Crafting a new weapons list (personal / fan thing)

[BANRYU]

So originally I had this as part of my Class List I'm making but I realized that a lot of discussion can go toward this as well, so... new topic lol. So this is the topic that relates to weapon types, magic effects, etc.

Some General Notes:

- Weapon types include sword, axe, lance, bow, dagger, staff, fire magic, thunder magic, wind magic, dark magic, and light magic.
- Tellius weapon triangles are used: Sword > Axe > Lance > Sword, Light > Dark > Anima > Light and Wind > Thunder > Fire > Wind within anima. Bows and Daggers are WTA-neutral.
- With the weapons for this class kit, I want to more or less emulate what Fates did while perhaps still making other weapons a bit more balanced / worth using (many considered Steel, Silver, and even weapons like Javelins/Hand Axes not worth using IIRC).
- Another idea I had is to make Steel and Silver weapons have no additional effects like they do in Fates, essentially making them steps up in Mt from Iron, and reintroduce the Blade/Greatlance/Poleax weapons as a series that would have the Steel penalties on them (-3 speed/-10 avo).
- Brave Weapons: IMO Heroes did it best, so Brave weapons will be identical to their Fates counterparts but the weapon's debuff effects will be Speed -5 instead of Def/Res -4. 
- Debating reusing the Weight system from earlier games based on units' strength or some such instead of having to deal with Constitution if I can avoid it. Another possible use of Weight might be to limit how many weapons units can carry around based on their class type, stats (with or without Con), etc. Whether or not to utilize Constitution is something I will need to figure out, though for now it's sort of on the backburner. The ideal goal would be to streamline the weapon system so there's not a lot of overthinking what weapon a unit needs before going into battle, and not a lot of perceived need to load units up with multiple weapons for as many situations as possible-- something I'd like to see streamlined more in the main games so far. 
- Specific stats/numbers for each of the weapons are highly WIP... For the time being, unless specified otherwise, assume weapons have the same attributes as their Fates counterparts, since that's the weapon system I mainly want to work off of. 
- I kinda want to make Silver weapons like... actually... good...?? not sure how to balance them though, my current thought is just making them ungodly expensive so you can literally only HAVE a few throughout the army haha. Just an idea I'm considering
- I would like 'effective' weapons to have more usability outside of JUST their intended target (will be especially important if I'm implementing weight mechanics that limit the number of weapons a unit can carry), so what I'll probably do is just slightly nerf their base Mt from Fates and give them regular effectiveness (instead of lesser) against other types of units. 
- I also really like the new weapons introduced in FE Heroes so expect to see those at some point haha. Assassin's bow, the various daggers, gem weapons (can replace the Hoshidan weapons that have a similar effect maybe, etc.)
- Siege Tomes: might use them, might not. Obv they're pretty imbalanced as implemented in the GBA games, so one idea I have to balance that out is that the wielder cannot move and attack in the same turn. As it is right now, I'm leaning toward taking the siege tomes and just putting new/different effects under the same name.
- Magic Weapons: I want to use more of these in more variety than just Thunder weapons, so gonna utilize stuff like the Runesword/Light Brand/Wind Edge from older games (in more variety than just swords though lol). Magic weapons are also included in the weapon triangle(s) of the respective magic type used-- for instance, a Levin Sword would have WTA advantage against Axes, Fire magic, and Light magic + disadvantage against Lances, Wind magic, and Dark magic. 
- list is WIP/ongoing for the time being so... blank spots / gaps / etc. will be a thing for a while probably haha ;;

Spoiler

Swords
- Iron: E/D-rank
- Steel: D/C-rank
- Silver: B/A-rank
- Brave: B/A-rank 
- Slim Sword: E/D-rank | same stats as Bronze save for the Crit Avo/no skills/crits effect; Crit 5 
- Killing Edge: probably same as Fates
- Armorslayer: C/D-rank | Mt 9 | Acc 70 | Avo -10 | effective against Armor
- Wyrmslayer: C-rank | Mt 8 | Acc 80 | Crit Avo -5 | effective against Wyverns + Dragons
- Ruby Sword: B-rank | Mt 9-10 | Acc 75 | WTA effects increased by 20% for both advantage and disadvantage (alternatively: same effect as Axe Splitter)
- Wind Edge: D-rank | magic weapon | sword equivalent of Hand Axe/Javelin with the same penalties; maybe deals damage based off Str? probably same stats as Wind tome
- Levin Sword: C-rank
- Storm Blade: B-rank | magic weapon | possibly magic
- other potential stuff: Wo Dao/Shamshir, Superior Edge, Lancerever, Blade weapons
- 

Lances
- Iron: E/D-rank
- Steel: D/C-rank
- Silver: B/A-rank
- Brave: B/A-rank 
- Slim Lance: E/D-rank | same stats as Bronze save for the Crit Avo/no skills/crits effect; Crit 5 
- Javelin: D-rank | same as Fates
- Short Spear: C-rank | ?
- Spear B-rank | ?
- Beastkiller: C/D-rank | Mt 8 | Acc 75-80 | Crit Avo -5 | effective against Horses/Beasts
- Heavy Spear: C-rank | Mt 11 | Acc 70 | effective against Armor (will either have Spd-3 and maybe more -Avo like Steel or have its Mt/Acc cut further)
- Sapphire Lance: B-rank | Mt 9-10 | Acc 75 | WTA effects increased by 20% for both advantage and disadvantage (alternatively: same effect as Swordcatcher)
- Holy Spear: C-rank | identical to Bolt Naginata in Fates, but deals Light magic damage instead of Thunder magic damage
- other potential stuff: Wing Spear (maybe effective against fliers?), Flame Lance, Axereaver, Greatlance weapons
- 

