Ensemble Mafia - N5

[Elemina]

[spoiler=Response to Blitz]

1. If there was something in a spoiler or a long wall, I might skim it if it doesn't seem important. I missed Rainbow's post response to me entirely yesterday, that's the only thing on my mind that I didn't read or respond to.

2. I only missed one thing and that was Green Poet's post last phase. I don't think I made any other mistakes. I post in the moment, so if you give me a few examples of these 'mistakes' I'll consider it.

3. That I do. I will continue to address everyone.

4. I think your conclusion simplifies my thought process here, but I'll explain it a bit more thoroughly. I think you and Rainbow are misguided, but do not expect people to scum read me for my play. So when more than three people attack me, I don't know where to look, who is actually scum and who actually is believing what they are saying. To me, the site meta here is very by the book, which I can respect, it's just I am not playing by the book, and I don't think many players do.

5. Not true, I think you misunderstand what I'm saying. I don't think everyone who defends me is town, I think there is a higher chance scum will be on the wagon than not, which is why I was asking you why you wouldn't want to look into the wagon first, but it makes sense since you say you don't look at wagons. (Which I highly disagree with)

6. And I will continue to do so. Activity > Inactivity. Inactivity kills games. Activity makes it hard for scum to get into the game.

I still think your push on Irony was scummy and how you went about it. Yet your omgus and misunderstandings and stubbornness show to me you are town, and I can tell as much with your effort here in the night. You still don't understand my RVS stance on Spinal yet you think I'm trying to twist your words when I'm not.

---

Good:

1) Yep

2) Yep

Bad:

1) I'll try to cut down a bit, but remain active.

2) Shouldn't be a problem if they are active already. A lot of players should be present to win the game.

3) I disagree, although there are things I don't have time to read or don't read at all if it doesn't seem important.

4) I was wrong on you, but now I see that you are town that is misguided.

5) That's too bad, activity is good. I refuse. I can understand cutting down on posting, but calling people out won't effect anyone negatively.

6) I want to know how this relates to me missing active lurkers, but I'm willing to reconsider.

Let me tell you what is bad:

There should be no player that has lower posts than the mod. Rainbow has less than ten posts, unacceptable, regardless of real life activities. A good post rate to be at would be 50 at most. Posting is good, activity is good.

ISO's. There are ISO's in the beginning but they only go so far, I have noticed. I generally like to re-read and re-read but now I have to do it from the very start and take notes (I feel it is more convenient)

People being AFK for a day should not be acceptable, at all. AT ALL. That's just crazy.

Signing up just to fill a game. That's bad.

Giving people passes because meta.

---

Let me explain something to you all. I am impulsive, that is true. I jump on things as I see them. I'm aggressive. My mind is disorganized. Nice to meet you all, SF. As I have said, this site's meta is pretty by the book it seems, and I wasn't playing by the book. People have a problem with my casing, which I don't see a problem with. Now if it's the formatting, that I can understand. I gave a summary to my case for those that like to skim to see the key points I feel are why that person is scum overall. It seems like people expect me to simply vote with a one liner and be done with the day. (That is how it seems to me when people say I am throwing a kitchen sink) Also, it's very inaccurate for people to base their scum-reads on me via behavioral and not look into the logical side, the actual content of the case.

Morning. I'm leaning towards Refa today. So you know, I was given a posting restriction now. I can only post up to 16 posts per every 24 hour period.

Ryker, I want you to push things for me.

Yedi, I want to see you posting more actively.

Irony, I want to see your vote and thoughts since you didn't vote yesterday.

I will not support a Ryker wagon at all.

I'll re-read and give analysis in my next post.

I will keep my vote in play.

I will be constantly viewing.

Everyone else, ask me questions and I'll be sure to get to them and answer them in my next post.

##Vote: Refa

Spamming the thread is a privilege, not a right. I have lost that privilege. XD

[charlie_]

Wrote this last night.

@Elemina: My problem with your Refa case it that it feels like you have super unrealistic expectations for earlygame, which makes things look weird as shit in context. I don't think that Refa was even mudslinging GP in general and even then I don't see why he would need to look at it from another angle so early. I don't think most of the game had been proactive at all by that point and I don't even get what you're trying to say about motivation. They definitely have analysis of Irony and questions for them to try and figure them out too so I really feel like you're not looking at all of this properly.

