Waiting vs. attacking question

[ApathyBeam]

Hey guys, I was wondering if someone could explain the "wait trick" further to me. So people have told me that waiting is better than attacking in certain circumstances. A kind, helpful person explained it to me this way:

Imagine you and them have 10 hp each and both can do 5 damage to each other. You attack first; you do 5 damage, take 5 damage, then they attack, doing five damage and you're dead. Let them attack first, they do 5 damage, you take 5 damage, then you attack, doing five damage and they're dead.

However, I never seem to notice the opportunities to use this. Is the wait trick only useful when you're both at low health (or have low def and are capable of dying) like in the example above? Or are there other instances where it's good to utilize? Can someone break it down so a dullard like me can understand? Thanks.

[Baldrick]

If an enemy has Nosferatu or is sitting on a throne, it may be better to let them attack first and finish them off in your turn.

In general, the bait and switch tactic is putting a tank at the edge of an enemy's range to lure them forward so you can kill them without aggroing other enemies in the area. It's less effective when a whole group is triggered at once, though.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

When you are about to initiate an attack, you'll first check if you can defeat them in one round of combat. Obviously, if you can, then waiting might just do more harm than good in some situations. However, if you can't ORKO (one round KO), you'll have to pay attention to the enemy's counterattack. Sometimes it might just be chip damage that doesn't matter, but against most bosses, you should be taking quite a hefty amount of damage in return. So you'll have to think one step further ahead, and do the math (newer games do it for you though): if you attack them now, and you're going to get hit back, does your unit have enough health after the round to survive one more hit from that boss? If the answer is no, you should just wait next to the boss, and make them attack first. That way, it just reverses the situation, such that you can kill the boss on your turn instead of the boss killing you on his turn.

Of course, you might consider a lot more things:

- Does the boss move?

- Can I just heal my unit back up so that the counterattack damage doesn't matter, and my healer won't be in danger for doing this?

- If my unit is in Guard Stance, will me attacking first lead to the Guard Gauge filling up to full (thus blocking the counterattack), or fill the Gauge to full after receiving the counterattack?

There might be even more.

[Ertrick36]

It's the general principle that you have to keep in mind, not specific examples and situations.  What your buddy is basically saying is that you want to play defensively.

Also, TL;DR, you can use this tactic to kill bosses, grind for experience, and deal with as many strong foes as possible.  It has great versatility if you know how to use it.

Instance One you can use baiting:

Spoiler

 

What you're wanting to do is deal as much damage to your enemies while taking as little damage as possible.  Generally speaking, letting enemies strike first will almost always let you do this, though in some cases, it can lead to death.  The reason for this is that the way combat works, whoever initiates the attack will always strike first.

So in the example you gave, let's say your unit has 15 HP instead, while the enemy still only has 10.  You could strike first and still survive, but you'll lose 10 HP because the attack flow will go your unit > your foe > your foe > your unit.  But, if you let him strike first and then attack him, you only lose 5 HP and are thus more able to fight other foes.  That'll be useful for if there's another enemy close by who can also deal 5 damage to your unit.

 

Instance Two:

Spoiler

Another way you could use it is you can send an ally within an enemy's attack range, then let others pick that foe off.  For example, you send an armor knight (known only as "knight" in localized FE's) to a cavalier's attack range.  They'll duke it out, your knight will hopefully not be dead... and if you have some other allies (especially ranged units), they can all gang up on this cavalier to kill him easily.

Instance Three:

Spoiler

 

It is also a way to kill bosses or help weaker units gain experience.  For bosses, it's known as dealing "chip damage" (or, for FE vets, it's part of what's known as "boss grinding") because bosses typically have lots of health and defense, and thus you'll need to have all your allies tanking hits and making strikes against them.  Letting the boss go first in these cases ensures that your units can retreat before potentially getting killed.

As for the experience thing, killing enemies always yields more experience than fighting them, but that task is difficult for weak units.  What I typically do to level Mozu up in her paralogue is I have stronger units hurt the Faceless really badly, then have Mozu strike and hopefully kill them.  However, sometimes she'll need two rounds with the enemy faceless, but she can hardly handle more than two hits from them at the beginning.  So in this case, hurting the faceless, then letting one of them attack Mozu, and then having Mozu land a killing blow (if she can) on the faceless is the only option for her survival and growth; otherwise, she runs and heals up.  She can gain up to about nine levels this way, from my experience.

 

Another key for this is that you also need to be thinking a few turns ahead, and taking every possibility and every enemy around you into consideration.  Generally speaking, enemies prioritize attacks like this: units within their range > units they can ORKO > units with the most HP.  That unit with 15 HP in the earlier example (under instance one) won't matter if there's a killable or more feeble unit within the enemy's attack range.

It may not seem like it from these small examples, but baiting's a very wide-ranged tactical principle.  Knowing how and when to bait is crucial in many Lunatic Conquest chapters.  Also, sorry if my rambling style doesn't really help you.

[joshcja]

None of that matters. Stop overthinking.

Stay or go for dummies:

Will you die if you don't wait? If the answer is no attack.

Will you die if you wait? If the anwer is yes attack.

This covers 99.99% of situations where this decision is relevant.

The advanced class:

Will I take more damage by attacking/waiting? Do I want to take more/less damage?

Edited February 15, 2017 by joshcja