Axes
- Iron: E/D-rank
- Steel: D/C-rank
- Silver: B/A-rank
- Brave: B/A-rank 
- Hand Axe: D-rank | same as Fates
- Shortaxe: C-rank | ?
- Tomahawk: B-rank | ?
- Hatchet: E/D-Rank | 1-2 range, same stats as in Sacred Stones, also cannot crit or activate skills.
- Hammer: D/C-rank | Mt 10 | Acc 70 | Avo -10 | effective against Armor
- Halberd: C-rank | Mt 12 | Acc 80 | Avo -20 | effective against Horses/Beasts
- Emerald Axe: B-rank | Mt 9-10 | Acc 75 | WTA effects increased by 20% for both advantage and disadvantage (alternatively: same effect as Pike-Ruin Club)
- Rune Axe: C/B-rank | identical to Bolt Axe in Fates, but deals Dark magic damage instead of Thunder magic damage
- other potential stuff: Swordreaver, Battleaxe, something resembling the Great Club, Poleaxe weapons
- 

Bows
- I actually want to do something different with the bows and not use the Iron/Steel/Silver thing, but rather, stuff like the Shortbow, Hunter's Bow, Longbow, etc. for more realism.
- Also debating modifying bow mechanics so some (if not all) bows have their damage based on the user's Skill rather than Strength. For larger bows Str is probably still more fitting, so not sure right now.
- 
- 
- 
- 

Daggers
- Dunno if I'll be keeping the debuff effects on daggers from Fates since that seems a bit much at times... what I might do instead is give them a number of specialized effects, some of which will probably include the Fates debuffs.
- another weapon type I'm strongly debating making the damage Skill-based (seems the most fitting for this weapon type honestly).
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- 
- 

Staves
-
-
-
- 
- 

Wind Magic: weaker might; effective against fliers, ineffective against armor; either lower Wt (if utilized as a mechanic) or passive Spd boosts that make doubling easier than other magics.
- Wind
- Vortex
- Fimbulvetr
- Tornado
- Blizzard
- Excalibur
- 

Fire Magic: average might; effective against armor, ineffective against wyverns. Average, reliable performance all around. (so, the most like typical tomes I guess?)
- Fire
- Flametongue / Salamandra / something else made up IDK
- Elfire
- Meteor
- Volcanon / Bolganone
- Valflame
- 

Thunder Magic: higher might but lower accuracy; gains an accuracy boost against fliers and armored units.
- Thunder
-
- Mjolnir / x
- Bolting
- Thoron
- Mjolnir / x

Light Magic: weaker might and high accuracy; effective against monsters and provides AoE buffs to allies (Inspired by Fae's Light Breath in FE Heroes)
- Lightning: E-rank
- Shine
- Divine
- Purge
- Aura
- Ivaldi / Aureola / Naga
 

Dark Magic: higher might, but laden with drawbacks; high-risk, high-reward effects
- Flux: E-rank | Mt 6 | Acc 70 | likely high weight or possible speed penalty (probably something mild like -2)
- Ruin: D-rank | same as Awakening; will likely add the drawback of negative Crit Avo and possibly a speed penalty, maybe equivalent to Fates Steel
- Nosferatu: C-rank | otherwise same as Fates
- Waste: B/D-rank | same as Awakening if B-rank (with Fates Brave penalties and no ability to double when attacked) ; like Awakening but with weaker Mt if used for D-rank)
- Eclipse: B-rank | siege tome OR inflicts skill/accuracy penalty on hit at the cost of a stat penalty on the user (Fates silver penalty or -5 Spe + no doubling probably)
- Gleipnir (alt) : B-rank | identical effects to Iago's Tome in Fates (if used for S-rank instead, will likely be the same but with higher Mt and possibly greater penalties)
- Fenrir: A-rank | identical effects to Odin's Grimoire in Fates (probably with a higher Mt to compensate for the higher weapon rank)
- Ragnarok / Gespenst / Gleipnir: S-rank | various (only one will be used ofc)
- Dark has too many cool tomes OTL must... resist... showing favoritism.... hnnng

Further changes/unfinished stuff will be ongoing.

Any/all input is welcome!

