Help me with some SMT mechanics.

[Michelaar]

So, I am getting into the Shin Megami Tensei games. I already knew about persona beforehand, so a lot about it, I knew. However, i'm confused by some of the mechanics. Specifically, the alignment mechanic. Law, neutral and Chaos I believe. What do those all mean? I would like some explanation about these mechanics of SMT.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Mind i only played SJ and 4 but to put it shortly, SMT have a hidden stats based on your answer to various in game questions that would be thrown at you in many moments that decides your alignments. For example lets say the game had a question of

 

Are you a jerk?

Yes - Choosing this will increase your Law Alignment

No - Choosing this for Chaos

 

This is double dipped in a sense that not only these questions decides your aligment, they also affects other stuff. If you are Chaos you have easier time using Chaotic Demons, have access to Chaotic quest, stuff like that

Neutral Alignment is if you are in the middle of the alignment metrics

 

Alignments would then decide the ending you get on a particular playthrough and at a specific point they would completely lock your alignments. Generally speaking, at the final part where your alignments are decided, they would have a set of questions that would significantly tweak your alignment standing. For example, in SMT4 before the Alignment lock, theres 5 or so consecutive question that had massive alignment changes depending on your answer.

 

So the real challenge is usually to get Neutral Alignment since you need to balance your chaos and law answers properly

 

Thats the gist of it as a gameplay mechanic

 

[Michelaar]

25 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

*snip*

 

Thank you!

[Jedi]

In older SMT games (1 and 2 if you ever decide to play them) alignment is based on the demons you use.

general tip, fuse up as much as possible although In games with demon whisper (which teaches your MC skills) wait until said demon is at the point of doing that then fuse. But you always have to upgrade even if you find a favorite, if you don't you'll run into a brick wall really fast.

Edited November 4, 2017 by Jedi

[Interdimensional Observer]

Gameplay-wise, the value of alignment varies from game to game.

In SMTs I and II, if the MC is Law aligned, you can't use Chaos demons. If Chaos, you can't use Law demons. Neutral demons can be used by used by everyone and a neutral MC can use all demons. Having the same alignment might make recruitment easier, but it won't affect fusion.

In Strange Journey, the Law/Neutral/Chaos alignment affects Demon Co-op Attacks. If you target an enemy's weakness and deal damage, if there are allies of the same alignment as the attacker (demon or the MC, it doesn't matter), they'll deal an element-free follow up attack, like Sessions in Tokyo Mirage Sessions except less fleshed out as a mechanic.

In SMTIV and probably Apo (I haven't opened by copy yet), there are three late coming Almighty element spells: Sea of Chaos, Holy Wrath, and Judgement. Each is weaker than Megidoloan, but stronger than Megidola. Sea of Chaos deals 50% more damage to Law foes, Holy Wrath the same to Chaos, and Judgement to Neutrals.

 

Note that there is the secondary alignment of Light-Neutral-Dark. Light and Neutral alignment generally don't matter, but Dark demons in most games can only be recruited via fusion or under certain conditions, like a full moon.

 

As for the role of alignments in story, sometime towards the end, your alignment, determined by the choices you have made, does affect the ending and final dungeon and or bosses faced. Not all games use a point system, Devil Survivor 1 is not just about agreeing with Naoya all the time if you want to go Chaos, you do have to complete his timed battle challenge too. Lastly, not all games use Law Neutral Chaos in the narrative. Nocturne and Devil Survivor 2 (and I've heard Apo) don't really use it, although you could say it exists, just in an altered form.

 

1 hour ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Are you a jerk?

Yes - Choosing this will increase your Law Alignment

No - Choosing this for Chaos

 

Brashs-sounding choices generally are Chaos boosting ones though.

And Chaos is just as bad as Law. The majority of excrement you go through in most SMTs is chaotic. The difference is people generally hate justice freaks more than random Onis that want to eat them.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

4 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Brashs-sounding choices generally are Chaos boosting ones though.

And Chaos is just as bad as Law. The majority of excrement you go through in most SMTs is chaotic. The difference is people generally hate justice freaks more than random Onis that want to eat them.

Your commitment to react to a joke question seriously is something to behold

 

So let me answer with a meme answer. Chaotic is that, Chaos. Its all over the place. If you are a jerk, in lawful section. You are a jerk because of the law abidement, so your a jerk regardless. A Chaotic Jerk would be slightly less jerk in other moments

 

 

fuck that was bad

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 minute ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Your commitment to react to a joke question seriously is something to behold

My bad. It's just that people (at least on GFAQs) have long railed that Chaos has been given a better portrayal than Law, so I thought you were being serious.

The freedom of Chaos has been shown plenty, but Law hasn't had its good principles emphasized as much they say (although if we called the Ashura Kai Law-aligned, I think it was well done). It doesn't help that Lucifer, who in truth cares as much about ideology as YHVH (or as little as YHVH), and openly admits he doesn't actually care about humanity in itself in SJ I believe, is much more personal and frequent in his appearances.

[Von Ithipathachai]

1 hour ago, Jedi said:

In older SMT games (1 and 2 if you ever decide to play them) alignment is based on the demons you use.

This is only partially correct.  What you're describing is Party Alignment, which didn't appear until Shin Megami Tensei: if... and was really only utilized there and in the pre-Raidou Devil Summoner games (to the best of my knowledge).

Alignment in SMT1+2 is affected not only by story events, but also by what kind of enemies you kill.  For example, killing lots of Law-aligned enemies will gradually shift your Alignment closer to Chaos.

[Interdimensional Observer]

47 minutes ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

Alignment in SMT1+2 is affected not only by story events, but also by what kind of enemies you kill. 

Also what healing places you spend your money at, at least in SMT I. After doing the Yama-Ikebukuro alignment shift, I tend to use this to correct a "bad" alignment. I don't kill Yama until later (which gives no alignment), instead I spam Traport with the Heroine (which won't work while Yama lives, but still costs MP), and continually visit Gaean heal spots and heal off that 2 MP over and over. This is a kinda cheap, fairly fast way of correcting things, faster than the selective demon killing.

[Michelaar]

Thanks guys! Is there anything else I should know? I asked the discord serenes chat and they suggested I start with Strange Journey, and i'm enjoying it so far. Is there anything particularly different? I've heard people say that it's a spin-off.

[Von Ithipathachai]

1 hour ago, Michelaar said:

Thanks guys! Is there anything else I should know? I asked the discord serenes chat and they suggested I start with Strange Journey, and i'm enjoying it so far. Is there anything particularly different? I've heard people say that it's a spin-off.

I always assumed Strange Journey was supposed to be a main series game.  It was originally supposed to be Shin Megami Tensei IV, but they re-titled it because of how different it was.

[Jedi]

9 hours ago, Von Ithipathachai said:

This is only partially correct.  What you're describing is Party Alignment, which didn't appear until Shin Megami Tensei: if... and was really only utilized there and in the pre-Raidou Devil Summoner games (to the best of my knowledge).

Alignment in SMT1+2 is affected not only by story events, but also by what kind of enemies you kill.  For example, killing lots of Law-aligned enemies will gradually shift your Alignment closer to Chaos.

My mistake it's been awhile.

[Magical CC]

Law is the controlling boyfriend who keeps asking to see your phone mails and demand to know your facebook passwords. Chaos is a guy who simply doesnt care what you or him do at all unless you slap him for some reasons, that is when he punches back with extreme prejudge. It's more like order and chaotic than law and chaos. Law tends to side you with angels, gods and stuff while chaos tends to side you with lucifer and the demons. Neutral is usually the hardest route and the longest route as well since you more often than not, get to fight both angels and demons.