I can kind of see where you're coming from on the not following up on his first question to you, but that was way too early in the game to hold against him when you consider that you explained most of the list on your own anyway. I can see where you're coming from in terms of his Mallow read but I think that's more of a Refa thing than a mafia thing.

Having actually had time to rest and shit I get more of what you're saying but I still really don't agree with the conclusion.

Will post again when I'm properly awake.

[Irony]

Ok, so nobody died last night. That means that we must have a doctor and/or bodyguard who is doing their job extremely well. Or we could have a jail keeper who imprisoned one of the Mafia members. Unless the Mafia can choose not to kill. Whilst it would be extremely useful to know who they saved, as we could potentially find out who was chosen to be killed by the Mafia, it could put any of those three roles into extreme danger.

Apart from that, we can know for sure that Blitz is telling the truth about his role. Therefore, he is almost certain to be a townie (unless his role is Mafia aligned? I doubt that though.)

Anyways, I will be voting today. There are two things I will need to look at before I do so though:

1) Everyone's voting history. This might help me determine alliances and what not (for example. The way Ryker and Spinal interacted on Day 1 leads me to believe that they are either Town/Town, Mafia/Town or Town/Mafia. This is because two Mafia members are unlikely to put that much attention on each other. Could lead to them getting lynched after all.)

2) Again, I'll need to look at everyone's reads and various arguments, and see who was coherent and who was not in their views. If someone isn't coherent, and is bandwagoning, it could suggest that they are Mafia?

Apart from that, I'll will just be looking at the thread and see what arguments are made today. :)

[charlie_]

We should turbo SB while he is asleep to honour SF tradition.

This is only tradition for you and Shin.

[charlie_]

@Yedi: do you think Proto's reads are 'bad' (considering you dislike them) in general or do you just disagree with them but get where they're coming from? I kinda get where you're coming from here, but if it's the former why not bring up the people you think he sheeped the reads from?

Overall though I actually like the yedi slot and get the feeling that he's just overwhelmed by the amount of posts (same tbh). It's easy to see where his thoughts are coming from and he seems comfortable talking about and expanding his reads in a way I wouldn't expect from scum here.

I actually think lynching GP here was crazy considering >scumgov. Lynching provable roles is ??? unless scum claiming them is common practice on smashboards(?)? I think kirsche's reaction makes the most sense out of what I've seen but need to actually look at where his vote ended up in a minute.

Omega needs to provide content or just get lynched today. I'm used to him shitposting and was fine with it for a while, but combining that with radio silence at phase end and never really engaging anyone in conversation it feels like he's just trying to coast by as things are.

@Omega: Please explain your read on Proto and the way phase end went down. Hardlurking through it only to show up for the hammer is weird as fuck.

##Vote: Omega

Would like to look over Proto/Spinal/Hober again when I get the chance but atm I need to eat and get ready for classes.

[charlie_]

Also kirsche's stance is alright. Did GP mininterpret her tole or am I reading it wrong?

[Irony]

Also, at the moment, my readings are thus:

Mafia: Elemina, Ryker (I've said why before, but I still don't really trust them) and YOLOSWAG (Posts aren't detailed enough, and seems to be taking advantage of situations.)

Town: Spinal, Blitz, Refa (Same reasons as previously), and myself (obviously, I know what my role is).

Null: Pratically everyone else.

These are just preliminary reads, and that's why my reads are not in too much depth at the moment. Both my reads and the reasons behind them will change as I go reread the Day 1 thread (seriously, why are there 600+ posts in the Day 1 section?!) and see how everyone reacts. That might take me a while, due to life, but I will get that done! :D

[Irony]

"same goes for irony. irony, you should give your opinion on what happened this phase, what you learned from my lynch, what you think about those who were on my wagon, and when they got on it. so far you've passed under the radar and a lot of people are glossing over your play largely by virtue of you being new, which should discontinue."

Sorry I missed the endgame stuff, I was asleep when it all went down.

Anyways- I will try and answer your question, but I need to check stuff first.

