Ace Attorney Mafia - Game Over (Won the Lawsuit!)

[Eurykins]

Buy it or not, you'll get in it full once I flip lol.

Rolecop, also, shouldn't really care about a Miller? I don't scan/find out what alliance people are, just what they are as a role. Don't see how that conflicts with a Miller being around or not.

Let's be real, the GM gave the role to ME. Chances are he banked on me hitting every single scum-modified or otherwise misunderstanding townside roles to where I'd be 100% incorrect on my scans as a result lol. (Not really, but we all know my track record as any sort of investigative role has proven to be like, srsly bad, unless I was on scumside, and that one game was a once in a blue moon sort of game for me, imo.)

[Eurykins]

EDIT: Unless there's something about Kirsche's role that I don't know or remember. But all I recall is that he's just a Miller something, so I'd have to ISO surf to find out if/when he said anything more about his role.

[ZoesMad]

If I claim, I'm liable to being killed. But hey, with the vig claim, maybe they'll be hit over me. But then again, it's a one-shot, so would probably still get shot over them. Damn, life sucks.

Could bother getting some reads/thoughts out, but work is just killing me atm, so just gonna say it and be done with it (since I would probably be mislynched either way and you'd see then? Lol).

> I am a Role cop.

Also part of the reason why I wasn't overly concerned about being seen as a lynch target. Being read as super townie just gets me shot faster, and so long as there's doubt on my slot, scum would be more okay with letting me live and just get out some scans. This just may be delaying the inevitable death (dying instead due to getting shot this next incoming night phase over getting mislynched over my apathetic state), but I figure it ought to buy town at least more time to not hit town again.

There are so many things wrong with this.

1: rolecop with Miller

2: expecting to be NKed??!

3: trying to justify apathy as a pro town action

4: saying that even if she's scummy her mislynch would help town

[ZoesMad]

Eury why would there be someone who scans as Mafia in a game with a rolecop

[Dragonflare7]

I recall him mentioning that he had more to his role than just a miller.

[Eurykins]

1. I still don't understand how "Miller" role conflicts with a role cop? Ask the GM once the game ends to see where they thought of the combination, and as to whether it actually conflicts or not.

2. Well, no shit sherlock. I'm a COP. Meaning that I can scan people and find out private information that scum team probably doesn't want me to find? Generally cops and other investigative roles, alongside protective roles, are pretty high tier in terms of kill priority for scum/anti-town parties.

3. I didn't say it was PRO TOWN ACTION. Just said it explained why I had little to no actual concern when I was considered a lynch target D1. I don't find the need to be seen/held as a SUPER TOWNIE player, as that generally tends to lead to them dying faster than people who are liable to being mislynched come the next day phase(s). That's why it's not surprising to see super strong/active townies (who may often have very strong players behind the roles/slots) die N1 or otherwise locked down via power roles to restrain what they can and cannot offer to townside.

4. Uh. Please do not put words in my mouth. What I explicitly said in THAT POST YOU QUOTED: I'm claiming now so you guys don't mislynch town role cop. If I die in the night phase as a result of me claiming, then it's still verified one way or another. Just would rather avoid the mislynch unless you guys are just dying to see my flip this day phase and render me 100% unable to actually prove my role during the next night phase (this assuming I survive and/or don't get blocked).

[Eurykins]

Miller :

UPON ANY SCANS THAT DICTATE/READ UPON ALLIANCE/SIDE BOUND INFORMATION, SAYS THAT THE PLAYER IS MAFIA SIDE.

Role cop:

GARNERS INFORMATION ABOUT THE PLAYER'S ABILITY(S), PASSIVE OR ACTIVE. SAYS NOTHING ABOUT ALLIANCE/WHICH SIDE THEY SCAN AS.

TL;DR: If I scanned Kirsche, it'd probably pop up with, "Hey, he's a Miller ___ (whatever else he is, if he does have a secondary thing)". Not whether he's Mafia or not.

