Boon/Bane question for Swordmasters

[___]

I like Swordmasters. A lot. What is your recommended Boon/Bane combination for a Swordmaster child with a Corrin mother/father? I'm thinking either HP or Def for bane. Reason why I have not picked Mag as the bane is because of the -1 penalty to Spd. HP doesn't affect either Skill or Spd, but it does penalize Str and I'm not sure how badly it affects HP. And Def, well, that's clearly a significant problem in combat. For Boon I would probably go with Spd, but it's a close one with Skill.

Also, what skill sets have you guys triy with your units? I have been playing with the following but I'm not entirely sure on the last two:

Swordfairy

Life and Death

Aggresor

[Duelist' Blow/Darting Blow/Astra/Gale Force]

Any thoughts are welcomed.

[Lord Kyuubi]

Well, I played Swordmaster Corrin in all three routes, so I can confirm it's definitely very usable and fun, but there are definitely some complications. For Boon and Bane, I'd go Speed and HP respectively - Speed is easily your most valuable stat, for dodging attacks and doubling everything, including high-speed bosses like Kotaro and Ryoma in Conquest (don't know which version you're playing, but the principle remains the same). HP Bane I'd recommend simply because it doesn't have as much of an impact on your survivability as Defence and while you'll want to dodge everything, that won't always work in practice, so maintaining okay Defence should allow you to take a hit or two when the RNG goes against you. Magic Bane sounds good for a physical class, but as you say, it also affects your Speed, and on top of that, using a Levin Sword can sometimes be useful.

As a Swordmaster, your main purpose will be to 'headhunt' specific enemies that pose a threat to your other units and either kill them off quickly or weaken them for another unit to finish. As such, a Swordmaster is often a good candidate for Boots, for reaching important targets. It's also often worth having Azura sing for you, to either eliminate another enemy, or to retreat out of reach after dealing with your target. For your equipment, I'd say Brave Sword is probably your best, since the penalties shouldn't affect you too much and most things will either miss or two-shot you either way; otherwise, a Killing Edge is nice but watch out for the -10 Avoid, an Iron or Steel Sword/Katana as a general purpose weapon, a Dual Katana if you can get your hands on it, and depending on how your magic turns out, a Levin Sword might be worthwhile.

By far the biggest problem with the class, I would say, is its lack of action on Enemy Phase, where most of the fighting tends to go on. None of the ranged swords really suit the class at all, with the Kodachi preventing doubling, the Wakizashi not being able to counter in melee, and the Levin Sword relying on good magic and giving -20 Avoid, and this means your options for counter-attacking are sadly limited. You might be able to pull the odd one or two units that only have melee weapons, but when doing so, you'll want to keep to cover as much as possible, keep some supporting units nearby or paired up with you, and avoid pulling out anyone who can actually kill you outright. Life's not easy for a Swordmaster - something worth keeping in mind is it's never good to write off an enemy's chances of hitting you, and as long as they have any chance at all, plan for the worst. Depends on whether you like gambling, I guess.

As for skills, I would say the standard class skills are some of your most valauble. Duelist's Blow is an absolute lifesaver, and pretty much makes the class on its own. Vantage can be useful if you're in a dangerous spot, but it can't really be relied on, especially as a Swordmaster should be avoiding most combat on Enemy Phase anyway - it's sometimes worth having, but there are definitely better skills you could be using. Astra's great when it procs, since it pretty much guarantees you'll take down your opponent, and it can be very good for filling up the shield gauge as well; that said, it does have a rather low proc chance, and you may benefit more from something more reliable like Luna. Swordfaire goes without saying - more damage is always very nice.

Aside from that, to quickly go through your suggestions, I'd say Aggressor is definitely a good idea, for more damage output on Player Phase. Life and Death I'd be very wary of, since it probably puts your firmly in one-shot range of most enemies, and even if you could safely lower your health somehow to use it with Vantage, you probably still won't be one-shotting most things, and are then at risk of being killed by their retaliation. Darting Blow isn't really any use, since you should be doubling everything anyway. Gale Force can definitely work, to either attack more enemies in a turn, or to get out of trouble after making a kill. Other than that, I'd recommend Death Blow, +20 crit is very valuable and can absolutely help take down tough enemies more reliably - I'd say it's better for this than Astra because of how high your crit chance can get, though using both in conjunction can definitely work well too. On that note, Gamble's nice for still more crit chance, and the lower accuracy shouldn't really matter to a Swordmaster at all. Quick Draw if you really want to optimise damage output can be an okay option.

