Refa Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Mallow is likelier scum than Spinal. At this point I'm no longer able to believe that scum!Spinal could maintain this kind of argument with Ryker/Elemina and still be focused on the same things he has been. Page 20 is literally nothing but Spinal and Elemina back-and-forth with progressively greater aggravation, and no budging, on Spinal's part. ##Unvote Who's on board with a Mallow lynch? Looking through your ISO, your Spinal vote seemed to be based on his back and forth with Ryker. What did you think of his content after that but before Elemina? Why would Scum!Spinal be unable to maintain multiple arguments? If you believe that doing it once makes perfect sense for him as scum, I don't get why he couldn't do it twice. What are your thoughts on Elemina? You mention being willing to consolidate on them but the most you have on them is saying that their claim could come from scum. I don't care about a vote purely being for consolidation but I don't get why you'd vote someone who, for the most part, you've mentioned to be town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hober Mallow Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 When is the deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elemina Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 At first I thought it made sense because it corroborated my thoughts as to why Elemina posted what he did at game start, and didn't think past that. Unless myself or Elemina were at that time about to be lynched due to role-based incrimination, there lacks a purpose in validating my guess. but I think the claim more intuitively comes from scum than town 1. You didn't think past that until now when there are two votes on me. 2. I claimed to show that your mindset was correct. It's why I was asking you what you meant from the start. (I underlined it) People were pushing you for it and I wouldn't let that happen, and I said that your response seemed genuine, yet you then lurked. This along with your vote that you forgot to remove is scummy. 3. That you state this now rather yesterday is scummy. Questions: Why didn't you think past that? Read on Refa, Rainbow, and SB? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hober Mallow Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 When is the deadline. Nevermind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elemina Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 ##Unvote; ##Vote: Green Poet @Yolo: Join me. @Hober: Join me. @Spinal: Join me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Poet Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Looking through your ISO, your Spinal vote seemed to be based on his back and forth with Ryker. What did you think of his content after that but before Elemina? Why would Scum!Spinal be unable to maintain multiple arguments? If you believe that doing it once makes perfect sense for him as scum, I don't get why he couldn't do it twice. It was a progression of me thinking "he's just scum tunneling, and being rewarded with a drawn-out argument that lets him feign frustration" to "okay... there's no way scum would actually still be doing this. Everyone has already formed their opinions on Spinal's arguments so it's not like continuing them will make people reconsider the possibility of scum!Ryker or scum!Elemina." What are your thoughts on Elemina? You mention being willing to consolidate on them but the most you have on them is saying that their claim could come from scum. I don't care about a vote purely being for consolidation but I don't get why you'd vote someone who, for the most part, you've mentioned to be town. I haven't mentioned that Elemina is likely to be town. I did say that claiming informed, particularly informed numbers, is protown. That was in the context of the game where I rolled that (unless I'm misremembering, it's Elie's FFTA mafia) and I claimed it in my first post. This isn't what Elemina's claim accomplished; my issue with his claim is how (1) it wasn't necessary to claim that at the time in order to verify anything crucial, and (2) he waited until I explicitly introduced the existence of such a role being used in SF mafia, and how people would tend to claim it at game start, that he claimed that exact role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hober Mallow Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Green Poet going after the obvtownie is disgusting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hober Mallow Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 YOLO, to answer your question about Spinal. I have a town read on him. I disagree with his mafia philosophy, but he has been consistent in his approach. I liked early on that he disagreed with Elemina but maintained an open mind about his alignment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Poet Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 1. You didn't think past that until now when there are two votes on me. 2. I claimed to show that your mindset was correct. It's why I was asking you what you meant from the start. (I underlined it) People were pushing you for it and I wouldn't let that happen, and I said that your response seemed genuine, yet you then lurked. This along with your vote that you forgot to remove is scummy. 3. That you state this now rather yesterday is scummy. 1. So? If I thought this realization automatically made you scum I'd already be voting you. 2. As I said, validating my mindset isn't value that precedes keeping your role secret. I'm not a cop with a guilty scan on you; validating my ED1 suspicions is meaningless compared to not claiming unnecessarily. 