So... I was right?!

[Arthur97]

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

Well, if we go by your case where Grima and Robin are struggling for dominance over the body, then its possible that the personality simply had a small mixture, so Grima is actually more calm and not wanting to be a raging monster. 

Well, the case on Future Past is that Robin is labeled as Grima, but here in Heroes, Grima is labeled as Robin. Robin in Future Past accepted that he is Grima and he failed to stop his destiny. Heroes Grima is showing how Robin is still holding some more influence, but not actually stopping Grima from moving, but limited in his powers.

I think directing its powers might be more accurate. 

Heroes Grima is stated to essentially be Grima though (don't know why they didn't just name the unit Grima except to fit the theme). Future Past Robin labels himself after years of psychological torment from watching what Grima did with his body and of probably Grima feeding him all sorts of lies to break him. Grima would love for Robin to believe that; it would make him easier to subject (or, at least, you'd think it would).

[omegaxis1]

21 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Though interesting, it's kind of late. I still don't get why a lot of this wasn't already in Awakening. Grima would've been a much better villain then.

It is sad that Awakening didn't go all out. They really could have done something there. But I think if they did something like this, it would have demanded that we get more depth on why Grima thinks like this, and that might have required more content in Awakening.

19 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

I think directing its powers might be more accurate. 

Heroes Grima is stated to essentially be Grima though (don't know why they didn't just name the unit Grima except to fit the theme). Future Past Robin labels himself after years of psychological torment from watching what Grima did with his body and of probably Grima feeding him all sorts of lies to break him. Grima would love for Robin to believe that; it would make him easier to subject (or, at least, you'd think it would).

Directed also works. But overall, its clear that Grima is in control, but Robin holds some influence in making Grima stay somewhat calm. If anything, this is allowing Grima to actually talk and not just murder us at the first case. But since it isn't as strong as it was in Future Past where Grima got weakened, Robin cannot manifest and instead Grima still can move and attack.

[Arthur97]

31 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

It is sad that Awakening didn't go all out. They really could have done something there. But I think if they did something like this, it would have demanded that we get more depth on why Grima thinks like this, and that might have required more content in Awakening.

Directed also works. But overall, its clear that Grima is in control, but Robin holds some influence in making Grima stay somewhat calm. If anything, this is allowing Grima to actually talk and not just murder us at the first case. But since it isn't as strong as it was in Future Past where Grima got weakened, Robin cannot manifest and instead Grima still can move and attack.

They do seem to have a Hulk/Bruce Banner relationship going on, don't they?

This could also provide an alternate explanation for why Lucina's future held on as long as it did. Perhaps it was Robin, not ego, keeping Grima at bay.

Edited February 22, 2018 by Arthur97

[omegaxis1]

5 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

They do seem to have a Hulk/Bruce Banner relationship going on, don't they?

Only they are more aware of what the other is doing.

[Zangetsu]

18 hours ago, Jingle Jangle said:

True, but what I'm referring to is Anankos being a strong villian.

Ok, at the risk of going off topic, why isn't Anankos shouldn't be consider a legit villain?

Going everything I know about Fire Emblem, Anankos looks like he's going through common illness among Dragons & he did his absolutely damnest to prevent that but ultimately he succumb to it. As much I want it to be non-canon he did mistaken Shigure as the friend he did accidentally killed & try to make amends with him by trying find a world where Dragon just exist or something along those lines.

 

Back on topic.

I still can't believe it took a mobile game to finally flesh out Grima. I mean, seriously WTF!?

[omegaxis1]

1 hour ago, Zangetsu said:

Ok, at the risk of going off topic, why isn't Anankos shouldn't be consider a legit villain?

Going everything I know about Fire Emblem, Anankos looks like he's going through common illness among Dragons & he did his absolutely damnest to prevent that but ultimately he succumb to it. As much I want it to be non-canon he did mistaken Shigure as the friend he did accidentally killed & try to make amends with him by trying find a world where Dragon just exist or something along those lines.

Anankos wasn't mistaking Shigure for the friend he killed. It was the first Vallite King that he mistook Shigure for, Cadros. The one that Anankos killed by mistake was Azura's father, which is what led Anankos to his madness. 

And you are correct, Anankos could actually qualify for a decent villain. Some of my issues with him is what he has done. They tried to portray him as this radically powerful god, that he could terraform an entire planet like it was nothing, undoing the ENTIRE damage that Grima had performed on the future world back to normal, with gravestones to boot. Then he goes and tries to underplay that power by saying that he cannot manipulate space-time nearly as much as Naga could, like he's saying that Naga is more powerful. Then they tried to make him be as big as Grima (failed by the way), and then go and create a black hole.

