What are the Best and Worst units in Conquest

[Deltre]

3 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I kinda disagree on Silas's personal - I find it hard to get any real mileage out of when far more often than not, I want Corrin healthy and in the thick of the action.

If you use a Dragonstone, Corrin tends to be stupidly beefy unless you choose -Def or -HP or something, so it's pretty easy to get him below half while keeping her (let's be real you want Jakob 1 if we're talking "best units") in the thick of things. The only time I find it to be no more than "okay" is when Silas gets a bit speed screwed, which can happen pretty easily mind you. If he's not, then it's effectively +6 to his damage output which is pretty insane. The defensive boost is still enough to turn 2HKOs into 3HKOs, 3HKOS into 4HKOS and so on. Now, this ability does fall off later in the game where keeping Corrin too low becomes much riskier, but until Chapter 16 or so, it's amazing, doubly so if Silas decides to play along. 

3 hours ago, joshcja said:

I still do not get Jakobdin and Ninja Corn. Tonics are very cheap.

Edit: Odin is an early male, Odin is good.

Edit again: VoF is legit overpowered.

Paladin!Jakob is so good that he literally sets the pace you complete a chapter simply by existing. If Jakob can reach the boss in 5 turns, then you can rest assured that you can beat the map in 5 turns. Chapter 8 is a great example of this. He also makes Corrin stupidly hard to kill in the early game if for whatever reason she needs the help. Now, he's only particularly broken until about the point you get Xander, but after that he's still able to hold his own until the very late game, and has utility in Beastslayers which automatically make him decent for the maps where that is relevant. Chapter 20 would be a good example of extra Beastslayers coming in handy, assuming you don't just bumrush Fuuga right off the bat. 

Ninja!Corrin is more preference, but the +1 Mov pairup is great and it's the only class that can both use the Yato and has access to reliable 1-2 Range all the while. It's pretty alright, and the 1-2 range really helps in Conquest where almost no one who isn't a mage or Xander can do that and actually kill things. 

Edit: To be clear, I'm talking about Lunatic Mode here

Edited March 3, 2017 by Deltre

[Extrasolar]

16 minutes ago, joshcja said:

More people agreeing means more people agreeing, it has nothing to do with the correctness of an opinion.

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Keaton lacks every single positive aspect you could ever want in a unit aside from stats. His stats are lower than every other unit at the time of his join. Keaton is bar none the worst unit in CQ. Calling Keaton anything above absolute dogshit is completely inaccurate.

Odin has every positive quality you could ever want in a unit outside of base stats. His stats at Leo's join are comparable to Leo in most games. If you want to call Odin mediocre in "your" play... frankly if you're playing below lunatic he can be. Calling him bad is strictly inaccurate, even if he never see's combat because fickifIknowwhy Odin contributes an enormous amount via his S/A+/Kid supports handing out the best EP skillset in the game.

There's an opinion, and then there's what the growths and stats themselves say, especially when most people arrive at an overall consensus. I mean, Matthis is widely agreed upon to be the worst unit in Shadow Dragon, because he has absolutely horrible bases and growths. Does that mean he still can't be used, or can't be useful in some situations, especially if one invests items within him? Sure, but training him up is much more of a hassle, and you'll get less good results, than training up Ogma, for example. Thus, Matthis is objectively a bad unit, while Ogma is an objectively good unit, because when trained, he most often turns out stronger than average, without you having to sink items or anything in him.

There are opinions - i.e., "[x] has turned out well for me," or "I use [x] in this situation with this setup," and there's nothing wrong with that, but that doesn't change the fact that [x] is objectively a weak unit, especially when other units turn out much better for much less effort.  I mean, most people agree that Haar and Shinon are among the best units in Radiant Dawn, and that's because they're both extremely strong from the start, while Leonardo is looked upon as the worst sniper in the game. Does that mean Leonardo is useless, or can't be usable without some effort? No. But again, he's considered a bad unit because you have to put in a ton of effort to make him work, just like you have to do with Odin, whereas Shinon and Haar are pretty much free tickets to success. Those two are good units.

