screenshot Ike's FE Megathread {15.5}

[sirmola]

I think you're talking about Bargain not Knight. The Knight Ring doesn't return in Gen 2. I always grab it but then pawn it off, Lachesis has very little use for it ((and literally no use for it after promotion)). Completely agree with passing on Bargain though. It's not really important in Gen 1, there's nothing particularly expensive that needs to be fixed a lot ((Holsety maybe I guess but eh)) while in Gen 2 it can really be beneficial in Shanan's or Aless' hands.

You are right. I meant bargin (droped by the first boss of chapter 7), as opposed to knight (which is unobtainable unless you inherit it). Shannon is arguably the best user of the bargin ring.

[Katie]

I wouldn't say bargain ring is useless in gen 1. I find Adean really wants it, seeing as she has trouble earning money given she can't fight in the arena until she promotes.

[sirmola]

I wouldn't say bargain ring is useless in gen 1. I find Adean really wants it, seeing as she has trouble earning money given she can't fight in the arena until she promotes.

THis is true. Levin also likes it latter.

[Integrity]

alright stellaris happened but i'm back now update forthcoming in the next day or so

[Psych]

I know you already probably decided who to pair Aideen with but if Claude is getting paired it should be with her. Lana is so much more fun with it and I know you hate Lester

AideenxClaude

[Katie]

I think you should just use the subs. ALL of them.

[Darros]

Subs are cool but using all subs is kind of boring because it kind of takes away all the customization of FE4. And a lot of people have done sub runs too. That said I'm down for at least 1 or 2 pairs of subs because they're often regarded as pretty crappy when they're actually not that bad and they're fun to play as.

[Integrity]

I know you already probably decided who to pair Aideen with but if Claude is getting paired it should be with her. Lana is so much more fun with it and I know you hate Lester

AideenxClaude

that's a really convincing vote honestly i might go back on my pairing

[Darros]

If you do chalk my vote down for single Lachesis then.

[Psych]

nah Azel x Lachesis is kind of fun. it makes nanna an actual healer and both of em can use magic swords really well

but yeah chapter 6 rescue + fortify is hilarious

[Nintales]

nah Azel x Lachesis is kind of fun. it makes nanna an actual healer and both of em can use magic swords really well

but yeah chapter 6 rescue + fortify is hilarious

Aight, so I switch my votes : ClaudexAideen and AzelxLachesis. AzelxLachesis is an awesome pairing.

[Parrhesia]

I don't remember if I voted or not but yeah hazel and rachesis or whatever

[Katie]

Btw, bookofholsety has finally finished proofreading his FE4 translation, and has sent it to DDS(the hacker for the project), so we should expect a release very soon. I'm betting it'll be released tomorrow for FE4's 30th anniversary. I just figured I'd tell you so you can upgrade your translation. I myself am very hype for it.

[sirmola]

Btw, bookofholsety has finally finished proofreading his FE4 translation, and has sent it to DDS(the hacker for the project), so we should expect a release very soon. I'm betting it'll be released tomorrow for FE4's 30th anniversary. I just figured I'd tell you so you can upgrade your translation. I myself am very hype for it.

Will the rest of this playthrough be with the updated translation, or will you be keeping this patch for consistency?

Edited May 14, 2016 by sirmola

[Integrity]

keeping my patch

[Katie]

But the new patch will actually have a working epilogue! Surely you'd want to upgrade so you could critique the epilogue, no?

[Parrhesia]

There's some online translator for that. SMH kids these days and their competently-built translators! Back in my day the SNES FEs weren't complete without glitches, occasional crashes and outdated memes...

[Katie]

The patch is out now, in case you change your mind.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=63676

[Integrity]

Took a little longer than I expected. The funny thing is, I’ve been on the final skirmish for the last like two days, just couldn’t get the gumption up to actually do it.

Critiquing votes has led me to reneg on Azel/Aideen in favor of Claude/Aideen and leave Raquesis single. Awesome. Obviously it’s totally possible for me to fuck up and have had Azel stand with Aideen too much already and they end up married, but that’s half the run, right?

Where were we?

Right, the king is hiding in the castle of the guy who didn’t start attacking us, instead opting to hire brigands to raid his own land, and the king didn’t start getting snippy with him until Berlin had fallen. We’re back in Genealogy. And what would an update be if it didn’t start out with hella talking about banal stuff?

