Moulder!

[Florete]

Ellis is the single worst character in the series (For FE1 and Book 1), Sleuf and Almalda are pretty bad, and Ellen certainly isn't good for most the game. Corple actually is pretty decent with Levin as his father, though.

Your's is the correct. ^_^

I've only played 4, 6-10.

Correct? So, other characters being better makes her a bad unit? That doesn't make much sense.

[Reikken]

Ellen certainly isn't good for most the game.

Ellen is good for most of the game.

[ZephyrD]

So, other characters being better makes her a bad unit? That doesn't make much sense.

Not quite, the fact that she comes half way through the game at level 3, is a major player too. Her D in Staves doesn't help either.

Being outclassed certainly doesn't help though.

Edited November 12, 2008 by ZephyrShakuraus

[sandmanccl]

I happen to think L'Arachel is awesome for having support options with other good units (for when I feel like supporting her with those other units, to you assholes that assume all supports are a total given, so shut it in advance, thank you), and her grotesque stat gains. Healers shouldn't be in the line of fire, pretty much ever, so I don't give a damn if she's physically weak until promotion. When she does promote, she's nigh unhittable, has passable defense for a mage, and hits like a ton of bricks because of her overpowered magic growth.

There are more unusable units in FE10 than there are in FE8, so make of that what you will.

[Defeatist Elitist]

L'Arachel ain't bad, she just isn't GOOD.

[Florete]

L'Arachel ain't bad, she just isn't GOOD.

Although I still disagree, that's a statement I'll live with.

[Defeatist Elitist]

I happen to think L'Arachel is awesome for having support options with other good units (for when I feel like supporting her with those other units, to you assholes that assume all supports are a total given, so shut it in advance, thank you), and her grotesque stat gains. Healers shouldn't be in the line of fire, pretty much ever, so I don't give a damn if she's physically weak until promotion. When she does promote, she's nigh unhittable, has passable defense for a mage, and hits like a ton of bricks because of her overpowered magic growth.

I'll ignore Supports for now, so don't worry.

I'm not seeing those Grotesque stat gains here... At least, not in comparison to other units. She's got very similar growths to Artur actually, she just has lots of lolluck, and a bit more Speed, with less HP, Skill and Res. Of course, her Base Res is a little better and all, but Artur does start a level lower.

Natasha's growths kick her ass, although L'Arachel's bases are a little better.

Moulder's growths are all around more balanced than hers, but her bases win, and I will go in to Supports a tiny bit here, Moulder's Supports are the best in the series. L'Arachel cannot compare. Even with her dream Supports.

I could go into further detail, BUUUUT.

They all have a massive level lead on her. She joins WAAAAAAY to late. So basically, why use a unit that takes such effort to level up and use who will turn out just as well as other units that are already there.

But regardless of that, if you DO do it, she's pretty good, so I'd say she's a pretty middle of the road character.

[Florete]

Thing about L'Arachel is, unlike someone like Ewan, she isn't hard to pick up and use. Her level may be low, but she'd be just as easy to use if she came 7 levels higher on account of healing and not fighting.

[Defeatist Elitist]

Thing about L'Arachel is, unlike someone like Ewan, she isn't hard to pick up and use. Her level may be low, but she'd be just as easy to use if she came 7 levels higher on account of healing and not fighting.

That's why I said she's not bad. She's mediocre. Ewan is bad because he takes a fair bit of effort. L'Arachel is mediocre because while she's nothing really special, she's no real trouble to raise.

[Junkhead]

Moulder is the Boulder(from Avatar)

He fights for his friends AND his nation!!!!

Current Moulder Stats on my new PT( I've never used him)

Lvl 20/1 Sage

Hp: 37

Mag: 12

Skill:13

Spd:17

Luck:8

Def: 12!!! HOLY FRICKING SHIT

Res:13

Moulder, when next to Vanessa(A support) has a total of 15 defense. Sword users do 0-3 damage. fucking awesome. Chapter 11 btw. No Valni abuse, but a little arena for money and much healing.

If you think your Moulder is stong, check out mine:

[sandmanccl]

I'll ignore Supports for now, so don't worry.

I'm not seeing those Grotesque stat gains here... At least, not in comparison to other units. She's got very similar growths to Artur actually, she just has lots of lolluck, and a bit more Speed, with less HP, Skill and Res. Of course, her Base Res is a little better and all, but Artur does start a level lower.

