Your stats are terrible! But I love you anyway.

[Von Ithipathachai]

11 minutes ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

I think both of them prefer General, although you might want Benny to get Luna from GK because he will never, ever double anything, so all of his damage is focused on the first and only hit. Not to mention his starting strength isn't exactly outstanding (Benny also enjoys Quixotic from Basara, which he can reclass into because of Hayato, if you're playing Revelations, Quixotic lets Benny activate Pavise and Luna all the time), although Benny should always end in General, no doubt. Also, Effie is fun to reclass (I made mine a swordmaster) because she's just good at everything, although her defense is actually not that great because she has a defense modifier of -1, even though her growth is good, meaning General is the only class where her defense is as good as it can be.

Ah, see, they way I play, I only use reclassing seals to obtain alternate promotions beyond the limits of the class tree and not to give people extra Skills.  Such as making Hinata a Blacksmith, Hayato an Oni Chieftain, etc.

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

Charlotte's skill growth is actually pretty good at 50%. Her stats that aren't defense, resistance, and magic, are all at least 50%. Her luck backs her up so she doesn't get critted often, if you forge a bronze axe, she can work with that for a little bit and it gives her some dodge, and once she has gotten enough experience, she can transfer to stronger, less accurate weapons without a problem. I've actually never had my Charlotte get critted, she has a massive HP cushion, and after about one or two EXPonential Growth visits (honestly, that isn't even necessary, just pair her with someone who gives a big strength boost like Keaton), she becomes one of your best units, or at least pair-up fodder because of the huge strength boost she gives out. Charlotte's crit ratio capability and damage output are unparalleled in Fates, doing more damage than Beruka and Arthur, who have an edge over her in skill, and the only unit in the game that hits as hard as she does is Effie, who is an unfair comparison because Effie could arguably solo the game with very little support because her growths are insane.

The problem is, she's highly unreliable thanks to this being Fates. Also, unlike most every other game, it takes two points of luck to equal one point of crit evade, which means that crit evade penalty Berserkers suffer is worse than you're letting on. And while Charlotte has a lot of HP, that only means so much when it's backed up by awful defensive stats. What's more, I don't see how Charlotte has unparalleled crit ratio, nor do I buy into it thanks to crits being far more helpful for the enemy than they are for the player. Ergo, situations involving her, and Berserkers in general, are volatile ones with extremely high risk and very little reward thanks to the aforementioned crit evade penalty (to put things into perspective, Charlotte will only have 1 CEv as a Berserker on average after promotion - basically, literally everything would have crit chances on her, which can be fatal in spite of her high HP because she has the defensive capability of wet toilet paper. Needless to say, I don't think the rest of Charlotte's package even comes close to making up for this). She might be good pair up fodder, but that's not nearly enough of a redeeming factor to make her worth wasting a unit slot on, as I see it.

On September 11, 2017 at 10:40 AM, Koumal8 said:

I'd say Archers and Fighters are in the same boat in the GBA games: decent classes with no glaring flaw sporting very bad representatives, while it's the opposite for Knights which are flawed as a class altogether.

The irony of that is that despite it being a supposedly flawed class, I consider Knights far and away a better class than Fighters.

Edited September 12, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Florina's #1 Fan]

1 minute ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

What's more, I don't see how Charlotte has unparalleled crit ratio, nor do I buy into it thanks to crits being far more helpful for the enemy than they are for the player.

Charlotte has a skill growth of 50%. She has the massive crit boost from Berserker, and with a Killer Axe, only Beruka and Arthur can really get the same ratio, and they don't do nearly as much damage. She has a solid hit chance once she's been leveled a few times, and honestly, the enemy units never crit anyway. There have been very few times in FE, just generally, where an enemy has gotten a critical hit on me. It may possibly not even be a two digit number if you don't count killer weapons.  And I have played many of the games in the series. Charlotte doesn't have to worry about getting critted because no one has to worry about getting critted, not even in Fates (unless your name is Arthur), her luck growth is 50% and her speed growth is 65%, meaning that she actually will dodge attacks often (which is calculated before critical hit ratio is in the RNG). Berserkers aren't built to get hit, they're designed to kill on the first hit with their critical ratio and monstrous strength. And when they don't, they have a safeguard in their high avoid and great HP stat. You shouldn't be dissing the character, you should be dissing the class if the problem is they get hurt easily.

[Moblin Major General]

4 minutes ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

 There have been very few times in FE, just generally, where an enemy has gotten a critical hit on me. 

Not everybody has your luck, buddy. Some of us are doomed to hear the ping coming from red units at least once a play session.

[Florina's #1 Fan]

1 minute ago, Hylian Air Force said:

Not everybody has your luck, buddy. Some of us are doomed to hear the ping coming from red units at least once a play session.

But my point was how low the chance of an enemy pulling a crit actually is, not necessarily just my experience with getting critted. I understand there is such a thing as enemy critical hits, but it almost never happens.

[Moblin Major General]

1 minute ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

But my point was how low the chance of an enemy pulling a crit actually is, not necessarily just my experience with getting critted. I understand there is such a thing as enemy critical hits, but it almost never happens.

Then Anna holds you in her favor, while heretics like LMC and myself see our prayers go unanswered often, and at the worst possible moment.

[Florina's #1 Fan]

Just now, Hylian Air Force said:

Then Anna holds you in her favor, while heretics like LMC and myself see our prayers go unanswered often, and at the worst possible moment.

I think it's more like Anna hates you. I have seen very little crit ratios from an enemy above like, 5%, unless someone is attacking Sophia, Arthur, or has a killer weapon. Now, I have been critted with a 1% chance, which is horrible, but again, unlikely. Statistically speaking, being critted by an enemy is very uncommon.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I like using mediocre archers like Wolt, Neimi and FE9 Rolf.

• Wolt is main bow user because he has better stats than when Sue joins. 
• Neimi is a good unit in the long run. Her base level daunts many people to use her but I don't find her bad at all.
• Tbf I only use FE9 Rolf to give him speed transfers in 10 to let him double a litte bit.
• I also like using Fiona and Astrid except in hard mode. They're still the best horse units in the game in the longrun.

[Shadow Mir]

3 hours ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

Charlotte has a skill growth of 50%. She has the massive crit boost from Berserker, and with a Killer Axe, only Beruka and Arthur can really get the same ratio, and they don't do nearly as much damage. She has a solid hit chance once she's been leveled a few times, and honestly, the enemy units never crit anyway. There have been very few times in FE, just generally, where an enemy has gotten a critical hit on me. It may possibly not even be a two digit number if you don't count killer weapons.  And I have played many of the games in the series. Charlotte doesn't have to worry about getting critted because no one has to worry about getting critted, not even in Fates (unless your name is Arthur), her luck growth is 50% and her speed growth is 65%, meaning that she actually will dodge attacks often (which is calculated before critical hit ratio is in the RNG). Berserkers aren't built to get hit, they're designed to kill on the first hit with their critical ratio and monstrous strength. And when they don't, they have a safeguard in their high avoid and great HP stat. You shouldn't be dissing the character, you should be dissing the class if the problem is they get hurt easily.

Except Killer weapons are lackluster in Fates - I'll pass on a weapon that only has iron level Mt and not enough crit to make up for it. Also, this stuff about "the enemy units never crit anyway" seems to be bias since you seem to luck out pretty much every time. I, too, have played most of the games in the series, and one constant is that crit chances are a serious threat unless you have the defense to soak them up (which, as I've pointed out, Charlotte does not). So I don't care if it ain't a double digit number - facing crit chances from pretty much everything is, to quote a certain heroine from Bravely Default, "Unacceptable!!!" And I call BS on this "no one has to worry about getting critted in Fates" statement since the crit evade formula is different, as I stated earlier. Not helping matters is the fact that most Hoshidan classes tend to have high Skill. Also, her Luck growth is 50%... As a Fighter (Berserker has no base luck growth, meaning that it drops to 45%). And unfortunately for her, evade is not nearly as reliable in Fates as it was in prior entries due to a number of factors, among them certain weapons, like Killer weapons, dropping your avoid. Also, while Berserkers might have high crit, the problem is that like I said earlier, crit is terribly lopsided in terms of usefulness - and I don't feel that it comes close to making up for being vulnerable to critical hits (I dare say it's a worse weakness than being weak to Stealth Rock in Pokemon, and if you know competitive Pokemon, you know how big a deal THAT is). So no, I feel justified in dissing both Charlotte AND the Berserker class - Charlotte for having paper defenses, and the class for having a very damning weakness.