This is Voltz. Voltz owns, and he’s possibly one of the best characters in Genealogy, because he never breaks kayfabe. He’s a war criminal mercenary motherfucker, and that’s it. He’s cocky, he’s good, and he knows he’s working for bad people, but he’s just in it for a paycheck. He and Beowulf are good and cool here, this kind of tone would have been great for Genealogy if it had been consistent.

Beowulf suffers, though, compared to Voltz. Why? Voltz dies. Beowulf goes on to become a playable character, and this isn’t really referenced again. In fact, we’re given this bit of dialogue about a mercenary with scruples, which is pretty good, looking forward to incorporating him into – he has two more conversations. In the whole game. And they’re both with Raquesis. That’s Beowulf’s impact on the game. He appears, or is talked about, in one distinct scene more than Voltz. Fewer if you don’t marry him to Raquesis. He should have been the long mage-king of Agustria or something instead of Lewyn being in this game.

Ah, Christ. Jerry.

Lewyn and Sylvia’s introduction here is the picture of how Genealogy’s tone shifting (referred to previously as Anime) becomes awful.

[spoiler=the scene] Levin: “Sir, what’s all the turmoil?”

Villager: “Well, if it isn’t our little traveling bard. Best get a movin’. Bandits are headin’ this way.”

Levin: “Bandits? Where’s the Agustrian army at a time like this?”

Villager: “There’s mutiny in th’ streets, m’boy. Ain’t no-one got time t’worry about us! T’tell th’ truth, there’s a bit more to th’ story… Rumour has it Lord Macbeth himself set them bandits loose on our villages.”

Levin: “Whoa… he’s gotta go. Look, I’ll see what I can do. I’ll take care of that scumbag. And you can all whip up a nice reward for me when I get back.”

Villager: “There you go again with that big talk of yours. You best just get a move on. We ain’t got time to be gettin’ cosy with ya.”

Levin: “Sheesh… give me a little credit, would ya? Ahh… screw it.”

Sylvia: “Levin! You ain’t splittin’ on me, are ya?”

Levin: (crap..) Sylvia! Er… you found me, huh?

Sylvia: “You’ve had your fun with me so you just up and leave, huh?”

Levin: “Hey now… Be nice. We’ve only been out like what… 2 or 3 times together!? I mean come on! Besides you’re a traveling dancer, and I’m a bard. Doesn’t that about sum it up?”

Sylvia: “But you said you thought I was cute. That meant something to me.”

Levin: “Yeah, sometimes I say that. It don’t mean anything. No no! Don’t cry! I… I… Damn, now look. Everyone’s starin’ at us. Alright, you can come with me if you want. But things might get a little rough. You okay with that?”

Sylvia: “Yeah! I like it rough!”

Levin: “Sheesh… You were cryin’ like a baby a minute ago, now you’re all smiles.”

Sylvia: “What’s that?”

Levin: “Nevermind! Let’s go.”

The thing is, you can have a character that doesn’t take things seriously and pull that off. The problem is, it’s hard to do without really clashing with the rest of the tone; if you have a character who doesn’t take shit seriously, how do you differentiate them from comic relief? One way is to give them a reason to mature – which Genealogy tries to do and mostly succeeds (spoilers) with Mahnya dying and all that stuff in Chapter 4, which we’ll get to when we do.

Until then, you still have to have the character not be jarringly out-of-place, a thing Lewyn …does not pull off. He dated some chick, she cries at him to be able to travel with him, and he’s cocky enough to go attack an Agustrian lord on his own, and he’s buff enough to pull it off. He reads like a self-insert, but in a game that isn’t self-aware enough to make it funny.

On the other hand, Lewyn’s issues are pretty localized to this chapter. Sylvia, now, there’s a problem. Her character arc goes from “Yeah! I like it rough!” to …well, the same. She doesn’t mature at all, all the way up to her final conversations in Chapter 5. Everything about her just screams “oh yeah, remember? This is anime.” While Lewyn (eventually) becomes a way to handle a laissez-faire character pretty alright, even if he’s kind of painful to read in this chapter, Sylvia is a great study in how to do it wrong. In another game, an Advance Wars or whatever where war is aggressively fun, maybe, but Genealogy is pretty clearly trying to set the tone that shit sucks and Sylvia has zero interaction with that tone whatsoever.

Plus, I didn’t actually get these conversations for reasons, but…

[spoiler=come on] Alec: “Ah! So you’re Sylvia… Pardon me for sayin’ so, but you are fine!”

Sylvia: “Well, it’s about time someone appreciates my beauty! I tell ya…”

Alec: “Good thing I showed up, huh? Sure glad I found you in all this mess.”

Sylvia: “Me too!”