The only stats she doesn't max at level cap are HP and defense, and maybe skill. Basically, 3 things that don't matter to spellcasters. I dunno why you wouldn't want a good luck gain, either, because a raw % chance to dodge regardless of enemy skill is pretty bad-ass.

Natasha's growths kick her ass, although L'Arachel's bases are a little better.

If by "kicks her ass," you mean has 10% better magic growth and 5% better HP growth but a worse growth rate in every other single possible stat, then yes. Totally kicks her ass, man.

Moulder's growths are all around more balanced than hers, but her bases win, and I will go in to Supports a tiny bit here, Moulder's Supports are the best in the series. L'Arachel cannot compare. Even with her dream Supports.

Moulder has high HP and has average defenses (but considering he's a magic user, average across all units is quite high for the class), but his resistance growth is terrible for a caster (not the worst thing in the world, but worth mentioning), his luck is pre-promote swordmaster low so he doesn't dodge very well, and the only guy with worse growth in magic strength is Saleh, who has better bases than Moulder.

L'Arachel x Eirika A might be slow but helps both of them out significantly (+3 attack, +3 defense, +15 accuracy [meh on that one], +15 crit). She can support either Joshua or Ephraim for another +2 attack and another +10 crit. It makes her a total offensive powerhouse, and makes Eirika a total offensive powerhouse to boot. Swordmaster on a horse with access to the most powerful sword in the game = very yes. Considering the "assumed supports" don't grant bonuses immediately needed for Eirika (Seth can still get up to B rank easily enough so it's not like he's out of the picture, Ephraim rejoins on Eirika's route later than L'Arachel does so she's got time on him to build up another rank or two).

Moulder does indeed have pretty awesome supports, but they don't OMG OUTCLASS L'Arachel's. She doesn't get the boost to avoid, sure, but she's got beautiful luck and pretty good speed so she's dodging when her supports aren't around for whatever reason much better than Moulder can when he's not near Vanessa (which is more likely than L'Arachel being away from her supports as fliers are often needed for specialized roles where your healer can't follow).

The reason I think arguing supports is useless is because there's pretty much always some way you can finagle them to make one unit totally better than another one. Actual unit stats are much more valuable because those are more set in stone.

They have a level lead on her, it's true. That's her biggest weakness, but considering she turns out so incredible, I'm willing to forgive her.

[DeSu]

YOU'RE MOULDER DOES NOT HAVE HAX DEF!! My moulder almost maxed Def.

[ZephyrD]

Thing about L'Arachel is, unlike someone like Ewan, she isn't hard to pick up and use. Her level may be low, but she'd be just as easy to use if she came 7 levels higher on account of healing and not fighting.

If anything, I'd consider being locked to staves an even greater weakness. Ewan could possibly snipe 10 kills a chapter and gain 10 levels, While L'Arachel needs you to heal all the time with her, and it just slows you down. Ewan is an loltrainee anyway. While there's no Ranks or anything, any character that makes you take longer to complete the game, without having any kind of offset in speeding it up later would be more likely to be considered bad than good imo.

While it's true that she'd be just as easy to use, since she'd be in the backlines and not fighting or moving around much, 7 levels is a potential 2-4 chapters which would likely place her on a more equal field.

However considering she's not getting hit and on the backlines, her mobility is less of a bonus (and honestly in FE8 Troubadours/MageKnight/Valks don't have much of a movement bonus compared to foot units) so it's hard to see why I'd bother using a low leveled healer when I've had two potential healers already who could be a higher, more reasonable level. (Or could have not leveled up all and be roughly the same level as L'Arachel and come ~10 chapters sooner.)

Edit: Considering the MageKnight/Valkyrie Stat caps are pretty bad, I wouldn't say that her "capping" them is remotely impressive, not to mention she doesn't do that until 20/20 which isn't even all that likely considering how short the game is.

Edited November 12, 2008 by ZephyrShakuraus

[sandmanccl]

There aren't a whole lot of units that cap any stats save for one or two, even at 20/20.

Not that it matters a whole lot because she'll be nuking everything long before she got to level cap.

Then again, so will Natasha and Moulder. *shrugs*

Focusing too much on any one aspect of any character will limit you, so feel free to continue despising her while I'm sitting with 100% support conversation completion for the game and enjoyed every playthrough.

[ZephyrD]

There aren't a whole lot of units that cap any stats save for one or two, even at 20/20.

Not that it matters a whole lot because she'll be nuking everything long before she got to level cap.

Then again, so will Natasha and Moulder. *shrugs*

Focusing too much on any one aspect of any character will limit you, so feel free to continue despising her while I'm sitting with 100% support conversation completion for the game and enjoyed every playthrough.