Oh, and Heirs of Fate made things worse by having Anankos be a multiversal conquerer and the song that defeats him is his creation that undid every damage and even revived the dead, despite Anankos saying that he cannot revive the dead. 

2 hours ago, Zangetsu said:

Back on topic.

I still can't believe it took a mobile game to finally flesh out Grima. I mean, seriously WTF!?

Is it that surprising? I mean, think about it, in Heroes, Grima HAS to talk to us, make voiced lines, and then have some kind of meaningful conversation with us at the LV40 dialogue.

[Ledrert]

That's quite interesting ! No, not quite. VERY intesting. I'll keep that in mind for my fic. Getting some depth is really nice to see.

[omegaxis1]

7 minutes ago, Ledrert said:

That's quite interesting ! No, not quite. VERY intesting. I'll keep that in mind for my fic. Getting some depth is really nice to see.

Glad I could help. What kind of fic do you write and where?

[Ledrert]

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

Glad I could help. What kind of fic do you write and where?

I'm "rewriting" Awakening while following mainly Robin and Lissa's relationship. The link is in my sign, but I'll give it here if you use mobile (I don't remember if mobile's website show signs) : https://www.fanfiction.net/u/9912235/

I try to fill some holes from the games with my fic, but that's only my point of view of the events. But I didn't thought about Grima's backstory, so these details are really helping.

[omegaxis1]

8 minutes ago, Ledrert said:

I'm "rewriting" Awakening while following mainly Robin and Lissa's relationship. The link is in my sign, but I'll give it here if you use mobile (I don't remember if mobile's website show signs) : https://www.fanfiction.net/u/9912235/

I try to fill some holes from the games with my fic, but that's only my point of view of the events. But I didn't thought about Grima's backstory, so these details are really helping.

Neat. I have an account there too for my fics. 

https://www.fanfiction.net/u/1893398/Omegaxis1

I plan on doing things that surrounds Awakening. The first and foremost one is the story of Robin's mother. 

And there's one theory one shot regarding Morgan. 

[Ledrert]

Interesting. But I'll MP you there about that to stop the off-topic.

Well, great job to found out. I'm wondering if IS will do more about Grima... I mean, too bad we know that only on a mobile game...

[omegaxis1]

3 hours ago, Ledrert said:

Interesting. But I'll MP you there about that to stop the off-topic.

Well, great job to found out. I'm wondering if IS will do more about Grima... I mean, too bad we know that only on a mobile game...

My friend and I are worried that FE16 might end up being the story of the First Exalt.

[Arthur97]

4 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Anankos wasn't mistaking Shigure for the friend he killed. It was the first Vallite King that he mistook Shigure for, Cadros. The one that Anankos killed by mistake was Azura's father, which is what led Anankos to his madness. 

And you are correct, Anankos could actually qualify for a decent villain. Some of my issues with him is what he has done. They tried to portray him as this radically powerful god, that he could terraform an entire planet like it was nothing, undoing the ENTIRE damage that Grima had performed on the future world back to normal, with gravestones to boot. Then he goes and tries to underplay that power by saying that he cannot manipulate space-time nearly as much as Naga could, like he's saying that Naga is more powerful. Then they tried to make him be as big as Grima (failed by the way), and then go and create a black hole.

Oh, and Heirs of Fate made things worse by having Anankos be a multiversal conquerer and the song that defeats him is his creation that undid every damage and even revived the dead, despite Anankos saying that he cannot revive the dead. 

Is it that surprising? I mean, think about it, in Heroes, Grima HAS to talk to us, make voiced lines, and then have some kind of meaningful conversation with us at the LV40 dialogue.

Grima's size is apparently variable so...

Naga of that world also probably wasn't very well off for what it's worth. She wasn't at full power and still managed to warp space time to that degree (could work on the accuracy though). Also, the apples and oranges situation may apply. Warping space time is apparently in the upper echelon of power, but perhaps she just doesn't have terraforming powers. 

Or it's a mess and should be ignored.

[omegaxis1]

26 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Grima's size is apparently variable so...

I mean, his size dwarfs the Dragon's Table and Ylisstol, so it is rather gargantuan, and he is the actual map of the final chapter. 

27 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Naga of that world also probably wasn't very well off for what it's worth. She wasn't at full power and still managed to warp space time to that degree (could work on the accuracy though). Also, the apples and oranges situation may apply. Warping space time is apparently in the upper echelon of power, but perhaps she just doesn't have terraforming powers. 

But Anankos had terraformation and manipulation of space-time. Honestly, the case of space-time can somewhat make sense, since the theme is water, and there's the case of the "river of time" and whatnot. But it just feels inconsistent, as while Naga makes it clear of her limits, Anankos seems to show no limit for the sake of convenience, but then says he can't do this. 

28 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Or it's a mess and should be ignored.

Like the rest of Fates.

[Midnox]

Quite a great detail here. Grima was a truly bad generic doomsday villain, but that alone added miles of depth on him

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Midnox said:

Quite a great detail here. Grima was a truly bad generic doomsday villain, but that alone added miles of depth on him

The wonders of asking the single question, "Why?" and not answering it with, "Because I'm evil."

[Midnox]

6 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

The wonders of asking the single question, "Why?" and not answering it with, "Because I'm evil."

Not only that, but if you pay attention at the end of his confession, he may show fear towards any gesture of goodness towards him. If he where evil incarnate, he'd either don't give a crap, or use to his favor, but he instead got angry over simply being looked on sympathy 

[omegaxis1]

4 minutes ago, Midnox said:

Not only that, but if you pay attention at the end of his confession, he may show fear towards any gesture of goodness towards him. If he where evil incarnate, he'd either don't give a crap, or use to his favor, but he instead got angry over simply being looked on sympathy 

I was referring to Grima and the Grimleal before Heroes showed Grima and his quote. I kept asking why in regards to motivations in the Grimleal, and slowly, I began to understand them or theorize more on why they did what they did. 

As for Grima showing anger at anyone showing pity to him, that is a neat thing to note. Though Grima in Heroes seems to show both being Grima the evil dragon, and some parts that seem to feel like he's still Robin. 

[Arthur97]

46 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

I mean, his size dwarfs the Dragon's Table and Ylisstol, so it is rather gargantuan, and he is the actual map of the final chapter. 

But Anankos had terraformation and manipulation of space-time. Honestly, the case of space-time can somewhat make sense, since the theme is water, and there's the case of the "river of time" and whatnot. But it just feels inconsistent, as while Naga makes it clear of her limits, Anankos seems to show no limit for the sake of convenience, but then says he can't do this. 

Like the rest of Fates.

Actually, I'd say being the final map is smaller than dwarfing a city. Hence the variable size. Possibly linked to how much power Grima has accumulated.

But not as much manipulation. And the only real limits Naga puts on herself is that she isn't a god and that she cannot completely create or destroy. In other words, conversion of energy and mass still apply to her. That, and she can't kill Grima, but there's nothing to indicate that Anankos could do that either.

[omegaxis1]

3 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Actually, I'd say being the final map is smaller than dwarfing a city. Hence the variable size. Possibly linked to how much power Grima has accumulated.

Well, the final chapter had to translate it into gameplay, so I wouldn't say the size in terms of the gameplay is entirely accurate. But the animations clearly shows that his size is a vastly different case. Though even in the gameplay, we didn't see his full body size.

6 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

But not as much manipulation. And the only real limits Naga puts on herself is that she isn't a god and that she cannot completely create or destroy. In other words, conversion of energy and mass still apply to her. That, and she can't kill Grima, but there's nothing to indicate that Anankos could do that either.

Though its clear that Naga mostly just doesn't use her powers to destroy things most of the time. But we know that she can, as her Book of Naga and Falchion are incredibly powerful, and the Shield of Seals when used as a weapon could be used to create magic that can wreck a lot of havoc. 

[Arthur97]

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

Well, the final chapter had to translate it into gameplay, so I wouldn't say the size in terms of the gameplay is entirely accurate. But the animations clearly shows that his size is a vastly different case. Though even in the gameplay, we didn't see his full body size.

Though its clear that Naga mostly just doesn't use her powers to destroy things most of the time. But we know that she can, as her Book of Naga and Falchion are incredibly powerful, and the Shield of Seals when used as a weapon could be used to create magic that can wreck a lot of havoc. 

Still neither weapon, or at least not Falchion, destroys or creates matter. 

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Arthur97 said:

Still neither weapon, or at least not Falchion, destroys or creates matter. 

To be honest, the only one that I can imagine to be able to perform that feat is Ashunera. As even Ashera didn't show the power to create things from nothing or unmaking anything. But Ashunera is a goddess of creation that did create. 

However, I'm saying that Naga's power that can perform many feats, can easily use them for more destructive force, since her magical powers are very vast, and her spirit has even transcended death.

