Super Smash Bros. Switch Discussion: And the cycle continues again.

[solrocknroll]

I highly doubt very many characters will be added but

Inkling (obviously)

Elma (Xenoblade X was quite successful)

Isabelle/Nook (probably)

Ice Climbers (pretty much guaranteed)

Random Character (like WFT)

Retro Character

Dixie Kong/Decidueye/BotW Impa (because relevant)

Shantae/Shovel Knight/Snake/Jibanyan (no 3rd party would be weird)

Maybe like 5 out of those. Inkling, Shantae, Ice Climbers, Elma, and Decidueye are probably the best choices out of those.

[King Marth 64]

I would like to see to some stuff for Switch version is:

Add Veteran fighters comeback: Red (as a Seperate Fighter) - could use his Pokemon to summon for one of his attack and special moves since Zelda, Kind Dedede, Shulk, Pac-Man, Mega Man, Peach, Lucas, and Duck Hunt does that & plus, use his Sun and Moon atire similar to Ike went to Ranger to Hero for the Nintendo 3DS / Wii U version + could use him for the Anniversary Collaboration, Ice Climbers, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Young Link (I'm not talking about Toon Link and he did coexist with Toon Link in Hyrule Warriors and Toon Link doesn't share the same type with Young Link), Pichu, Solid Snake, and Wolf.

Newcomers I do like to see: Flynn from Shin Megami Tensei IV (since Cloud was the highest requested character for Final Fantasy series, I hope he might make it if they'll added Atlus characters), Secondary Namco character (since Ryu and Bayonetta are secondary 3rd Party Fighters for Capcom and Sega), one of the Dragon Warrior/Quest heroes (as a secondary Square Enix rep), Impa, King K. Rool, Mike Jones from StarTropics (since I did seen the two Wii U Virtual Consoles were marked as Best Sellers in the Wii U eShop until Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE was released for a few days later and got disappeared afterwards and plus, the first StarTropics was also included in the NES Classic Edition as well) as a retro rep, Inklings, Mallo from Pushmo series, Arcade Bunny from Nintendo Badge Arcade, Ragna the Bloodegde from BlazBlue series, Ninten from EarthBound Beginnings since his game and EarthBound were marked in the Best Selling category in the Wii U eShop, Henry Fleming from CodeName S.T.E.A.M., Decidueye (since Charizard is Fire and Greninja is Water and both of them are Final Evolution Starters, but we're missing a Grass type in the Nintendo 3DS and Wii U version also) and one of the Ultra Beasts (possibly add it as an unlockable fighter) from Pokemon Sun and Moon, Shantae, Shovel Knight, Quote from Cave Story, hero from the upcoming Ever Oasis for the Nintendo 3DS, the Avatar & Elma from Xenoblade Chronicles X, Zeal from The Last Story, and Aaron from Pandora's Tower (since Nintendo was the one made the two games and they were added in as Trophies for the Wii U version, plus Nintendo did put their own Company Name as a Publisher in the Wii U eShop).

New Assist Trophies: One of the Final Fantasy, Street Fighter, and Bayonetta characters tagged in with Cloud, Ryu, and Bayonetta similar to like Gray Fox for Solid Snake, Shadow for Sonic, Electric Man for Mega Man, and the Ghosts for Pac-Man, Caeda or more Fire Emblem characters so that Lyn won't be the only FE Assist Trophy, more Animal Crossing characters for helping out, another Punch-Out!! character since Little Mac was an Assist Trophy in Brawl and cameback as a Newcomer for the Nintendo 3DS / Wii U version, and some others also.