Edited February 26, 2017 by BANRYU

[Dragrath]

Ohh you made the thread :D Yeah I had mentioned I had made my own list well it just so happens regarding magic (weapon list is unfinished) Look it over I tried to avoid touching legendary weapons 

as a Key** means it requires max rank in both magics(only one S is required due to the limit of one S rank but the others must be A really they are an experiment in hybrid magics taht felt too much of both schools :P). Also note the double SS rank that is totally a Endgame boss weapon idea) 

This is built off my idea for a Con/weight based inventory limit (instead of affecting attack speed) as well as the spells per map which are tenative expect them to go downwards 

Spoiler

 

Magic Type	Innate  effects per magic type Wind Fire and Thunder share the Anima tome level
All magic	Uses Per battle recharge after chapter.(legendary spells excluded) can be recharged using essence flask of respective type
Light	Effective damage versus Undead(3X). Very high hit and super low might
Wind(Anima)	2Xdamage for fliers unless stated otherwise
Fire(Anima)	?? High might spells enemy Res reduced during damage calculation by one fourth the enemies defense?? IDK…
Thunder(Anima)	Crit Modifier is times 4 not times 3 all tomes have innate crit
Dark	Unique effects per tome
Tome Name	Type	Rank	Range	Might	Hit	Crit	Weight	Uses	Effects
Light	Light	E	[1-2]	2	130	0	1	35*
Ellight	Light	D	[1-2]	3	120	0	2	30*
Arclight	Light	C	[1-2]	4	110	0	3	25*	-5 effective speed during enemy phase
Shine	Light	B	[1-2]	5	100	0	4	20*	Might halved if attacked during enemy phase
Moonlight	Light	B	[1-2]	4	90	0	5	15*	Recovers 20% of the Users HP after battle if user initiated combat
Divine	Light	A	[1-2]	8	75	0	5	10*	Divine Orbital Death Ray launched at the target Ignores Defensive skills of target
Resire	Light	A	[1-2]	4	80	0	7	5*	Heals user and adjacent allies at end of battle for up to half the amount of damage they inflicted(split evenly prioritizes allies)
Rexaura	Light	S	[1-2]	10	N/A	0	8	10*	Does Not Miss Defense +5
Purge	Light	C	[3-10]	8	90	0	20	1*	Can't double(-90 efective speed)
Wind	Wind	E	[1-2]	3	100	0	2	35*
Elwind	Wind	D	[1-2]	5	95	0	3	30*
Arcwind	Wind	C	[1-2]	7	90	0	5	25*	-5 effective speed during enemy phase
Tornado	Wind	B	[1-2]	9	85	0	6	20*	Might halved if attacked during enemy phase
Yurublizzard	Wind	B	[1-2]	7	90	0	7	15*	(skill)% chance to Slow target(reduces speed by 5 and move by 1)
Fimbulvetr	Wind	A	[1-2]	11	80	0	8	10*
Wingshear	Wind	A	[1-2]	7	90	0	2	5*	Extra Effective against fliers(X3 bonus) (deals an additional +30 crit if unit is a flier otherwise -20 avoid)
Rexcalibur	Wind	S	[1-2]	13	95	0	9	10*	-20 Avoid Max Range +1 during users turn  Luck +5
Blizzard	Wind	C	[3-10]	10	80	0	20	1*	Can't double(-90 effective speed)
Fire	Fire	E	[1-2]	4	90	0	3	35*
Elfire	Fire	D	[1-2]	6	85	0	5	30*
Arcfire	Fire	C	[1-2]	9	80	0	7	25*	-5 effective speed during enemy phase
Bolganone	Fire	B	[1-2]	12	75	0	9	20*	Might halved if attacked during enemy phase
Wildfire	Fire	B	[1-2]	11	70	0	10	15*	Effective against Beasts(3X)
Immolation	Fire	A	[1-2]	10	65	0	11	10*	If inititiated by user there is a (Skill-targetRes)%  chance to inflict Burn-burned units heal less effectivly(consumes 2 points of healing to heal one point)
Magma Pyre	Fire	A	[1-2]	13	75	0	12	5*	After battle Deals half the damage done to the target to all units in range(always leaves at least 1 HP)
Rexflame	Fire	S	[1-2]	14	90	0	13	10*	If the user innitiates (Once per player phase) deal additional damage to enemies near target(always leaves at least 1 HP) Speed+5
Meteor	Fire	C	[3-10]	15	70	0	20	1*	Can't double(-90 effective speed)
Thunder	Thunder	E	[1-2]	3	80	5	4	35*
Elthunder	Thunder	D	[1-2]	6	75	10	6	30*
Arcthunder	Thunder	C	[1-2]	7	70	15	9	25*	-5 effective speed during enemy phase
Thoron	Thunder	B	[1-2]	10	65	20	7	20*	Might halved if attacked during enemy phase
Conduction	Thunder	B	[1-2]	10	60	15	8	15*	Grants +50 hit/avoid and +20 crit if target is using tome
Thunderstorm	Thunder	A	[1-2]	9	70	30	10	10*	Effectivly it’s a killing edge variant that abuses the unique properties…
Electropulse	Thunder	A	[1-2]	11	70	20	12	5*	especially effective against Armored targets(3X)
Rexbolt	Thunder	S	[1-2]	12	85	25	14	10*	Crit Modifier X5 Skill +5
Bolting	Thunder	C	[3-10]	12	60	15	20	1*	Can't double(-90 effective speed)
Flux	Dark	E	[1-2]	[3,4,5,6,7]	[50,60,70,80,90]	[0,5,10,15,20]	8	35*	Might Hit and Crit Fluctuate at Random(Pick one of each all combos equally likely)
Ruin	Dark	D	[1-2]	3	60	N/A	9	30*	Always Crits if possible but lowers users crit avoid by 30
Jörmungandr	Dark	C	[1-2]	14	70	10	13	25*	-5 effective speed If caster  initiates combat lower the targets STR/MAG/DEF/RES/SKL/SPD/LUK by 4 -20 avoid
Waste	Dark	B	[1-2]	12	50	0	12	40*	Brave effect (always active) -20 avoid
Lunar Eclipse	Dark	B	[1-2]	0	60	10	14	15*	halves targets Res before damage calculation if caster initiates.
Hel	Dark	A	[1-2]	10	60	0	17	5*	-40 avoid Can't double. If the caster initiated and enemy has HP>1 then(0.25*Skill)&chance of reducing the foes HP to 1 at the end of combat.(Lethality check)
Nosferatu	Dark	A	[1-2]	7	70	0	14	10*	-20 avoid Restores user's HP equivalent to the amount of damage inflicted upon a selected enemy unit.
Hemopurge	Dark	S	[1-2]	18	75	10	16	10% of max HP per Use	Costs 10% of your max health to cast. Magic +5. Weight halved if HP<50%
Fenrir	Dark	C	[3-10]	13	70	0	20	1*	Can't double, no uses consumed if it kills its target(-90 efective speed)
Starburst	Light/Anima	S**	[1-2]	8	90	0	7	5*	Seals skills stat bonuses and weapon effects in battle
Cleansing wind	Light/Wind	S**	[1-2]	11	95	0	9	5*	Nulifies status while held. Res+5. Kills with this tome  cure any status abmormalities of user and ajacent allies
Sunfire	Light/Fire	S**	[1-2]	14	85	0	10	5*	Obliterates Undead(X5 damage) Magic +5
Piercing Ray	Light/Thunder	S**	[1-2]	9	75	30	11	5*	Ignores targets skills and stat modifications Speed +5
Grand Nosferatu	Light/Dark	S**	[1-2]	12	70	0	15	5*	-20 Avoid Restores user's HP equivalent to the amount of damage inflicted upon a selected enemy unit. Can't double restores small abount of HP to adjacent allies
Malific Wind	Wind/Dark	S**	[1-2]	5	80	0	11	5*	Inflicts Miasmic Frost status on target: Move-1, Luck,Speed,Res -2 per turn for 7 turns Stats slowly revert afterwords
Pyroclasm	Fire/Dark	S**	[1-2]	15	75	0	20	5*	Res reduction 0.5*Def during damage calculation.
Dark Thunder	Thunder/Dark	S**	[1-2]	4	45	N/A	14	20*	Brave effect, Always Crits if possible. Can't counter attack
Mire	Anima/Dark	S**	[3-10]	20	60	10	20	5*	Can't Double or counter attack, Holders move reduced to zero targets tile terrain becomes swamp fo 5 turns(-90 efective speed)
Cataclysm	Light/Anima/Dark	SS*	[1-3]	20	N/A	20	25	25% Max HP per Use	Always Hits and can't be blocked , Crit(X5) Mag, Skill, Speed, Def,Res+3. Heals up to 40% damage done and blocks status.(unobtainable Boss only)