[Zangetsu]

10 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Anankos wasn't mistaking Shigure for the friend he killed. It was the first Vallite King that he mistook Shigure for, Cadros. The one that Anankos killed by mistake was Azura's father, which is what led Anankos to his madness. 

And you are correct, Anankos could actually qualify for a decent villain. Some of my issues with him is what he has done. They tried to portray him as this radically powerful god, that he could terraform an entire planet like it was nothing, undoing the ENTIRE damage that Grima had performed on the future world back to normal, with gravestones to boot. Then he goes and tries to underplay that power by saying that he cannot manipulate space-time nearly as much as Naga could, like he's saying that Naga is more powerful. Then they tried to make him be as big as Grima (failed by the way), and then go and create a black hole.

Oh, and Heirs of Fate made things worse by having Anankos be a multiversal conquerer and the song that defeats him is his creation that undid every damage and even revived the dead, despite Anankos saying that he cannot revive the dead.

Ah yes, that's right.

 

While I'm not going entirely disagree, I was under the impression that Anankos just made the "Future Past" timeline made into a peaceful world but there's no life anymore. Also I don't remember a black hole as so much giant lasers.

 

Also him being a multiversal conqueror sounds appealing, but it didn't work. At all.

At the time I overall thought he was better than Grima because of how fleshed out he was compare to Grima.

 

10 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Is it that surprising? I mean, think about it, in Heroes, Grima HAS to talk to us, make voiced lines, and then have some kind of meaningful conversation with us at the LV40 dialogue.

Given the god awful rep the most mobile game have, yes!

Mind you, this isn't a bad thing, but Awakening being favorite in the series, I do wish we did get to explore the Grimeals & closest we have is oddly enough your post.

[omegaxis1]

1 hour ago, Zangetsu said:

Ah yes, that's right.

While I'm not going entirely disagree, I was under the impression that Anankos just made the "Future Past" timeline made into a peaceful world but there's no life anymore. Also I don't remember a black hole as so much giant lasers.

Also him being a multiversal conqueror sounds appealing, but it didn't work. At all.

At the time I overall thought he was better than Grima because of how fleshed out he was compare to Grima.

He made the Awakening's Future Lucina's world be restored to normal. However, that isn't to say that the world was not lifeless. Grima didn't fully destroy humanity since he left prematurely. Given how much he hates humanity, he must have wanted to prolong their suffering as long as possible. After all, when you are cornered, you pray to the gods to save you, like Grima said is what humans do. Yet this time, they can pray, but the gods have abandoned them now. 

Anankos created something like a black hole when he turned into his dragon form. 

If this was Warriors, then it could have worked. This actually would have been Grima had he not been stopped. 

Only cause of that DLC Hidden Truths. But like Garon, we only hear of it, never see it. Grima though there is never a see with his good side, because he was evil from the get go, given his shitty life from day 1. 

1 hour ago, Zangetsu said:

Given the god awful rep the most mobile game have, yes!

Mind you, this isn't a bad thing, but Awakening being favorite in the series, I do wish we did get to explore the Grimeals & closest we have is oddly enough your post.

Yeah, but I personally felt that Heroes did a great job in handling most characters. So they got Grima done rather well, and similar to how I had him viewed by the Grimleal.

[Zangetsu]

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

He made the Awakening's Future Lucina's world be restored to normal. However, that isn't to say that the world was not lifeless. Grima didn't fully destroy humanity since he left prematurely. Given how much he hates humanity, he must have wanted to prolong their suffering as long as possible. After all, when you are cornered, you pray to the gods to save you, like Grima said is what humans do. Yet this time, they can pray, but the gods have abandoned them now.

I meant along the lines of Anankos just restoring peace as in there plants & animal roaming but humanity is gone. I'm basing this on what I heard from the Drama CD but I haven't completely finished yet. I'm at the part where they're about to rescue Lucina.

 

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

Anankos created something like a black hole when he turned into his dragon form. 

If this was Warriors, then it could have worked. This actually would have been Grima had he not been stopped. 

Only cause of that DLC Hidden Truths. But like Garon, we only hear of it, never see it. Grima though there is never a see with his good side, because he was evil from the get go, given his shitty life from day 1.

Was that not just some sort dimension traveling technique?

I don't it's even feasible to even fight Grima & do it justice. Even Asura's Wrath never allow to fight anyone to that big. That being said Anankos was supposedly as big as Grima & yet he never look that kind of size when you encounter him.

Speaking of Garon, I hope one day we do get to recruit him. Preferably during the time he was still married to Arete.

 

Overall, I'm really really satisfied that we finally get a fleshed out Grima.