10 Best Non-Personal Skills in Fates Game-play?

[Aggro Incarnate]

Personal Skills are out of the discussion.

DLC-skills, so Warp, Galeforce and such does not apply.

This list assumes utility in-game, without explicit use (grinding and otherwise) of DLCs or castle-bonuses.

I'm intentionally keeping standard of 'best' very vague since I don't want a fixed gameplay style in mind, and intend to be more of a reflection of individual playthroughs more than an objective tiering of how good skills are. In this sense perhaps the title should be more appropriately called "10 Skills I found most useful in when I played Fates". It might seem really picky and arbitrary that I have the above restrictions while trying to keep the discussion not an objective tiering: this is DLC/castle-bonuses/grinding is not something that everyone or all routes in the game have available when they play the game, and I would like to limit discussions to skills accessible to more than one unit.

Some things to keep in mind though:

- My own list is going to be fairly Conquest-centric, since this is the route I've played the most and where I feel that class skills really make a difference. (That said, it's not drafted with only Conquest in mind) I'm not particularly assuming any efficiency constraints, though I do stand by the obvious general principles it is better to kill enemies and complete the chapter faster and more reliably than otherwise; how much a particular aspect of this overweighs others, however, is not something that I want to set in stone. That said, that doesn't mean yours have to be; feel free to reflect more on your experiences from other routes that you've played.

- I factor in both the availability and the potency/applicability of the skill. As a result Lv. 15 promoted skills, or skills in class-lines I just find less appealing for units, either native and re-classed, are not going to feature high in my list. That said, availability isn't the only contributing factor; If I judge one unit having a particular skill makes that unit just considerably better in combat/utility, gives him/her a unique niche, and be significantly game-changing for a non-negligible significant portion of the game, it will feature high in this list.

- I don't think I have a particularly high-level style of play at all, nor am I assuming low turn counts as the sole or even only metric of usefulness (Again this is only because this isn't an objective tier list but more of a subjective reflection leading to discussion: that said, perhaps this can culminate in some inter-subjective common understanding of how good certain class skills are), but my list (and to an extent this whole discussion) was drawn from perspective of playing the higher difficulty settings (for me Lunatic Classic) in mind, simply because higher difficulties require more strategic play, and where skills 'really matter'.

I'm not sure whether my take on this functions better as a reflection of how good skills are than of how I personally play the game, but as Felicia says, "Here goes nothing!"

1. Shelter

Lv. 10 unpromoted skill for Cavalier class lines. There's no doubt about the utility of Rescuing, given its ability to protect units from out in the open, and perhaps this is even better in Fates where being Paired-Up gives bonuses to stats instead of penalties in the 3DS FE games, but I had to think for a bit about whether I wanted to list this as the No. 1 skill.

What tipped the scales for me personally was how it works in conjunction with the Pair-Up system in the 3DS Fire Emblem titles: while Pair-Ups are facilitated by having the support unit go behind the lead unit while the lead unit stays intact, Shelter (i.e. Rescue) works by having the support unit being pulled into the position of the lead unit. Given that it is the lead unit in a Pair-Up that performs an action, in conjunction with the Transfer feature which allows one to 'trade' support units and the Switch feature which allows this newly-traded support unit to act as the lead unit, all in the same turn, this allows one to use a unit multiple times within a single turn given proper positioning, the most important application being allowing Azura to sing multiple times in a single turn, which has numerous applications. (It is also why I end up having Silas and Azura almost always paired in Conquest, which admittedly is what I find to be one of the most useful pairing gameplay-wise for both parties and their children) This is extremely useful to the verge of being broken, and some of the strategies I've employed in the higher difficulty settings would be downright impossible without this skill, which would make the late-game much more difficult.

Cavaliers are extremely relevant to this game even if their combat falls off because Shelter also makes them a utility unit. It almost makes me glad that Canto isn't in Fates, since that would have made Cavaliers absolutely broken given their already good combat potential and high movement, and the relatively sparing use of enemy Beast Killers.