[Irony]

##Vote: Green Poet

It's not easy being green or mafia, but you're at least one of those. =(

Sheepworthy case tbh.##Vote: Green Poet

##Vote: GreenPoet

Who's the guy who said he's going to be MIA all day? Someone describe him to me if I'm going to be missing him for the entirety of D1.

Scum:

1. Rainbow

2. Greeenpoet

3. Spinal

Vote: Rainbow

Firstly, I learnt that I should have trusted you, and I apologise for my scum read on you, Green Poet.

So, I'm going to start with the first posts into the thread of those that jumped onto the bandwagon.

1) Refa- as I'm going through one page at a time (yes, I'm an idiot) , I don't yet know whether Refa provided a reason for voting for you or not, but you were the first to vote without providing a reason, so maybe it was in response to that? As I said, I'm reading 1 page at a time, so I don't know.

2) SB- Again, SB was being suspicious of your first vote, which didn't provide a reason for why you voted for Spinal.

3) Ryker- Now, my judgement may be affected by my views on Ryker

4) Emelina- yes you did explain you're reasoning later, which makes you slightly more trustworthy, but at the time it was highly suspicious. But then- Refa asked you your reasoning for your list, and you said "I'll tell you later". Why did Ryker, of all people, reply with an emoticon?

I can't remember who said that they hoped that Ryker and Emelina were the Mafia team, due to the fact that they kept on getting each other to answer questions posed to them. However, I'm seriously starting to believe that Emelina and Ryker are members of the Mafia. It's weird that, despite all of the suspicions piled onto Ryker and Emelina, the two of them are still a team? This has been further increased by Emelina saying that there's no need for a Ryker vote. Emelina, why do you say that? If I'm right, and your role allows you to know how many Mafia members there are, then you wouldn't know who is a member of the Mafia. Why are you so confident that Ryker is a member of the ensemble?

Apart from that, Page 1 was uneventful.

[Ken Masters]

Hey, I'm at work now so here's drop by: Halloween ended, so Spinal is back to being Ken :P

[charlie_]

Irony, do you know what RVS is?

[Irony]

Is it because I'm 2spooky4u?

No really, kinda early to have a readlist of 3 people. Especially considering I posted once until now.

That is, if you do have one. And don't bring me that "not telling by now" shit because that's usually stalling for time until a good reason appears.

On other things

Had Rainbow not said a word about "pls no lynch" I'd be fine with dissappearing for a full day, because life's a bitch sometimes. Buuuut.... he did, so there's that to take into consideration. No free passes today, sorry :/

I would like to know the reasoning behind the 3rd Green Poet vote aswell. Not a common thing to se around.

I think these are good starting points for now. Productive day 1? Is that possible? O.O

Spinal supporting my point, yes. It was rather early to be claiming reads on three people. You did explain your "role" later, but there are two issues:

1) This is an easy role for the Mafia to fake. If you were Mafia, you would know how many people were in the Mafia, and you could easily cast suspision onto someone who was not in the Mafia (RIP Green Poet). Yes, you did explain you reasoning for voting Green Poet at the very beginning (that's the next thing I'm commenting on), but why did you vote Rainbow and Spinal so early on, even though they had commented only 1 at that point? 1 comment is not enough for a scum read. I will comment that, if someone did have that role, then they would have counter claimed, which does lessen the amount of suspision on you. Unless of course, that role isn't even in the game in the first place.

2) The way you did it was suspicious. You could have said "my role allows me to know how many Mafia members there are. There are three members of the Mafia, and 10 people in the ensemble." Instead you just say three people's names, and say that they are Mafia members, when only 10 comments have been made.

Green Poet was just for being first poster. I think scum want to have an early advantage, therefore I thought it's possible he may be scum. Although I did consider him voting Spinal as a partner link but it's weak. I put Spinal in the list since he didn't vote and it showed he didn't care to progress the phase, and now seems to be posturing rather than trying to help the phase. Rainbow I felt had no reason to state that Ryker was suspicious and then say it was a joke at the end. So it seemed fake.

What is your read on Irony?