I do like Smash Run return, Tabuu and some other bosses from Brawl return, give Yuri Lowenthal voice Marth since he voiced Marth in CodeName S.T.E.A.M. and Fire Emblem Fates and it's now his canon English voice actor, give Roy an English voice since Lyn is from the same continent as Roy and Lyn is one of the possible mothers in Fire Emblem game + Roy did make a cameo in the 7th game also, and give Steve Burton to voice Cloud (I totally think the developers might have just rushed it since there were only two music slots in the Midgar stage), and fix some localization mistakes that they weren't correctly got it from the other fighters' games, more trophies for Street Fighter other than Ken and Final Fantasy series, and Stickers comeback as well.

Stages comeback: New Pork City and some other stages from Melee and Brawl.

Edited December 23, 2016 by King Marth 64

[Tolvir]

Did you not see me say they have their own game series (where they're, obviously, a playable character)? It's even popular enough to have a racing spin off. As for abilities, they have displayed the ability to use magic (and having intelligence) dozens of times in both their own games and the main series. The coolest (and most inexplicable) is the ability to summon meteors. But they've also specialised in healing and guard magic as well as general offensive stuff like Chocobo Flare. I can only assume due to the number of games released over the years and the relative lack of discussion of them over here (despite most, maybe even all, of them getting localised) that it's the kind of thing that's more popular in Japan. Evidently someone's playing them though.

Problem is it's a bigger thing in Japan than it is to the rest of the world. While it would appeal to the Japanese fans and a small niche everywhere else, it would really fall flat. It's like adding in the Vault Boy from fallout. It may hit really big in the US, but everywhere else not so much.

I see your point, but I think the Chocobo is better represented through an assist trophy or stage hazard rather than a full on character. Characters that people have built an emotional attachment to, much like Cloud (which is why his entry got as much attention as it did. Wouldn't of been nearly as big of a deal if say, the black mage, was revealed) will be the safer route to go.

[The DanMan]

Welp, there's been a reliable rumor dump about the upcoming Switch presentation; apparently, the alterations and additions to Smash for it are "minimal". Looks like two new characters and maybe their homestages is about all we should expect.

[Tolvir]

Welp, there's been a reliable rumor dump about the upcoming Switch presentation; apparently, the alterations and additions to Smash for it are "minimal". Looks like two new characters and maybe their homestages is about all we should expect.

Sounds about right tbh. I really didn't expect to get more than 3 new characters. Though I do think it's a bit of a wasted opportunity.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Tolvir

[solrocknroll]

Welp, there's been a reliable rumor dump about the upcoming Switch presentation; apparently, the alterations and additions to Smash for it are "minimal". Looks like two new characters and maybe their homestages is about all we should expect.

I think three is the best bet.

One big current new-series first party, one first party from a returning series, one third party

Inkling is a lock, Elma, Isabelle, and Decidueye are probably fighting for the next spot, while the third party could be anyone honestly.

[Jotari]

I think we need to question if this port will be featuring content exclusive to the Switch, or if the enhancements will apply to the current versions too. If it's the former then I think Ice Climbers are a certainty since it was revealed they're basically finished but just not implemented due to 3Ds limitations.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Jotari

[Magical Glace]

I think we need to question if this port will be featuring content exclusive to the Switch, or if the enhancements will apply to the current versions too. If it's the former then I think Ice Climbers are a certainty since it was revealed they're basically finished but just not implemented due to 3Ds limitations.

They want people to buy the Switch Version, so I would imagine the content would wind up being exclusive to it.

[The DanMan]

Who else is really hoping that the DLC characters get custom moves? And for that matter, I'm personally hoping that all customs are unlocked from the start and usable online (as that would greatly open them up for meta testing).

[Anacybele]

I hope that too, or that we at least get Smash Run instead of Smash Tour because I found it a lot harder to unlock stuff through the latter and the former is just fun.

[Tsunami922]

Who else is really hoping that the DLC characters get custom moves? And for that matter, I'm personally hoping that all customs are unlocked from the start and usable online (as that would greatly open them up for meta testing).

This. Also, customs need to come back to tournaments.

[Anacybele]

This. Also, customs need to come back to tournaments.