When most people agree that Odin is a mediocre unit, it most likely means, well, that he's a mediocre unit.

As for Keaton...uh, "aside from stats..." You do realize that is mostly what a unit is judged on right? Keaton's stats are great - high strength, high defense, high hp, decent enough speed... He wrecks face in gameplay without having to eat up items to be usable. Again, the question isn't "which units give good supports/get good kids/give good skillsets," or "which units can be good with setup." Because that's what you're treating it as. Again, not saying Odin is useless, but he's definitely not a great unit.

 

Edited March 3, 2017 by Extrasolar

[Baldrick]

How is Odin supposed to solo Lunatic Conquest if he's only a good parent, anyway? Does he summon a level 99 Ophelia from the future to slay his enemies?

Edited March 3, 2017 by Baldrick

[Altrosa]

No, I'm pretty sure Odin's limitations come more down to needing to heartseal to put astra/vantage on him through his sub-class of samurai and investing in the forge to abuse the crit boost from his personal skill.

While it can make him a crit monster, that's too much investment in some cases with CQ's resource struggles, and with Luck being his key growth despite otherwise decent stats, he can end up, as stated, "mediocre."

Nyx is probably the glassiest unit in the game. Full stop. Breath on her wrong and she can die, despite her very high mag growth.

Marrying Odin to the right wife can give Ophelia growths more suited for the Dark Mage job, and her personal is easier to utilize.

Basically, Leo and Elise outclass them by a huge margin as units as their growths fit their default classes on top of being more versatile royal units. Just level them for your mage needs.

 

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Deltre said:

If you use a Dragonstone, Corrin tends to be stupidly beefy unless you choose -Def or -HP or something, so it's pretty easy to get him below half while keeping her (let's be real you want Jakob 1 if we're talking "best units") in the thick of things. The only time I find it to be no more than "okay" is when Silas gets a bit speed screwed, which can happen pretty easily mind you. If he's not, then it's effectively +6 to his damage output which is pretty insane. The defensive boost is still enough to turn 2HKOs into 3HKOs, 3HKOS into 4HKOS and so on. Now, this ability does fall off later in the game where keeping Corrin too low becomes much riskier, but until Chapter 16 or so, it's amazing, doubly so if Silas decides to play along. 

Erm, what's with the sudden pronoun change? Anyways, I find Silas pretty iffy as a unit, and an impractical personal skill doesn't do his already flimsy case any favours. Personally, I've been better served by Peri or his daughter Sophie.

[Deltre]

4 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Erm, what's with the sudden pronoun change? Anyways, I find Silas pretty iffy as a unit, and an impractical personal skill doesn't do his already flimsy case any favours. Personally, I've been better served by Peri or his daughter Sophie.

Lack of proofreading :p

Silas's skill isn't impractical in the slightest though. Again, even on Lunatic Corrin is capable of taking a hit or two even below half health with a Dragonstone, and most certainly at least one even without provided you've used tonics. +5 HP + 2 DEF also makes it quite easy to trigger Vow of Friendship, so activating it is really, really simple if you know how to do it. If Silas's skill is impractical then I'm afraid Peri's is outright useless since she can't even make use of it on Player Phase without Azura, and can't take hits on enemy phase well enough for it to matter. The exception would be Magi, but she can't retaliate on those reliably so it's kind of a moot point. 

If we're strictly talking about the best of the best then Silas is hands down the best cavalier in the game since he's got the better personal and much better availability. Personal biases aside (since I actually prefer Sophie), he's already rolling by the time Peri or Sophie show up (and Sophie will only exist if you're using Silas) so there's really almost never a time that Silas won't be better unless you deliberately choose not to use him. He's a bit prone to speed screwage in my experience, but if that happens it's really not a big deal since of we're only talking about the best, and not "just for fun", his main role is to bridge the gap between Jakob and Xander stomping everything and he'll always be able to do that even if his growths don't play along. 

[Dark Holy Elf]

You know who Peri can take hits better than? Corrin who is below half HP.