Yep, this is the next thing I'm commenting on. Reasoning does makes sense, admittedly. However, I will only say that for Rainbow and Green Poet's read. If you said that Spinal was Mafia because "he didn't vote and it showed he didn't care to progress the phrase" then why did you not include me on the list? I said that I was abstaining for the entire first day, and at the time I was getting to grips with the whole Mafia thing. (And before you ask, no I'm not Mafia. I am in the ensemble. If I have to, I could claim my role, but I'd rather not do so at the moment.)

Okay. I will try to be as clear as possible.

Calling someone "scum" based solely off RVS assumptions and lack of votes literally 10 posts into the game, is bollocks.

I didn't use my vote so far because I like to vote what I think deserves to be voted, which is why you didn't see a RVS vote from me, but a rather a shitpost in replacement. Achieved the same effect without the need of casting a vote for the sake of casting a vote.

Now, the real issue is how you jumped the gun and immediatly stablished "scum links" via RVS. It means you have absolute no ground to throw shade at anyone, because it's all a very uninformed assumption mostly driven by gutfeelings.

You see, what you accomplish by throwing shade at people this early on with no base to it, is harm the Town progress, because we now have to explain to you why that kind of behaviour is useless to us.

You can bark all you want, but if you don't have the factual bite behind it, then you'll get stomped by people less compassive than me.

Again, I agree with Spinal. Your actions in making the Mafia list could also be a Mafia thing to do. You'd be throwing suspicion onto other players, and you made that list without a shread of evidence. Again, this makes you highly suspicious in my eyes.

[Irony]

Irony, do you know what RVS is?

Admittedly, I don't. If you could explain, that would be amazing. :)

[Ken Masters]

Admittedly, I don't. If you could explain, that would be amazing. :)

Random voting. Usually shitposting for the lulz

[Ryker]

Morning. I'm leaning towards Refa today. So you know, I was given a posting restriction now. I can only post up to 16 posts per every 24 hour period.

Ryker, I want you to push things for me.

Jeez, I think I had more posts than you yesterday.

And I'm not doing much of anything this 24 hour period if I'm being quite honest. The new Blazblue dropped yesterday and I downloaded it last night. I'm losing today to training mode.

in general, I still hate ##Vote Rainbow, but I have to reread the game in general. At this point I am not opposed to lynching YOLO if he doesn't show up in thread. Those are the only two that I'm down to lynch at the moment.

Reading thread before I go back to trying to break my fingers with Naoto again.

[charlie_]

RVS is the super earlygame where everyone essentially shitposts and vote randomly until something happens. It sounds weird but it happens every game. You're not super likely to find anything useful there.

[charlie_]

Cut by Ryker.

How do you normally read Omega? He's played a few games here but I suck at reading him to the point that I usually just try and figure him out based on circumstances.

[Irony]

RVS is the super earlygame where everyone essentially shitposts and vote randomly until something happens. It sounds weird but it happens every game. You're not super likely to find anything useful there.

Random voting. Usually shitposting for the lulz

Oh, right. That makes sense now. I've seen that phrase being thrown around and it confused me. :/

As I said, I'm going through one page at a time, just to see what was said, try to summarise it and in general I am also trying to answer Green Poet's question. And to do that, I need to go from the beginning.

[Ken Masters]

Spinal supporting my point, yes. It was rather early to be claiming reads on three people. You did explain your "role" later, but there are two issues:

1) This is an easy role for the Mafia to fake. If you were Mafia, you would know how many people were in the Mafia, and you could easily cast suspision onto someone who was not in the Mafia (RIP Green Poet). Yes, you did explain you reasoning for voting Green Poet at the very beginning (that's the next thing I'm commenting on), but why did you vote Rainbow and Spinal so early on, even though they had commented only 1 at that point? 1 comment is not enough for a scum read. I will comment that, if someone did have that role, then they would have counter claimed, which does lessen the amount of suspision on you. Unless of course, that role isn't even in the game in the first place.

2) The way you did it was suspicious. You could have said "my role allows me to know how many Mafia members there are. There are three members of the Mafia, and 10 people in the ensemble." Instead you just say three people's names, and say that they are Mafia members, when only 10 comments have been made.