 

So yeah... There was unfinished stuff below well what do you think? I tried hybrid ideas but they might even be too powerful for five uses all of them aren't supposed to be able to counter attack so yeah... Description overflow! 0_o

Edited February 27, 2017 by Dragrath

[Florete]

4 hours ago, BANRYU said:

- Debating reusing the Weight system from earlier games based on units' strength or some such instead of having to deal with Constitution if I can avoid it. Another possible use of Weight might be to limit how many weapons units can carry around based on their class type, stats (with or without Con), etc. Whether or not to utilize Constitution is something I will need to figure out, though for now it's sort of on the backburner. The ideal goal would be to streamline the weapon system so there's not a lot of overthinking what weapon a unit needs before going into battle, and not a lot of perceived need to load units up with multiple weapons for as many situations as possible-- something I'd like to see streamlined more in the main games so far.

 

You could always use the FE4 system and just have weight be a flat speed debuff. You'd just balance it appropriately so axes and lances aren't impossible to double with. Since you already want Brave weapons to be -5 speed, you could instead just give them 5 weight. This way at least ensures that specific units won't be ruined by low Con or something since everyone gets the same debuff no matter what, and that's typically the main issue people have with the system. I don't think the Str idea is a very good one, realistic as it may seem, because it kind of just compounds the issues of having low Str (lower damage also makes you less likely double).

The idea of limiting how many weapons/items a unit can carry based on weight values also sounds interesting, though, and is one I've never heard of before.

[NekoKnight]

I would definitely like Reverse Weapons and Axe Splitter/Pike-Ruin Club/Sword Catcher. The Ruby/Emerald/Sapphire weapons Is this FF7? are decent but I think Reverse weapons already do the job of enhancing WTA, albeit in reverse. 

[Dragrath]

Hmm I don't know much about heroes but I second the presence of reverse/reaver weapons for physical units as well as superior weapons (which could be given a penalty against other weapons to counter balance their effect)

I would also consider somewhat unnerving the semi ranged axes/swords/lances compared to Fates as that I think is a key part of why Knives/Shuriken were so broken. Let them use skills and crit again though the no doubling could stay for variations because it actually makes some sense

SO regarding bows if you leave out the metal tiering how will you rank them? Also glad with the reception so far towards the weight affecting inventory idea that has been my brainchild for a while now came out of trying to figure out how to do weight in a more fair manner though it has changed a lot since mainly becoming a solution towards excessively crowded inventories of my main characters :P.