I definitely Vow of Friendship is overrated. Even when it's active, +3 str/def is cool to be sure but it doesn't really fix Silas's bigger problem stats anyway, namely his iffy speed and low res. To say nothing of the drawbacks of keeping it active. I'll certainly take Peri's near-guaranteed ORKO of problem opponents post-Azura over that.

[Shadow Mir]

9 hours ago, Deltre said:

Lack of proofreading :p

Silas's skill isn't impractical in the slightest though. Again, even on Lunatic Corrin is capable of taking a hit or two even below half health with a Dragonstone, and most certainly at least one even without provided you've used tonics. +5 HP + 2 DEF also makes it quite easy to trigger Vow of Friendship, so activating it is really, really simple if you know how to do it. If Silas's skill is impractical then I'm afraid Peri's is outright useless since she can't even make use of it on Player Phase without Azura, and can't take hits on enemy phase well enough for it to matter. The exception would be Magi, but she can't retaliate on those reliably so it's kind of a moot point. 

If we're strictly talking about the best of the best then Silas is hands down the best cavalier in the game since he's got the better personal and much better availability. Personal biases aside (since I actually prefer Sophie), he's already rolling by the time Peri or Sophie show up (and Sophie will only exist if you're using Silas) so there's really almost never a time that Silas won't be better unless you deliberately choose not to use him. He's a bit prone to speed screwage in my experience, but if that happens it's really not a big deal since of we're only talking about the best, and not "just for fun", his main role is to bridge the gap between Jakob and Xander stomping everything and he'll always be able to do that even if his growths don't play along. 

I still think Silas doesn't hold a candle to his daughter or Peri because of his unimpressive speed, and needing Corrin to have one foot in the grave for his personal to work is a HUGE drawback. Also, I thought he was better off in Birthright.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Altrosa]

I agree with Silas. If Vow of Friendship is up, you've made some mistakes, but I think the situational nature of personals renders many of them moot in the long haul. Even if they fit their character.

 

Charlotte's one of my fav units as she makes a great glass cannon,  but her personal get's little traction as most enemy units are males.

Although, I found it funny to learn that she's popularly relegated to Xander's pair-up as she boosts all the right stats for him and is a good mother for Siegbert. So, Charlotte just rides around with Xander and he steamrolls the junk you don't feel like dealing with.

Good stuff.

[ruruo]

Don't forget to catch Haitaka. 'Taka's got some neat growths, access to Seal Def/Spd, Rend Heaven and later, Lancefaire. Not to mention Rally Def for early game. Really easy to get a good unit out of him. 

I'm also in the minority who prefer archer!Mozu to reclassing Jakob(1). She's easy to level up, and I think she's a better long term investment, being excellent throughout the entirety of the game. (Tried pally!Jakob, as didn't find him to be as good as hyped. He seem to slag off later in game, especially when there's Xander and Silas around. Jakob is still alright for pair up bonuses though I guess)

Laslow is a decent Ninja, think Saizo better str, and no magic. 

I also prefer Leo as a Sorcerer to his default Dark Knight, since his Dark Knight stats are too balanced imo. He can get Vantage and Astra through A+ with Odin (though 5 levels as a Swordmaster sucks).

 

 

Edited March 3, 2017 by komasa

[joshcja]

I like how the newest person to play on CQ lunatic is the only one who got the Jakobdin joke. VoF is really busted.

Pretty much every unit can be used without cost outside of thuper obvious weapon purchases, however to get the full bang for your buck almost every gen 1 unit wants 2 seals and a stacked booster to run at their full potential (some only want 1, others want 4 ffs, others are named keaton and have no viable reclass). Ex: Dracoxander is much better than his pony self for 19-turn 2 of ch23,he needs every single talisman in the game to properly do his damn job, and he effectively consumed 2 deployment slots in his common usage every map while chewing up either a speedwing or 1800 in speed tonics. Early males have a tendency to build another unit that comes strong as fuck without invest and brings goodies to pay back the cost of setting up their father (sometimes at a ludicrous profit). This achieves the highest exp compression and cost efficiency possible in casual and efficiency play (also known as fast casual). This can snowball hard enough that Xander looks horribly weak on ch16.