Alec: “You wanna hang out sometime?”

Sylvia: “You bet! I can show ya my special dance! I ain’t shown it to no one yet. Let’s just say it’s, ah… V-E-R-Y special!”

Alec: “W, whoa! That I want to see!”

Sylvia: “Eeee!! It’s Sir Sigurd!”

Sigurd: “Er… are you a dancer? You certainlly don’t belong out here. Now get back to the castle.”

Sylvia: “Sir, don’cha ya know who I am? I’m Sylvia. Call me Sylvie if ya like.”

Sigurd: “Look, I don’t have time for this. Now be a good little girl and run on back to the castle.”

Sylvia: “Good little gi… You ever see a little girl with THESE before!? Grr… what a moron.”

Sigurd: “Enough already!”

Sylvia: “Sigh… I’m just a lone flower upon the battleground. Beauty entrapped by adversity…”

Sigurd: “Now what’s she… Geez… I’m never going to get rid of her!”

Are you kidding?

Anyway, we shred this poor dude’s army to unlock the way for more talking.

Fury, in contrast to Lewyn, is Pretty Good. The new translation patch renamed her Erin, which I dig, but I’m going to try to maintain consistency as long as I’m doing this thread. Her conversation with Lewyn in this chapter is bad, but all Lewyn’s conversations in this chapter are bad, so it’s not her fault. She gets pissy with Shagall for being cagey with her, she generally acts understandably and respectably, befitting her position, and she treats the situation appropriately.

Except for her Lewyn conversation. Can’t be perfect.

Anyway, bitched about the Bargain Ring village enough, still saved it with Lewyn. It takes a Continue or a Critical proc, but it’s trivial to save at the beginning of the turn and abuse that. Or abuse savestates, if you’re a fucker.

THE POWER OF PURSUIT

This is different from, for instance, Lewyn’s stupid anime conversations precisely because it’s a silly easter egg ….uh, “conversation.” It’s overdone and silly, but it’s not breaking the flow of the game’s narrative. You have to go out of your way to see it. That’s totally fine.

To be perfectly honest, I probably wouldn’t have reloaded my last turn save if Beowulf had died here.

Not particularly, no.

Anyway, a total rout of Voltz and his crew, and then Macbeth’s crew, later, we get to Genealogy’s worst design decision.

Big Shield. What the hell? Bosses balloon to the point where most of your army can’t even engage them without being annihilated (mostly a second generation problem) and a whole lot of them from here on out just randomly negate attacks. It adds a whole extra layer of randomness to the game that really has no place being there – a particularly tough boss, or bosses that should flavorfully have it like Reptor, should totally have Big Shield. Unfortunately, every promoted General-type unit has it as a class skill, and so does Hilda. Yay.

Also, yeah, the previous boss this chapter had it too but he never sparked it. Poor dude. Basically just got shat on by Quan.

The amount of walking necessary in this chapter cannot be overstated, especially if you want to do shit like get the Bargain Ring on Aideen. I’m looking forward to Chapter 3 which does the same thing but with a much smaller area to go back and forth over.

Thread nerds, is it ever really explained who Filat is? Besides the dude who’s always right behind us, obviously, and who moves ridiculously fast.

Anyway, Filat brings a plot point with him, another instance of “the bad guys in g1 have literally all the power.” Sigurd, who has done nothing the entire game but extol the virtues of the king of Grannvale, is now believed to be consorting with Quan and Eldigan to murder the king of Grannvale or something, while Quan is following Sigurd to execute the king’s orders and Eldigan is both opposing them and in prison. And will be killed by them shortly.

Courtly scheming is a good way to build tension, but it’s not scheming if one party does all of the scheming totally unopposed. This way, it’s just the plot randomly moving forward in ways that remind you that an evil cult is in charge of everything. On top of that, we’re never shown the ramifications of any of this – our ally count across the first generation is Arvis briefly in chapter 0, Eldigan in chapter 1, the Cross Knights in chapter 2, the Silesians in chapter 4, and Quan in chapter 5. Three of those five are really just cutscenes that play out in-engine. The Cross Knights are an escort mission. Arvis just shows up to talk to you and fucks off.

Grannvale never sends us any support through the course of the game. Friendly Grannvalean soldiers never show up. Filat gives us money behind the scenes for preserving our castles, I guess, sanctioned by the king. The first time we actually see another Grannvalean force, this scheming has already come to fruition and we’ve been branded traitors and are being persecuted, so they’re enemies. Grannvale, in the scheme of things, could have been just the last enemy nation we invaded after invading Verdane, Agustria, Agustria again, and Silesia from the inside, or Sigurd could have been a totally independent lord, and the story would remain basically unchanged as far as game presentation goes.

