Conquest tiering discussion

[Steeles4500]

OK i eventually managed to not miss enough to beat ch7 with this horrible luck but arthur and silas got no XP
Corrin is too frail and slow to nostank, her speed and mag are still base even though she is +mag and level 12

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Steeles4500 said:

OK i eventually managed to not miss enough to beat ch7 with this horrible luck but arthur and silas got no XP
Corrin is too frail and slow to nostank, her speed and mag are still base even though she is +mag and level 12

I have one word for that: Ouch.

[joshcja]

4 hours ago, Steeles4500 said:

OK i eventually managed to not miss enough to beat ch7 with this horrible luck but arthur and silas got no XP
Corrin is too frail and slow to nostank, her speed and mag are still base even though she is +mag and level 12

Arthur's hitrate should never actually matter on ch7. If it's really upsetting you that much smuggle in a bronze axe.

Why is +MagCorn trying to Nostank?

How the living actual HELL does Silias get no Exp in 7?

Edited January 27, 2019 by joshcja

[Steeles4500]

23 minutes ago, joshcja said:

Arthur's hitrate should never actually matter on ch7. If it's really upsetting you that much smuggle in a bronze axe.

Why is +MagCorn trying to Nostank?

How the living actual HELL does Silias get no Exp in 7?

how do you smuggle a bronze axe when you need the tonic from the staff shop to double the faceless with a jakob pairup.
silas didnt get any xp becuase he constantly missed. it was just godawful rng, dont really worry about it
just throw me the strats im supposed to break the game with highy doubt your ideas.

EDIT: before you ask, he was missing because i was trying to train his lance rank.

Edited January 27, 2019 by Steeles4500

[joshcja]

1 minute ago, Steeles4500 said:

how do you smuggle a bronze axe when you need the tonic from the staff shop to double the faceless with a jakob pairup.
silas didnt get any xp becuase he constantly missed. it was just godawful rng, dont really worry about it
just throw me the strats im supposed to break the game with highy doubt your ideas.

Silias has 100% hit in attack stance with Elise....

Do a visit for the DV point?

It's ch7. The only varient strat's use Wyvern Elise over Stavebot Elise.

[Steeles4500]

Just now, joshcja said:

Silias has 100% hit in attack stance with Elise....

Do a visit for the DV point?

It's ch7. The only varient strat's use Wyvern Elise over Stavebot Elise.

I meant strat for the overall game, and like i just made the edit i was trying to train his lance rank so there was a miss chance.

I almost flatout refuse to use wyvern elise. It just doesnt make sense. She might be able to barely hit benchmarks early game but with stats like that no amount of bolt axe malig is gonna make you work as an EP unit.

[joshcja]

47 minutes ago, Steeles4500 said:

I meant strat for the overall game, and like i just made the edit i was trying to train his lance rank so there was a miss chance.

I almost flatout refuse to use wyvern elise. It just doesnt make sense. She might be able to barely hit benchmarks early game but with stats like that no amount of bolt axe malig is gonna make you work as an EP unit.

94% hit over 7+ combats is a lot to miss.

Easiest overall strat to shift into is simply subbing Silias for Jakob on a +str Corn with 4 str statues. He can take that setup and reliably clear every map in the game including ch28 no-proc. It's like jakobdin, except better in every way.

The general strat is 4 early pairings and stack to high hell filling in empty slots with kids/captures/Xander/dancer. Unit choice is pretty irrelevant past that as any combination of 4 early is sufficent to efficently clear the game.

It's not complicated.

Intentionally sleeping on unit's like WElise is thilly :p

Edited January 27, 2019 by joshcja

[starburst]

14 hours ago, Steeles4500 said:

Corrin is too frail and slow to nostank, her speed and mag are still base even though she is +mag and level 12

But +Mag Cornflakes kills everything with the Dragon Stone until mid-game (where you start building her tome rank) and once again with the Dragon Stone+ (for enemies that she cannot already double with tomes.) Why make her a Dark Mage? If anything, since you value movement, go Cavalier with Levin Sword, or make her a Dark Knight later.

In Ch 10, Odin (with or without Nosferatu, it does not matter) and Dragon Stone Corrin can tank the Oni waves indefinitely, east or west. And since Corrinette normally one-hits them, I let Odin get some levels. This is one of those sections where you can test a Walking Dead Odin.