3. How is that scummy? It's just inconvenient for scum!you for me to bring this up now. If the sentiment can just as easily be reciprocated by a townie, it's not scummy, it's just opportunistic if that player is actually scum. Green Poet going after the obvtownie is disgusting. I'm the one who explained to you why Elemina's claim (if it's legit) was townie. Why would scum!me establish the towniness of that claim and only now go against it unless I legitimately had something to gain? Think this over for just a while instead of posting what immediately comes to mind. Scum gains nothing from validating Elemina, whether Elemina is and then doing anything that could remotely result in his lynch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Poet Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Scum gains nothing from validating Elemina, whether Elemina is town or scum, and then doing anything that could remotely result in his lynch. ebwop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Poet Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Mallow, you should read the cases of people who are actually voting Elemina. I still need to find Blitz's claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elemina Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Mallow, you should read the cases of people who are actually voting Elemina. Why are you asking him to read cases on me when you are not even voting me? What is the purpose in you suggesting he do so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hober Mallow Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 I think you should just stop pushing for an obvious mislynch. From what I've seen of you so far, you come off as intelligent enough to know that your case is garbage. If you're seriously going to push him on the basis of not claiming his role right away, then you're probably scum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hober Mallow Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Blitz claimed on the first page btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Poet Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Why are you asking him to read cases on me when you are not even voting me? What is the purpose in you suggesting he do so? He seems to think you're obvtown, which is impossible for anyone to be in the current gamestate. It's more beneficial for us if Mallow is caught up and see if he agrees or disagrees with the cases on you to update his opinion, because right now Mallow's read of you is based on exchanges from page 14. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Poet Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 obvious mislynch Explain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elemina Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Don't dodge the question, Green Poet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elemina Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Nevermind, I missed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elemina Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 He seems to think you're obvtown, which is impossible for anyone to be in the current gamestate. It's more beneficial for us if Mallow is caught up and see if he agrees or disagrees with the cases on you to update his opinion, because right now Mallow's read of you is based on exchanges from page 14. That is quite the assumption to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elemina Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Green Poet there is a thing called Burden of Proof. Hober Mallow doesn't need to explain his town read, you need to explain your concerns. Yet, you aren't voting me, and don't seem to be scum reading me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Poet Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 That is quite the assumption to make. It's really not. I've been citing page numbers for everyone's easier reference but it seems no one's actually going and checking those pages? Page 14 is the page where I personally explained to Mallow why an upon-game-start informed numbers claim is townie, and he responded with "Sure, that makes sense, I guess you're town?" (my paraphrase) Since he believes what I said, he believed that the role made you town. That he doesn't understand my current concern regarding the timing of your claim compromising its absolute towniness is what indicates to me that he hasn't read my recent posts, and is still adhering to what he learned on page 14. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Poet Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Green Poet there is a thing called Burden of Proof. Hober Mallow doesn't need to explain his town read, you need to explain your concerns. Yet, you aren't voting me, and don't seem to be scum reading me. ...what? No, burden of proof is a concept that applies to legal disputes because legally-enforced accusations without evidence create a state wherein literally every citizen can be arrested at any time by any other citizen. This doesn't translate to a game of internet mafia in the slightest; that I can rvs vote someone and that rvs is considered "optimal play" at ED1 is proof of that. Hober needs to explain why he thinks you're obvtown because a d1 cleared townie is theoretically impossible to have. My concerns have been explained: Your claim concerns me because I now realize that the fact that you didn't claim upon game start, but instead only during a period when I introduced the role's precedence on SF mafia and the towniness associated with it. I'm not voting you because it doesn't make you scum, it makes you not-"obvtown". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hober Mallow Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Ah I see how you could have interpreted my read on Elemina that way. I don't know how many times I have to say that I have a town read on Elemina (and Ryker, and Spinal, and Irony). I said this in my first post in the game. I clarified this last night. I don't town read her for her role. She lacks the aversion to risk as scum would have. She's been contently trying to push the game forward and comes off as very obviously trying to figure things out. All of her bazillion posts have had scumhunting intent behind them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hober Mallow Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 I think it's foolish of you to assume that any person with that role would go about it exactly the same way as you. Yedi even thought the opposite when she claimed. That is evidence enough to show that not everyone would think of it the same way as you (unless you believe Yedi/Ele scum mates). I don't think you're foolish so you're probably scum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elemina Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 I want to remind everyone that: 1. GP voted me and left her vote on even when her issues with me were resolved. 2. Has lurked when under pressure 3. Is now opportunistically deciding to think past my claim beyond null after there are votes on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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