Ideas for Handling Future Seasonal Banners/Older Units

[Mercakete]

Obviously, as time goes on, seasonal units (which are only available on legendary banners and special seasonal banners) will start to kind of crowd their respective seasons, and the wait list for legendary banners is going to get a little ridiculous. Being free to play, their exclusivity makes it hard to obtain these units, especially as, often times, I don't get any of them, let alone the ones I'm pulling for. These brought the following concern to mind: what if certain units I pull for, but never get, become retired? Then, despite my efforts, I'll never be able to add them to my roster. This, in turn, led to wondering how IS could potentially handle older seasonal units going forward for those of us who like them.

Solution 1: Add the older units (2 years old or more) to the 3* and 4* summoning pools exclusively on legendary banners and on their respective seasonal banners.

Given that newer units are generally more powerful/easier to use than older units, I don't see why older units can't be included as lower-tier units for new banners. Since they're seasonal and somewhat exclusive, they can still remain available only on their season's banners and potentially on legendary banners. For example, Spring Exalt Chrom is a gen 1 spring unit. This upcoming set of banners featuring new spring units could add him to the 4* summoning pool, and in the following year, perhaps, the 3* summoning pool, but only for spring banners in order to keep them special/seasonal. Kind of like how getting Christmas presents only on Christmas keeps that holiday unique and special, getting units that correlate with the current season helps set a festive mood, and I, personally, think it'd be great to keep that. For example, as nice as it was to get Summer Xander, it was really weird to get him around Christmas/New Years/in the dead of winter. I just kept thinking about how cold the poor guy must be. Anyway, this is my favored solution.

Solution 2: Make seasonal units "3 heroes" units.

This also plays off of the 3-4* idea. Usually, "3 heroes" are picked at random, it seems. (I believe Adult Tiki has been featured twice.) Why not have a seasonal rotation for week-long "4 seasonal heroes" quests for older seasonal heroes? This solution assumes that the older seasonal heroes are not run in banners anymore, and provides a way for players to get those units that may no longer be as useful to gameplay, but were never obtained by those who just want the character. I like this solution, but I don't think it's nearly as likely as Solution 1, at least not until this game has been running for a few more years.

Solution 3: "Seasonal Festival Blowout" banners.

In a way, these are reminiscent of Legendary banners, and yet was inspired by the Illusory Dungeon extra stage with all the spring units. Basically, all units ever released for a particular season (perhaps outside of the latest batch) would be available on one banner during their home season. Only those units would be available for 5* summoning, and at an increased percentage in order to avoid trouble with pulling units in the same color pool. This still isn't completely balanced as some seasons just have more units of a particular color than other units of a different color. But a sort of "season blowout" could also be fun, and really carries the "festival" feel. Of these three, this is the solution I favor the least, but I still think it'd be fun.

So, what do you think? Do any of these ideas appeal to you? Have any other ideas? Post them here!

Please note that "get rid of seasonal heroes" is not a solution according to the topic of this particular thread. I understand that some people don't like seasonal heroes at all, but this thread is for people who do and would like to find some way to obtain ones from years gone by.

Happy discussing, everyone!

[Ice Dragon]

I've been under the idea that seasonal banners should add the older seasonal banner characters to their 4-to-5-star pool. For example, Halloween 3 would have the Halloween 3 characters in the focus pool and the Trick or Defeat! characters in the 4-to-5-star pool.

[RexBolt]

17 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

I've been under the idea that seasonal banners should add the older seasonal banner characters to their 4-to-5-star pool. For example, Halloween 3 would have the Halloween 3 characters in the focus pool and the Trick or Defeat! characters in the 4-to-5-star pool.

Same thing. Maybe if it is a really common idea there's a chance to IS do it?

It make's so people have more reasons to pull from seasonal banners, not only for the 5*, but also helps fight the overcrowding of banners that even the third option would help.

At least i have heard recently about too many banners running at once. Not sure if its an actual problem for the game.

Edited October 12, 2018 by RexBolt

[Vaximillian]

If it’s absolutely necessary to keep the seasonals around (which it apparently is according to the premise of the thread), then the mix of solution 1 and solution 3 would be the best way to go. The seasonals are kept in their seasonal cesspool and are hopefully even kept out from the 8% banner for the sake of those (like me) who doesn’t want to risk accidentally pulling them ever. Solution 2 would be the best for those who do want to get those but won’t happen because they aren’t going to just give away limited units. Don’t forget that the Three Heroes only feature the three-and-four-star units, after all.