*Admittedly, the usefulness of Shelter probably depends on the difficult setting and the route one plays. I guess it's kind of a Conquest bias showing here, but personally I just found it THAT useful when I played Fates. This will sort of be a recurring theme of my list, however, so bear with me :)

2. Locktouch

Base skill for the Outlaw and Ninja class lines. This gives you weapons (Armourslayer, Dragonstone+, etc.), staves (Rescue, Silence), stat-boosting items, and lots of gold. Considering how (# of chest keys) < (# of chests) to a fairly large margin, in Conquest in particular, and the fact that chest keys disappear from the inventory/convoy after the end of the chapter it has been obtained in Fates, I say that Locktouch contributes significantly to the game by a large margin. Not straightforwardly awesome in terms of combat or the shenanigans you pull off in the map itself, but I imagine that the game would be a lot more difficult without it.

3. Inspiring Song

Songstress Lv. 25 10 skill, Azura only. +3 to Speed/Skill/Luck to a single unit may not sound that impressive, but the fact that this is tied to Azura's refreshing is what I think makes it so good (since Azura is best used for refreshing, not singing, unlike other skills requiring other units to perform the action which could have potentially be used in combat, especially in a Player-Phase centered game such as Conquest), as in many case you Sing to units you want your units to use again for Tanking/Attacking purposes. In particular, Speed is useful both offensively (since it allows you to double) and defensively (since it prevents you from getting doubled, and give small bonuses to Avoid), and this makes Inspiring Song one of Azura's best skills, and a big part of what makes Azura one of the series' best refreshers.

Admittedly this is a cheat since it goes against the reason I'm restricting the discussion to class skills, but I'd appreciate it if you don't dwell too much on that haha...

4. Poison Strike

Lv. 10 unpromoted skill for the Ninja class line. Ninjas are around in all 3 routes. Flat-out 20% HP reduction from enemies is outright amazing. Even if it cannot kill, the fact that it is tied with the Ninja class that uses shurikens, which debuffs a unit's stats, from 1-2 range without penalty, allows them to soften units for the other units to kill. Not only is it useful for killing enemies easier, it is also useful for distributing EXP, which is helpful in all 3 routes in keeping many units up to par (given that low-manning is arguably not as preferable in some version of Fates given its altered EXP-gain formula), but especially in the rather unbalanced route that is Revelation.

Perhaps to an extent I might be conflating the usefulness of Ninjas in general with the skill itself (as one may also say for Inspiring Song with Azura the Songstress for the above), but all these other factors contribute quite centrally to how useful these skills are so I don't find that to be a problem.

5. Elbow Room

Base skill for the Cavalier class line. Honestly there aren't a lot of terrain in this game, and the nature of the RNG makes their Avoid bonus make terrain not as relevant as the previous 2RN FE games. (I feel like unit placement almost replaces terrain in the 3DS FE games, due to the nature of support bonuses in the Dual System / Pair Up in the 3DS titles) Besides, there is usually a tile without terrain from which one may attack enemy units, so practically speaking this skill is active almost all the time. Free +3 damage (and correspondingly +1~2 in the Dual Strikes in the supporting role) is really sweet, and the fact that it's the base skill for Cavaliers make the class line extremely useful, and also allowing units to reclass into the Cavalier line (temporarily or permanently) extremely relevant to the game. Besides Peri, Effie, Silas and Xander are all solid units in the routes they feature in, and Elbow Room, on top of Shelter, makes them even better, not to mention that the attractiveness of the Cav line itself apart from these skills conversely make these skills more attractive to get burning the Heart seals.

6. Lunge

Lv. 10 unpromoted skill for the Wyvern Rider class line. Camilla comes with this skill at base, and Beruka needs only 1 level to learn it. Given the importance of unit positioning in Fire Emblem games in general, which is even further augmented by how Hit rates, Dual Strikes and Auras are affected by adjacent units, I'd consider this skill fairly useful. In a sense this skill can even function as an additional movement feature as well. This skill allows you to kill units in Player Phase that one wouldn't have been otherwise, or place units in a way that better ensures survival. Amazing utility all around. Helps as early as Ch. 10 in Conquest. The fact that it is also relevant in Birthright due to the existence of Scarlet is also a plus.

7. Heartseeker

Base skill for the Dark Mage class line, so Nyx, Odin and Leo comes with it, as well as some of the 2nd gen. -20 Avoid makes Dark mages and their promotions relevant as utility units as well; the fact that it targets an enemy's avoid instead a player unit's hit rates makes it useful for units other than the ones who have it, and as such is surprisingly useful in boss kills or rather tricky situations where one finds oneself in a bit of tight bind. The skill is especially helpful if one is playing without Castle bonuses (so no Dual weapons except for the Dual Club and maybe the Calamity Gate in Conquest) - incidently this is what I've been assuming in drafting my take on the top 10 class kills. Also it makes Nosferatu relevant even with its nerfs and the relatively low Skill stat the class has, and -20 avoid makes an even bigger difference in Fates with its different RN system.