I've used every character in the game, I've solo'd the game with a not-so-great unit like Gilliam. I enjoy playing the game more than I enjoy discussing and debating it. FE8 was my favourite game before 10 came out. I've never bothered getting 100% support convos personally since I don't care that much.

Like I said, her caps are terrible. Only Moulder and Saleh fail to hit the same magic at 20/20. Her speed is only 3-4 points higher than any other magic user at best, but she can't wield and Elfire without losing 4 AS. Every other magic user has the ability to have a higher cap too. Capping a stat doesn't mean much if other classes can hit higher stats.

A character that has caps of 20 and hits every cap isn't better than a character capable of hitting 30 in a stat and averaging 25.

Nino has a high chance to cap her stats, comes at level 5 a bit further than half way through the game, isn't very hard to raise, but it doesn't make her good.

Assuming that I despise something and that I don't enjoy is a rather naive and uncalled for assumption, though I suppose you could be calling me an unlikable cunt or something, you're not very good at being polite when people are debating with you.

[Destiny Hero]

If Moldy just had a decent name I'd use him. But in my Support/Triangle Attack abuse run, I'm using him. But, the name ;-;

[Florete]

I really don't understand how caps make a bit of difference when most units aren't hitting them anyway.

[sandmanccl]

I've used every character in the game, I've solo'd the game with a not-so-great unit like Gilliam. I enjoy playing the game more than I enjoy discussing and debating it. FE8 was my favourite game before 10 came out. I've never bothered getting 100% support convos personally since I don't care that much.

Like I said, her caps are terrible. Only Moulder and Saleh fail to hit the same magic at 20/20. Her speed is only 3-4 points higher than any other magic user at best, but she can't wield and Elfire without losing 4 AS. Every other magic user has the ability to have a higher cap too. Capping a stat doesn't mean much if other classes can hit higher stats.

A character that has caps of 20 and hits every cap isn't better than a character capable of hitting 30 in a stat and averaging 25.

Nino has a high chance to cap her stats, comes at level 5 a bit further than half way through the game, isn't very hard to raise, but it doesn't make her good.

Assuming that I despise something and that I don't enjoy is a rather naive and uncalled for assumption, though I suppose you could be calling me an unlikable cunt or something, you're not very good at being polite when people are debating with you.

If people are stupid dicks, I'm going to call them a stupid dick. If they are unlikable cunts, I'm going to call them unlikable cunts.

If you don't want people calling you names, don't live up to the name they're calling you. It's a pretty simple concept. People can call me an unlikable asshole all they want and I won't get offended, because I realize it's the truth.

I'm going to go a step further and say you're a stupid dick. You're telling people who otherwise enjoy a perfectly acceptable unit that she's not worth using ever. You don't have to say something in those words for it to be implied by your arguments. I realize I'm as guilty as this as anyone, which is why I no longer say "THIS UNIT SUCKS BAWWWWWWWWWWW", but simply that I prefer others because I think they have downsides that don't fit in to my ideals of both functionality and fun.

If you don't think you're a stupid dick, then you better back it up with something because I've got reason to believe that you are, in fact, a stupid dick.

[lordnergal]

His name reminds me of Mouldy food.

[Swordsalmon]

If people are stupid dicks, I'm going to call them a stupid dick. If they are unlikable cunts, I'm going to call them unlikable cunts.

If you don't want people calling you names, don't live up to the name they're calling you. It's a pretty simple concept. People can call me an unlikable asshole all they want and I won't get offended, because I realize it's the truth.

I'm going to go a step further and say you're a stupid dick. You're telling people who otherwise enjoy a perfectly acceptable unit that she's not worth using ever. You don't have to say something in those words for it to be implied by your arguments. I realize I'm as guilty as this as anyone, which is why I no longer say "THIS UNIT SUCKS BAWWWWWWWWWWW", but simply that I prefer others because I think they have downsides that don't fit in to my ideals of both functionality and fun.

If you don't think you're a stupid dick, then you better back it up with something because I've got reason to believe that you are, in fact, a stupid dick.

Learn to respect people, please. You're obviously breaking the rules. Read them again.

Also, we're stating and proving that Character X is good/bad. Many of us use the characters that are terrible. I use losers like Thomas, Ronan, and Karla, though they all are completely awful. What you are doing is ignoring when we show the obvious and using ad hominin attacks.

[sandmanccl]

You already know what I think of you, moron.

