Why is Grima so large?

[omegaxis1]

5 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Some how I've completely missed all this Accordion stuff, alongside the Book of Revelations. Researching now. What I find interesting (admittedly a little disappointing) is that Forneus was a human.  I, and a few others, used to assume he was a dragon, as Thabes was seen as 'the' ancient advanced civilization, so it was only natural to think it was the civilization of the ancient advanced dragons. But it was a city of humans destroyed by Duma. This also brings up another important point in that Gotoh only reintroduced magic to humans when he established Khaden, not long before the first game. So there's absolutely nothing stopping them making a game set in the era of the Earth Dragon war (that's something I actually argued intensely with someone before, can't remember who or where).

HA! In the end, I was right about Thabes being a human civilization and Forneus being human. 

[Jotari]

2 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

Holy hell, that's dark.
It's a damn shame we didn't get this full story in one of the games, though.

It could be a really unique setting for a game. Imagine it, a full game set entirely within this one massive city. Instead of a world map, you have a city map with various different sectors and districts that you battle through as you resist Duma's invading forces of dragons, while simultaneously trying to break through into Forneus' workshop to discover what the hell he's doing (and in case you think one local would lack diversity, there could easily be battles in the port, parks and surrounding desert. Hell if Thabes is really as awesome with magic as they seem to be, you could even have battles on floating islands and stuff above the city).

[omegaxis1]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

It could be a really unique setting for a game. Imagine it, a full game set entirely within this one massive city. Instead of a world map, you have a city map with various different sectors and districts that you battle through as you resist Duma's invading forces of dragons, while simultaneously trying to break through into Forneus' workshop to discover what the hell he's doing (and in case you think one local would lack diversity, there could easily be battles in the port, parks and surrounding desert. Hell if Thabes is really as awesome with magic as they seem to be, you could even have battles on floating islands and stuff above the city).

If that's the case, it's the shortest timespan in the entire franchise. It took 3 days before Duma destroyed them.

[DisobeyedCargo]

2 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

If that's the case, it's the shortest timespan in the entire franchise. It took 3 days before Duma destroyed them.

Wait woah woah is all of this new information? I don't remember reading any of this

[Jotari]

11 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

HA! In the end, I was right about Thabes being a human civilization and Forneus being human. 

In my defense, it wasn't a bad assumption! We had an ancient advanced civilization of dragons, and an ancient ruins of an advanced civilization. It's only occum's razor to assume it's the same ancient advance civilization. Naga even went there to die. Which before, seemed like it was because it's her natural resting place, but now it seems more like she went to the place that symbolized her greatest failure. Which is a bit more poignant.

7 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

If that's the case, it's the shortest timespan in the entire franchise. It took 3 days before Duma destroyed them.

Exactly. It could be really cool. One big battle, in one location with the time being measured in hours (for the sake of gameplay and story integration, fatigue is a must). It'd be like the way Blazing Blade focused on an entirely different, smaller conflict, only instead of the conflict being smaller, it's just the scope that's really small (but at the same time, kind of really large as an entire city is being wiped out, innocents and all).

4 minutes ago, DisobeyedCargo said:

Wait woah woah is all of this new information? I don't remember reading any of this

New to me, but apperantly it's been around since the Amiibo dungones. Someone started translating the artbook which reinterated the info recently, however.

https://serenesforest.net/fire-emblem-echoes-shadows-valentia/articles/valentian-revelations/

Edited April 12, 2018 by Jotari

[DragonFlames]

24 minutes ago, Jotari said:

It could be a really unique setting for a game. Imagine it, a full game set entirely within this one massive city. Instead of a world map, you have a city map with various different sectors and districts that you battle through as you resist Duma's invading forces of dragons, while simultaneously trying to break through into Forneus' workshop to discover what the hell he's doing (and in case you think one local would lack diversity, there could easily be battles in the port, parks and surrounding desert. Hell if Thabes is really as awesome with magic as they seem to be, you could even have battles on floating islands and stuff above the city).

That would be really awesome, actually.

It taking place in one city only wouldn't bother me, since I played Nights of Azure, which also takes place in a single city and manages to present diverse and interesting locales despite that. I imagine a Fire Emblem game like this would work just fine if the devs put the effort in. I'd play it for sure.

[Interdimensional Observer]

32 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Exactly. It could be really cool. One big battle, in one location with the time being measured in hours (for the sake of gameplay and story integration, fatigue is a must). It'd be like the way Blazing Blade focused on an entirely different, smaller conflict, only instead of the conflict being smaller, it's just the scope that's really small (but at the same time, kind of really large as an entire city is being wiped out, innocents and all).

A novel idea. It'd be difficult to cram Supports in here, and you have to make sure everything in those three days gets a good explanation instead of being just a bewildering narrative (a FFXIII criticism- two days and you have to look up everything in a book of lore because the plot never stops to say what an X or a Z is).

With Thabes Labyrinth being underground, maybe include a vast underground network to the city to provide a lot more different battle spaces? Duma is relentless on the surface, but people can hold onto the underground?

If they really wanted to, they could extend things a little into the 9 Naga vs. Mila and Duma days thereafter. It doesn't say they fought in Thabes, nor that it happened the moment after the 3 Duma days in Thabes past, and it says the humans evacuated the city, but a few stragglers unable to escape, wanting to get to Naga but trapped with Duma and Mila sounds okayish.

[Jotari]

6 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

A novel idea. It'd be difficult to cram Supports in here, and you have to make sure everything in those three days gets a good explanation instead of being just a bewildering narrative (a FFXIII criticism- two days and you have to look up everything in a book of lore because the plot never stops to say what an X or a Z is).

With Thabes Labyrinth being underground, maybe include a vast underground network to the city to provide a lot more different battle spaces? Duma is relentless on the surface, but people can hold onto the underground?

If they really wanted to, they could extend things a little into the 9 Naga vs. Mila and Duma days thereafter. It doesn't say they fought in Thabes, nor that it happened the moment after the 3 Duma days in Thabes past, and it says the humans evacuated the city, but a few stragglers unable to escape, wanting to get to Naga but trapped with Duma and Mila sounds okayish.

Regarding supports, something like Path of Radiance would be vital. In that game, supports are acquired based on shared deployment maps. So you can plan very precisely when a support becomes available in the story. So like one character might start unlocking their B supports only after the chapter where their home district has been attacked and all their friends and family are likely dead. Or in other words, you could build the supports so they weave into the narrative. The characters are also basically facing a version of the apocalypse as the very gods themselves have turned on them, so there's a lot to get all emotional and reminiscent about.

Edited April 12, 2018 by Jotari

[Ottservia]

honestly if they were going to do anything regarding Forneus and the story of Grima’s creation it would make the most sense if it were an anime OVA or maybe a drama CD or manga.

[Zangetsu]

19 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

Well, it's not quite SMT, but the final boss of Persona 5 is at least as tall as a skyscraper.
It's hard to make assumptions about creature sizes in vanilla SMT4, since you rarely see them alongside humans in battle (though I've heard SMT3 is an exception to this). Though I assume the two final bosses are quite large, because they fill up the entire screen. Definitely not Grima level, though.

Why shouldn't I interpret that being larger than say a galaxy? I heard crazy things happen in the world of Shin Megami Tensei. I mean I'm still under the impression that Giygas is deceptively as big as a planet but you can't comprehend it.

[DragonFlames]

46 minutes ago, Zangetsu said:

Why shouldn't I interpret that being larger than say a galaxy? I heard crazy things happen in the world of Shin Megami Tensei. I mean I'm still under the impression that Giygas is deceptively as big as a planet but you can't comprehend it.

Well, for one thing, without getting into too many spoilers, one of them fits into a castle where the doors are about twice the height of the main character and he has to get around somehow, so... I wouldn't put his size at anything more than maybe twice an average human. As for the other one, I'd peck him at about the same size for reasons I sadly can't say because we would enter full on spoiler territory.

[Zangetsu]

37 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

Well, for one thing, without getting into too many spoilers, one of them fits into a castle where the doors are about twice the height of the main character and he has to get around somehow, so... I wouldn't put his size at anything more than maybe twice an average human. As for the other one, I'd peck him at about the same size for reasons I sadly can't say because we would enter full on spoiler territory.

Then if you don't mind, could you pm me about it?

Edited April 13, 2018 by Zangetsu

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Zangetsu said:

Then if you don't mind, could you pm me about it?

Or just put it in a spoiler tag, because I'm kind of curious too and don't care about SMT spoilers.

[Jotari]

On 4/12/2018 at 2:06 PM, Jotari said:

It could be a really unique setting for a game. Imagine it, a full game set entirely within this one massive city. Instead of a world map, you have a city map with various different sectors and districts that you battle through as you resist Duma's invading forces of dragons, while simultaneously trying to break through into Forneus' workshop to discover what the hell he's doing (and in case you think one local would lack diversity, there could easily be battles in the port, parks and surrounding desert. Hell if Thabes is really as awesome with magic as they seem to be, you could even have battles on floating islands and stuff above the city).

Thinking on this idea again, Forneus somehow managed to gain Divine Dragon blood to kill Grima. What is Duma wasn't just afraid of humans getting too powerful, but was pissed because the humans killed someone close to him.

[omegaxis1]

3 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Thinking on this idea again, Forneus somehow managed to gain Divine Dragon blood to kill Grima. What is Duma wasn't just afraid of humans getting too powerful, but was pissed because the humans killed someone close to him.

Doubtful. The reason being is that the ones telling us this story are the ones that are extensions of Duma and Mila's will.

[Jotari]

Just now, omegaxis1 said:

Doubtful. The reason being is that the ones telling us this story are the ones that are extensions of Duma and Mila's will.

You can have more than one reason for doing something.

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Jotari said:

You can have more than one reason for doing something.

Sure, but would the humans actually make an attack on a dragon? The dragonkind are the ones that gave the humans the knowledge to build it. They would not be foolish enough to kill a dragon since that provokes war, and clearly as we've seen, Thabes is not truly able to wage said war against them since it took a mere 3 days to be wiped out.

Not to mention, dragons are already indicating they are not so easily killed. So a Divine Dragon being killed is far less likely.

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

Sure, but would the humans actually make an attack on a dragon? The dragonkind are the ones that gave the humans the knowledge to build it. They would not be foolish enough to kill a dragon since that provokes war, and clearly as we've seen, Thabes is not truly able to wage said war against them since it took a mere 3 days to be wiped out.

Not to mention, dragons are already indicating they are not so easily killed. So a Divine Dragon being killed is far less likely.

Well Forenus got the blood somewhere. The only other alternative is that there was a divine dragon who willingly contributed to the creation of Grima.

[omegaxis1]

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

Well Forenus got the blood somewhere. The only other alternative is that there was a divine dragon who willingly contributed to the creation of Grima.

Well, what if the Divine Dragons gave some blood to the human of Thabes along with the Sage's Shield as a sign of goodwill? Thabes was the first human civilization that had been created, after all. 

If the Divine Dragon blood had been given to Senate, then the risk Forneus took to get the blood was stealing it from the Senate itself.