8. Savage Blow

Lv. 5 promoted skill for Malig Knights. Basically a better version of Poison Strike in its effect, but comes later in the game in again a niche class line. I put it lower than Poison strike simply because it comes early and I found Ninjas and shuriken/knives to be just THAT good. To be fair though, the Wyvern line just has amazing skills all around, though some better than others; Strength +2, Lunge, Savage Blow, Trample, Rally Defense, Swordbreaker, and really highlights the niche of the class as capable combat units with ton of utility as well, and Savage Blow is indeed one of the better skills in the roster, I find. It also makes Camilla quite broken, though I'm not complaining about that when I'm playing Conquest Lunatic.

9. Rally Speed

Lv. 5 promoted skill for Falcon Knights. With proper positioning, you get flat-out +4 Speed on all your combat units. It makes Shigure and perhaps a Selena re-classed into a Sky Knight surprisingly relevant (though in the latter case, it somewhat hampers with her growths and to an extent combat potential). Other rallies are useful as well, but speed is just that good (See my comments on Inspiring Song above). It is much more useful in Conquest (and perhaps wouldn't feature on this list if I had in mind other routes with greater emphasis) as Conquest as the more difficult route features units with relatively better bulk and damage output per strike, but with relatively lacking speed.

10. Darting Blow

Base skill for the Sky Knight class. +5 Speed in the Player Phase allows non-doubling units to double without having to pair or rally them up. This is largely due to speed. I tried reclassing certain units in my latest Conquest Lunatic no-online/DLC 1st-gen only (no child-paralogues) run and certain units (esp. Silas) a lot more viable in the late-game; I think the Peg line may be worth considering dipping into temporarily just for this skill alone.

Honourable Mention

- Movement +1: More movement is always relevant, and not just in efficiency runs; it generally helps with survivability and allows for greater strategic flexibility. This is probably my no. 11. if I can add onto it.

- Certain Blow: The fact of the matter is that it negates any sort of Weapon Triangle Disadvantage, which is crazy. Makes Snipers even better, and probably THE reason why it is difficult for ME to let go of Sniper Mozu at the expense of Paladin Jakob, though this is more of how my game-play style suits the utility of these units rather than an objective assessment of their relative utility. (Also because I don't/can't particularly engage in LTCs) I might feature it as high as no. 12 for just how ridiculous its effect is, despite it being in a promoted bow-locked class. Admittedly there's a lot of bias in this, and a lot of this may be only because because I pair Sniper Mozu with Niles all the time so both share the incredibly broken skills that the Sniper class has...

- Shurikenbreaker: Useful due to how much easier it makes Conquest Ch. 25 and perhaps the Endgame (w/o Rescue cheese), though this only features on Niles as a Bow Knight after Lv. 15 promoted. Maybe my no. 13?

- Replicate: Essentially gives you an extra unit which is extremely powerful. It is however hindered by availability, being a Lv. 15 promoted skill for Mechanists, which is only relevant in the last few chapters of the game. If Felicia/Jakob were to reclass into the Ninja-line however , though this is quite a gimmicky.

- Pass: Bypassing enemies allows one to do all sorts of crazy shenanigans. Sadly it is a Lv. 15 promoted skill for Adventurers, which means it comes too late for most units (by that I mean Niles and maybe Shura if not replaced by Boots), and I find Niles to be better as a Bow Knight than Adventurer due to Movement and Shurikenbreaker, even if the Shining Bow and staff utility helps in its own way. It is helpful immensely for Ch. 25 and beyond for Conquest though.

- Quick Draw: +4 damage on Player phase makes snipers extremely powerful. Sadly not everyone wants to go through Sniper.

- Live to Serve: Makes the first servant extremely relevant, especially Felicia, and to some extent Flora as well. Sadly its utility are rather limited to these units and some 2nd gen

- Nobility: Makes the Avatar, the character with the highest availability, almost always relevant with little spoonfeeding.

- Draconic Hex: -4 Debuff in every stat is quite impressive. Too bad that ideally you want things dead, not debuffed, on Player Phase, though it is good for tanking purposes. Also limited to classes that can access Nohr Noble, so rather low availability in that regard.