That said the seals you want are very rarely heart seals (Ex: Jakob is better as a heavily drugged butler on 7-8, and can partner seal directly going into ch9 with some good treehouse rolls and then roll cav skills later off of Silias)

@ Extrasolar I stopped reading your post after the third logical fallacy. You are horribly misinformed. Please continue to attempt to convince me that a 1-1 range infantry unit is gr8 and infinite nos/LOD vantage is anything less than broken with your wonderful GBA arguments in PM's. 

Odin falls off after he ORKO's Takumi, Leo can also do this (Later and at a higher cost) and does exactly one more damage per tick of lightning but has a lower chance of rolling the necessary crit/proc (7x% final vs odins 9x%) because magic is the least relevant stat for a mage not named Ophelia/Bolt Axe/Sbow. The game falls off when you recruit his daughter. Lets not try to compare the unit that solo's ch28 LCQ (in certain minmaxed builds) to mere mortals like her father and uuuh the rest of the cast.

SIlias has an A+ support that gives speed res, and 1-2 range. I'm sure you'll find a use for the 40 effective def, 30 effective res. 50-60+weapon atk effective str, solbreaker MN.

Edited March 3, 2017 by joshcja

[Extrasolar]

18 minutes ago, joshcja said:

@ Extrasolar I stopped reading your post after the third logical fallacy. You are horribly misinformed. Please continue to attempt to convince me that a 1-1 range infantry unit is gr8 and infinite nos/LOD vantage is anything less than broken with your wonderful GBA arguments in PM's. 

Odin falls off after he ORKO's Takumi. The game falls off when you recruit his daughter. Lets not try to compare the unit that solo's ch28 LCQ (in certain minmaxed builds) to mere mortals like her father and uuuh the rest of the cast.

SIlias has an A+ support that gives speed res, and 1-2 range. I'm sure you'll find a use for the 40 effective def, 30 effective res. 50-60+weapon atk effective str, solbreaker MN.

Lol. Okay, dude. I mean, when the majority of people in the thread are telling you that you are the wrong one, and you just ragequit the conversation, it says a lot. Keep living in your own world, I suppose

You can keep trying to laud Odin as a great unit all you want. Doesn't change the facts that he's not, I'm afraid. And Keaton is a good unit, as most people say. You're completely missing the point anyway, and you just don't seem to get it. Support bonuses does not a good unit make. Shoving a bunch of items down a unit to make it any way usable does not a good unit make.

Having 1 range doesn't equal a bad unit, home skillet. Keaton is a far more useful unit than Odin without half of the setup and resource dumping that Odin requires to be anything other than subpar.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Extrasolar

[joshcja]

Nice snipe on the edit. Go to pm's Mr Credulous Craig and leave the nice new persons thread free of YAKOS (Yet another Keaton Odin Slapfight). Or just dig through the backlog. Seriously I'm tired of point by point proving everything people say on this neverending ride wrong, wrong, and dead wrong. It's been a year ffs.

Here's a sample of good logic for ya: Stats matter at benchmarks provided they reach benchmarks on pace. Stats do not matter if you cannot apply them. Guess Keatons batting average on this and we'll see how good you are at basic addition and the decimal system.

Edited March 3, 2017 by joshcja

[Extrasolar]

25 minutes ago, joshcja said:

Nice snipe on the edit. Go to pm's Mr Credulous Craig and leave the nice new persons thread free of YAKOS (Yet another Keaton Odin Slapfight)

Here's a sample for ya: Stats matter at benchmarks provided they reach benchmarks on pace. Stats do not matter if you cannot apply them.

Uh. No.

Stats matter because dumping extremely limited resources into a unit with supbar stats when there's perfectly usable units with great stats that you don't have to funnel money and items into is a hassle. Odin is the former. Keaton (for example) is the latter.