I. Do. not. see. the. conflict.

[ZoesMad]

With regards to votes...I would have considered Toren...but...after the few things he's said (and the fact that he claimed Vig) I don't really know who else I would vote. I need to reread the other votes to see if any of them make sense to me this time... ^^'

Is a claim from me wanted by the way?

I would like your claim, although I think support for your lunch has shifted away for sure. Have you checked out any other votes you agreed with yet?

This doesn't read as scum to me, especially the bolded (it's too genuine). Feels frustrated because she doesn't know what to do over newb scum lurking and not having opinions because they don't want to stand out.

I don't want a claim from you.

##Unvote

I can see it being genuine but I'm not entirely certain that scum couldn't have the same problems as town would in this situation. If buddies helped her too much it would be obvious, and one of said hypothetical buddies already died.

[ZoesMad]

The conflict is that Kirsche implies an Alignment checker because he scans as Mafia.

Also there's the fact that rolecops just end up being scum more often because the team needs them.

[Green Poet]

You were unlimited shot rolecop in SF3 mafia and were unlucky enough to get three consecutive inaccurate results due to tailoring/redirecting shenanigans. Anyone who experienced something like this should want to avoid having to undergo something similar in a future game. Why were you so against theorycrafting on millers/"guarantee of accurate investigation results" in D1?

[Eurykins]

Secondly, there HAVE been games in the past in which Millers/Godfathers HAVE existed without the presence of any sort of Cops in the game.

Just saying. Can surf through older Mafia games to verify as such, both here and elsewhere. So not only does role cop not really conflict with a Miller role, but having a Miller does not automatically mean that something that CAN get tripped up on it/affected by it (aka. a cop) HAS to exist. Not everything, in terms of roles/set-ups, imply that the other half HAS to exist.

@GP:

Because theory crafting and role speccing only gets you so far. And a good chunk of players can often use it as an excuse/means of sliding under a player's radar and trying to pass it off as actual scum hunting, when, in the end, it really isn't. It literally becomes a game of "What if?" and I also felt that people were getting hung up on semantics over the rules. Gray areas can and generally do exist when it comes to rules, roles, and mechanics of the game. Also having the GM constantly posting in-thread to try and fix/clarify things made the early part of the game pretty clunky, and too much unnecessary posting from mods (aside from things like votals) tends to worsen, moreso than help, the progress of a thread/game.

[Dragonflare7]

A role cop would make the miller role pretty strange no? If they scan as Mafia to an alignment cop, but a role cop can just tell that they are a miller...it makes a miller role pointless...? Not sure if I'm understanding correctly but this seems like the case.

I can see why votes are on Eurykins at this moment, I might be okay with this vote...?

[Refa]

@GP ^^She was an unlimited shot cop, not rolecop. Also, have any of your reads changed (you mentioned wanting to read Elie/Quote previously) and why didn't you post them earlier?

TL;DR: If I scanned Kirsche, it'd probably pop up with, "Hey, he's a Miller ___ (whatever else he is, if he does have a secondary thing)". Not whether he's Mafia or not.

I. Do. not. see. the. conflict.

Having a Town Rolecop and a Town Miller completely defeats the purpose of having a Town Miller.

I can see it being genuine but I'm not entirely certain that scum couldn't have the same problems as town would in this situation. If buddies helped her too much it would be obvious, and one of said hypothetical buddies already died.

Huh...didn't think about that. I mean, your point is pretty valid, but I dunno...she's probably a Null for me at the moment.

[Eurykins]

Also there have been games where both alliance and role cops existed separately with both on townside. But I will not argue/contest the fact that role cop, in itself (As a role) is not alignment-indicative claim.

[Ken Masters]

So Eurikyins, what did my role said?

It has a pretty special name, and few limitations that are not common to all medium roles, so I would like you to try it out.

[Eurykins]

It said you were a Spirit Medium.

[Ken Masters]

It said you were a Spirit Medium.

Good start. Anything else?

[Eurykins]

Nope. I don't get anything in terms of active description of your role itself. Just the main title.