I refuse to give "respect" to people that treat everyone else as inferior. Get that through your thick skull.

And before your dumb ass goes "hurr hurr ur being a hippo crit", I'd be the first one in a thread where you're expressing genuine concern about a real life issue to 1) tell the idiots to back off (because real feelings on the internet just get you flamed), and 2) to offer a hand of friendship to discuss your problem and try to help you see things in a new light that could help bring you happiness.

And yes, I have done that here, multiple times. I don't do it in public because the public is full of, well, assholes that would demean everything I was trying to accomplish, but I have sent a number of private messages to people who aren't stupid pricks.

Your "obvious" is that she joins at a low level and the others will likely pass her up by then. I've stated that doesn't matter a whole lot to me because it doesn't prove she's "the worse unit" because she still fulfills a role and turns into a great unit. It proves the others have a level advantage over here, which matters even less in a game where, at any given time, you can go gain all the extra experience you could ever possibly want to get.

[Swordsalmon]

You already know what I think of you, moron.

I refuse to give "respect" to people that treat everyone else as inferior. Get that through your thick skull.

And before your dumb ass goes "hurr hurr ur being a hippo crit", I'd be the first one in a thread where you're expressing genuine concern about a real life issue to 1) tell the idiots to back off (because real feelings on the internet just get you flamed), and 2) to offer a hand of friendship to discuss your problem and try to help you see things in a new light that could help bring you happiness.

And yes, I have done that here, multiple times. I don't do it in public because the public is full of, well, assholes that would demean everything I was trying to accomplish, but I have sent a number of private messages to people who aren't stupid pricks.

Your "obvious" is that she joins at a low level and the others will likely pass her up by then. I've stated that doesn't matter a whole lot to me because it doesn't prove she's "the worse unit" because she still fulfills a role and turns into a great unit. It proves the others have a level advantage over here, which matters even less in a game where, at any given time, you can go gain all the extra experience you could ever possibly want to get.

I realize that already. However, you will not insult the other members.

Well, we try to prove that other characters are inferior. You're the one insulting the person, not the character. If someone backs up why Character X is back, you should try to counter with backing up why Character X is good, not attacking the person you are debating with.

Regardless of communication, the opponents should be respected as much as possible. I personally try to respect my opponents, and expect them to not flame or anything. This is just a debate, not the end of the world.

So you're the public? ;)

If other characters are beating L'Arachel at join, she isn't as good. If they are beating her later on, she isn't as good. It's pretty simple. Any character can be good, but that still doesn't make them good with the superior characters, so to speak. And abuse isn't usually considered in a debate.

[Defeatist Elitist]

You already know what I think of you, moron.

I refuse to give "respect" to people that treat everyone else as inferior. Get that through your thick skull.

And before your dumb ass goes "hurr hurr ur being a hippo crit", I'd be the first one in a thread where you're expressing genuine concern about a real life issue to 1) tell the idiots to back off (because real feelings on the internet just get you flamed), and 2) to offer a hand of friendship to discuss your problem and try to help you see things in a new light that could help bring you happiness.

And yes, I have done that here, multiple times. I don't do it in public because the public is full of, well, assholes that would demean everything I was trying to accomplish, but I have sent a number of private messages to people who aren't stupid pricks.

Your "obvious" is that she joins at a low level and the others will likely pass her up by then. I've stated that doesn't matter a whole lot to me because it doesn't prove she's "the worse unit" because she still fulfills a role and turns into a great unit. It proves the others have a level advantage over here, which matters even less in a game where, at any given time, you can go gain all the extra experience you could ever possibly want to get.

You are trolling now, right? Or do you read selectively? If you are trolling, don't bother, most of us have boundless patience, we're not going to snap on you anytime soon.

[DeSu]

Oiy. Sandman. You had my respect at one point. Try and get it again. Read the debate topic in the General FE forum. Maybe you'll see what we debate about and learn some self control. The debator-nondebator war ended years ago. Don't go calling people sub-human names. It's not nice.

On topic: Moulder only seems to be good in skill and Def. My Moulder never missed, barely got hurt, and crit's often. That's all a unit should need.

@destinyhero: MOULDER IS THE BOULDER! Except he doesn't have conflicted feelings.

[Florete]

Outright flaming is NOT good, Sandman, even if you believe they deserve it.

On L'Arachel, I don't see what makes her a bad unit other than being worse than two others. She comes halfway through the game, has pretty good bases and growths, and great supports. Her level hardly means anything because she draws from her own experience pool, so raising her isn't a problem.