Well, I think that's pretty much it, can't think of anything else I may have forgotten. Do let me know if I missed anything, hope this is of use to you. Good luck, and watch out for those 10% hits - they do happen more than you'd hope!

[___]

Wow.

Let me just say first of all I'm very impressed by all the information you just wrote, thank you very much!

And I mean, you just pretty much covered all the main points about the class so you clearly understand its game plan and that's double points from me, so again thanks.

Truth be told, I do realize this class has lots of limitations. Probably the thing that gets me depressed the most is the lack of good weapons to chose from. Silver weapons are strong, but their penalties accumulate quickly if used frequently. You don't really want to use anything that screws with their speed (like Steel) or can't double (like the Kodachi, as you mentioned) or reduces their Avoid. I have found the Brave Sword to be one of the more reliable weapons to use since you'll often attack four times per turn, so that matters, but otherwise there are few options without forging. I do carry that terrible Levin Sword around, but it's usefulness is too little since the magic stat tends to be low, and coupled with that awful -20 avoid, it's just not very attractive.

As for picking the boon/bane to go with, my main concern was not touching Spd or Skill as much as possible. Spd is obvious, but I do prefer not to touch the Skill too much since I do think of trying out Astra here and there. So HP for bane is probably what I'll go with; naturally Life and Death is that much harder to use now, but I'll fill that spot with something else. The only part left here that sort of concerns me is the -1 to Str. Since Swordmasters have a base 30 Str, dropping to 29 is a tad low, isn't it? I'm not too sure how often you encounter units with 30+ Def, but skills like Aggressor don't activate unless you deal some damage in the first place, as I understand it.

I'll try out your suggestion of Death Blow, I'm intrigued by it now that you've mentioned it. Personally Killing Edge is one of my favorite swords, but that Avoid penalty does make you weary of it, but it should still be fun to watch the combination of both.

[Shadow Mir]

Personally, I find an HP bane in a game that tends to be called "Low HP Emblem" very unappealing... In fact, the only bane I'm willing to work with is a Skill bane, though that might not be appealing.

[Dragonslayer9x]

The advantage of the HP bane is that it gives you a str statue, I've been using it more and I find Corrin to only be behind by a few points of health (easily fixed with 1 seraphs robe). It ends up being better then a def bane stat wise if you are grinding, and lets you have a +11 str Kana without too much of a def hit.

[___]

Personally, I find an HP bane in a game that tends to be called "Low HP Emblem" very unappealing... In fact, the only bane I'm willing to work with is a Skill bane, though that might not be appealing.

It truly isn't (skill bane), since I do feel having a healthy skill is part of the essence of the way the class plays. Occasionally I do load my Swordmasters with activated skills, so I do want that stat to remain above 32 at least. The best unit I have has a 37 skill I think, and I find it works fairly well.

But I'm experimenting, so if the HP penalty turns out to be too heavy, I will likely have to give up something else.

The advantage of the HP bane is that it gives you a str statue, I've been using it more and I find Corrin to only be behind by a few points of health (easily fixed with 1 seraphs robe). It ends up being better then a def bane stat wise if you are grinding, and lets you have a +11 str Kana without too much of a def hit.

I thought that items like Seraph Robe can't push you beyond stat caps? If I'm right, wouldn't an HP bane lower the max HP cap, and so even a Robe can't make up for that?

[Dragonslayer9x]

HP bane only affects your growth. It doesn't hit your max hp. All banes give -5 to total stats, -3 to one and -1 to two others, HP bane though gives -1 to everything but skill and speed.

[Lord Kyuubi]

Wow.

Let me just say first of all I'm very impressed by all the information you just wrote, thank you very much!

And I mean, you just pretty much covered all the main points about the class so you clearly understand its game plan and that's double points from me, so again thanks.

Now you're embarrassing me. Hey, you're very welcome! Glad to be of service! Now, let's continue.

Truth be told, I do realize this class has lots of limitations. Probably the thing that gets me depressed the most is the lack of good weapons to chose from. Silver weapons are strong, but their penalties accumulate quickly if used frequently. You don't really want to use anything that screws with their speed (like Steel) or can't double (like the Kodachi, as you mentioned) or reduces their Avoid. I have found the Brave Sword to be one of the more reliable weapons to use since you'll often attack four times per turn, so that matters, but otherwise there are few options without forging. I do carry that terrible Levin Sword around, but it's usefulness is too little since the magic stat tends to be low, and coupled with that awful -20 avoid, it's just not very attractive.