- Inspiration: +2 Damage dealt, -2 Damage taken is pretty neat. Though again, it comes pretty late in the game. I probably like the Sisters personal skills a lot better in this regard (Lily's Poise, Rose's Thorns, Quiet Strength, Rallying Cry), only that they've been ignored since I'm limiting the discussion to non-personal skills. TBF I'm not so sure about this. Maybe a rally skill, a breaker skill, Voice of Peace, Wary Fighter, or even Demoiselle/Gentilhomme may be better than this.

I haven't thought too hard about the rigorous justification for the precise ordering (for instance I keep wavering between 6th and 7th), but the numbering does seem vaguely reflect how useful I found these skills to be in these runs in retrospect. Also, just because this is going to be more of a subjective recollection of one's own playthrough rather than an objective tier list doesn't mean one can disagree with others, so feel free to disagree with me, and more importantly tell me why :)

I'd be interested to hear your takes as well; what did you find to be your top-10 class skills for Fates game-play?

TL:DR - Pick your top-10 class skills in Fates in terms of its in-game utility, and defend it :)

Edited July 11, 2016 by Aggro Incarnate

[Shadow Mir]

Erm, Inspiring Song is learned at level 10. My own list will come later.

[Aggro Incarnate]

Erm, Inspiring Song is learned at level 10. My own list will come later.

Oh right, I think I got the levels confused with Voice of Peace. I will edit that.

[Shadow Mir]

Looking at your write-up for Lunge, I see an incomplete sentence. What exactly were you intending on saying in that sentence?

[Aggro Incarnate]

Looking at your write-up for Lunge, I see an incomplete sentence. What exactly were you intending on saying in that sentence?

That should be there now. This having turned into a rather long write-up, I haven't been exactly writing in order, and as a result might have skipped a sentence or two.

[UNLEASH IT]

Elbow Room, Quick Draw, Trample, Shelter and Defender are the best skills in my opinion. Proc skills aren't as good as they used to be due skill stats being lower than they were in Awakening.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Good list! I generally agree with most of your comments. I'm not sure how I'd order them specifically but I have few complaints.

Really, the only one that jumps out that I disagree with is Poison Strike. It's useless if you one-round an enemy, and useless if you soften them up enough that the next blow was going to kill anyway, and those are usually the case. If it activated on the enemy phase to punish those who attack you and can't be countered that would be one thing (like Grisly Wound) but as is I don't see much utility here. It compares poorly to the better Seal skills (Defence and Speed, as well as Draconic Hex) for that reason.

Trample and the -faire skills are generically good if we're considering L15 skills, though I agree that most are too late to figure in a list like this. Replicate and Inspiration may well be better anyway (espeically Inspiration since Jakob/Felicia get it pretty easily).

[Shadow Mir]

The only one that stands out that I'd disagree with is Savage Blow - it's useless unless you have your unit attack from a position where there are multiple enemy units within two squares of you, and that's generally a questionable move to begin with.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Roflolxp54]

Really, the only one that jumps out that I disagree with is Poison Strike. It's useless if you one-round an enemy, and useless if you soften them up enough that the next blow was going to kill anyway, and those are usually the case. If it activated on the enemy phase to punish those who attack you and can't be countered that would be one thing (like Grisly Wound) but as is I don't see much utility here. It compares poorly to the better Seal skills (Defence and Speed, as well as Draconic Hex) for that reason.

Poison Strike is mainly good if the user's weapon can't damage or hit the enemy (ninjas' STR/MAG isn't particularly outstanding). It's free damage for these sort of situations assuming the Poison Strike user survives that round of combat. Poison Strike (as well as Grisly Wound, etc.) even works if the user has 0% Hit rate against the target.

[Renall]

The only one that stands out that I'd disagree with is Savage Blow - it's useless unless you have your unit attack from a position where there are multiple enemy units within two squares of you, and that's generally a questionable move to begin with.

Camilla can get away with it at times by virtue of being Camilla. I don't think it's very likely, however, that anyone but Camilla is picking up Savage Blow, so I'd find it hard to rate as a top skill. Beruka/Scarlet could dip it, but probably wouldn't do so until Trample is available; Xander would have to spend 4 levels in the lategame without Siegfried to get Savage/Trample, which he isn't probably going to do (and if he does he wants Trample not Savage Blow since he fights much more on the EP). Maybe Percy depending on shenanigans (Offspring Seal to MK lv5+, Heart Seal to WL, or vice-versa and level up once).