[Ice Dragon]

16 minutes ago, RexBolt said:

Same thing. Maybe if it is a really common idea there's a chance to IS do it?

It make's so people have more reasons to pull from seasonal banners, not only for the 5*, but also helps fight the overcrowding of banners that even the third option would help.

At least i have heard recently about too many banners running at once. Not sure if its an actual problem for the game.

More banners is more free pulls, so I don't mind there being too many banners. However, for me, this really only applies to non-limited banners.

More limited banners, by virtue of being limited, will split players' orbs between them if there are characters they want from multiple banners. This is obviously advantageous for making money, but it will eventually just look silly, especially if older characters end up becoming more obsolete (either in actual performance or by having skills that are no longer in demand).

Hence why I think it makes sense to put limited characters from 2 years or more prior into the 4-star pool for their corresponding new seasonal banners, noting, however, that due to the dilution of the 4-star pool you typically have a higher chance of pulling a focus character than an individual 4-star character.

Edited October 12, 2018 by Ice Dragon

[GrandeRampel]

One thing to consider is that not all seasonal units are created equal. In the very first seasonal banner we had Spring!Xander who sucked even back then and is still maybe the worst horse in the game. And at the same time we had Spring!Camilla, which is still a very desirable unit by virtue of being one of the only two Green Mage Flyers in the game, together with Bride!Sanaki.

If all the old seasonal units were on the level of Spring!Xander, it would make sense to think "they are old and shitty, they can just give them to everyone" and go with Solution 2, but that's simply not the truth. For the same reason, I think it's unlikely that they will add them as 3-4 stars. Solution 3 is the more realistic imho.

[Dayni]

4 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

And at the same time we had Spring!Camilla, which is still a very desirable unit by virtue of being one of the only two Green Mage Flyers in the game, together with Bride!Sanaki.

You forgot Peganino. Camilla has a niche with good defensive stats, but I've never liked her much.

And I just want some way to get Chrissa without feeling like I'll get something else (The legendary banner is still a dark day). I think #3 is the most likely, having 4 summer banners at once this year could be seen as an issue next year.

[Ice Dragon]

7 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

In the very first seasonal banner we had Spring!Xander who sucked even back then and is still maybe the worst horse in the game.

Gamepedia currently lists Spring Xander above Camus, Clive, Finn, and Mathilda, which is an assessment I agree with.

He runs pretty much the same build as Florina and Jagen (just with Def and Res swapped), using his high bulk and low Spd to charge a stronger Special:

Spring Xander [+Def, -Spd] / [+Res, -Spd] (Slaying Lance+ [Def / Res], Ignis, Distant Counter / Close Def 3, Guard 3, Quick Riposte 3)

[Landmaster]

Idea 3 seems the best to me. Basically a Legendary Banner with all Seasonals together. Like, I agree at a certain point, say Summer, they're going to be rerunning 4 banners in addition to possibly 2 new ones, which is way too many. I think (as much as I would hate the color shares) they should throw all the oldies under one rerun Banner and keep the new ones on their debut banners separately. It would even be more beneficial because there'd be no chance of being cockblocked by any other 5*s~

[GrandeRampel]

17 minutes ago, Dayni said:

You forgot Peganino.

 

 

Oh yeah, you're right. So this means Red Mage Flyer is the last one to get in the general pool. Aversa can't come soon enough.

 

7 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Gamepedia currently lists Spring Xander above Camus, Clive, Finn, and Mathilda, which is an assessment I agree with.

He runs pretty much the same build as Florina and Jagen (just with Def and Res swapped), using his high bulk and low Spd to charge a stronger Special:

Spring Xander [+Def, -Spd] / [+Res, -Spd] (Slaying Lance+ [Def / Res], Ignis, Distant Counter / Close Def 3, Guard 3, Quick Riposte 3)

Oh wow, just shows you how much I actually know about the metagame (nothing). But if it's not Spring!Xander, who is the true worst GEN 1 Seasonal?

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

Oh wow, just shows you how much I actually know about the metagame (nothing).

Nah, that's just a sleeper build that people normally don't think about using. The units that dumped both Atk and Spd for sky-high defenses are typically underestimated.

 

4 minutes ago, GrandeRampel said:

But if it's not Spring!Xander, who is the true worst GEN 1 Seasonal?

It's probably a toss-up between Spring Xander and Summer Gaius.