Also in this conversation: Prince Kurth always goes to Sigurd’s dad for help with everything, which is upsetting to the evil men of the court – you’d think this makes Sigurd’s dad a pretty powerful dude, all cozied up to the prince and probably the king, but nah. He has pretty much no power to stop any of this and then he shows up dead on your doorstep.

This man only figured it out after we were halfway through the country. A+.

One way chapter 2 is awesome is that Shagall is just running backwards from castle to castle, mustering all the men he can and throwing them at your Carthaginian army, hoping to break you and send you back home. It’s bad drama, but it’s funny. Also, Fury acting like an actual human being considering Shagall, and Shagall talking shit about her behind her back. This conversation rules.

A million turns later, most of my lads are at least in position for maximal point-choking. From this point on is just smashing enemies, which is cool by me.

Like, SF realizes that this thing they’ve distilled Raquesis into is delivered by the equivalent of a housewife giving you secondhand news she read from a tabloid next to the register at Wal-Mart? Jeez.

Poor Raquesis went north to talk to the villages and keep the Cross Knights out of the thick of it. Which makes me realize just now that that villager told Raquesis that shit. Nice one. Everyone else slogs through a modestly bad (Genealogy does not play well with diagonals) but not offensive segment.

Meanwhile, what is dumb is Fury’s recruitment. Chick just flies straight at your home castle, and it’s on you to Return Lewyn there somehow. Then, once you’re there, she’ll happily throw herself at Lewyn (his clothes are weird to her, after all) and he’ll happily kill her right back.

And on top of that, the squad is perfectly happy to split up if you get cheeky, leaving someone fighting half the Fury Squad while Fury herself is still 12 squares north of it all. And of course Fury’s in the back.

And then the squad just fucks off when you recruit her! They don’t even stick around to help! What shitbags. Fury’s recruitment is stupid. After this happens, Lewyn and Sylvia go sit in the home castle because I’m not walking them back up to the front.

Not pictured: Lex napping just south of screen.

Rest in peace, caster man.

Turns out Shagall’s plan of “throw the entire army at them piece by piece” didn’t go very well. At least the final commander has the decency to be hesitant about it, God bless him.

Fortunately, now that that commander is gone, Manfroy comes back!! This always heralds Bad Plot, and this time is no exception. Manfroy pulls the exceptional game of “I didn’t tell you to get this mess, I just started it so it’s your fault.” Literally. Almost verbatim.

Manfroy: “I merely advised the removal of the king. He was getting in the way. I believe the rest is your doing. Wouldn’t you agree?”

Then he delivers the greatest advice: he tells Shagall to just go say he’s sorry to Eldigan, who still doesn’t suspect a thing and has been in the dungeon for an ambiguous amount of time. Elidgan eats it up offscreen, naturally, so I guess the advice was actually unsarcastically the greatest.

Nice. I like the Loptyr cult’s only problem solving skill among them. I think their Prominent Figure Casualty Rate is already around 10, and all of them were assassinations they organized directly, assassinations they organized indirectly (Shagall’s dad, etc.), or just dudes they killed randomly and got away with (rest in peace, king of Verdane.)

This game’s plot would probably have been really good if the Loptyr cult had been excised entirely, to be perfectly honest. Here’s a bonus village conversation about them:

[spoiler=villager somewhere in agustria] “I wonder if there still are any blood relatives of the Dark Lord Loputousu around… Each year big towns like Agusty and Mackily hold witch hunts and arrest a ton of people. Then they burn ’em at the stake for doin’ what? Absolutely nothin’! Is that nuts or what!?”

I guess nobody got the memo that the good guys killed all of the Loptyrs except exactly one a hundred years ago. Whoops.

Meanwhile, Aideen is still trying to catch up. Fuck your map design.

I also sort of pointlessly forgot about Fury floating over this mountain for five or so turns. Whoops.

Anyway, everyone catches up finally and Genealogy Happens. There’s really not much to say abo-

oh Christ

hehe.

So, uh, I actually took a pre-screenshot of Shagall’s skill set and I was going to be like, I bet I’ll tink off Big Shield and then I can reveal the screenshot of Shagall’s skill set and be like “oh yeah of course Genealogy.”

But no. Jamke just fucking murdered him. Down to 3 health in one bout of fighting.

Holy shit.

I guess I was wrong about poor Jamke.

Fuck ya.