Well, yeah, Fates in general is like that, but the Swordmaster does probably suffer more from this than most classes. Especially since Iron Swords aren't really an option due to their low might coupled with the Swordmaster's typically low Strength stat. Brave Sword is pretty much your best option in most cases - the defence penalty looks worse than it is, given you should be dodging most things anyway, and most things will two-shot a Swordmaster with or without it, though I'd be careful of running into some very high-damage enemies like Generals or Sorcerers who might manage a one-shot if you're unlucky.

Other than that, Silver Sword/Katana works better on a Swordmaster than on most classes because being a primarily Player Phase class means you won't be fighting nearly as many enemies as some units, and as such the debuff shouldn't pile up quite so quickly, though it's still definitely a 'special occasions' weapon either way. Steel Sword/Katana (preferably the latter, due to the +1 speed) actually isn't bad at all as an early-game option. The -3 effective speed just means you need 8 more speed than the opponent to double, which sounds a tall order but shouldn't be a problem unless you're fighting other Swordmasters, or Master Ninjas or something like that, and the -5 avoid (effectively -3 with the katana due to the speed bonus) isn't too bad considering Duelist's Blow will still put you at +25 avoid overall, or more if you've got defensive terrain.

Given a Swordmaster should spend every available turn either attacking or running away to safety, there's really no reason not to just carry around five swords, though, which should cover most situations - between a Brave Sword, Killing Edge, Dual Katana, and any effective weapons appropriate for the chapter, you should still have room for a either a forged Iron or Steel Sword as a general-purpose safe pick, or possibly a Kodachi if you think you might face some Enemy Phase action; or maybe stick to four swords and grab a Concoction if you think you might use it, though you'll much prefer having healers keep you topped up rather than using your own turns for that.

As for picking the boon/bane to go with, my main concern was not touching Spd or Skill as much as possible. Spd is obvious, but I do prefer not to touch the Skill too much since I do think of trying out Astra here and there. So HP for bane is probably what I'll go with; naturally Life and Death is that much harder to use now, but I'll fill that spot with something else. The only part left here that sort of concerns me is the -1 to Str. Since Swordmasters have a base 30 Str, dropping to 29 is a tad low, isn't it? I'm not too sure how often you encounter units with 30+ Def, but skills like Aggressor don't activate unless you deal some damage in the first place, as I understand it.

HP Bane is probably the least harmful overall, I would say, yes. Regarding your Strength, you should be dealing adequate damage to most targets as it is, and -1 shouldn't hinder that too much - generally speaking, Swordmasters shouldn't really be going after high-defence units more than they can help, particularly if you plan on using Gale Force, as not getting the extra kill and subsequent extra turn can be a huge problem. I can't think of what you'd be fighting at 30+ Defence other than Generals - and for them you can use an Armourslayer to get around that problem. Mostly, the combination of your Strength, weapon might and Aggressor will be enough to ensure plenty of damage on most targets, so you'll be best off going after whatever's most dangerous to the rest of your party, to ensure it gets killed before Enemy Phase. Probably your biggest problem is if an enemy has the Wary Fighter skill, stopping you from doubling - though the combination of Death Blow with either a Killing Edge or Brave Sword should still let you do a strong amount of damage to most of these targets.

I'll try out your suggestion of Death Blow, I'm intrigued by it now that you've mentioned it. Personally Killing Edge is one of my favorite swords, but that Avoid penalty does make you weary of it, but it should still be fun to watch the combination of both.

Killing Edge is fine so long as you aren't in any danger on Enemy Phase. Taking a hit, even if you barely live, is absolutely fine as long as there's no-one around who can follow up on that. Hopefully you still shouldn't get hit at all, given you get a combined +45 crit from the combination of Killing Edge and Death Blow, as well as the Swordmaster having an innate crit bonus - for extra points, if you're using Arthur you could stand him near the enemy you're going for since his personal skill will knock down their critical avoid by a lot. And even with the Killing Edge's -10 avoid, you still get +20 overall from Duelist's Blow, plus any terrain, if you don't land a crit. The real trick is to make sure on Enemy Phase, your tanky units are taking and countering all the hits, and your Swordmaster is out of reach - or barring that, has some cover and someone has traded you over to a safer weapon, preferably one that can retailate against anyone you're in range of.

So I hope this answered a few potential questions and concerns, and suchlike. Still think you may be giving me too much credit for that first post but hey, if you say it was good, who am I to argue?

[___]

Thanks again, Kyuubi

I do occasionally throw my best Swordmasters out there to the wolves and just watch stuff happen, sort to see how well skills play. I do lean towards katanas because of the +1 speed, using stuff like the Practice Katana (+5 speed) or Hagakure Blade (+20 avoid) to see what happens. Naturally I still exercise some caution when dealing with spear wielders and others, but I do want to find ways to make them as effective as possible, worse coming to worse, and carrying stuff like Dual Katana and Armor Breaker.