This, definitely. I was always mad that custom moves weren't allowed in a lot of tourneys because there are a bunch of characters who do much better with customs, like Ike and Palutena.

[Comet]

no, customs were dumb. pikachu should not be allowed to kill at 30 and sheik should not be able to break shields with needles.

[Troykv]

no, customs were dumb. pikachu should not be allowed to kill at 30 and sheik should not be able to break shields with needles.

What custom was the one that does Early-Kills?

Giving to Sheik (an already powerful character) a easy ShieldBreaker it was really dumb xD

[Anacybele]

Ban the more broken customs then, no big deal. I mean, if I recall, G&W was banned in doubles for being a super broken teammate.

I want my custom Ike so bad. I feel like with customs, he could be upper B tier, maybe even A. Tempest has big gimping abilities, Aether Wave gives him a projectile and is crazy fast, and the one Quick Draw custom that has Ike do a shoulder-check attack instead of a sword strike is nuts for racking up damage (can't believe I don't remember the name...). I've been able to drive opponents up a wall with that one. lol

EDIT: Close Combat! That's the Quick Draw custom I'm thinking of. I remembered it had the same name as a Pokemon move and it came to me. XD

Edited January 9, 2017 by Anacybele

[The DanMan]

no, customs were dumb. pikachu should not be allowed to kill at 30 and sheik should not be able to break shields with needles.

True, a select few wouldn't work in the competitive side of thing. A select few.

The only real reason they were blanket banned was because of the randomized nature of unlocking them prohibiting testing.

If everything was unlocked, I'd hope that (at least a few) people would be more willing to go all-in; find what does and what doesn't work, keeping around what does and banning what doesn't.

[Jedi]

The main thing people had against customs as a whole, aside from the unlocking thing, is that it made you have to learn effectively every match up like 50 times over even more, and the fact that there are some incredibly good moves that aren't really broken, but are good enough to make a character significantly better than they already were.

While this is good in theory, alot of players dislike some of the more janky potential that customs bring, even the ones that aren't like Pikachu's Heavy Skull Bash or Villagers Tripping Sapling, people generally found customs less fun to play with than vanilla. Some moves able to instantly break shields all of a sudden or cause massive shield pressure out of nowhere, were generally the reasons people felt the game would become more defensive overall.

Which if you're in the smash community, a game being more defensive is generally seen as bad (not inherently, people are just annoyed with how competitive brawl turned out).

Banning only a few customs would be unfair, so its all or none, not to mention the vast amount of discussion as to what should be bannable and not, thus confusing players more and more on what they should practice against and for, or to pull off.

Edited January 9, 2017 by Jedi The Red

[Comet]

custom villager was literally not fun to play against at all. when you have to make a list for which customs are allowed and which aren't, the ruleset becomes completely subjective based on what's "broken", "without integrity" (villager), etc.

[The DanMan]

The main thing people had against customs as a whole, aside from the unlocking thing, is that it made you have to learn effectively every match up like 50 times over even more, and the fact that there are some incredibly good moves that aren't really broken, but are good enough to make a character significantly better than they already were.

While this is good in theory, alot of players dislike some of the more janky potential that customs bring, even the ones that aren't like Pikachu's Heavy Skull Bash or Villagers Tripping Sapling, people generally found customs less fun to play with than vanilla. Some moves able to instantly break shields all of a sudden or cause massive shield pressure out of nowhere, were generally the reasons people felt the game would become more defensive overall.

Which if you're in the smash community, a game being more defensive is generally seen as bad (not inherently, people are just annoyed with how competitive brawl turned out).

Banning only a few customs would be unfair, so its all or none, not to mention the vast amount of discussion as to what should be bannable and not, thus confusing players more and more on what they should practice against and for, or to pull off.

While I get what you're saying, it feels more like the competitive community was averse to change (the re-learning match-ups argument I saw get thrown around much more, to the point where users pro-custom moves on Smashboards were straight up saying "Now, if you brought up the tedium of unlocking them, then you'd have a solid argument"). "People felt the game would become more defensive overall"-- there was never even a realistic option to test them out.