As a Nohr Noble, with Horse Spirit and basically any companion in Guard Stance, Cornwall is tanky enough and powerful enough to take the first wave in the roof of Ch 23, and to be the vanguard in the bottom room of Ch 26. (I even do this with -Def, but I guess that you picked -Luck.)

 

10 hours ago, Steeles4500 said:

just throw me the strats im supposed to break the game with highy doubt your ideas.

And do not be suspicious. He he. Why would we (anyone) lie about such banal things? In trivial matters like this, if someone tells you that they have repeatedly accomplished something and can reproduce it, it is a fact for that person. No matter what the theory or the numbers say, it will be a theoretical doubt against their facts, their experience. You could reproduce it and draw your own conclusions, but nothing you do can change what already happened to them.

Since this is getting specific, we could create a thread in the ‘Let’s Stream’ section or such, where we can throw ideas for each chapter. How does that sound?

Edited January 27, 2019 by starburst
Grammar.

[Azure the Scale Tipper]

So, when I decide to do this, I want to know the better path to MK Elise.

Auto-reclass to WR before promoting to MK, or reclass  to MK after promoting to Strategist?

[starburst]

1 hour ago, Azure the Scale Tipper said:

So, when I decide to do this, I want to know the better path to MK Elise.
Auto-reclass to WR before promoting to MK, or reclass  to MK after promoting to Strategist?

Re-class her early/ immediately to start getting weapon ranks and then use the Bolt Axe and tomes as Malig Knight. Give her Bronze Axe forges.
I still prefer Strategist Elise, but Wyvern Elise is a fun change. (Strategist Anna is a copycat of Strategist Elise, but without the -3/+1 Personal skill.)

[Steeles4500]

2 hours ago, starburst said:

But +Mag Cornflakes kills everything with the Dragon Stone until mid-game (where you start building her tome rank) and once again with the Dragon Stone+ (for enemies that she cannot already double with tomes.) Why make her a Dark Mage? If anything, since you value movement, go Cavalier with Levin Sword, or make her a Dark Knight later.

In Ch 10, Odin (with or without Nosferatu, it does not matter) and Dragon Stone Corrin can tank the Oni waves indefinitely, east or west. And since Corrinette normally one-hits them, I let Odin get some levels. This is one of those sections where you can test a Walking Dead Odin.

As a Nohr Noble, with Horse Spirit and basically any companion in Guard Stance, Cornwall is tanky enough and powerful enough to take the first wave in the roof of Ch 23, and to be the vanguard in the bottom room of Ch 26. (I even do this with -Def, but I guess that you picked -Luck.)

 

And do not be suspicious. He he. Why would we (anyone) lie about such banal things? In trivial matters like this, if someone tells you that they have repeatedly accomplished something and can reproduce it, it is a fact for that person. No matter what the theory or the numbers say, it will be a theoretical doubt against their facts, their experience. You could reproduce it and draw your own conclusions, but nothing you do can change what already happened to them.

Since this is getting specific, we could create a thread in the ‘Let’s Stream’ section or such, where we can throw ideas for each chapter. How does that sound?

Ah lol i don't think your lying, im suspicous some of the idea would work.

Ill go ahead and do wyvern elise although i really cant think of what to do with her later in the game. I was going for a +mag corrin to try and get her to nostank but i can go +str berserker or something just as well, maybe make a good bot to someone later in the game.

+mag cavailer is a build i think is just sorta bad, better to be a wyvern and then class the cav skills off a A+ later, and give jakob the busted wyvern skills if your doin that.

Ill do the whole branch segment again since my corrin is mega screwed. If its not a good idea to go DM and marry odin id just go wyvern and marry jakob anyway.

[starburst]

1 hour ago, Steeles4500 said:

Ill go ahead and do wyvern elise although i really cant think of what to do with her later in the game. I was going for a +mag corrin to try and get her to nostank but i can go +str berserker or something just as well, maybe make a good bot to someone later in the game.

Ask joshcja about the thresholds to reach to get the most out of Wyvern Elise. I use that build for fun and not for efficiency.

 

1 hour ago, Steeles4500 said:

+mag cavailer is a build i think is just sorta bad, better to be a wyvern and then class the cav skills off a A+ later, and give jakob the busted wyvern skills if your doin that.

As a Wyvern, you would lose access to Yato, use Bronze Axes for a couple of chapters, and get some extra bulk that you do not even need. But, yeah, it works anyway. I will let others help you with this, since I let my +Mag Cornflakes stay as Nohr Noble until L5 anyway.