But again, thanks all for everything! All your comments helped me make up my mind about the choices I had to make for my current run.

[Emblem Blade]

Swordmasters, being tied for the fastest units in-game with Master/Elite Ninjas. Speed is normally (and should be) the Avatar's Bane, especially if one like me knows how bad RNG is in leveling up for good stat growths and you don't want to be doubled (you want to double the opponent unless you're a tank with Wary Fighter and other support). The Bane should be something that doesn't make you anymore fragile than the class is. Defense doesn't penalize either offensive stats (Str/Mag) but it makes you more prone to being knocked out in 2-hits by just about every other class that would require 3+ hits to KO you if you were at full HP since you lose out on 3 Defense points. You could go with Magic Bane (penalizes Mag (-3), Spd (-1) and Res (-1)) as it does the least to impact Swordmasters who are physical and already sport high resistance and speed of course you lose out on that one point in Speed which sometimes can be an issue for My Castle fights only.

I find your selected skills to be good. Life and Death is a bit risky on a fragile class though unless you can find something to get around your Lance/Naginata/Dagger/Shuriken weakness. Aggressor only works on your turn but the damage boost is still good when combined with Swordfaire. I would try to run either Luna or Rend Heaven over Astra since the first two have higher activation rates and will help give you more power if you didn't have Swordfaire and/or Life and Death. Luna halving the enemy's Defense stat which is awesome if you get pitted against a General/Great Knight/Wyvern Lord. Rend Heaven gives you half the targets associated offensive stat that they have equipped (50% of their Str if they use non-Stones/Tomes/Scrolls) and even if you face an enemy such as a Sorcerer/Witch who use Magic instead, you still double them most of the time and can possible 1-TKO them with two crits (if you get two crits in a row in that battle if your attack power is high enough). Rend Heaven also gives you an edge against Berserkers, Wolfssegner, Wyvern Lords, and Snipers who all have very high Strength which if you can crit them with RH, they might go down in one blow. Also, Shurikenbreaker helps you cover against the likes of Master/Elite Ninjas who would love to debuff you to where anyone can KO you eith ease by lowering their chance of hitting you and increasing your chances of striking them, with Dual Katana, chances are...you won't be hit so easily. Lancebreaker is an alternative, like Shurikenbreaker, both skills help reduce your weakness weapon from hitting you while increasing your chance of hitting the target, Dual Katana + Lancebreaker prevents most Lance/Naginata-users from hitting you if they use a Naginata/Lance at all in battle on your unit.

Dual Katana (don't let opponents catch you off-guard by using a weapon that takes advantage of the Dual Katana once your turn ends), Brave Sword (be wary of using it on enemies who can tank you as you suffer from -4 Def/Res while equipped with it), smithed Steel weapons (the -3 Spd penalty isn't much if your Speed is very high). The S-Rank Hagakure Blade isn't a bad option, it's very powerful...yet pretty bad since if you attack (or attack and miss) your Strength stat gets halved and unless you have something like Luna or Rend Heaven (or Ignis (male)/Aether (either) both are DLC), you aren't going to do much damage until your Strength stat recovers.

[Shadow Mir]

The advantage of the HP bane is that it gives you a str statue, I've been using it more and I find Corrin to only be behind by a few points of health (easily fixed with 1 seraphs robe). It ends up being better then a def bane stat wise if you are grinding, and lets you have a +11 str Kana without too much of a def hit.

That's not really much of an advantage unless you were min-maxing since the extra Str statue likely won't ever be relevant, for one, and second, there's not much to optimize for unless you're into PvP (which I'm not).

[Dragonslayer9x]

That's not really much of an advantage unless you were min-maxing since the extra Str statue likely won't ever be relevant, for one, and second, there's not much to optimize for unless you're into PvP (which I'm not).

PvP is life sir :P

HP bane is one of the situations where your bane statue benefits most of your units. With 50 statues max you don't always use a def, mag, res or luck bane statue (the most commonly encountered banes), you generally want max Str/Mag, Skill, and Speed statues, everything else is to minimize one shots or maximize hit rates (luck statues, but even so it can be hard to find space for them)

[Shadow Mir]

PvP is life sir :P

HP bane is one of the situations where your bane statue benefits most of your units. With 50 statues max you don't always use a def, mag, res or luck bane statue (the most commonly encountered banes), you generally want max Str/Mag, Skill, and Speed statues, everything else is to minimize one shots or maximize hit rates (luck statues, but even so it can be hard to find space for them)

My view on PvP is this: The less said about it, the better.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia