Dragoncat Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 The Japanese name for cavalier translates to social knight. Anyone have any idea why? A quick google for "social" brings up this, although I already knew the definition, just here for reference. Maybe they're "social" because you usually get two at the same time in most FE games? Idk... adjective adjective: social 1. relating to society or its organization. "alcoholism is recognized as a major social problem" synonyms: communal, community, collective, group, general, popular, civil, public, societal "a major social problem" antonyms: individual relating to rank and status in society. "a recent analysis of social class in Britain" needing companionship and therefore best suited to living in communities. "we are social beings as well as individuals" relating to or designed for activities in which people meet each other for pleasure. "Guy led a full social life" synonyms: recreational, leisure, entertainment, amusement "a social club" 2. ZOOLOGY (of a bird) gregarious; breeding or nesting in colonies. synonyms: gregarious, interactional; organized "a uniquely social animal" (of an insect) living together in organized communities, typically with different castes, as ants, bees, wasps, and termites do. (of a mammal) living together in groups, typically in a hierarchical system with complex communication. noun noun: social; plural noun: socials 1. an informal social gathering, especially one organized by the members of a particular club or group. "a church social" synonyms: party, gathering, function, get-together, soirée; More Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEyedDrake Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Presumably because Engrish. Sure sounds like a case of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extrasolar Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 My idea is that it's because cavaliers in general tend to live, train and deploy in large groups, and these large cavalier groups tend to make up the bulk of FE armies. We get kind of the same with Pegasus knights and wyvern riders; really, any soldier-type unit classifies as a "social [x]." I do think that the Red-Green cavalier archetypes being best buddies for the most part plays a part in the name, as does the fact that you often get two or more cavaliers whenever you recruit them. Though in a western sense, the name is a bit strange. Changing the name was a good choice on the localization's part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deltre Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Because Antisoclal Knights don't do well in large groups It's likely just a translation quirk, since it can often be tough to translate a language 1:1 especially in a game with so much text as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Branniglenn Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Even weirder, why do we call them cavaliers? Cavalier describes a type of personality, not a rank or type of knight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deltre Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 1 minute ago, Gustavos said: Even weirder, why do we call them cavaliers? Cavalier describes a type of personality, not a rank or type of knight. Cavaliers actually can be defined as a person riding on horseback, so it's not much of a stretch. I'm fairly certain there's at least one definition that refers specifically to the type of thing you'd see in FE, actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, Gustavos said: Even weirder, why do we call them cavaliers? Cavalier describes a type of personality, not a rank or type of knight. Obviously, it comes from the word cavalry, which refers to riding an animal. Now chivalry is a word I wonder about. Being chivalrous means polite and kind and all, but "chival" is the French word for horse. I can see why chivalry is associated with knights a lot, but it doesn't explain where the word came from at all. Maybe it actually came from knights on horseback, who knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted March 3, 2017 Author Share Posted March 3, 2017 8 minutes ago, Gustavos said: Even weirder, why do we call them cavaliers? Cavalier describes a type of personality, not a rank or type of knight. I have never heard "cavalier" being used to describe personality. It's obviously from cavalry, which means horse mounted troops... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Branniglenn Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Harumph, I know I've used the word as an adjective before. I guess I just never stopped to see the connection between those two words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extrasolar Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 1 minute ago, Dragoncat said: I have never heard "cavalier" being used to describe personality. It's obviously from cavalry, which means horse mounted troops... While "Cavalier" can indeed be used to refer to the horse-mounted troops, it can also be an adjective, albeit an archaic one; a "cavalier" person is one who's reckless and charges forward without thinking, throws caution to the wind and whatnot, derived from the same horse-mounted troops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEyedDrake Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 So if a 'Cavalier' is a "social knight" then is a 'Knight' supposed to be an "antisocial