[BANRYU]

Whoof I've got a lot to respond to, ahaha. 

Before I get too deep into responding to people, lemme ask y'all this: What do we think of the idea of having more attack based/offensive support staves, along the lines of Sleep/Berserk/Hexing Rod, as well as stuff like the Assault/Gravity/Drain/etc. staves introduced in Heroes? If they're suitably balanced with relatively low Mt, could that be excusable? Or would it be better to just stick to the standard healing and other more passive support effects?

I think the notion of staves actually being somewhat usable offensively (to the point where attacking a staff user might actually be something of a risk in terms of debuffs if not damage) is a pretty cool one, but at the same time I recognize that in a game like Heroes, this is more a symptom of the fact that each unit uses only one weapon type, and that it may not necessarily translate well to a format where units can use multiple weapon types. Still, the prospect of WTA-neutral magic attacks (albeit ones that are quite weak) seems interesting enough for me to consider it. 

8 hours ago, Dragrath said:

as a Key** means it requires max rank in both magics(only one S is required due to the limit of one S rank but the others must be A really they are an experiment in hybrid magics taht felt too much of both schools :P). Also note the double SS rank that is totally a Endgame boss weapon idea) 

This is built off my idea for a Con/weight based inventory limit (instead of affecting attack speed) as well as the spells per map which are tenative expect them to go downwards 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Magic Type	Innate  effects per magic type Wind Fire and Thunder share the Anima tome level
All magic	Uses Per battle recharge after chapter.(legendary spells excluded) can be recharged using essence flask of respective type
Light	Effective damage versus Undead(3X). Very high hit and super low might
Wind(Anima)	2Xdamage for fliers unless stated otherwise
Fire(Anima)	?? High might spells enemy Res reduced during damage calculation by one fourth the enemies defense?? IDK…
Thunder(Anima)	Crit Modifier is times 4 not times 3 all tomes have innate crit
Dark	Unique effects per tome
Tome Name	Type	Rank	Range	Might	Hit	Crit	Weight	Uses	Effects
Light	Light	E	[1-2]	2	130	0	1	35*
Ellight	Light	D	[1-2]	3	120	0	2	30*
Arclight	Light	C	[1-2]	4	110	0	3	25*	-5 effective speed during enemy phase
Shine	Light	B	[1-2]	5	100	0	4	20*	Might halved if attacked during enemy phase
Moonlight	Light	B	[1-2]	4	90	0	5	15*	Recovers 20% of the Users HP after battle if user initiated combat
Divine	Light	A	[1-2]	8	75	0	5	10*	Divine Orbital Death Ray launched at the target Ignores Defensive skills of target
Resire	Light	A	[1-2]	4	80	0	7	5*	Heals user and adjacent allies at end of battle for up to half the amount of damage they inflicted(split evenly prioritizes allies)
Rexaura	Light	S	[1-2]	10	N/A	0	8	10*	Does Not Miss Defense +5
Purge	Light	C	[3-10]	8	90	0	20	1*	Can't double(-90 efective speed)
Wind	Wind	E	[1-2]	3	100	0	2	35*
Elwind	Wind	D	[1-2]	5	95	0	3	30*
Arcwind	Wind	C	[1-2]	7	90	0	5	25*	-5 effective speed during enemy phase
Tornado	Wind	B	[1-2]	9	85	0	6	20*	Might halved if attacked during enemy phase
Yurublizzard	Wind	B	[1-2]	7	90	0	7	15*	(skill)% chance to Slow target(reduces speed by 5 and move by 1)
Fimbulvetr	Wind	A	[1-2]	11	80	0	8	10*
Wingshear	Wind	A	[1-2]	7	90	0	2	5*	Extra Effective against fliers(X3 bonus) (deals an additional +30 crit if unit is a flier otherwise -20 avoid)
Rexcalibur	Wind	S	[1-2]	13	95	0	9	10*	-20 Avoid Max Range +1 during users turn  Luck +5
Blizzard	Wind	C	[3-10]	10	80	0	20	1*	Can't double(-90 effective speed)
Fire	Fire	E	[1-2]	4	90	0	3	35*
Elfire	Fire	D	[1-2]	6	85	0	5	30*
Arcfire	Fire	C	[1-2]	9	80	0	7	25*	-5 effective speed during enemy phase
Bolganone	Fire	B	[1-2]	12	75	0	9	20*	Might halved if attacked during enemy phase
Wildfire	Fire	B	[1-2]	11	70	0	10	15*	Effective against Beasts(3X)
Immolation	Fire	A	[1-2]	10	65	0	11	10*	If inititiated by user there is a (Skill-targetRes)%  chance to inflict Burn-burned units heal less effectivly(consumes 2 points of healing to heal one point)
Magma Pyre	Fire	A	[1-2]	13	75	0	12	5*	After battle Deals half the damage done to the target to all units in range(always leaves at least 1 HP)
Rexflame	Fire	S	[1-2]	14	90	0	13	10*	If the user innitiates (Once per player phase) deal additional damage to enemies near target(always leaves at least 1 HP) Speed+5
Meteor	Fire	C	[3-10]	15	70	0	20	1*	Can't double(-90 effective speed)
Thunder	Thunder	E	[1-2]	3	80	5	4	35*
Elthunder	Thunder	D	[1-2]	6	75	10	6	30*
Arcthunder	Thunder	C	[1-2]	7	70	15	9	25*	-5 effective speed during enemy phase