At least with Poison Strike you always have Kaze, might go Ninja Talent, will have Saizo/Kagero on BR/RV, and could potentially have Laslow with a Heart Seal.

[joshcja]

(Ngl the best user of savage blow are probably elise/1st servants, heartseeker+lunge+demo+savage+inspiration makes for savage sweeps and fat EP transitions)

For general in game use, mostly casual play, I'll be clumping 1st tier skills together unless one is irrelevant because the invest needed to take both is minimal.

1: Vantage: Consume the map with Corin (all paths) Ryoma (Br) or Ophelia/Odin/Leo (Cq). Proper setup with this can make even lunatic/gen 1/base cart CQ absolutely brainless

2: Cav bases (shelter+elbow room): Individually they're not amazing but dipping into cav/paladin for for +3 damage and shelter is huge utility.

3: DM bases (Heartseeker+mal): Very few first gen units are "perfect" most have 1-2 flaws and skill is one of the more common failings for the games high end combat units. Hit aura good. Mal aura may seem counter intuitive but it's a free 2-12 damage generating a similar effect to savage blow.

4: Demoiselle/Gentilhomme: Unsung heroes of the early game for any casual playthrough useful forever, super early access.

5: Shurikenbreaker: Have fun on Cq lunatic without this.

7: Adventurer (locktouch/move+1): loot and free boots.

8: The entire dracoknight tree: There is nothing but value here, any unit that can splash draco will splash draco. Often repeatedly

9:Sol: There is really no reason not to splash for this, makes EP so much more tolerable on non vantage/xander units and it shares class tree's with two of the best classes in the game (bow knight/berserker).

10: Rally Str(br)/Mag(cq): You are not intended to have these early to midgame in the respective versions, these generate a lot of relevant ohko's and are slightly better suited to EP than rally speed imo.

Edited July 12, 2016 by joshcja

[Aggro Incarnate]

After hearing all of your comments, I'm realising that a lot of this is indeed reflective of my playstyle.

- My Birthright playstyle tends to be Enemy-Phase focused (all hail the Guard Naginata), and Conquest Player-Phase focused (basically damn Seal Defense). I'll always go for maximum deployment because of the greater degrees of freedom it gives in a pinch, and often I feel that I need it the way I play it. (Tackling Takumi's Wall for instance, where I take up one Player Phase to destroy half of all enemy units there) The only Pair-Up Only Fodder I use is Charlotte. Everyone else has some kind of combat/utility prowess, and almost all of them I try to keep around a similar level range.

- I tend to play Conquest without assuming Rescue 1Turn/2Turn-strats; as a result my funding is a bit more limited in that respect. (+ I'm probably secretly a masochist and love getting my rear kicked by the Endgame) One of the biggest issues I've had without playing with Child Paralogues was funding Reclassing Seals, and admittedly I'm still not sure what a good way of distributing funding is.

- I take Hit Rates rather seriously in Fates, and this is a rather serious limiting factor for me. 90% is a personal reliability threshold, 85% is kind of a "Meh I'll do if I must", and will never go for sub-80% unless I have a back-up plan or I have no other choice. For Enemy Hit Rates, more than 20% means I'm not going to evade. And I'm not risking Criticals at all unless there's a big trade-off.

- I'm a scrub that'll try to go for 20/20, especially in the recent games where stats and growth rates are quite high, and usually this works out in Conquest quite well even without Child Parlaogues (most units will get there or very close) if one chooses to rout most of them. It's weird how this is actually more difficult in Birthright due to enemy levels being static and low in the midgame until Ch. 23. That said, I've realised recently that attempting 20/20 for healers in Lunatic was a BIG mistake and is probably not worth it...

Really, the only one that jumps out that I disagree with is Poison Strike. It's useless if you one-round an enemy, and useless if you soften them up enough that the next blow was going to kill anyway, and those are usually the case. If it activated on the enemy phase to punish those who attack you and can't be countered that would be one thing (like Grisly Wound) but as is I don't see much utility here. It compares poorly to the better Seal skills (Defence and Speed, as well as Draconic Hex) for that reason.