So somebody pulled Shagall down and saved his life – note that this conversation is hilariously unchanged if Sigurd kills Shagall and seizes the capital in the same move – and who do you reckon?

Dude.

[spoiler=eldigan is a bad character] Eltshan: “I did, Sigurd. I saved the king. He is all that’s left of Agustrian royalty. I don’t care what he’s done. He’s still my master, and I can’t sit back and let him die.”

Sigurd: “Eltshan!? You’re not hurt! What a relief! I heard you’d been captured. We’ve been looking for you.”

Eltshan: “Yeah, I managed somehow. Sigurd, what’s going on here? Your army has gained control of the capital city, and I hear that Grandbell has dispatched officials to each of our castles. You’re treating us just like we were a tributary state. Did Grandbell take occupation of Agustria while I was away!? Your answer better be good, Sigurd!”

Sigurd: “I know, Eltshan. It doesn’t make any sense to me either. But, you aside, all of the lords of Agustria suddenly became hostile towards Grandbell. For the time being, I’ve been ordered to stay put so as to maintain public order. Eltshan, please… Just give me one year. By then the peace should be restored as well as Grandbell’s and Agustria’s relationship. And then we’ll leave Agustria. Our king has given me his word on this.”

Eltshan: “Hmm… Really? Well, I’ll take your word for it. Okay. You’ve got one year. Until then, I’ll be up north at Madino Castle protecting my lord. I’ve also got the Cross Knights stationed up at Fort Silvail. If it came to it, I could take you out in a moment’s notice… Sigurd, you break your promise and you can count on that! You got me!?”

Sigurd: “Of course! I give you my word. Eltshan, trust me!”

Seriously. What happened to that whole lifelong trust nonsense? Eldigan puts literally everything on the line for the dude who ambiguously (note: not actually ambiguous, only Eldigan doesn’t know) killed his own dad, whom Eldigan loved, and threw him in the dungeon for no reason. He doesn’t even ask about his beloved sister, neither she him. His only point in this conversation is to blame us, personally, for the invasion of Agustria, a thing the entire peasantry have hailed us for, and only relent under duress. Eldigan even finishes it up by-

Literally threatening us. I know what Eldigan was going for as his only character note, that he’d be the obligatory tragically heroic general of the evil empire, but the tragically heroic general has to have a reason to stay. Eldigan’s only been abused by his country on camera, and we’re told he had it really good until just now, but he sticks around. He doesn’t have a personal reason to stay anymore – the king he loved is dead and his sister is with us. Eldigan’s only character trait is that he’s too blind slash dumb to see that Shagall is hilariously evil even discounting the Loptyr cult’s meddling. He’s as one-note as any character in Fates. Fuck you, Eldigan. The resolution of your story is as stupid as all the middle bits of it, but at least it’s a resolution.

The good news is we’re through the nadir of Genealogy now, and probably the nadir of the entire series before Fates. Chapter 3 is less bad and also way shorter and, unlike chapter 2, has good points! I’ll get to be positive about something more significant than Fury and Voltz! :D

Same deal with Sylvia and Fury as I had with Raquesis: tell me who and tell me why. The why's the important part.

[Tryhard]

kill sylvia, she's bad and annoying

Fury and Claude is interesting because it makes them both good at healing, which is something. Fee does decent with magic weapons.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Tryhard

[Integrity]

kill sylvia, she's bad and annoying

right that's settled let's hear cases for fury now

[Darros]

Out of curiosity is the Fury recruitment scene bad simply because Levin is bad or does that reflect on Fury as well?

Corple sucks and Laylea is amazing so it's only natural Sylvia doesn't get paired.

Fury should be paired with Lex because Elite on Fee is great and there's no pursuit problem here. Fury ((other than Ayra but its a class skill so meh)) is the only character with pursuit to pass on to her kids so using Lex here means there's no miss out.

[solrocknroll]

I get why you say that Sylvia and Eldigan are bad, but I'd hardly say Fates characters are one-note by any stretch. Hisame, Saizo, and Orochi are some of my favorite characters because I find them pretty interesting.

there's also the one note characters but I still think that Setsuna is one of the best characters in the series irregardless

[Refa]

wtf is irregardless a word that's so dumb

Fury x Levin because it's so good that it's canon. Also because it justifies Sety being the best...in FE5. Also Holsety gets passed down because Tiltyu has funnier pairings, and Sylvia...well...uh...yeah.

[Tryhard]

right that's settled let's hear cases for fury now

it doesn't take much convincing does it

wtf is irregardless a word that's so dumb

it is