 

1 hour ago, Steeles4500 said:

Ill do the whole branch segment again since my corrin is mega screwed. If its not a good idea to go DM and marry odin id just go wyvern and marry jakob anyway.

The thing is that if you marry Odin, the Dark Mage talent is redundant (unless you want him to be a Japanese magician.) I marry them all the time, but I prefer to use Corrin's talent for classes that help the family. For example Oni, so that Odin gets bulky as fuck as Oni Chieftain (father and daughter also like the L5 skill); Samurai, to save on early Heart Seals and build Vantage-Vengeance Sorcerers; Pegasus, to get the +5 Speed skill super early and make Odin and Ophelia double everyone; even Archer, to get +4 Attack on both mages early. For a magic-oriented family, Wyvern is not that efficient, since the growths and first two skills are irrelevant to father and daughter, and Savage Blow just a nice touch on Player Phase units. It only pays when used late-game, for Trample.

Edited January 27, 2019 by starburst

[Azure the Scale Tipper]

26 minutes ago, starburst said:

Ask joshcja about the thresholds to reach to get the most out of Wyvern Elise. I use that build for fun and not for efficiency.

I’ll do the same when I eventually do that for fun.

26 minutes ago, starburst said:

As a Wyvern, you would lose access to Yato, use Bronze Axes for a couple of chapters, and get some extra bulk that you do not even need. But, yeah, it works anyway. I will let others help you with this, since I let my +Mag Cornflakes stay as Nohr Noble until L5 anyway.

Yeah, Dragon talent seems better for letting others reclass to WL (like Jakob, Odin, maybe even Arthur, etc.). I kind of want to do full Nohr Noble, but I do not know how effective that is.

26 minutes ago, starburst said:

The thing is that if you marry Odin, the Dark Mage talent is redundant (unless you want him to be a Japanese magician.) I marry them all the time, but I prefer to use Corrin's talent for classes that help the family. For example Oni, so that Odin gets bulky as fuck as Oni Chieftain (father and daughter also like the L5 skill); Samurai, to save on early Heart Seals and build Vantage-Vengeance Sorcerers; Pegasus, to get the +5 Speed skill super early and make Odin and Ophelia double everyone; even Archer, to get +4 Attack on both mages early. For a magic-oriented family, Wyvern is not that efficient, since the growths and first two skills are irrelevant to father and daughter, and Savage Blow just a nice touch on Player Phase units. It only pays when used late-game, for Trample.

What about Diviner? That even has Tomefaire (though it’s pretty late).

Btw, I do feel that a Benny-fathered Kana is good for a bulky Dragonstone build (with Wary Fighter, Draconic Curse, and all).

Edited January 27, 2019 by Azure the Scale Tipper

[Steeles4500]

2 minutes ago, Azure the Scale Tipper said:

I’ll do the same when I eventually do that for fun.

Yeah, Dragon talent seems better for letting others reclass to WL (like Jakob, Odin, maybe even Arthur, etc.). I kind of want to do full Nohr Noble, but I do not know how effective that is.

What about Diviner? That even has Tomefaire (though it’s pretty late).

Btw, I do feel that a Benny-fathered Kana is good for a bulky Dragonstone build (with Wary Fighter, Draconic Curse, and all).

Wyvern is a fantastic class anyways, you get flight and axes rank as well as good bases and a magical promotion option. Malig is broke, so is +str WL.

I thought about diviner, it might work but it sorta gimps corrin to make ophie stronger which i dont like. Nohr Noble is a footlock so it sucks.

Benny Fathered Kannas would come pretty late, its still kana so its sucks, and its a defensive tank build which is really bad. Why do that when you can just be tanky enough and ORKO everything at 1-2 range with flight?. Draco curse skill is one of the worst in the game because if your unit isnt ORKOing past the very early game then he needs to hit the bench unless hes a nostank.

[Azure the Scale Tipper]

2 minutes ago, Steeles4500 said:

Wyvern is a fantastic class anyways, you get flight and axes rank as well as good bases and a magical promotion option. Malig is broke, so is +str WL.

I thought about diviner, it might work but it sorta gimps corrin to make ophie stronger which i dont like. Nohr Noble is a footlock so it sucks.

Benny Fathered Kannas would come pretty late, its still kana so its sucks, and its a defensive tank build which is really bad. Why do that when you can just be tanky enough and ORKO everything at 1-2 range with flight?. Draco curse skill is one of the worst in the game because if your unit isnt ORKOing past the very early game then he needs to hit the bench unless hes a nostank.