A lot of Poison Strike's utility comes from dealing with units with high stats, especially bulk, and the fact that it's tied to Shuriken users that in addition debuff a unit's stats. Though the killing blow for me was that it activates post-battle even if the attack doesn't hit or does 0 damage; it always allows Ninjas to do SOMETHING for the team even if it cannot ORKO enemies and gain EXP for itself, so that the lesser units can pinch in and do the job themselves, perhaps with the help of a dual strike, and so also helping with EXP distribution (which may not be a big selling point in efficiency runs, but a scrub like me find it very useful :)) See also comment below for Savage Blow about enemy placement and AI; a similar reasoning sort of applies.

The only one that stands out that I'd disagree with is Savage Blow - it's useless unless you have your unit attack from a position where there are multiple enemy units within two squares of you, and that's generally a questionable move to begin with.

I find that Savage Blow is one of those skills that are useful even if it's just one unit that has this skill. Due to the nature of enemy placement and AI acting together as a group (like sometimes 6-12 of them move collectively; think Faceless in Ch. 21, Reinforcements in Ch. 22, Enemies on the Fort in Ch. 23, the last two batches of Flier-reinforcements in Ch. 24, the left chamber in Ch. 26, Endgame) in higher difficulties in Conquest, I often find myself eliminating a group of enemies in a single player phase. Having Savage Blow in this process makes this considerably easier and reliable, giving more leeway for RNs, spreading EXP, and more favourable unit placement in preparation for the next turn. (These kind of strats are surprisingly reliable due to how Dual Strikes and abiding by Weapon Triangle boost Hit Rates considerably, though it may be too slow for some tastes, and that it requires a team with many combat-proficient units)

It also helps that the class-line that gets it already has Lunge and high-movement, which makes the skill a lot more applicable, and the Wyvern line has a wealth of amazing skills and so is a strong contender for re-classing units who have it available, and in that sense isn't so unattractive availability-wise either, even if Malig-Knights falter a bit in terms of stats/growths.

1: Vantage: Consume the map with Corin (all paths) Ryoma (Br) or Ophelia/Odin/Leo (Cq). Proper setup with this can make even lunatic/gen 1/base cart CQ absolutely brainless

3: DM bases (Heartseeker+mal): Very few first gen units are "perfect" most have 1-2 flaws and skill is one of the more common failings for the games high end combat units. Hit aura good. Mal aura may seem counter intuitive but it's a free 2-12 damage generating a similar effect to savage blow.

4: Demoiselle/Gentilhomme: Unsung heroes of the early game for any casual playthrough useful forever, super early access.

9:Sol: There is really no reason not to splash for this, makes EP so much more tolerable on non vantage/xander units and it shares class tree's with two of the best classes in the game (bow knight/berserker).

10: Rally Str(br)/Mag(cq): You are not intended to have these early to midgame in the respective versions, these generate a lot of relevant ohko's and are slightly better suited to EP than rally speed imo.

Vantage is one of those skills that I can understand being extremely useful in paper but find very difficult to use in practice myself. Probably because I haven't quite figured out 'how' to use it effectively myself :(

I've been trying to gauge between the different Rally skills and how good they are. My rationale for putting Rally Str/Mag behind Rally Spd was that I doubted that one could meet 1HKO benchmarks with those rallies, but if otherwise I may reconsider. I can see the Rally Str coming through with early promotion or Felicia, though I feel that having the Avatar go for Diviner secondary base or Nyx/Niles pairing for Rally Mag requires a rather specific build in Conquest, which sounds interesting on paper but can't quite gauge myself how game-changing that is.

Similarly I'm yet unsure about how I'll gauge between the Sister auras, Demoiselle/Gentilhomme and Inspiration. Admittedly Demoiselle/Gentilhomme helps tremendously in the early game, and considering the relative lack of Heart Seals I might rank this higher now compared to Inspiration just because of availability.

Also, while generally I don't 'trust' procs in this game, I can see that Sol features rather differently; it more or less relies on the expectation that it'll probably trigger once in a while, so perhaps I can be a bit more liberal about keeping a unit in a certain high-risk, high-reward positioning or action. Admittedly Sol has been very helpful in Birthright for me, though it's probably because I relied a lot more on EP (basically Birthright for me was Tank everything with Guard Naginata Emblem, though for everyone else it seems to be Ryoma Solo) compared to Conquest. If one's playstyle is more EP-centric than Sol is definitely going to be really good, I agree.

