacybele]

You're right. It's not bad separately, but the problem is that when a game is the lowest rated game in a series, people tend to look at that game to see what's wrong with the series.

True, but I don't think IS ever found the problems or fixed what was wrong. RD's problems were character availability, shitty support system, and some bad writing (though not all bad). While that first one isn't an issue in FE games today, current FE games still have some bad to mediocre writing. Fates is better than Awakening, but still no PoR in terms of writing quality. An FE game has yet to surpass PoR in the support system, writing, and story departments, imo. Forcing kids into the game and making designs more fanservicey isn't fixing what was wrong with RD either. There was absolutely nothing wrong with PoR and RD's designs, they were amazing.

EDIT: Hardin, you do realize that Famitsu and Dengeki don't exist in the west? And that not everybody reads them, even in Japan? And that those commercials didn't exist out here either? You're the one that has no clue what he's talking about. Awakening was advertised to hell everywhere. PoR and RD were not and had a heavy shortage of promotion/advertising.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Anacybele

[MCProductions]

Okay, I'm probably an odd case, but I actually remember seeing POR advertisements, and I never saw ANYTHING for Awakening until the game had already been out for a year.

[Anacybele]

Yeah, you're an odd case, I'm pretty sure. I saw nothing on PoR, but I saw a crapton of stuff for Awakening. TV commercials, Direct trailers, promotional posters and such, and it was all over GameInformer magazine. I didn't have GameInformer back in 2005 when PoR came out, but I highly doubt it was featured in it, at least until it came out and got rated. I couldn't watch Nintendo Direct back then either, I believe.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Anacybele

[Hardin]

EDIT: Hardin, you do realize that Famitsu and Dengeki don't exist in the west? And that not everybody reads them, even in Japan? And that those commercials didn't exist out here either? You're the one that has no clue what he's talking about. Awakening was advertised to hell everywhere. PoR and RD were not and had a heavy shortage of promotion/advertising.

I have always been referring to this in a Japanese context because Fire Emblem games are made in Japan with a Japanese audience in mind. When Nintendo looks at sales numbers for the series, they always look at Japan as their primary source, overseas sales are an entirely separate discussion. It is FACT that the Tellius saga was given proper promotion in its primary market, no amount of spin doctoring or goalpost moving will change that.

[Anacybele]

I have always been referring to this in a Japanese context because Fire Emblem games are made in Japan with a Japanese audience in mind. When Nintendo looks at sales numbers for the series, they always look at Japan as their primary source, overseas sales are an entirely separate discussion. It is FACT that the Tellius saga was given proper promotion in its primary market, no amount of spin doctoring or goalpost moving will change that.

And I have always been referring to worldwide sales/marketing, not only Japan. Also, there's no way FE is made with only Japanese in mind. Why would they even be released overseas if that was the case? If you're going to release something somewhere, you need to appeal as much as possible to all of your audiences, not just one. No Nintendo game being released overseas caters only to Japanese. Smash especially proves this with additions like Little Mac who are only popular in the west.

Also, fun fact: When RD Ike was revealed for Smash 4, a lot of Japanese reactions were written as if they'd never heard of RD.

It's fact that PoR and RD didn't get nearly as much advertising as Awakening and Fates did. Worldwide.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Anacybele

[Hardin]

When Nintendo green lights a game for production, especially RPGs like Fire Emblem it is budgeted within the context of the local market. This is standard operating procedure for NCL and is why sales have to be discussed in a Japanese context.

[Sentacotus]

When Nintendo green lights a game for production, especially RPGs like Fire Emblem it is budgeted within the context of the local market. This is standard operating procedure for NCL and is why sales have to be discussed in a Japanese context.

Although they seem to have done something right with the way they've marketed things like Awakening and Fates in the West and the franchise is healthier than ever. That might be the way they did things in the past but if they don't realize the impact and scale of the Western market especially now then that would actually explain alot.

[Anacybele]

LordTaco gets it. Awakening and Fates drove up FE sales, so they're doing something right, apparently, by advertising more in the west. I also figure that characters like Ike would appeal more to the western audience too. People thought Ike was generally hated in Japan, remember? He somehow became popular there anyway if that one Famitsu poll is anything to go by, but I still feel like Ike (or RD Ike at least) was meant to cater more to western fans given his "American" look with his muscles and manliness. Hector by extent also fits this. But with so little advertising in the west back in those days, hardly anybody knew of these guys, at least until Ike showed up in Smash.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Anacybele

[Light Strategist]

I'd be for this. I literally described the idea of doing 6 and 7 in chronological order as one game with more up-to-date features to a friend of mine on Facebook not even 2 hours ago.

[Hardin]

Although they seem to have done something right with the way they've marketed things like Awakening and Fates in the West and the franchise is healthier than ever. That might be the way they did things in the past but if they don't realize the impact and scale of the Western market especially now then that would actually explain alot.