Edited September 12, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Florina's #1 Fan]

1 minute ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Except Killer weapons are lackluster in Fates - I'll pass on a weapon that only has iron level Mt and not enough crit to make up for it. Also, this stuff about "the enemy units never crit anyway" seems to be bias since you seem to luck out pretty much every time. I, too, have played most of the games in the series, and one constant is that crit chances are a serious threat unless you have the defense to soak them up (which, as I've pointed out, Charlotte does not). So I don't care if it ain't a double digit number - facing crit chances from pretty much everything is, to quote a certain heroine from Bravely Default, "Unacceptable!!!" And I call BS on this "no one has to worry about getting critted in Fates" statement since the crit evade formula is different, as I stated earlier. Also, her Luck growth is 50%... As a Fighter (Berserker has no base luck growth, meaning that it drops to 45%). And unfortunately for her, evade is not nearly as reliable in Fates as it was in prior entries due to a number of factors, among them certain weapons, like Killer weapons, dropping your avoid. Also, while Berserkers might have high crit, the problem is that like I said earlier, crit is terribly lopsided in terms of usefulness - and I don't feel that it comes close to making up for being vulnerable to critical hits (I dare say it's a worse weakness than being weak to Stealth Rock in Pokemon, and if you know competitive Pokemon, you know how big a deal THAT is). So no, I feel justified in dissing both Charlotte AND the Berserker class - Charlotte for having paper defenses, and the class for having a very damning weakness.

Well, I will agree to disagree, because I said that it wasn't specifically about my luck, but the fact that the numbers for an enemy critical hit are not high. They never are, unless they're using a killer weapon. And since you consider being critted so likely and Charlotte's CEv so crippling, whereas I do not, because damage output being tripled, or in the case of Fates' killer weapons, quadrupled, along with Charlotte's very high strength, is worth it to me, I feel like this would be a never-ending argument that I don't want to have. I would not compare it to stealth rock, though, there are plenty of kamikaze pokemon with a heavy weakness to stealth rock that can still perform effectively, like Talonflame.

[Moblin Major General]

13 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

(I dare say it's a worse weakness than being weak to Stealth Rock in Pokemon, and if you know competitive Pokemon, you know how big a deal THAT is).

You say that, but I think it's more along the lines of being Pursuit trapped (not as common, but means that you have to commit to a gamble versus for sure getting knocked out).

 

[Florina's #1 Fan]

Just now, Hylian Air Force said:

You say that, but I think it's more along the lines of being Pursuit trapped (not as common, but means that you have to commit to a gamble versus for sure getting knocked out).

Yeah, that works much better. I would say it's like using Pheromosa, who is really hard to outspeed and can KO most of the Pokemon in the meta, but if she's outsped, she dies, no questions asked, so using her on your team is a risk in itself.

[Shadow Mir]

4 hours ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

Well, I will agree to disagree, because I said that it wasn't specifically about my luck, but the fact that the numbers for an enemy critical hit are not high. They never are, unless they're using a killer weapon. And since you consider being critted so likely and Charlotte's CEv so crippling, whereas I do not, because damage output being tripled, or in the case of Fates' killer weapons, quadrupled, along with Charlotte's very high strength, is worth it to me, I feel like this would be a never-ending argument that I don't want to have. I would not compare it to stealth rock, though, there are plenty of kamikaze pokemon with a heavy weakness to stealth rock that can still perform effectively, like Talonflame.

From where I'm standing, having a Berserker is like making a deal with the devil, which I don't want anything to do with because of how much more powerful crits are in enemy hands (like I said, most player crits tend to be meaningless in comparison). Also, I find Killer weapons practically useless despite the quadrupled damage on critical hits. About the only time they're useful is against Ryoma in chapter 25. What's more, from where I'm standing, you could've done better than mentioning Talonflame since Talonflame is practically unviable nowadays. I'll grant, Charlotte has high damage output... except for the part where it's hampered by hit rate issues.

4 hours ago, Hylian Air Force said:

You say that, but I think it's more along the lines of being Pursuit trapped (not as common, but means that you have to commit to a gamble versus for sure getting knocked out).

I'm not feeling the Pursuit trap comparison, frankly. Using a Berserker feels more like using (High) Jump Kick to me, except even riskier - instead of just losing the Pokemon you're using, you stand to lose the game outright instead. I see that as an unacceptable risk to be taking.

4 hours ago, Florina's #1 Fan said:

Yeah, that works much better. I would say it's like using Pheromosa, who is really hard to outspeed and can KO most of the Pokemon in the meta, but if she's outsped, she dies, no questions asked, so using her on your team is a risk in itself.