Also really good point about Malefic Aura increasing your Magic Damage output; even if I don't use a lot of mages per-say (out of Nyx, Odin, Leo; Ophelia for 2nd gen), there's units like the Avatar, Camilla, Elise, Felicia, Niles (and Nina and Forrest in 2nd gen) who are capable of doing considerable magic damage without being in the Dark-Mage class line, and Malefic Aura stacking extra chip damage may help considerably now that I think about it.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Aggro Incarnate

[joshcja]

Vantage is one of those skills that I can understand being extremely useful in paper but find very difficult to use in practice myself. Probably because I haven't quite figured out 'how' to use it effectively myself :(

It's just super strong EP option that works well on strong PP units vantage+damage stack or vantage nos/sol are just a huge cheese.

I've been trying to gauge between the different Rally skills and how good they are. My rationale for putting Rally Str/Mag behind Rally Spd was that I doubted that one could meet 1HKO benchmarks with those rallies, but if otherwise I may reconsider. I can see the Rally Str coming through with early promotion or Felicia, though I feel that having the Avatar go for Diviner secondary base or Nyx/Niles pairing for Rally Mag requires a rather specific build in Conquest, which sounds interesting on paper but can't quite gauge myself how game-changing that is.

Rally str/mag is just the last piece needed to do heavy ORKO stacking in the version lacking an inherent user and is intentionally set up to be lategame/require completely non-intuitive builds to abuse. Bypassing this just breaks everything.

I'm going to intentional ignore Ophelia here and assume you want to play CQ not reenact the climax of million dollar baby. Going all in on rally mag with nina/corin with a splash of zerk/bow/xander is not something conquest is designed to handle. examples: shurikenbreaker+gate forrest on ch 25 ignores the entire map and rally mag gives him ohko ranges, mag+2 just violates the early game which is made for.... odins damage, nostanking allows for heavy EP abuse and quick building of 3rd tier statues to stack with rally (yes you can violate the mag cap nogrind) and it just snowballs into way more damage than CQ's res can handle. Plus you still get to use the games strong phys/utility freebies.

For Br berserker!Corrin + Lod + Faire + rally str gives ryoma the damage needed to flat ohko things at 1-2 range, it also boosts 1-2 sol and the games vantagespam in general while fat build hayato + felecia!rhajat (sol pony tome is a nice pseudo nos) manages the mage side admirably letting you focus the last teamsltsentirely on movement, its unessecary given how rolly BR is but it's still a really facerolly build that removes the main weaknesses of the BR cast. Also #zerker Shiro.

That may just be me playing sorczerk emblem though.

Similarly I'm yet unsure about how I'll gauge between the Sister auras, Demoiselle/Gentilhomme and Inspiration. Admittedly Demoiselle/Gentilhomme helps tremendously in the early game, and considering the relative lack of Heart Seals I might rank this higher now compared to Inspiration just because of availability.

I rate the flower aura's highly enough that I dip Elise into wyvern/magik from level 10-20/13 for frontline aura botting they're just the strongest combat personals in the game, the hoshido sisters are about on par with the basic troub aura's but they're still good.

Also, while generally I don't 'trust' procs in this game, I can see that Sol features rather differently; it more or less relies on the expectation that it'll probably trigger once in a while, so perhaps I can be a bit more liberal about keeping a unit in a certain high-risk, high-reward positioning or action. Admittedly Sol has been very helpful in Birthright for me, though it's probably because I relied a lot more on EP (basically Birthright for me was Tank everything with Guard Naginata Emblem, though for everyone else it seems to be Ryoma Solo) compared to Conquest. If one's playstyle is more EP-centric than Sol is definitely going to be really good, I agree.

It's mostly useful on high skill reasonably bulky units as a way to add on an extra 10-40 Hp midgame/heavy EP tank lategame, the big conquest abusers are Ninja tree- Laslow/Soliel (allows aggressive play with 1-2 range replicate users) and Zerk- Percy/Arthur/Beruka (70 hp cap, huge skill cap, fat def, breakers, damage hose status)

Also really good point about Malefic Aura increasing your Magic Damage output; even if I don't use a lot of mages per-say (out of Nyx, Odin, Leo; Ophelia for 2nd gen), there's units like the Avatar, Camilla, Elise, Felicia, Niles (and Nina and Forrest in 2nd gen) who are capable of doing considerable magic damage without being in the Dark-Mage class line, and Malefic Aura stacking extra chip damage may help considerably now that I think about it.

You should try out mage CQ, it's stupid. But yeah a +2 damage aura is honestly just value any time any where.

