Who deserved more plot focus?

[Extrasolar]

3 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

In all seriousness though, I agree on most of the points you guys made and I'd like to throw in my own suggestion: The Awakening trio. Yes, that's three characters, but honestly, outside of the DLC, what the heck were they there for?

Fanservice, my friend. Pure fanservice. They were voted most popular on a poll, and boom, suddenly they're in the game. Then again, I far preferred them being the actual characters from Awakening with a plot reason why they're showing up again than that travesty with Asugi and Rhajat... I mean, your intentions are already transparent. Just have them come back and be done with it, rather than inexplicable reincarnation clones, or some such nonsense.

[DragonFlames]

8 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

Fanservice, my friend. Pure fanservice. They were voted most popular on a poll, and boom, suddenly they're in the game. Then again, I far preferred them being the actual characters from Awakening with a plot reason why they're showing up again than that travesty with Asugi and Rhajat... I mean, your intentions are already transparent. Just have them come back and be done with it, rather than inexplicable reincarnation clones, or some such nonsense.

Yup, figured as much. Which is a real shame, because it would have been awesome to have the DLC story actually tie into the main plot more.

[Altrosa]

I don't know, the DLC answered a pretty decent amount of questions regarding Corrin and Lilith. 

I just wish that there was a hint or some follow up to them either realizing Corrin was their intended leige or their failure to find said leige, verses them apparently resigning themselves to being stuck in this world for a few years. 

I'm on the fence with them overall, however, as the Awakening children are more matured and worldly versions of themselves, but their supports with other units make it seem like they never really fit in, especially poor Odin, who's bullied in half of them, even by Corrin. 

But the other three? I wonder why they bothered. Rhajat is so different in her mannerisms and treatment of others, she may as well not be Tharja at all, and instead just be an achetype of what the "cute stalker" was. Caeldori's got motivations, and the lack of a Chrom figure to contantly pine over removes half of what Cordelia was about. Asugi, however, is just a lesser Gaius. Great unit, but doesn't bring anything different save daddy issues with Saizo.

[Salamud]

I suspect the issue with character focus being talked about here is an extension of how Fates has an overly large cast of major characters. I mean, looking at just the playable cast of undying characters you have at least:

-Corrin

-Two sets of siblings with four each

-Azura

>The Maids and Jakob

>Gunther

That's fourteen characters. Looking at just the royal families only three of them really play a big role across the games for how close they are to Corrin (Xander, Takumi, Leo). Ryoma for example sits around in Conquest while the war with Nohr happens, runs off to do whatever in Birthright, and follows Corrin's lead in Revelations. 

I would say Fates has the issue of having developers who shoved in too many directions for the plot. It would have been better served if they cut down on siblings for Corrin and didn't insist on mirroring so much of what happens.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Salamud

[DragonFlames]

8 hours ago, Altrosa said:

I don't know, the DLC answered a pretty decent amount of questions regarding Corrin and Lilith.

That it did, however, none of it is even slightly mentioned during the main storyline of Revelation, where Lillith just vanishes for the entire plot and the Awakening trio doesn't even speak up about the stuff that happened there, because apparently it is more important to show how 'stupid' Corrin is. While I do like the idea that Corrin never finds out who their real father was, there is no reason not to reveal it in this type of story, especially if we take into consideration what 'Revelation' implies.

And it would have made Lillith's pointless deaths in BR and CQ more dramatic and relevant if Corrin found out she was their only true blood relative at that point and not some kind of half-friend, half-lover 'I-don't-know-why-we-even-bothered-creating-her-character-when-the-plot-jerks-off-to-Azura-all-day-anyway' kind of bullcrap.

In short: Fates needed about ten or so more chapters per path to make time for these explanations, the world building of Valla, Hoshido and Nohr, and an in-depth look at Anankos' and Garon's motivations and psyche. It needed to involve Lillith more in the plot, maybe even make her playable as a full on Manakete like Nowi, Fae, Tiki or Myrrh. And less wanking off to Azura and the royal brothers. Way less.

*sigh* Bashing Azura and the Royals is way too much fun. I'm almost glad they exist. Almost.

[Altrosa]

HOLY CRAP I FORGOT ALL ABOUT LILITH.

Now SHE deserved more. 

Lilith's vow of silence from guilt over her time with Anankos was such a bizarre plot point. I mean, I understand she felt the need to serve and watch over Corrin as penance, but yeah. It amounts to very little as she really just acts as a story to gameplay device to explain the astral realm My Castle system.

The devs apparently wanted her to the My Castle mascot, but since she has no proper supports or special dialogue, and only shows up in three scenes in the 3 paths after becoming her betta fish dragon self, she's pretty much been forgotten by the time she's murdered. 

She seemed like she was supposed to be a sort of virtual pet unit, with the food you had tweaking her growths, but that's only a theory as she only has the barebones of that kind of system. 