Note that I'm mentioning Spring Xander here because, while he isn't the worst cavalry in the game, he's still at the bottom of the seasonal totem pole. Gaius isn't horrible as far as bows go, but bows are in a rough position right now.

[RexBolt]

4 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Gaius isn't horrible as far as bows go, but bows are in a rough position right now.

Why are they in a rough position? Is it because armors have high defense while most archers can't take the distant counters they trown? Maybe some bows with adaptative damage could help. Or maybe armor-slaying bows.

[Ice Dragon]

6 minutes ago, RexBolt said:

Why are they in a rough position? Is it because armors have high defense while most archers can't take the distant counters they trown? Maybe some bows with adaptative damage could help. Or maybe armor-slaying bows.

The increase in bulk in general has made it so that player-phase-only units have a much harder time dealing with those opponents. Additionally, with the increase in the prevalence of Special cooldown acceleration, it's riskier to attack units that you cannot kill in a single round of combat.

Adaptive damage would only help a little because many of the units bows have problems with also have at least passable Res, and there's also no reason outside of gameplay to allow them the ability to do so (Shining Bow has an argument for it, but they used the Light Brand effect instead). Armor-effective bows still aren't strong enough to guarantee one-hit kills against the bulkiest of armors currently seen and also don't help with non-armored bulky units, like infantry dragons.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

When they made the 4* focus unit banners, I thought for sure that's how they'd handle seasonal reruns. Not only was I wrong, even the idea of 4 star focus banners has been retired within a few short months. Ouch. Still wish they'd go with this idea though. I know that may seem like waaaayyyy too generous an idea for redistributing these units but I want to fill up my Catalogue and I can't do that if there's nothing to spend orbs on. So give us something, IS. The extremely low chance of getting them on Legendary Banners has completely swayed my orb spending habits.

[Zihark11]

i mean rather then do that i think they should give you more orbs for your money. Ive bought a couple promotion packages but other then that im free to play because it feels like a rip off. if they gave an actual good amount of orbs for the money your spending i think this wouldnt even be an issue.

[Corrobin]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

The increase in bulk in general has made it so that player-phase-only units have a much harder time dealing with those opponents. Additionally, with the increase in the prevalence of Special cooldown acceleration, it's riskier to attack units that you cannot kill in a single round of combat.

Adaptive damage would only help a little because many of the units bows have problems with also have at least passable Res, and there's also no reason outside of gameplay to allow them the ability to do so (Shining Bow has an argument for it, but they used the Light Brand effect instead). Armor-effective bows still aren't strong enough to guarantee one-hit kills against the bulkiest of armors currently seen and also don't help with non-armored bulky units, like infantry dragons.

Unrelated to a slight extent, given Armor prevalence, but how much would a horse-effective Bow help the archer situation?

[Ice Dragon]

4 minutes ago, Corrobin said:

Unrelated to a slight extent, given Armor prevalence, but how much would a horse-effective Bow help the archer situation?

Not much if at all. The difficult part of enemy cavalry has never been killing them.

[XRay]

4 hours ago, RexBolt said:

Why are they in a rough position? Is it because armors have high defense while most archers can't take the distant counters they trown? Maybe some bows with adaptative damage could help. Or maybe armor-slaying bows.

As a Player Phase player, in my opinion, ranged units are not really in that rough a spot combat wise. Dragons and armors did get harder to kill with Weapon Refinery and gen II stats, but their bulk did not increase so much that it affected the difficulty of Arena. We also have access to Firesweep nukes to shutdown any problematic enemy. For us, what is rough is that we are being punished score wise for using ranged units.

In terms of the tier list where they are overweighing raw performance in my opinion, then yeah, ranged units took a pretty big hit in rating due to lower raw combat performance. In actual practice, Player Phase teams still have a pretty ridiculously easy time in Arena and Arena Assault and the biggest difficulty we have is not combat, but scoring.

Cavalry effective bow does not really do anything for ranged units. Ranged ponies' greatest power lies in their mobility and offensive reach. If you limit their mobility they instantly pose about as much threat as infantry and armor, which means they are not very threatening at all. With the release of trenches in new Arena maps, cavalry teams become a non issue. For old Arena maps, pony teams are more of a problem in the cramped maps, but if you have flying nukes, then it becomes pretty easy to deal with them too as you have more areas to Reposition your units to and avoid them.

Edited October 12, 2018 by XRay

[Poimagic]

I actually liked idea number 3. Seems like an interesting idea. I’d certainly like, but I’m not sure about others. Idea 1 could also work