Thoron	Thunder	B	[1-2]	10	65	20	7	20*	Might halved if attacked during enemy phase
Conduction	Thunder	B	[1-2]	10	60	15	8	15*	Grants +50 hit/avoid and +20 crit if target is using tome
Thunderstorm	Thunder	A	[1-2]	9	70	30	10	10*	Effectivly it’s a killing edge variant that abuses the unique properties…
Electropulse	Thunder	A	[1-2]	11	70	20	12	5*	especially effective against Armored targets(3X)
Rexbolt	Thunder	S	[1-2]	12	85	25	14	10*	Crit Modifier X5 Skill +5
Bolting	Thunder	C	[3-10]	12	60	15	20	1*	Can't double(-90 effective speed)
Flux	Dark	E	[1-2]	[3,4,5,6,7]	[50,60,70,80,90]	[0,5,10,15,20]	8	35*	Might Hit and Crit Fluctuate at Random(Pick one of each all combos equally likely)
Ruin	Dark	D	[1-2]	3	60	N/A	9	30*	Always Crits if possible but lowers users crit avoid by 30
Jörmungandr	Dark	C	[1-2]	14	70	10	13	25*	-5 effective speed If caster  initiates combat lower the targets STR/MAG/DEF/RES/SKL/SPD/LUK by 4 -20 avoid
Waste	Dark	B	[1-2]	12	50	0	12	40*	Brave effect (always active) -20 avoid
Lunar Eclipse	Dark	B	[1-2]	0	60	10	14	15*	halves targets Res before damage calculation if caster initiates.
Hel	Dark	A	[1-2]	10	60	0	17	5*	-40 avoid Can't double. If the caster initiated and enemy has HP>1 then(0.25*Skill)&chance of reducing the foes HP to 1 at the end of combat.(Lethality check)
Nosferatu	Dark	A	[1-2]	7	70	0	14	10*	-20 avoid Restores user's HP equivalent to the amount of damage inflicted upon a selected enemy unit.
Hemopurge	Dark	S	[1-2]	18	75	10	16	10% of max HP per Use	Costs 10% of your max health to cast. Magic +5. Weight halved if HP<50%
Fenrir	Dark	C	[3-10]	13	70	0	20	1*	Can't double, no uses consumed if it kills its target(-90 efective speed)
Starburst	Light/Anima	S**	[1-2]	8	90	0	7	5*	Seals skills stat bonuses and weapon effects in battle
Cleansing wind	Light/Wind	S**	[1-2]	11	95	0	9	5*	Nulifies status while held. Res+5. Kills with this tome  cure any status abmormalities of user and ajacent allies
Sunfire	Light/Fire	S**	[1-2]	14	85	0	10	5*	Obliterates Undead(X5 damage) Magic +5
Piercing Ray	Light/Thunder	S**	[1-2]	9	75	30	11	5*	Ignores targets skills and stat modifications Speed +5
Grand Nosferatu	Light/Dark	S**	[1-2]	12	70	0	15	5*	-20 Avoid Restores user's HP equivalent to the amount of damage inflicted upon a selected enemy unit. Can't double restores small abount of HP to adjacent allies
Malific Wind	Wind/Dark	S**	[1-2]	5	80	0	11	5*	Inflicts Miasmic Frost status on target: Move-1, Luck,Speed,Res -2 per turn for 7 turns Stats slowly revert afterwords
Pyroclasm	Fire/Dark	S**	[1-2]	15	75	0	20	5*	Res reduction 0.5*Def during damage calculation.
Dark Thunder	Thunder/Dark	S**	[1-2]	4	45	N/A	14	20*	Brave effect, Always Crits if possible. Can't counter attack
Mire	Anima/Dark	S**	[3-10]	20	60	10	20	5*	Can't Double or counter attack, Holders move reduced to zero targets tile terrain becomes swamp fo 5 turns(-90 efective speed)
Cataclysm	Light/Anima/Dark	SS*	[1-3]	20	N/A	20	25	25% Max HP per Use	Always Hits and can't be blocked , Crit(X5) Mag, Skill, Speed, Def,Res+3. Heals up to 40% damage done and blocks status.(unobtainable Boss only)

So yeah... There was unfinished stuff below well what do you think? I tried hybrid ideas but they might even be too powerful for five uses all of them aren't supposed to be able to counter attack so yeah... Description overflow! 0_o

Wow dude, that's quite extensive... not gonna lie, it's pretty impressive o3o I confess I wasn't able to read through the whole thing, but I skimmed it, and it looks like you've got some pretty good ideas there! In fact, if I may, I might even borrow some of those spell names/effects, if that's cool with you... I'd like to be able to have as much variety for all the magic types as I was able to think of for Dark, ahaha ;; Yeah like I said I wasn't able to go through the whole thing, but I'll definitely be perusing it more in the future for possible reference (again, as long as you're cool with that). Having it here in the thread is useful, not gonna lie, hehe. 

6 hours ago, Florete said:

You could always use the FE4 system and just have weight be a flat speed debuff. You'd just balance it appropriately so axes and lances aren't impossible to double with. Since you already want Brave weapons to be -5 speed, you could instead just give them 5 weight. This way at least ensures that specific units won't be ruined by low Con or something since everyone gets the same debuff no matter what, and that's typically the main issue people have with the system. I don't think the Str idea is a very good one, realistic as it may seem, because it kind of just compounds the issues of having low Str (lower damage also makes you less likely double).