I'm not seeing the Pheromosa comparison - it wasn't a one-trick Ponyta (this, incidentally, resulted in it getting b7 from OU) like Charlotte is. Also, outside of Mega Pinsir, which happens to be very weak to Stealth Rock, you couldn't OHKO it with priority attacks - and this is ignoring that priority suffered a big nerf in the form of Tapu Lele. It doesn't help that Pheromosa's ability results in it getting stronger (or faster) after any KOs it gets. . . Long story short, using Pheromosa may have been a risk, but the risk was outweighed by the reward; I cannot say this of Berserkers in Fates. At all.

Edited September 12, 2017 by Levant Mir Celestia

[henrymidfields]

There aren't really anyone that fits the question, because everyone I used had their uses, or their disadvantages were easy to solve. For example, in Fates:

Arthur: I asked our resident American hero to read the Bible and be a good Protestant every day (read: gave him most of the Godess Statues and equipped him with a Bronze Axe for the early game), and that instantly solved his low luck issue for the most part. The best thing? Absolutely no one else needed the statues, so that was a weakness that was easily solved.
Mozu: Attack-stanced her with Felicia and Arthur for the entirety of her paralogue, gained several levels with much less effort than any of the other Ests, and re-classed her to Sniper, did not ever look back. Counter-attack during enemy phase being discouraged in this game nullified Sniper's disadvantage, while there were skills that really did wonders. To this day, Mozu is the only character that could consistently ORKO 90% of enemies in a given chapter. The other character either do not have her high attack power, or in Niles case a reliable accuracy.
Odin: Simple but effective skill that only requires me to change his weapon's name. He is probably the only one that can attain 40-50% crit rate. Even Mozu could not top that.

As for FE6:
Lilina: Shipped her with Roy to A-level and gained much needed stat boosts, problem solved, benched Lugh.
Fir (allegedly): You know that a) she comes in ax-land and; b) FE6 is called Avoid/Swordmaster Emblem for a reason, right? I dare say, she might be more useful in FE6 that Ryoma would be in Birthright, for the simple reason that FE6 is arguably more difficult than Conquest in some cases (thus Fir/Rutger would make a huge difference), while Ryoma would be redundant in what is essentially Awakening 2.0.
Thany: Considering that I had enemies landing their critical hits on Milady's face (or even maimed her with Zerg Rushes and a thousand minor cuts - she was one of the usual targets - ) more than once...

Edited September 15, 2017 by henrymidfields

[Julius Nepos]

I like Est units in general, but since I usually play ironman runs, I can't afford to try to level them up.

Anyways, for me, the useless units I love the most are:

Genealogy of the Holy War: 
Arden. I just really like him. His fellow soldiers always make fun of him for being slow, which results in him having some self-confidence issues. Best is to support him with Ayra; their lovers conversation in chapter 5 really shows Arden has grown and gained more self-confidence. But since he's useless in combat, I usually bench him.

Thracia 776: 
Tanya. I just love her design. I want an archer on my team, so I end up using either her or Robert.
Dalshin. Something about the guy just really speaks to me. He's a soldier, but he's not a war-lover; he's just an honest father trying to make a living. I've tried using him, but it gets really hard later on in the game.
Robert. Mounted bow user. He turned out really good for me in my first playthrough and now I love him. I try to bring either him or Tanya to endgame.

Blazing Blade:
Rebecca. Like Tanya, I love her design. I also like leveling up units that start out bad, but Rebecca is actually one of the few to join early enough to be able to make it work in an ironman run. Always bring her to endgame.

Sacred Stones: 
Neimi. I want an archer on my team. One with a horse.
Amelia. I find her adorable. I also really like the concept of a speedy general. I usually bench her though.
Knoll. I want a dark magic user on my team! I try to bring him to endgame, but he gets benched if his stats aren't good enough.

Radiant Dawn:
Brom. Much like Dalshin, he's just an honest father trying to make a living. I like that about him. I've brought him to endgame before, but sometimes he gets benched.
Vika. I like her design and I like her as a unit. But there's so many better than her, so I bench her after part 1.
Pelleas. Pelleas is my baby. I love him. I try to bring him to endgame, but, like with Knoll, he gets benched if he can't catch up.

Awakening: 
Donnel. Like Rebecca, he starts out bad, but he joins early enough to be able to make it work. I usually bench him though.