And, honestly, I don't think I've ever once had Lilith do anything in a castle battle. She just sits there the whole time, even in layouts where she's directly in the path to the throne. I don't even know how her two weapons work!

Even giving her the caretaker role Felicia and Jakob (or Flora, Gunter, generic NPC) have at the outset would be an improvement since she'd be actively helpful and always in the open verses hiding away in her "temple" waiting for food offerings. Then we could talk to her as with other units in the realm.

She's such a waste of potential on all fronts. She just ended up being another death to push Corrin foward that rang hollow since we never got to get attached to her.

[Etrurian emperor]

Garon and by that I actually mean Garon and not Gooron. The plot would work so much better if Garon had ever acted as he was supposed to act. 

[NekoKnight]

2 hours ago, Altrosa said:

HOLY CRAP I FORGOT ALL ABOUT LILITH.

Now SHE deserved more. 

I wish she was just excised from the plot entirely. The only thing she's needed for is the introduction to My Castle...which could easily have just been a normal camp, because it's never brought up again after being introduced.

[SpearOfLies]

3 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

In short: Fates needed about ten or so more chapters per path to make time for these explanations, the world building of Valla, Hoshido and Nohr, and an in-depth look at Anankos' and Garon's motivations and psyche. It needed to involve Lillith more in the plot, maybe even make her playable as a full on Manakete like Nowi, Fae, Tiki or Myrrh. And less wanking off to Azura and the royal brothers. Way less.

Fates just need write better. I don't want as excuse that it didn't have enought chapters. It waste many chapter for the sake of fanservice and filler.

[BlueBloodEmblazer]

Anyone who isn't the avatar.

[Extrasolar]

6 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Garon and by that I actually mean Garon and not Gooron. The plot would work so much better if Garon had ever acted as he was supposed to act. 

Pretty much this. Slime monster Garon is one of the dumbest things in the game, in my opinion. They could have made Garon a nuanced and interesting character, but they defaulted to lazy "he's a literal monster so he's one-dimensional in personality now." Very frustrating, to say the least.

5 hours ago, SpearOfLies said:

Fates just need write better. I don't want as excuse that it didn't have enought chapters. It waste many chapter for the sake of fanservice and filler.

Very true. They could have done much better than with what they had. Especially so in the Conquest path.

8 hours ago, Altrosa said:

HOLY CRAP I FORGOT ALL ABOUT LILITH.

Now SHE deserved more. 

Lilith's vow of silence from guilt over her time with Anankos was such a bizarre plot point. I mean, I understand she felt the need to serve and watch over Corrin as penance, but yeah. It amounts to very little as she really just acts as a story to gameplay device to explain the astral realm My Castle system.

The devs apparently wanted her to the My Castle mascot, but since she has no proper supports or special dialogue, and only shows up in three scenes in the 3 paths after becoming her betta fish dragon self, she's pretty much been forgotten by the time she's murdered. 

She seemed like she was supposed to be a sort of virtual pet unit, with the food you had tweaking her growths, but that's only a theory as she only has the barebones of that kind of system. 

And, honestly, I don't think I've ever once had Lilith do anything in a castle battle. She just sits there the whole time, even in layouts where she's directly in the path to the throne. I don't even know how her two weapons work!

Even giving her the caretaker role Felicia and Jakob (or Flora, Gunter, generic NPC) have at the outset would be an improvement since she'd be actively helpful and always in the open verses hiding away in her "temple" waiting for food offerings. Then we could talk to her as with other units in the realm.

She's such a waste of potential on all fronts. She just ended up being another death to push Corrin foward that rang hollow since we never got to get attached to her.

Yup. Fates tried to set up Lilith's death as this huge tear-jerking moment, but...it's not. She barely did anything, and barely had any relevance. We get told over and over again about their closeness, about how Corrin rescued Lilith and nursed her back to health, but they just don't interact enough to make their relationship meaningful.

Making her an actual playable party member would alleviate a lot of that, since not only would she have relevance in cutscenes, but Corrin could support with her, thus developing their bond and finding out more about their history together. Making her a forced unit in the chapters in which she is killed would get rid of that nonsensical "Lilith suddenly shows up out of nowhere" thing that bothered me even the first time I played through the game.

Not to mention, having an astral dragon party member would just be plain cool.

[Hero_Lucina]

OOOH Boy I have a list.

Scarlet: Revelations. Worst.Death.Ever. Everyone knows this.

Lillith: Nearly forgot about her. She needed to be a manakete like in the past. Corn is worthless as a sole Manakete.

Corrinsexuals: EVERYONE NEEDED At least 1 more support! My ideas include

Shura: Saizo, Azura 

Reina: Orochi, Whatever Mikoto's tactician was

I can't remember the others

Spoiler

How to make the Anthony arc worth something (in my eyes)

1. Introduce him earlier, cut out the team trying to unite the armies so that we get to Valla faster (like 10 chapters of non Valla filler like what)

2. At first make him like Team Rocket, not a threat just an annoyance so that they have to chase him around and actually world build Valla

3. After a few chapters, they catch him, get information out of him and how there's a town that still has people in them that he was trying to protect it so he had to side with Anankos. Then we get him as a playable character for a while.