Edited July 13, 2016 by joshcja

[maninbluejumpsuit]

Nohrian trust- borderline broken but, but i love the new benefits to pairups it brings

Hoshidan unity, aka Rightful king- makes the fun procs happen more

Vantage- I shouldn't have to explain this one

Grisly wound- HP shredding from just fighting. Doesn't matter if attacking, or attacked. I love spear master Oboro!Selkie with guard naginata for this.

Death blow- again borders on OP, but it does make things like witch Elise!Ophilia with excalibur/mijolnir/high level forged thunder hilarious to see in action.

Replicate- I feel dirty using this. Especially on warping witch assassins

Dragon fang- Favorite offensive trigger next to aether, and replaces luna's former role as the 2nd offensive trigger to have after astra/aether from awakening because of its reliable damage and trigger rate

Damage reduction aura skills- Sakura with demoselle + inspiration. All day.

Edited July 12, 2016 by maninbluejumpsuit

[Shadow Mir]

I find that Savage Blow is one of those skills that are useful even if it's just one unit that has this skill. Due to the nature of enemy placement and AI acting together as a group (like sometimes 6-12 of them move collectively; think Faceless in Ch. 21, Reinforcements in Ch. 22, Enemies on the Fort in Ch. 23, the last two batches of Flier-reinforcements in Ch. 24, the left chamber in Ch. 26, Endgame) in higher difficulties in Conquest, I often find myself eliminating a group of enemies in a single player phase. Having Savage Blow in this process makes this considerably easier and reliable, giving more leeway for RNs, spreading EXP, and more favourable unit placement in preparation for the next turn. (These kind of strats are surprisingly reliable due to how Dual Strikes and abiding by Weapon Triangle boost Hit Rates considerably, though it may be too slow for some tastes, and that it requires a team with many combat-proficient units)

It also helps that the class-line that gets it already has Lunge and high-movement, which makes the skill a lot more applicable, and the Wyvern line has a wealth of amazing skills and so is a strong contender for re-classing units who have it available, and in that sense isn't so unattractive availability-wise either, even if Malig-Knights falter a bit in terms of stats/growths.

Perhaps, but I'm starting to find that unless I have allies that can assist, trying to nail multiple enemies (by which I specifically mean groups of like 4 or more) with Savage Blow is just asking for whoever has it to get severely wounded or even worse, wind up dead. And if I DO have allies that can assist, they're probably capable of dropping most of, if not the entirety of the opposition without Savage Blow assistance. It sounds amazing on paper, but in actual practice, it winds up being a bit hard to get a lot of mileage out of without risking the life of the user. For this reason, I think it compares poorly against skills like Darting Blow, Luna, Live to Serve, Renewal, Natural Cover, and even HP +5.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[joshcja]

Perhaps, but I'm starting to find that unless I have allies that can assist, trying to nail multiple enemies (by which I specifically mean groups of like 4 or more) with Savage Blow is just asking for whoever has it to get severely wounded or even worse, wind up dead. And if I DO have allies that can assist, they're probably capable of dropping most of, if not the entirety of the opposition without Savage Blow assistance. It sounds amazing on paper, but in actual practice, it winds up being a bit hard to get a lot of mileage out of without risking the life of the user. For this reason, I think it compares poorly against skills like Darting Blow, Luna, Live to Serve, Natural Cover, and even HP +5.

This would be the point, go in, blick a dude, everything in the area is now in orko range with inherent lunge allowing for precise spreads of damage/support on up to 19 tiles of "fuckyouup" and when stacked with mal/inspiration/flowers a savage user can add up to 20-40 damage total onto kill ranges while feeding weaker units much needed exp.. It's mostly useful for safely removing mixed mag/phys murderballs (ex, lit all of conquest from ch18 onwards) when your MCU's are busy elsewhere (read: always), it's nice for people who don't play the entire game paired up moving through maps in a anus clenching huddle.

At a bare minimum comparing savage blow and luna side by side is really not a good deal for luna, in a situation where only one unit is hit by savage blow (100% of the time) it will on average do as much or more additional damage as a luna proc. Luna scales to an acceptable 40-50% procrate VERY lategame while savage is available...before any unit but jakob even learns luna.

On another note: I've found that Darting blow is awkward maingame, in BR you're already super sanic and in CQ... it's strong on non FK units but it costs 4 fucking k in seals outside of inheritance from Selena.

Edited July 12, 2016 by joshcja