knight"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Falchion Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Anacybele said: Obviously, it comes from the word cavalry, which refers to riding an animal. Now chivalry is a word I wonder about. Being chivalrous means polite and kind and all, but "chival" is the French word for horse. I can see why chivalry is associated with knights a lot, but it doesn't explain where the word came from at all. Maybe it actually came from knights on horseback, who knows? As far as I'm aware, that's exactly where the term chivalry came from- knights on horseback. It was used to refer to how such knight should act in combat and what not and eventually turned a general term for their code of conduct. Shadiversity made a decent video on the subject, which I'll share below. He makes some errors in it but caught and corrected most in annotations. Spoiler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anacybele Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Oh, I see! Interesting, thanks. :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julius Nepos Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I think "social knight" is a mistranslation. The English in the Japanese FE games isn't exactly stellar in general... I think they meant to call the class "mounted knight" (as opposed to "armored knight", which was the other knight class back in FE1). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Extrasolar Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 25 minutes ago, Knight Falchion said: As far as I'm aware, that's exactly where the term chivalry came from- knights on horseback. It was used to refer to how such knight should act in combat and what not and eventually turned a general term for their code of conduct. Shadiversity made a decent video on the subject, which I'll share below. He makes some errors in it but caught and corrected most in annotations. Hide contents Whoa, really cool video. I never knew about all this stuff, and a history lesson is always interesting. I never knew "chivalry" meant different things to different people back in the day, a lot of which contradict one another. I think in FE, we get knights that embody all of the different definitions of chivalry, from the romantic and noble to the ruthless, competitive and violent. That's pretty cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted March 3, 2017 Author Share Posted March 3, 2017 4 hours ago, Extrasolar said: While "Cavalier" can indeed be used to refer to the horse-mounted troops, it can also be an adjective, albeit an archaic one; a "cavalier" person is one who's reckless and charges forward without thinking, throws caution to the wind and whatnot, derived from the same horse-mounted troops. So basically Sain or Kieran. Interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armadillo8 Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 2 hours ago, Hattusili I said: I think "social knight" is a mistranslation. The English in the Japanese FE games isn't exactly stellar in general... I think they meant to call the class "mounted knight" (as opposed to "armored knight", which was the other knight class back in FE1). It's not a mistranslation. It's the direct romanization of the Japanese Name (ソシアル ナイト) that is literally Social Knight. My guess is that they just picked "Social Knight" over "Cavalier" because they misuderstood the meaning of the English word "Social", as ソシアル (social) is Katakana. They could have just used カバリエ (lit. Kabarie = Cavalier), and if they wanted to point out the social aspect they would have probably written "Social" in Kanji/Hiragana. Because, honstely, "Social Knigh" sounds stupid and makes no sense at all. Or they got confused with the word cavalier and thought that a cavalier(knight on a horse) is automatically a cavalier(personality) and then mixed that into one -> "Social - Knight" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Mariode said: It's not a mistranslation. It's the direct romanization of the Japanese Name (ソシアル ナイト) that is literally Social Knight. My guess is that they just picked "Social Knight" over "Cavalier" because they misuderstood the meaning of the English word "Social", as ソシアル (social) is Katakana. They could have just used カバリエ (lit. Kabarie = Cavalier), and if they wanted to point out the social aspect they would have probably written "Social" in Kanji/Hiragana. Because, honstely, "Social Knigh" sounds stupid and makes no sense at all. Or they got confused with the word cavalier and thought that a cavalier(knight on a horse) is automatically a cavalier(personality) and then mixed that into one -> "Social - Knight" Paraphrased: It's not a mistranslation, they just misunderstood the meaning of the foreign word... When people say mistranslation they don't solely mean the localisation team (which as far as I can see was obviously the case for the post in question). Anyway while I think Cavalier was a better option, I do think they should have come up with something better for Armoured Knights rather than calling them Knights. Since it brings up the odd inconsistency of most knights in the series not being in any way related to the class actually called Knight. Since they promote to General maybe Lieutenant or something might have fit. Oh well, too late to change it now. Edited March 4, 2017 by Jotari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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