Yep, this is the next thing I'm commenting on. Reasoning does makes sense, admittedly. However, I will only say that for Rainbow and Green Poet's read. If you said that Spinal was Mafia because "he didn't vote and it showed he didn't care to progress the phrase" then why did you not include me on the list? I said that I was abstaining for the entire first day, and at the time I was getting to grips with the whole Mafia thing. (And before you ask, no I'm not Mafia. I am in the ensemble. If I have to, I could claim my role, but I'd rather not do so at the moment.)

Again, I agree with Spinal. Your actions in making the Mafia list could also be a Mafia thing to do. You'd be throwing suspicion onto other players, and you made that list without a shread of evidence. Again, this makes you highly suspicious in my eyes.

You know, I highly value the effort here, but at this point analizing the first moments of the game is kinda unnecesary when you have all the things that happened yesterday. Besides, by rule of thumb RVS shenanigans are just that. Elemina jumping the gun (an attitude that was pretty consistent through the day) was pointed out many times now.

Again, I really appreciate you taking the time to look back, but it is redundant. The Green Poet debacle and the SB stuff is probably more worth the attention now.

Jeez, I think I had more posts than you yesterday.

And I'm not doing much of anything this 24 hour period if I'm being quite honest. The new Blazblue dropped yesterday and I downloaded it last night. I'm losing today to training mode.

in general, I still hate ##Vote Rainbow, but I have to reread the game in general. At this point I am not opposed to lynching YOLO if he doesn't show up in thread. Those are the only two that I'm down to lynch at the moment.

Reading thread before I go back to trying to break my fingers with Naoto again.

You know, I'm starting to agree with your decissions as of late. I still think your actions yesterday were terrible and harmful to the Town. But I cannot call you scum on the same level I think Hober (or whoever replaces him) was.

Unfortunately, as Kirsche proved me time after time, there's no inherent scumminess on your kind of behaviour.

I don't agree on Rainbow, I think he has been on the same Kirsche-vibe of low post count - high content and I haven't found any particular actions that are scummy or harmful.

Also Taokaka for life

[Ryker]

My, oh my. Irony is an interesting customer. I don't really know what to do other than call irony town and consider that if she's playing dumb, then it will only ever work once, so whatever. You can have that if you want it that bad.

Elemina is still a town read for me.

Yedi is a town read for me.

I like Omega, Kirsche, and Ken, but I'm going to reread them after that flip.

YOLO is suspect because I know next to nothing about them.

I am FAR less bothered by Refa with a GP town flip.

Blitz can live for a good long time, as far as I'm concerned. I have a good idea where his head is at and that's fine by me.

I like SB's content today, but I'm going to reread the slot because I struggle to remember what he did on D1.

Irony is a crapshoot because of the nature of new players. I am actually really bothered by the scumreads there, but a lynch there is really dumb. i would like a cop on that slot, but there's so many other better uses of the cop's time (YOLO for example).If anyone has a good sell one way or another on that slot, pitch it to me.

I STILL hate Rainbow.

[Ryker]

Cut by Ryker.

How do you normally read Omega? He's played a few games here but I suck at reading him to the point that I usually just try and figure him out based on circumstances.

Who is Omega? I dunno him by that name if I know him.

[charlie_]

Omega is Yolo, isn't he?

[charlie_]

Unless I'm mixing him up with Junko playing the most obvscum game of his life.

[Ryker]

Also Taokaka for life

Look, i understand being nice, but this is a comment that deserves being thrown off a bridge. Do not bring up that stupid cat. I hate cats (If you play CF, you can add me if you want. PM me).

As for the game. I obviously don't like the content from Rainbow, as I've stated before. What do you make of his unwillingness to move things out of the null pile except for putting them in the scum pile? His read on you for example?

[Ryker]

Omega is Yolo, isn't he?

Not in any setting as far as I know. I assumed he was the Hober Mallow replacement when you mentioned him.

I have chased YOLO in search of reads for many moons. He is, quite frankly, the best lurker I've ever had the displeasure to play with. He is impossible to lynch on D1 and does almost nothing visibly (I have tried and am quite good at getting what I want). I generally try and read him by results, which is 0-1 at the moment.

However, what little of his reads have been posted I agree with. I am more than willing to let him live if he starts giving me things today.