Ok, gotcha. Guess Paladin or GK is my best bet. +Mag -Luck still good for that? I still want to use Yato.

[joshcja]

To be fair it's not like Odin/Ophy care what Corndog brings. They've got a standard set of Mal/HS/Riposte/Vantage/LaD and only Shuikenbreaker or a +5 help Odin at all. Ophy can jack skills from gen2's so, eh.

Elise likes to marry into heartseeker for obvious reasons. Past that Bolt Axe MT is so stupidbork that we never really need more than +7 with Elise's cracked out mag/speed. She is fond of skill books and is on the list of units who enjoy Hp tonics/Robe.

Divine isn't awful because early 1-2 and we can just jack any class in the game so *shrug*. Nhorble is a perfectly tolerable class.

Edited January 27, 2019 by joshcja

[Steeles4500]

1 minute ago, joshcja said:

To be fair it's not like Odin/Ophy care what Corndog brings. They've got a standard set of Mal/HS/Riposte/Vantage/LaD and only Shuikenbreaker or a +5 help Odin at all. Ophy can jack skills from gen2's so, eh.

Elise likes to marry into heartseeker for obvious reasons. Past that Bolt Axe MT is so stupidbork that we never really need more than +7 with Elise's cracked out mag/speed. She is fond of skill books and is on the list of units who enjoy Hp tonics/Robe.

Her defense is still bad, so shes not gonna be an EP god, and i dont really see the point in deploying any non EP god units besides utility past ch10.

Also combine her skill with the bolt axe fe6 level hit and it gets pretty rough. Where even are the skill book in this game?

[Azure the Scale Tipper]

1 minute ago, joshcja said:

Elise likes to marry into heartseeker for obvious reasons. Past that Bolt Axe MT is so stupidbork that we never really need more than +7 with Elise's cracked out mag/speed. She is fond of skill books and is on the list of units who enjoy Hp tonics/Robe.

You’ll even be able to get extra Tome rank on the way while doing Kana’s paralogue (I did hear here that Kana’s paralogue is best for odd reclasses for skills and such) for Malefic Aura if you need to.

[Steeles4500]

3 minutes ago, Azure the Scale Tipper said:

Ok, gotcha. Guess Paladin or GK is my best bet. +Mag -Luck still good for that? I still want to use Yato.

You shouldn't remotely care about the yato, there is nothing special about it.

+mag paladin is strictly inferior to +mag wyvern, although id say play through the branch with +spd to hit early benchmarks

[Azure the Scale Tipper]

@Steeles4500 What if I want to use Yato?

Edited January 27, 2019 by Azure the Scale Tipper

[Steeles4500]

1 minute ago, Azure the Scale Tipper said:

@Steeles4500 What if I want to use Yato?

If for whatever reason you really wanna use the yato, still go wyvern and A+ peri or something to get cav. Wyvern stuff is just too good to pass up.

 

[joshcja]

1 minute ago, Steeles4500 said:

Her defense is still bad, so shes not gonna be an EP god, and i dont really see the point in deploying any non EP god units besides utility past ch10.

Also combine her skill with the bolt axe fe6 level hit and it gets pretty rough. Where even are the skill book in this game?

Elise is utility.

Poise+Demosel+Sblow/Inspiration with lunge access. Lemme just stack another +3/+7 or more.

[Steeles4500]

2 minutes ago, joshcja said:

Elise is utility.

Poise+Demosel+Sblow/Inspiration with lunge access. Lemme just stack another +3/+7 or more.

Ah i see, shes a player phase unit.
Really there is not point to having those tbh, no reason to use attack stance past ch10 when you can easily guard stance the rest of the game to victory.

[Shadow Mir]

4 hours ago, starburst said:

And do not be suspicious. He he. Why would we (anyone) lie about such banal things?

From where I'm standing, blindly trusting someone is even worse. Being quick to accept others' word at face value like a certain overly trusting princess of Renais won't get you far.

[Azure the Scale Tipper]

11 minutes ago, Steeles4500 said:

If for whatever reason you really wanna use the yato, still go wyvern and A+ peri or something to get cav. Wyvern stuff is just too good to pass up.

Yeah, get everything up until Trample(?) and then reclass to Pally. Right?

Edited January 27, 2019 by Azure the Scale Tipper