So I actually didn't know how/what to report it as, until you yourself disclosed it in-thread and it became pretty self explanatory. I don't have a huge experience with mediums in games, but could only assume it had to do with dead or otherwise compromised players.

That, and based on my knowledge of the series, I'm pretty sure your flavor is either Maya Fey, Mia Fey, their mother, or Pearls at this point. But that's just my side thoughts on when I got the results.

[Ken Masters]

Nope. I don't get anything in terms of active description of your role itself. Just the main title.

So I actually didn't know how/what to report it as, until you yourself disclosed it in-thread and it became pretty self explanatory. I don't have a huge experience with mediums in games, but could only assume it had to do with dead or otherwise compromised players.

That, and based on my knowledge of the series, I'm pretty sure your flavor is either Maya Fey, Mia Fey, their mother, or Pearls at this point. But that's just my side thoughts on when I got the results.

Well, better than nothing.

And your assumptions are correct, I'm Maya Fey, though that's irrelevant to the problem at hand.

See, rolecops are always more useful to the Mafia than to the Town, because while the Mafia knows who's town and who's Mafia (obviously), prioritizing kills is something much more valuable. What will a Townie do with said info? Keep it to himself? Disclosing it would be rather dangerous.

I don't doubt that you're a rolecop. What I'm wondering is if you're either Mafia or Town sided

[ZoesMad]

You were unlimited shot rolecop in SF3 mafia and were unlucky enough to get three consecutive inaccurate results due to tailoring/redirecting shenanigans. Anyone who experienced something like this should want to avoid having to undergo something similar in a future game. Why were you so against theorycrafting on millers/"guarantee of accurate investigation results" in D1?

I think this is really valid, especially since Eury actually could hypothetically check if Kirsche is actually a Miller or Mafia fakeclaiming Miller.

[Green Poet]

@GP ^^She was an unlimited shot cop, not rolecop. Also, have any of your reads changed (you mentioned wanting to read Elie/Quote previously) and why didn't you post them earlier?

Elie is probably town. Null on Via.

I was more interested with JB's iso. I think he could be scum, a read that would be stronger if Eury flips scum. tl;dr reasons for it are:

-Baiting Toren's claim (why would anyone protown draw attention to a crumbed vig claim? esp. from a player that seems new to mafia and might respond exactly how Toren did?)

-casing the two most inactive players (at the time) is easy and less likely to be genuine

-defending Eury with just "IDK why people are voting her? I wasn't personally scumreading her" (my paraphrase) without actually explaining why she's not scummy. Just tries to nudge people into considering town!Eury without argument

-"how is GP clarifying the rules townie at all?" I mean... without the mod clarification, my clarification would have literally confirmed scum!Kirsche on d1 :|

[Eurykins]

Oh I know that much. I mean, scumside has no real use for alliance cops, since they pretty much know who's NOT Mafia-side (though there is the grey area of "third parties", cults, etc.). That's why I know that my claim, in itself, isn't really meant to sway much in the sense of "Hey, I'm 100% a townie role" because I know I've doubted and have been skeptical of role cop claims for 90%+ of my time here on SF myself.

And of course that's true. Which again, is why I didn't feel like saying anything come ED2. For one, death-related roles (aside from maybe grave digger-esque roles? Not including back-ups with that notion, mind you.) are ones that I feel townside are more likely to attain than scum, and your role (knowing some sort of flavor/background knowledge of PW) made me wonder if the person you could channel could actually post or something with your account/voice, or something else to that effect. I know my experiences as a tree stump were pretty wonky, but I altogether figured you were highly more likely not to be a scum role vs. townside with an effect like what you have, if that makes sense

[Eurykins]

Oh, random ninja posts. Above post was directed towards Riptor.

[Eurykins]

I think this is really valid, especially since Eury actually could hypothetically check if Kirsche is actually a Miller or Mafia fakeclaiming Miller.

I admit I was curious as to whether I should or not on N1, but skepticism on Riptor's slot won out for me.

[Dragonflare7]

But wasn't the Miller claim the big thing that was discussed during day one?