overrated and underrated units in Awakening

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Awakening has quite a bit of terrain to take advantage of. There's just very few hard chokes where the terrain around them are impassable. If anything, more thinking is required in order to have a meaningful formation. Dancers and healers can be used just fine with proper positioning.

Nah, Counter's interesting when it's not spammed because it means the player has to pay attention instead of just rolling everything with super units. Even the suicide steel units in the GBA games reach a point where no quantity of them can kill some super units. Isolated Counter enemies force the players to take care of their super unit(s). Counter spam is not great because while it does give super units pause, it also collaterally screws with every other unit.

The weapon ranks thing makes the enemies arguably more interesting. When they have WTD, they lose the entirety of the weapon-rank bonus, in addition to whatever WTD penalties they take from the player unit. This gives more incentive for the player to find favourable match-ups by giving them a bigger bump for those, whereas they take a bigger hit by trying to ignore the weapon triangle. Forges and hackforges don't come in until there's nowhere left for the enemy to go. Lunatic rapidly progresses through iron, then steel, then silver, but after silver, they have to start forging. Otherwise, player scaling just massively outruns it. For a good example, go fight Yarne's paralogue with a good team. Most of the pre-spawned enemies there have non-forged silver weapons. They'll basically do 0 damage to any player unit that marginally resembles a tank. Yes, even on Lunatic.

Random class skills does have the unfortunate effect of bringing in stuff like Gamble when it really shouldn't be there because +10 Crit is pretty ridiculous on early enemies. Granted, said skills become completely irrelevant later in the game, given that many of them are really weak without any kind of synergistic build.

Chrom as a pair partner stops most player units from getting doubled by stuff (even Vaike won't get doubled by a Merc with Chrom's help). There's also certain breakpoints where Sully or Stahl as a pair-up partner stops it for certain units. I said it before and I'll say it again: Lunatic's early game is very precisely mathed so that it rewards the player for being intimately familiar with the formulae and which unit boosts what stats to make benchmarks. When they say the mode is for experts, they actually do mean experts.

Also, why is Fred taking four or more hits per turn? That's really bad play, since that's basically letting him get surrounded on all sides. He wants to kite along with the other units, not sit in the open and get mauled for no good reason.

While the water trick does make things easier and more consistent, there were strats long before that that would not use the water and still get Robin to about level 4. It could be iffy, but it was generally enough to springboard Robin into being a tank later on. Also, define "normal" player, because I'd think that most normal people who decide to make the jump from Hard to an expert mode like Lunatic would understand they might have to adapt, learn and work at mastering the mode. There are few people who can simply pick something up and win without practice.

[Shadow Mir]

13 hours ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

Vengeance really isn't that hard to get to nearly 100% on any of the player's first two, maybe three, sweeper slots. Appropriate pair-up and Tonics are just really strong that way. Sure, it's not going to get Chrom to 100% Hit rate if he's not capped in Skl and Luk, but he should be able to push over 70 listed Hit, which is pretty impressive from the back, considering Exalted Falchion's low base Hit. Lucina's only worse off in raw damage. She tends to grow faster and better, so if she can hit more reliably, then she's worth considering unless she isn't going to hit the damage breakpoint for the army. Warrior Morgan definitely does work. I've personally checked the math and verified it through execution. He does enough damage to overkill by something like 3 damage. He's also just an example of the pinnacle. As I said, others can fill his role, even if not as well (a good candidate would be an early kid with Vaike as a father for the big Str boost). But if the player brings one or two other competent units, they should be able to make up the difference when the Brave Bow shenanigans are already doing so much damage.

Hmmm, whoops, yeah, for some reason I thought Jaffar's growth with Legault was faster. So, yeah, that should just read Jaffar/Nino. Nino is a fan favourite, so she's worth noting, even if she's a pretty weak unit. And yeah, the old GBA support rate is pretty gross. 3-5 points per turn is varies from pretty okay to quite fast, but I feel like they didn't properly check the math when assigning so many people to having 1-and-2-point growths. It does make a lot of sense for some units, but that rate could have been used a lot more sparingly for the relationships that don't approach blatant hostility.

What I actually meant when mentioning Vengeance is that a lucky (or unlucky, depending on your perspective) dual guard means that instead you wind up with it being a dud. And I can't help but think that hit rate is assuming Chrom is capped, which I highly doubt is gonna happen without grinding. As for Lucina, a capped Lucina might be better off, but it's only marginally (after all, the Parallel Falchion is no better in accuracy than the Exalted Falchion), and a capped Lucina is also blatantly unrealistic (I used Sumia!Lucina because she has the highest skill modifier). I wasn't disputing Warrior Morgan's effectiveness - rather, I was taking issue with the fact that it's dependent on having a female Robin. What if someone wanted to use a male Robin instead? That's automatically off the table then.

You're telling me. It's even worse in FE6, where it's safe to assume that if they didn't know each other before the game begins, they have a slow support growth. And I mentioned Nino because being underleveled is bad enough, but she is in a game where enemies are weak, which works out AGAINST her as much as, if not more so than it should work for her (simply put, most enemy units wouldn't be good enough to go a round with my badasses and live to tell the tale).

8 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

Yes counter warriors are cancer and they don't bring anything near interesting to the difficulty, just stupid game design (like exponential growth throwing you 2 def with high HP faceless with counter in a DLC made for exp grinding, you already paid the DLC and you still have to be careful of ennemies with stupid design, with breakers, miracle and everyone with counter). Awakening has the shittiest design between TSS, POR, RD and Awakening because of how most objectives and maps are deprived of any thinking, cuts you from using normally dancers/healers, who are much more often in danger than in any of the other aforementionned titles (I didn't finish any of the other ones so I can't tell for them and I didn't finish POR either but at least I reached chapter 20 or more) and difficulty raises like cheat, with early ennemies having B weapon rank from the start in hard and A rank for everyone with cheated +3 MT +20 hit etc. weapons everywhere in lunatic (is that supposed to bring anything? just put steel weapons on them instead, at least they have less hit than iron weapons) coupled with stupid skill like crit +5/+10, +5 HP on already pumped up units with +15 hp or not far from it (from easy/hard difficulties), enough speed to double your fastest non-Frederick units, Fred can't even tank more than 4 physical hits per turn and mages exist from the prologue. Without the water trick I don't think a noral player would be able to get past chapter 3 or 4 because they couldn't give MU the precious level ups.

Bold: Your design comment is subjective, not to mention BS. And I fail to see how dancers and healers are "much more often in danger than in any of the other titles", aside from reinforcements spawning before enemy phase, which isn't only intrinsic to Awakening.

Second bold: Also false. The minimum rank that enemies have in Hard is C, and Lunatic bumps enemies up a weapon tier (basically, enemies that would use bronze would now be using Iron, etc; lategame, they have to do something to go over silver, hence why lategame in Hard and Lunatic has forged weapons). And as was stated earlier, the weapon rank thing pushes you to strategize more, if anything.

Everything else: Counter isn't too bad when it isn't being spammed. Like said, it prevents you from just throwing a supercharged unit blindly into a pack of enemies. It's when it's spammed that things get dicey. And DLC is optional content (not to mention the only weapon type that'd be screwed by Counter in EXPonential Growth is swords, since the others have ranged options that are readily available; for your information, the Entombed in said DLC don't even bother attacking unless they're surrounded). As for "normal" players, I don't think most of them would touch Lunatic without getting some experience at the game first.

Edited February 8, 2018 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

2 hours ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

What I actually meant when mentioning Vengeance is that a lucky (or unlucky, depending on your perspective) dual guard means that instead you wind up with it being a dud. And I can't help but think that hit rate is assuming Chrom is capped, which I highly doubt is gonna happen without grinding. As for Lucina, a capped Lucina might be better off, but it's only marginally (after all, the Parallel Falchion is no better in accuracy than the Exalted Falchion), and a capped Lucina is also blatantly unrealistic (I used Sumia!Lucina because she has the highest skill modifier). I wasn't disputing Warrior Morgan's effectiveness - rather, I was taking issue with the fact that it's dependent on having a female Robin. What if someone wanted to use a male Robin instead? That's automatically off the table then.

You're telling me. It's even worse in FE6, where it's safe to assume that if they didn't know each other before the game begins, they have a slow support growth. And I mentioned Nino because being underleveled is bad enough, but she is in a game where enemies are weak, which works out AGAINST her as much as, if not more so than it should work for her (simply put, most enemy units wouldn't be good enough to go a round with my badasses and live to tell the tale).

That is true. I guess that's one place where Lunatic+ has an advantage over vanilla Lunatic: you can forcibly face-tank a Counter to set up Vengeance against Grima. As for Chrom, I did forget to account for one factor when I took my final hit rate, which does get to around 70 using just a bit over 30 Skl and Luk, which is pretty reasonable when his cap as Great Lord or Paladin is 40 and 45, respectively (which would get him over 80) and he picks up around 35 levels. That is, Outdoor Fighter, since I almost always personally put him through Cavalier. 32 Skl and Luk (after Tonics) is +64 Hit, Exalted is 80 base and Hexathema adds another 25, bringing him to 169. Outdoor Fighter puts him at 179, which, after Grima's 110 base Avo, is 69 Hit. Just one more point of Skl and he breaks 70. If Lucina is nearby for Charm, he gets another 5, though that scenario is a bit less practical unless her pair is leading the PP assault. Lucina doesn't need to be capped, but she should have higher stats than her dad due to inherited bases and then enjoying tier-1 EXP gain for a while with said bases. She should probably get some level of notable lead over him.

Okay, but Warrior Morgan was just being used as an example of the build's effectiveness. As I noted, other units can make use of the build (again, early kid with Vaike father), even if they have to end up being an Assassin, Sniper or Bow Knight to do it. They won't score the kill all by themselves, but I mean, c'mon, this is just the one pair, plus Olivia. The player has the entire PP with the whole rest of the army to make up what's probably going to be a 30ish-HP difference. Surely 3-4 more units can do that when someone else led such a devastating charge.

Wow, I guess this is probably because it's been ages since I touched FE6, but I didn't realize it was that bad. Spoonfeeding Nino can be annoying when everyone else murders all the mooks. I raised her for the extra story stuff on that last playthrough and I ended up holding Cog's bridge with a couple unequipped units and having her kill stuff over way too many turns. Then the game RNG-screwed her levels, so she wasn't even very strong. >.>

[mangasdeouf]

Coming back to the topic, is Frederick so good he can solo lunatic? sure he can take lance-/axebreaker, pavise and aegis, but is it enough? he doesn't have healing skills and Sol sword isn't unlimited.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Without grinding or severe level rigging, Fred definitely can't. Even with an optimal S-rank pair-up (Sumia or Cordelia) and every stat booster, his EXP gain just doesn't keep up. Mid-Valm is where he'll struggle to perform even as a fifth-string tank. He's still really good in that he carries the early game enough to get other units rolling.

[mangasdeouf]

And with grinding can he do it? can he pass chapter 1-6 without using Lissa or using other units for combat? Can he kill the hammer-man in chapter 3 and survive until the end?

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

How much grinding are we talking here? Because his max stats aren't any lower than anyone else's. C3 would be really tricky for him. Hell, C1 would be problematic with the Hammer guy there. It'd involve counting on RNG to dodge after stealing one of the swords from one of the other units. Let's be fair here: no one can fully solo Lunatic. Robin comes the closest, but still needs that early help.

[mangasdeouf]

Thanks for the anwer. And how can one beat lunatic without using Fred for combat? I don't think the prologue can be finished without Fred fighting once as the main fighter.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

You can't, really. Not without super absurd luck, anyway. That's why I said Robin comes closest, but needs early help. An above-average +Def Robin can be rolling by about mid-C1, but it's not really reasonable to expect to get there without Fred or Lissa helping Robin.

[mangasdeouf]

It's so sad you can't even choose what way you are playing from the beginning, having to use Frederick in every playthrough for 2 chapters...

I just level upped! I was able to do chapter 6 on hard mode without any unit outside of Fred and Lucina fighting (she died on 1st surrounded turn though) aside from Chrom hitting once the fighter from the top-left corner (the one coming before Gaius) to recruit Gaius but Chrom level 2 didn't even hit for 1/3 of the ennemy's HP and Fred killed him with Orsin axe gotten from bonus box (I think without the levin sword also gotten from that I would have had to change my plans for this chapter and I got a hatchet in chapter 2, 3, 4 or 5 so I had enough ranged weapons to clear chapter 5 without the kids dying with only 1 level up for Chrom at the end of the chapter and still having enough to kill the mages and open a path to myself (Fred) in chapter 6 for thieves to let the door shut). Fred could kill the thieves and block the door.

I used level 1 Lissa with Maribackpack to rescue Gaius with Chrom backpack so he didn't get hit by the stalker dark mage. Chrom fighted once for nothing, Maribelle paired up with Lissa, Lissa rescued twice but no level up.

Chapter 6 finished (hard) with Fred level 13:

41 HP, 20 str, 2 mag, 18 skl, 15 spd, 13 lck, 21 def, 9 res. I didn't use any boosters yet.

Edited February 8, 2018 by mangasdeouf

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

That's just going to happen when you play higher difficulties in a game that starts you with a small squad. The game expects you to be familliar with and use all tools available to you. Like, HHM gets pretty messed up if Oswin gets ignored or even Marcus, since, coming in at the levels that they do, Eliwood's team is gonna have a real rough time otherwise. You also can't just ignore Hector and try to clear to that first mission with Matthew, because it'll end in one flattened spy. You can't really ignore Nolan for Radiant Dawn Hard Mode without relying on luck because of the nature of the timed mission (not to mention that Edward just loves taking axes to the face). I guess you can more or less ignore Titania on PoR Hard, but good luck doing that on Maniac.

[mangasdeouf]

It would be nice if the difficulty wasn't coming mainly from ennemies with good/cheated stats/weapons/forges but from the chapters' objectives. Giving +1 or +2 here and there wouldn't hurt (or adding a few ennemies and balancing exp to get the same amount per kill per chapter from more ennemies) but not bumping their stats to your units' equal AND add ennemies AND reducing exp per kill AND per hit AND per boss kill in addition to overloading the map and giving better weapons to ennemies without giving YOU better weapons. It's sadly the way FE difficulty is set. They do all in one for you to be disgusted from the difficulty when coming from the lower one.The 1st time I tried RD chapter 1 hard I couldn't pass it because I wasn't used to tanks tanking and chipping outside from knights and Nolan had bad HP, def, damage AND accuracy from the start, as if you were facing 10 mercenaries in TSS prologue with Garcia as your frontliner on the top-left bridge, Eirika as Edward and Micaiah as the self-sacrificing healer with 3 potions in the inventory and a light tome without crit. Would you think it's supposed to be cleared? I wouldn't. Or at least not for the 10 first tries.

Fred went to paladin at level 13 but sadly paladin's average growths killed everything good from Fred and now he's 10 with 28 strength or so and 24 skill, 5X HP and everything else 20-ish with 14 res from reclass that never got a single point upon level up. I think he's the worst paladin I've ever tried (Seth was the well-balanced one, Titania from PoR was the average everything without anything great but at least she could be useful for anything, and Fred got screwed by the reclass while his bases seem better his growths were hurt and instead of 3-6 points per level not counting 2 HP in one level up he gains 2-4 points per level...I wanted him to get more res and speed but I massacred his potential with 50-ish growths and 30-ish res while pulling down his strength, Hp and def growths). Anyway he's gonna end up pair up bot sadly since my villager girl!Lucina had worse bases than her father at level 10. Tharja is doing OK with only 1 nosferatu per chapter, she died once but well I wasn't careful enough and she had no pair up in chapter 12, she has close to 20 mag, spd, def, and 16 skill (2 skill boosters but she's 3 points under Henry while both were instantly promoted on recruitment and he was 2 levels higher than her) and 13-ish luck (she's the only one who needs luck and skill in my full pre-promotes run), Gregor meh bow knight reclassed berserker for axefaire before I can promote him to hero (yes for me berserker reclassed into hero is a promotion), Libra level 18 not reclassed, I can't decide what to do with him I don't want to loose his A-axes rank and his 20-ish def for sage staff bot but I don't want to loose his A-staves either since him and Anna are my only healers and Anna is going to cause me some problems upon reclass too, I don't want 1 staff user only; Say'ri is level 4 and she lacks a few things but she's gonna be OK, Henry can do well with speed support but he's not even close to double anyone barring knights. I'm currently sitting at chapter 16.

[Shoblongoo]

Frederick was already dropping off for me by Port Ferox on my lunatic runs, IIRC. 

...one in particular....

Sully at that point was just better than him in every conceivable way and ready to take over his duties. And I had a Kjelle coming in soon off of a Frederick/Sully S-Support, that was going to instantly outclass papa Frederick upon promotion.

Now I think what wound up happening was I got an early brave axe off of a sparking tile. (lucky)

So I reclassed Frederick to general (don't laugh--it works). Gave him the brave axe. Relegated him to pair-up fodder for Sully. 

And not only was he putting insane pair-up buffs on Sully and letting her frontline like a champ with boosted attack and defense, he was doubling off the brave axe on dual strikes. 

I kept Freddy around just for that through a good chunk of the Valm Arc. Helped wifey get super buff. And then I did eventually replace him with his daughter. 

...I guess I'd count Kjelle as an underrated unit on Lunatic. Sully is naturally good enough and sees enough action on most playthroughs that getting her to an early S-Support isn't too much of a stretch.

And if you pick Kjelle up early enough, she's perfectly serviceable as a Great Knight. Her recruitment chapter is a pain-in-the-ass on Lunatic, though. Especially if you're trying to hit it early enough for Kjelle to see action in early valm.

Doable with nos tanking and some clutch rescue strats though. And like I said--perfectly serviceable Great Knight.  

Edited February 9, 2018 by Shoblongoo

[Shadow Mir]

 

2 hours ago, mangasdeouf said:

It would be nice if the difficulty wasn't coming mainly from ennemies with good/cheated stats/weapons/forges but from the chapters' objectives. Giving +1 or +2 here and there wouldn't hurt (or adding a few ennemies and balancing exp to get the same amount per kill per chapter from more ennemies) but not bumping their stats to your units' equal AND add ennemies AND reducing exp per kill AND per hit AND per boss kill in addition to overloading the map and giving better weapons to ennemies without giving YOU better weapons. It's sadly the way FE difficulty is set. They do all in one for you to be disgusted from the difficulty when coming from the lower one.The 1st time I tried RD chapter 1 hard I couldn't pass it because I wasn't used to tanks tanking and chipping outside from knights and Nolan had bad HP, def, damage AND accuracy from the start, as if you were facing 10 mercenaries in TSS prologue with Garcia as your frontliner on the top-left bridge, Eirika as Edward and Micaiah as the self-sacrificing healer with 3 potions in the inventory and a light tome without crit. Would you think it's supposed to be cleared? I wouldn't. Or at least not for the 10 first tries.

Fred went to paladin at level 13 but sadly paladin's average growths killed everything good from Fred and now he's 10 with 28 strength or so and 24 skill, 5X HP and everything else 20-ish with 14 res from reclass that never got a single point upon level up. I think he's the worst paladin I've ever tried (Seth was the well-balanced one, Titania from PoR was the average everything without anything great but at least she could be useful for anything, and Fred got screwed by the reclass while his bases seem better his growths were hurt and instead of 3-6 points per level not counting 2 HP in one level up he gains 2-4 points per level...I wanted him to get more res and speed but I massacred his potential with 50-ish growths and 30-ish res while pulling down his strength, Hp and def growths). Anyway he's gonna end up pair up bot sadly since my villager girl!Lucina had worse bases than her father at level 10. Tharja is doing OK with only 1 nosferatu per chapter, she died once but well I wasn't careful enough and she had no pair up in chapter 12, she has close to 20 mag, spd, def, and 16 skill (2 skill boosters but she's 3 points under Henry while both were instantly promoted on recruitment and he was 2 levels higher than her) and 13-ish luck (she's the only one who needs luck and skill in my full pre-promotes run), Gregor meh bow knight reclassed berserker for axefaire before I can promote him to hero (yes for me berserker reclassed into hero is a promotion), Libra level 18 not reclassed, I can't decide what to do with him I don't want to loose his A-axes rank and his 20-ish def for sage staff bot but I don't want to loose his A-staves either since him and Anna are my only healers and Anna is going to cause me some problems upon reclass too, I don't want 1 staff user only; Say'ri is level 4 and she lacks a few things but she's gonna be OK, Henry can do well with speed support but he's not even close to double anyone barring knights. I'm currently sitting at chapter 16.

What chapter are you at? I'd surmise lategame, since you mentioned Libra being level 18.

On 2/6/2018 at 12:43 PM, mangasdeouf said:

He didn't insult you he just remarked that you're being subjective in your way of thinking about Tharja maybe you don't like her chara design or something else but she's a good asset to your army in any difficulty while others don't contribute well. Miriel comes level 1 or 2 with awful bases (even in magic) and her level 10 skill is useless. She takes 8 or 9 levels to be able to promote/reclass into a useful class (and promotion is impossible for her before chapter 8 anyway). Tharja comes with a useful class, 2 skills considered as top tier for tier 1 units (by the way her lack of avoid is not as important with her 2 excellent skills which lessen the ennemies' avoid by a total of 25 which means they don't have any avoid left so she hits for 100% of her own hit rate and lessens crit avoid by 10% which negates their luck) she just needs bulk and all the skill tomes/skill potions you can get (it's not like many others need it so it's not a bad thing to gives them to her).

I already responded to this, but there's something I want to clear up - yes, I don't like Tharja's character (that's probably true of most people here, though). Anyways, my big issue with her is that as I stated earlier, her low skill and Luck limit her ability to use magic other than wind, which isn't helped by other magic units having the accuracy to use thunder without having significant hit issues, for the most part (Anathema alone tends to not be enough to rectify this, and like I stated earlier, for her to take advantage of Hex, she has to put herself in a position where she's either getting attacked, or is going to eat a counter). Then there's the fact that she faces crit chances from a lot of stuff, which isn't a good thing when crits can randomly cheese you out of a unit (by the way, I REALLY think critical hits need to be nerfed); nobody would like spending an hour or more on a hard chapter only to get haxed out of a unit near the end, especially not in a game series with permanent death, like this one. I'm of the mind that if Tharja was really as good as everyone says she is, she wouldn't have debilitating issues like these.

1 hour ago, Shoblongoo said:

Frederick was already dropping off for me by Port Ferox on my lunatic runs, IIRC. 

...one in particular....

Sully at that point was just better than him in every conceivable way and ready to take over his duties. And I had a Kjelle coming in soon off of a Frederick/Sully S-Support, that was going to instantly outclass papa Frederick upon promotion.

Now I think what wound up happening was I got an early brave axe off of a sparking tile. (lucky)

So I reclassed Frederick to general (don't laugh--it works). Gave him the brave axe. Relegated him to pair-up fodder for Sully. 

And not only was he putting insane pair-up buffs on Sully and letting her frontline like a champ with boosted attack and defense, he was doubling off the brave axe on dual strikes. 

I kept Freddy around just for that through a good chunk of the Valm Arc. Helped wifey get super buff. And then I did eventually replace him with his daughter. 

...I guess I'd count Kjelle as an underrated unit on Lunatic. Sully is naturally good enough and sees enough action on most playthroughs that getting her to an early S-Support isn't too much of a stretch.

And if you pick Kjelle up early enough, she's perfectly serviceable as a Great Knight. Her recruitment chapter is a pain-in-the-ass on Lunatic, though. Especially if you're trying to hit it early enough for Kjelle to see action in early valm.

Doable with nos tanking and some clutch rescue strats though. And like I said--perfectly serviceable Great Knight.  

Eep. Also, are you sure it was a brave axe? Because according to the site, you can't get a brave axe off a sparkling tile. The only braves that are obtainable from sparkling tiles are Eirika's Blade and Celica's Gale. Also, I'd say that another bonus to getting Sully married is being able to buy HP Tonics, which are otherwise only available after chapter 16.

[Shoblongoo]

Maybe it was from the barracks?

I forget. Frederick somehow wound up with a Brave Axe way, way sooner than he was supposed to have one and was doing silly things with it. 

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

I think the Barracks uses the same loot table as the tiles, so you'd have to have purchased it off of a Spotpass or Streetpass team.

[Shoblongoo]

8 minutes ago, Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi said:

 so you'd have to have purchased it off of a Spotpass or Streetpass team.

well i definitely didn't do that.

...weird... 

well put that mystery aside for now. Kjelle for underrated unit, for the above-stated reasons. I know alot of people instinctively dislike her because Awakening's armor knights are blargghhhhh.

But she does come promotion-ready. And once you get her mounted + get that ridiculous armor off of her (giggity), she isn't half bad. 

Edited February 9, 2018 by Shoblongoo

[ChickenWings]

(For any tiers that attempt to cover Lunatic: )

I agree with Maribelle being too high and Libra being too low.

 

I think Panne is overrated. 

 

Edited February 18, 2018 by ChickenWings