And I don't see why banning select customs would be unfair, or at least it's not any less fair than banning a character. I think the latter part of this statement highlights the bigger issue: it would make things more convoluted for the community.

[Jedi]

While I get what you're saying, it feels more like the competitive community was averse to change (the re-learning match-ups argument I saw get thrown around much more, to the point where users pro-custom moves on Smashboards were straight up saying "Now, if you brought up the tedium of unlocking them, then you'd have a solid argument"). "People felt the game would become more defensive overall"-- there was never even a realistic option to test them out.

And I don't see why banning select customs would be unfair, or at least it's not any less fair than banning a character. I think the latter part of this statement highlights the bigger issue: it would make things more convoluted for the community.

People tested them out at Evo, and there was much ire over Villagers sapling, DK the Last Airbender, Pikachu's Heavy Skull Bash, Marths Cresent Slash thats a free combo out of a grab release, Wii Fit's abillity to stall even harder, Sheik getting even more options, Rosalina getting tons of ridiculous options. Do I even need to mention Mii Brawlers ridiculous 30% kill combo?

And this is just a few of the characters, believe me my local and a few majors DID try customs.

Edited January 10, 2017 by Jedi The Red

[The DanMan]

People tested them out at Evo, and there was much ire over Villagers sapling, DK the Last Airbender, Pikachu's Heavy Skull Bash, Marths Cresent Slash thats a free combo out of a grab release, Wii Fit's abillity to stall even harder, Sheik getting even more options, Rosalina getting tons of ridiculous options. Do I even need to mention Mii Brawlers ridiculous 30% kill combo?

And this is just a few of the characters, believe me my local and a few majors DID try customs.

Yeah, there are some problematic ones.

So people would have to learn to try to play around them and the truly problematic stuff would be banned outright.

At the end of the day though, I'm just wondering why custom moves can't even be used online outside of matches with friends. It feels odd that the devs would go to the effort of including them and yet limiting them. It feels like that they themselves thought of them as no more than janky additions rather than a worthwhile evolution-- which marks them as wasted potential.

[Florete]

no, customs were dumb. pikachu should not be allowed to kill at 30 and sheik should not be able to break shields with needles.

Customs can be fixed through patches, just like regular attacks. This is poor reasoning. Also, similar jank already exists in default sets.

I'm fine with banning customs in Smash 4 as it is (though not for the reasons people usually use), but I really do hope they're implemented better next time so they can appear in tournaments again. If they're unlocked from the start, selectable at the character selection screen, and usable online with anyone, I think people would be much more open to them. If any are really, truly toxic and/or game-breaking, ban the individual moves, not the whole bunch.

[General Horace]

imo you can't go ban individual moves from one character because then not all characters are on a level playing field. If you ban counter sapling on villager villager mains will complain to get mii brawlers broken upb banned and it's just an endless cycle. customs were kind of a neat idea but it really ended up being for the most part "add windbox here" or "make stronger and slower here"

Edited January 14, 2017 by General Horace

[Tolvir]

So before the Switch Presentation, I had a thought that I considered had a chance of happening. Considering Square Enix's partnership with Nintendo, I figured Final Fantasy 15 would be among the announced games. And I thought, what if they announced Noctis for Smash because of that for a third party character. I still consider that it could happen, as they said further games are to be announced, though it is EXTREMELY unlikely at this point. Maybe E3 announcement.

 

So what does everyone think, Noctis for Smash?

Edited January 17, 2017 by Tolvir

[Magical Glace]

If Square Enix gets another character, I'd honestly rather it be Dragon Quest, since we already have a FF character.

 

While my first choice for that is Madason Gotha (The DQV protagonist), I can see it being Loto (the III protagonist, as DQIII is a really big thing) or "Eleven" (because recent) more easily.