The idea of limiting how many weapons/items a unit can carry based on weight values also sounds interesting, though, and is one I've never heard of before.

I MIGHT do something like that... TBH my idea was to allow units with high strength to bypass the weight penalty to some degree (though admittedly that makes calculation pretty complex, which isn't always a good thing), so having it be a flat debuff does sort of disallow possibilities like that. I also want to allow for some weapons to be easier to double with, IE Wind Magic and Slim weapons, and then weapons like Silver will probably have a relatively low penalty as well...

However, you make a good point for using Con over Str (where, IIRC, con is a fixed value whereas Str is dynamic and constantly grows), so that's definitely noted. 

Honestly the main thing I'm considering doing is just utilizing weight for carrying restrictions more so than on the individual weapons, and just having weapons have their own Fates-based restrictions... It's a pretty good system already IMO so might as well utilize it. And yeah, it's a cool idea, I think so too! xD Dragath also had that thought, haha. The notion of streamlining characters' inventories is one I'd like to see more of, since for the most part Fire Emblem seems to have no restrictions in place for piling as many weapons as a character can hold into their inventory-- not only is it not realistic, IMO it slows down combat by giving too many options before going into combat. I like the idea of planning for that kind of stuff before a battle based on what weapons best suit each character at the player's disposal, so that way the fights themselves go by a bit quicker. (I know that getting bogged down with weapon choices is a pitfall I always tend to fall into, as someone who overthinks things a lot, and I feel like it often slows me down when I play ;; )

6 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

I would definitely like Reverse Weapons and Axe Splitter/Pike-Ruin Club/Sword Catcher. The Ruby/Emerald/Sapphire weapons Is this FF7? are decent but I think Reverse weapons already do the job of enhancing WTA, albeit in reverse. 

Yeah, I dunno, I just liked the aesthetics of the gem weapons ahah xD As for the Reavers-- ...WAIT A SECOND. Reavers-- Reverse-- ....holy shit was that intentional?? How did I never realize this shit?? ???____??? ...WELL ANYWAY. Yeah, I'll probably put those in, borrow the Dual weapon attributes, etc...

5 hours ago, Dragrath said:

Hmm I don't know much about heroes but I second the presence of reverse/reaver weapons for physical units as well as superior weapons (which could be given a penalty against other weapons to counter balance their effect)

I would also consider somewhat unnerving the semi ranged axes/swords/lances compared to Fates as that I think is a key part of why Knives/Shuriken were so broken. Let them use skills and crit again though the no doubling could stay for variations because it actually makes some sense

SO regarding bows if you leave out the metal tiering how will you rank them? Also glad with the reception so far towards the weight affecting inventory idea that has been my brainchild for a while now came out of trying to figure out how to do weight in a more fair manner though it has changed a lot since mainly becoming a solution towards excessively crowded inventories of my main characters :P.

Honestly I felt that Javelins/Hand Axes and the like were pretty well balanced in Fates... They have about all the skill-based utility stripped from them, it's true, but I found them nonetheless useful for distance poking at times, and I felt it to be an adequate tradeoff for the job they needed to do. I'm debating whether or not to reuse the effects of the B-rank counterparts or just follow up with my idea for Iron/Steel/Silver weapons being essentially the same (in terms of their penalties or lack thereof, outside of the usual basic power/accuracy tradeoff) and make the D/C/B weapons just stronger versions of the last.

That's an idea that I'm growing increasingly more attached to the more I think about it, honestly, with the tradeoff being that they would get exponentially more expensive (to the point where, in a fangame setting, a player would only have enough money to buy maybe 3 silver weapons across the course of the game lol, so be otherwise forced to use what's dropped, which would maybe be like 1 of each type). I think it'd be kinda neat to modify the notion of resource management from weapon durability to allocating a limited number of weapons of each type to an army-- thus why I want to make weapons like Armorslayers, Wyrmslayers, etc. more usable for general purposes. 

...Pardon my rambling, I think that last paragraph is just me thinking onscreen ahaha ;; Sometimes it's the best way for me to do it... 

Ahem. Bows. Yes, well. My wife is suggesting keeping to the standard system of metal tiering, so I may just do that... but before I do I want to do some research on actual types of bows that might suffice as replacements for the generic metal names-- off the top of my head, I know of shortbows, longbows, greatbows, compound bows, composite bows, and so forth. I also think of the various types of bows visible in, for instance, the GBA sprites, where Archers have a typical hunting bow, Nomads/Nomad Troopers wield shortbows, Warriors have some kind of greatbow probably, etc. etc. If nothing else, I might just keep the standard Iron/Steel/Silver system and just introduce the other bows as additional potential effects if I can't figure out what the adequate replacements for each metal tier would be. But, like I said, I'll need to do some research when I have the time. 

[NekoKnight]

12 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

Yeah, I dunno, I just liked the aesthetics of the gem weapons ahah xD As for the Reavers-- ...WAIT A SECOND. Reavers-- Reverse-- ....holy shit was that intentional?? How did I never realize this shit?? ???____??? ...WELL ANYWAY. Yeah, I'll probably put those in, borrow the Dual weapon attributes, etc...