It is important that we remember how Awakening was promoted in reality. Nintendo did not put a lot of muscle behind the game in the west, even choosing not to show it at E3 (which both Tellius games were), with Reggie only releasing a text statement after internet rage forced him to do so. Awakening was fortunate because it was released in that sweet spot between Christmas and the spring rush. Now, I agree that Fates absolutely was given a large push by Nintendo, but it took Awakenings success for that to happen.

If we look at actual data we can see that Awakening was successful in large part because it had incredibly positive word of mouth, much more so than other games in the series. Awakening absolutely had a tremendous opening week, but it dethroned Binding Blade as the best selling modern FE game by becoming a phenomena in the public sphere.

[Anacybele]

Those are BRIEF E3 appearances. It's not like full trailers were shown and Reggie discussed them in length. Those are easily forgettable. I know I wouldn't have gotten interested in them just by those little appearances alone.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Anacybele

[The Geek]

If we look at actual data we can see that Awakening was successful in large part because it had incredibly positive word of mouth, much more so than other games in the series. Awakening absolutely had a tremendous opening week, but it dethroned Binding Blade as the best selling modern FE game by becoming a phenomena in the public sphere.

Yeah, related to this I have to say that one of the biggest things working in Awakening and Fates' favors was that they came out after the big boom of social media, allowing word of mouth about the games to spread farther and way more quickly.

[Hardin]

Those are BRIEF E3 appearances. It's not like full trailers were shown and Reggie discussed them in length. Those are easily forgettable. I know I wouldn't have gotten interested in them just by those little appearances alone.

Having an E3 presence gets eyeballs on the game and creates media buzz. Every write up about what was shown is a benefit for the game, that isn't even up to debate.

I understand that you love the Tellius saga, you as an individual are free to love any game you choose and I do not judge you for it. But it is plainly clear that all you're interested in is pretending that Tellius was a victim of Nintendo's marketing plan, and not a symbol of franchise stagnation and decline.

[Anacybele]

Having an E3 presence gets eyeballs on the game and creates media buzz. Every write up about what was shown is a benefit for the game, that isn't even up to debate.

I understand that you love the Tellius saga, you as an individual are free to love any game you choose and I do not judge you for it. But it is plainly clear that all you're interested in is pretending that Tellius was a victim of Nintendo's marketing plan, and not a symbol of franchise stagnation and decline.

LOL. Wow. This has absolutely nothing to do with my love for Tellius, I'm only telling the truth. I believe it didn't get a fair chance at good sales and that's that. Besides, if you can accuse me of bias, I can easily accuse you of anti-bias. You don't appear to be a Tellius fan at all. But I'm not doing that because it's silly.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Anacybele

[MCProductions]

Here's something I'm legitimately curious about, how much advertisement did FE3 get in Japan, considering that game beat Awakening in Japanese sales, tho I believe Fates beat FE3?

Also, tho I admittedly dislike Tellius, I'm almost certain I saw more ads for POR than Awakening, tho I will say I never saw anything for RD.

Edited April 10, 2016 by MCProductions

[Anacybele]

You said before that you're probably an odd case. :P

Also, Tellius isn't the only saga that I thought deserved another shot. FE7 and FE8 got just as little advertising, and I don't even like the former. I did actually see one FE8 ad though, and it was in a booklet that came with Zelda: TMC. And I was actually interested in it. But I completely forgot later. Likely because I never saw anything else on it. Just one ad won't get you a lot of interest, you have to put out a bunch of them.

Although, FE7 and 8 both got released on the VC, so there's little point in remaking/remastering them now. That's why I've talked more about Tellius, as they have yet to get a re-release.

[Hardin]

LOL. Wow. This has absolutely nothing to do with my love for Tellius, I'm only telling the truth. I believe it didn't get a fair chance at good sales and that's that. Besides, if you can accuse me of bias, I can easily accuse you of anti-bias. You don't appear to be a Tellius fan at all. But I'm not doing that because it's silly.

I have played and own every game in this franchise. I consider some of the Tellius characters like Titania to be among the best designs that this franchise has released in 25 years of history. I do have a bias, but that bias is called reality.

NCL and IS were not creating games that brought in new fans, they were games that preached to the choir and served only the shrinking old guard. That is why the series needed such a radical shake up when Awakening was in development.

@MCProductions: FE3 is still king, but Fates did dislodge FE4 which had been holding in second for years.

[solrocknroll]

LOL. Wow. This has absolutely nothing to do with my love for Tellius, I'm only telling the truth. I believe it didn't get a fair chance at good sales and that's that. Besides, if you can accuse me of bias, I can easily accuse you of anti-bias. You don't appear to be a Tellius fan at all. But I'm not doing that because it's silly.

There's no such thing as "anti-bias" because bias is bias on either side of the spectrum.

I'd also say that Tellius got a fair shot. Tellius isn't even that interesting so it isn't like people missed out on the experience of their lives. Tellius definitely was basically the same stuff people could expect to see from FE. If anything, Shadow Dragon should have been advertised more due to the DS's large install base at the time. That way, we would have received Heroes of Light and Shadow in the first place.