Stats matter because, you know, you need them to kill enemies. You apply them every time you press the confirm button to kill a unit, because that's how the majority of the game works. Because if your unit has mediocre stats, they won't be killing anything fast or easy, and are liable to get killed themselves.

You can laud support boosts and child boosts all day, but at the end of the day, Odin himself (not the supports he gives, not the children he has, but the man himself), is a mediocre unit. Does he provide some perks? Sure. Can he be usable with a ton of effort and resource dumping? Sure. But he's not a good unit, especially in comparison to other units. Simple. Easy.

EDIT: Conquest is a game mode which pushes units like Odin into the dust. You need units that excel rather than barely scrape by.

Odin will fail to do much damage to anything with his mediocre attacking stats, fail to double anything with his mediocre speed, not really be able to take a hit with his mediocre defense, and just be plain mediocre all around by midgame. Leo, Ophelia and Izana are leagues ahead of him in usability without much resource dumping or shifting this support or that support around. Again, only so much experience, money, and items to go around on Conquest. Why waste them on trying to make Odin usable when you could be buffing already good characters?

Keaton, on the other hand, with his enormous strength and defense, one-round kills things more often than not, has enough speed to avoid being doubled by most enemies, and has enough defense that he takes little damage from physical-attacking units. His skill growth is good enough that he gets critical hits fairly often as well. Now, he can be worn down through his poor resistance, but he also has a skill which heals 40% of his HP every other turn.

One of these sounds objectively better than the other.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Extrasolar

[Shadow Mir]

9 hours ago, Altrosa said:

I agree with Silas. If Vow of Friendship is up, you've made some mistakes, but I think the situational nature of personals renders many of them moot in the long haul. Even if they fit their character.

 

Charlotte's one of my fav units as she makes a great glass cannon,  but her personal get's little traction as most enemy units are males.

Although, I found it funny to learn that she's popularly relegated to Xander's pair-up as she boosts all the right stats for him and is a good mother for Siegbert. So, Charlotte just rides around with Xander and he steamrolls the junk you don't feel like dealing with.

Good stuff.

Being situational is one thing, but being impractical (like Silas') or useless (like Charlotte's or Arthur's) is something else entirely.

[Deltre]

I'm actually really surprised people are arguing that Peri>Silas if we're talking best of the best. She's just not under any condition unless 1) Silas is dead or 2) you didn't use Silas. I'm really, really, surprised that people are saying Corrin under 50% can't take a hit which is factually wrong. Not even trying to be an ass here, that statement is just incorrect, no two ways about it. Again, this is not a late game skill. 6 HP of Damage and 3 Defense in the early-mid game is really broken. Go ahead and do the math on the early game Lunatic and count how many times you say "Gee, if only I did a little more/took a little less." 6 HP of Damage (best case) and 3 Defense in the late game is a nice bonus at best. Even without actually strategizing around the fact that this skill exists, it's still really easy to use it by

1) Moving Silas before you heal Corrin 

2) Doing the math so that Corrin won't be killed by all the enemies that attack him, and heal her up next turn before she needs the health but after Silas has moved 

or

3) Attack with Corrin so she gets below half, then use Silas. It's really that easy.

Compare that to Peri, which while certainly easy to do without thinking much, means that you have to use Azura's turn on Peri. If you're only using the best units, then Azura will always have someone better to dance for unless you made a mistake somewhere along the way. 

Not understanding how to use Silas is fine but at the end of the day he's still the best objectively and there's really no arguing around that. He has the best availability, the best personal, and the easiest time getting experience out of your other options. Not to mention the fact that he doesn't even cost a deployment slot until Chapter 11 (Chapter 10 but let's be real you'll bring him even if you're not using him long term). I didn't say that any other non-Xander ponies are unusable, just harder to use which can't be argued around. If I've overlooked something with that, feel free to correct me. Just saying that he isn't good isn't really an argument though.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Deltre

[joshcja]

26 minutes ago, Deltre said:

I'm actually really surprised people are arguing that Peri>Silas if we're talking best of the best. She's just not under any condition unless 1) Silas is dead or 2) you didn't use Silas. I'm really, really, surprised that people are saying Corrin under 50% can't take a hit which is factually wrong. Not even trying to be an ass here, that statement is just incorrect, no two ways about it. Again, this is not a late game skill. 6 HP of Damage and 3 Defense in the early-mid game is really broken. Go ahead and do the math on the early game Lunatic and count how many times you say "Gee, if only I did a little more/took a little less." 6 HP of Damage (best case) and 3 Defense in the late game is a nice bonus at best. Even without actually strategizing around the fact that this skill exists, it's still really easy to use it by

1) Moving Silas before you heal Corrin 

2) Doing the math so that Corrin won't be killed by all the enemies that attack him, and heal her up next turn before she needs the health but after Silas has moved 

or

3) Attack with Corrin so she gets below half, then use Silas. It's really that easy.

Compare that to Peri, which while certainly easy to do without thinking much, means that you have to use Azura's turn on Peri. If you're only using the best units, then Azura will always have someone better to dance for unless you made a mistake somewhere along the way. 

Not understanding how to use Silas is fine but at the end of the day he's still the best objectively and there's really no arguing around that. He has the best availability, the best personal, and the easiest time getting experience out of your other options. Not to mention the fact that he doesn't even cost a deployment slot until Chapter 11 (Chapter 10 but let's be real you'll bring him even if you're not using him long term). I didn't say that any other non-Xander ponies are unusable, just harder to use which can't be argued around.

Full marks, second most entertaining and probably the most informative post in the thread.

Edited March 3, 2017 by joshcja

[Shadow Mir]

4 minutes ago, Deltre said:

I'm actually really surprised people are arguing that Peri>Silas if we're talking best of the best. She's just not under any condition unless 1) Silas is dead or 2) you didn't use Silas. I'm really, really, surprised that people are saying Corrin under 50% can't take a hit which is factually wrong. Not even trying to be an ass here, that statement is just incorrect, no two ways about it. Again, this is not a late game skill. 6 HP of Damage and 3 Defense in the early-mid game is really broken. Go ahead and do the math on the early game Lunatic and count how many times you say "Gee, if only I did a little more/took a little less." 6 HP of Damage (best case) and 3 Defense in the late game is a nice bonus at best. Even without actually strategizing around the fact that this skill exists, it's still really easy to use it by

1) Moving Silas before you heal Corrin 

2) Doing the math so that Corrin won't be killed by all the enemies that attack him, and heal her up next turn before she needs the health but after Silas has moved 

or

3) Attack with Corrin so she gets below half, then use Silas. It's really that easy.

Compare that to Peri, which while certainly easy to do without thinking much, means that you have to use Azura's turn on Peri. If you're only using the best units, then Azura will always have someone better to dance for unless you made a mistake somewhere along the way. 

Not understanding how to use Silas is fine but at the end of the day he's still the best objectively and there's really no arguing around that. He has the best availability, the best personal, and the easiest time getting experience out of your other options. Not to mention the fact that he doesn't even cost a deployment slot until Chapter 11 (Chapter 10 but let's be real you'll bring him even if you're not using him long term). I didn't say that any other non-Xander ponies are unusable, just harder to use which can't be argued around.

Not sure where you're getting 6 damage from - this IS the same Silas who has ass for a speed base, and thus I wouldn't expect him to double, like, ever, unless he was attacking an enemy that was using a hand axe, etc.

[joshcja]

Elbow room.

Or if you want to double for +12-+16 damage, spend 150 gold.

Edit: Silias can actually double on Ch7 with a smuggled tonic and gaurd stance if memory serves. It's mostly irrelevant since VoF attack stance one shots everything.

Edited March 3, 2017 by joshcja

[Deltre]

2 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Not sure where you're getting 6 damage from - this IS the same Silas who has ass for a speed base, and thus I wouldn't expect him to double, like, ever, unless he was attacking an enemy that was using a hand axe, etc.