"Reverse" is a fan translation of "gyakuto", the localized weapons are called Dual ---, there isn't actually a connection between Reavers and Reverse, lol

[Dragrath]

@BANRYU  feel free to borrow names most of them came from The wiki anyway(though I did change what some did becuse I liked the name...)

9 hours ago, BANRYU said:

Honestly I felt that Javelins/Hand Axes and the like were pretty well balanced in Fates... They have about all the skill-based utility stripped from them, it's true, but I found them nonetheless useful for distance poking at times, and I felt it to be an adequate tradeoff for the job they needed to do. I'm debating whether or not to reuse the effects of the B-rank counterparts or just follow up with my idea for Iron/Steel/Silver weapons being essentially the same (in terms of their penalties or lack thereof, outside of the usual basic power/accuracy tradeoff) and make the D/C/B weapons just stronger versions of the last.

That's an idea that I'm growing increasingly more attached to the more I think about it, honestly, with the tradeoff being that they would get exponentially more expensive (to the point where, in a fangame setting, a player would only have enough money to buy maybe 3 silver weapons across the course of the game lol, so be otherwise forced to use what's dropped, which would maybe be like 1 of each type). I think it'd be kinda neat to modify the notion of resource management from weapon durability to allocating a limited number of weapons of each type to an army-- thus why I want to make weapons like Armorslayers, Wyrmslayers, etc. more usable for general purposes. 

Yeah I feel you The first tier ranged melee weapons in fates were fine this use came with the ridiculous "reinvention" of Tomahawks/Spears... It literally makes no sense to me and horribly bothered me. The crit/skill chance is  more because that has allowed game changing plays in past FE games especially Radiant Dawn I have had units die to that :P (Particularly Laguz how transformation ran out because someone crited an enemy they weren't supposed to allowing the enemy to kill a unit they otherwise wouldn't be able to reach)   :( ) 

As for keeping the standard weapons simple Yeah fates had some interesting ideas but it sounds good to keep simplicity where it is relevant with inventory no longer being a free for all you can make the decisions count all that more.

As for some ideas(actually more or less inspired by your own work as always feel free to use them) Most of them are retooled versions of existing weapons :P

"Glass"-Start chapter with stats of silver tier but quickly "dulls" reducing the weapons might by 1 after every(x uses) until it hits zero (where it would remain for the rest of the chapter)

"Slim weapons"- going by the speed aspect have you considered giving them a positive effective speed modifier? Also I feel there should be a "slim" equivalent for axes :P Mainly for symmetry among the physical weapon types...

Blades/Great Lances/Pole Axe etc.-stronger than metal counter part but with built in speed penalties ;) felt natural after your mentioning using the fates effective speed penalties to simulate weight. Plus the higher weight would matter more with a weight limited inventory. Ideally the go to weapon for the Armored Knight that had no hope of doubling the foe and has Con to spare.

-Blessed Weapons-I have to admit I really like these ones the healing aspect is nice and the anti monster part is good too if they appear. Perhaps they could act akin to the spell moonlight?

-Devil Weapons-As stronger than silver but either with a health cost or a recoil on miss

Now lastly regarding magic weapons ;) Here is what I came up with for handling them Note the presence in the magic triangle in addition to the physical one(Lances Axes Bows Knives would work the same  way) Also as with all magic in my variation the charges are per map like normal spells (unless a "element" essence were to be used.

Spoiler

Levin Sword	Sword	B	11	75	15	[1-2]	9	15*	Magic Damage, Counts as both Sword and Thunder Magic, Effective Against Armored Units
Levin Sword	Sword	B	1	70	---	1	9	N/A	Drained Levin Sword use thunder essence to recharge. Can't Crit or activate skills while drained.
Flame Edge	Sword	B	12	80	0	[1-2]	9	15*	Magic Damage, Counts as both Sword and Fire magic, effective against beasts/Cavalry
Flame Edge	Sword	B	1	70	---	1	9	N/A	Drained Flame Edge use  fire essence to recharge. Can't Crit or activate skills while drained.
Sonic Sword	Sword	B	10	90	0	[1-2]	9	15*	Magic Damage  Counts as both Sword and Wind Magic Effective against Flying Units
Sonic Sword	Sword	B	1	70	---	1	9	N/A	Drained Sonic Sword use wind essence to recharge. Can't Crit or activate skills while drained.
Light Brand	Sword	A	9	100	0	[1-2]	9	15*	Magic Damage, Counts as both sword and Light Magic, Effective against Undead, Ignores defensive skills of the target
Light Brand	Sword	A	1	70	---	1	9	N/A	Drained Light Brand use light essence to recharge. Can't Crit or activate skills while drained.
Rune Sword	Sword	A	15	70	0	[1-2]	13	10*	Magic damage, Counts as both Sword and Dark Magic Heals user for half damage
Rune Sword	Sword	A	1	70	---	1	13	N/A	Drained Rune Sword use dark essence to recharge. Can't Crit or activate skills while drained.

Stats are a bit arbitrary but should get the point across

[BANRYU]

Eyyy I dunno if anyone still cares about this, but I've continued work on it and consolidated! Full doc with class list and weapon list can be found here: 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BULlK1skm1Kk9iFNoz1zXckNErHom2OrD3iEaiA9mjI/edit