4. The team heads out to the village and evacuate the people while Corrin and Anthony defend the village where Corrin notices something off about him. Chapter 19 happens a bit differently as it's a get Anthony to a certain level (you still keep him but he becomes alot weaker) and we get some of the information we got previously about Gyges and all that. 

5. 20 happens like normal, but since the team knows he worked for the enemy, he could still have ties to them and take in a lot more suspicion, Jakob threatens to drop a mountain on Anthony if anything suspicious happens again, but after they look the scene over after the battle, Anthony had nothing to do with the bridge breaking.

6. The dead parents arc is condensed into 2 chapters as Anthony mentions how they were brought back and more world building stuff. Then around 22 or 23 the original 21 happens but it's Anankos possessing Anthony and the chapter is to unpossess him. You can either remove his possesion in 7 turns and get him back or if not you have to kill him like what normally happens. After this, Corrin learns to not hold lots of faith in people and the game continues normally.

 

[henrymidfields]

Um, pretty much everyone except Corrin, Azura, and Xander? I've ending up writing an expanded (and also modified) fanfic story from Chapter 13-14 onwards for my current Conquest LP (see my signature), since so many people are either pushed aside. Like I added stories of:

• Why Kaze made the difficult decision to team up with (the United States of) Nohr (LP Chapter 17)
• How Arthur is sort of the moral compass of the Nohrian Army (Chapter 17 and maybe 20)
• Why Keaton is a mutant (Chapter 19)
• What is the relationship between Laslow, Selena, and Odin (and Lucina for the amiibo users) with both Nohr and Ylisse, and how they are coping after their previous ordeal with the Risens, (Chapter 16, 18, and 20 onwards) and
• How Sakura and Elise got together to prepare for reconciliation (Chapter 18, and 22 onwards)

On the other hand, I'm happy to excise Lilith; I forgot about her until Chapter 21 - my LP has an different chapter epilogue.

Edited March 16, 2017 by henrymidfields

[SniperGYS]

Hinoka and Lilith

Specially Lilith because she dissapear from the story after saving you... And only come back to die in a random way. And in Revelation she is forgotten forever, not even the epiloge talks about her.

[vanguard333]

A lot of characters who needed more plot focus have already been brought up, so I'm not going to mention anyone who hasn't been mentioned already.

The RainbowSage/The First Dragons in General. The only real mythology/ancient legends in the entire game is about how the royalty of Hoshido and Nohr are descended from the Dawn/Dusk Dragon respectively, and they are repeatedly mentioned but never expanded upon, in a game where the protagonist transforms into a dragon. For example, one of the chapters in Birthright and Conquest takes places in the bones of a giant dragon. Is that dragon one of the first dragons? Did it die in the war between the first dragons? Is it the dusk dragon? If not one of the first dragons, does that mean there are/were other dragons besides the First Dragons?

Also, are the Hoshidan/Nohrian royals descended in that their ancestors received blood from the respective First Dragon, or are they actual descendants?

The Rainbow Sage is the only interaction we get with one of the First Dragons (since it is implied but never confirmed that Anankos was one of the First Dragons), and, in Birthright and Conquest, all that happens is that he blesses the Yato. In Revelation, you find out that he was one of the first dragons, and that the "great sin" he keeps referring to that he committed is that he forged the sacred weapons and brought humanity into the war between the First Dragons, and that he must live until humanity has the chance for peace in order to atone for what he did. ...That is interesting, but it is never expanded on, never mentioned again, doesn't explain how the Yato ended up in a statue of the Dawn Dragon, and the only other thing we know about the First Dragons comes from an ancient text that has no bearing on the plot. At the very least, it would have been nice if the Rainbow Sage had said something along the lines of, "The Yato chose you because you carry the chance, and the desire, for peace."

One thing I think they could have done that would have improved the plot would have been if the Rainbow Sage or someone said that, while the intelligence of dragons is like that of humans, a dragon's instincts are far stronger, and strong emotion can cause them to revert to their instinctive nature. Further, the war itself made them realize just how in danger of going mad they really were. It would better explain Anankos' fear of going mad.

[Altrosa]

I distinctly recall Anna noting in one of her My Room quotes about being curious of the fact that there are only legends about Dragons in the world of Fates.

 

And Anankos WAS a first dragon. That was crux of his whole deal. His insanity was due to him being unimaginably old, but he refused to just die out since he just loved the Vallite people so much. He was the proginator of the country, afterall.

[maninbluejumpsuit]

If I had to pick one...

Scarlet- Only a usable unit for a meaningful amount of time in one of the 3 routes, and she's a corrinsexual on top of it all. Woulda've been interesting to see supports with her, Ryoma, and most of all, Xander.