He doubles everything he needs to through Chapter 10 with a Speed Tonic on Lunatic. It's really a case of "the developer thought of that" to the highest degree.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Deltre

[ruruo]

Agreed. Peri, imo isn't bulky enough, I don't trust her in EP even with her personal. Thing with Silas, that even when his speed might not start great, but it's good enough, at the bare minimum not to get doubled, and imo that's enough. And as people said, nothing can't be fixed with tonics+meals (+rally speed). 

In terms of Keaton, I think he's very good on the hard run, and good with Camilla, but I'm glad I didn't include him on my Lunatic run. There's more than a few times where there's the odd Bolt Naginata or mage(s) mixed in with physical units. Plus, like many other good bulky units, he's overshadowed by Xander who's also got that 2-range and high movement. 

[Extrasolar]

1 hour ago, komasa said:

Agreed. Peri, imo isn't bulky enough, I don't trust her in EP even with her personal. Thing with Silas, that even when his speed might not start great, but it's good enough, at the bare minimum not to get doubled, and imo that's enough. And as people said, nothing can't be fixed with tonics+meals (+rally speed). 

In terms of Keaton, I think he's very good on the hard run, and good with Camilla, but I'm glad I didn't include him on my Lunatic run. There's more than a few times where there's the odd Bolt Naginata or mage(s) mixed in with physical units. Plus, like many other good bulky units, he's overshadowed by Xander who's also got that 2-range and high movement. 

Silas is reliable in my opinion, but definitely not one of the better units in Conquest. He's a very bog-standard cavalier: He won't necessarily struggle, but he's also not anything special, with average/decent stats across the board, but no real strengths. I think the experience used to train him can be better used on a more useful unit, personally.

At the very least, Keaton is better at tanking mages than Xander; despite having bad resistance, it's not quite as paper as Xander's. Not to mention, his better speed means that he doubles some of the time, whereas Xander doubling is a very rare event (not that he needs to most of the time, and both are good units in my book). And he's got Better Odds, while Xander doesn't have a comparable healing skill, meaning that you won't really have to waste staff uses on Keaton unless it's a real emergency.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Extrasolar

[Shadow Mir]

46 minutes ago, Deltre said:

He doubles everything he needs to through Chapter 10 with a Speed Tonic on Lunatic. It's really a case of "the developer thought of that" to the highest degree.

I don't know about that, because you have no statistical backing. Also, getting back to his personal, I'd rather not have to twist and bend my game to make Silas's personal skill seem "useful". As for Silas himself, I personally found him more worthwhile on Birthright.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Deltre]

22 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I don't know about that, because you have no statistical backing. Also, getting back to his personal, I'd rather not have to twist and bend my game to make Silas's personal skill seem "useful". As for Silas himself, I personally found him more worthwhile on Birthright.

You're being absolutely ridiculous. Everything you've typed can be construed as "I don't like him" which is fine, but doesn't have any bearing on statistical fact. If you're really going to make me go through the game and point out how many instances Silas is capable of doubling, then I really don't know what to tell you other than to possibly re-evaluate your own abilities at this game. If "attack with Silas before I heal" is too complex then it's honestly a personal issue.

The three ways I outlined are very organic in nature and are going to happen whether you plan for it or not, end of story. If you're paying even slight attention to Corrin's health, and Silas can safely attack something, then you can use his skill. 

Furthermore, even if I was wrong about his speed (which I'm not considering you're the only one still on this point), it would be up to you to provide proof that he isn't, not the other way around. Either way, my "statistical backing" is the game itself, which I assume you must have access to as well as I if you're really this insistent on arguing this. Turn on the game and do the math. 

Edited March 3, 2017 by Deltre

[Xenomata]

I like how people are saying that Keaton is a good unit and that Silas relies on Vow of Friendship (or something like that), yet Keaton's personal skill has no combat application at all, unless we count "getting that one Ruby you need to upgrade the weapon to +4". I wonder if that says something about Keaton as a unit...?

Personally don't care for Silas. Even in BR and CQ where grinding was a thing, he was very average. Keaton is da beast.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Xenomata