what if three houses is a dragon break?

[thecrimsonflash]

So I have been thinking about a possible case for what three houses could be in the context of the greater fire emblem lore, it looks like it could possibly be a dragon break.

for those who are unaware, a dragon break is a term in elder scrolls lore used to describe an event which causes a point in linear time to become non-linear, basically when an event hinges on a single choice, every possibility happens all at once rather than having one canon outcome. I know that I am technically using the term incorrectly, but it is the closest thing that comes to mind.

in the trailer we see several things that evoke imagery from previous fire emblem entries, we have what appear to be divine dragons in front of a goddess, it also takes place on a landmass which looks like tellius, which looks like a landmass in jugdral, edelgard also takes a few design cues from micaiah this could point to tellius being introduced into archenaen lore and if this is the case perhaps elibe and fateslandia could also be included in some form.

I guess the main point of this post is less of speculation (mainly because any evidence at this point is inconclusive at best) and more of how everyone feels about this possibility.

[Arcphoenix]

37 minutes ago, thecrimsonflash said:

for those who are unaware, a dragon break is a term in elder scrolls lore used to describe an event which causes a point in linear time to become non-linear, basically when an event hinges on a single choice, every possibility happens all at once rather than having one canon outcome. I know that I am technically using the term incorrectly, but it is the closest thing that comes to mind.

So... Like Fates (according to DLC) or the Zelda timeline. Yeah?

[indigoasis]

When I saw Dragon Break in the title, I thought that this would be about the final boss not being a dragon and that we would finally get a break from dragons for once.

I have absolutely no idea what a Dragon Break is, but after looking it up, I think I semi-understand what it is. One of the definitions I saw said it challenges mortal comprehension (and it definitely does). Anyway, it kind of reminds of the Zelda timeline split in a way, even though that's probably not a Dragon Break. But then the wiki said that the timeline reconnects at the end of a Dragon Break, so would that mean BotW is confirmed to reconnect the timelines...? I'm getting off topic, I'm sorry.

I would think that it would be natural that a new FE game would take some visual cues from previous entries, although the points you brought up are interesting. Fódlan does resemble Tellius quite a bit (a point that's been made quite a bit, and is quite noticeable), to the point where it could possibly be a Tellius of the distant future. I haven't really noticed it until you pointed out that Edelgard looks similar to Micaiah (maybe a descendant?). Anyway, it's all pretty neat.

Quickly going back to the point of it being a distant future Tellius thing, there was a spinning robot thing in the trailer. You know what else has robots? The future. It's all coming together....

Yo, watch Fódlan be on the other side of the Fateslandia continent.

[thecrimsonflash]

2 minutes ago, Arcphoenix said:

So... Like Fates (according to DLC) or the Zelda timeline. Yeah?

more like if the zelda timeline converges on BOTW at the very end, where contradictory events are canon at the same time, mainly the zora and rito existing at the same time in spite of the fact that the rito are an evolution of the zora after the great flood.

[NinjaMonkey]

1 hour ago, thecrimsonflash said:

more like if the zelda timeline converges on BOTW at the very end, where contradictory events are canon at the same time, mainly the zora and rito existing at the same time in spite of the fact that the rito are an evolution of the zora after the great flood.

Aonuma has said that BotW isn't officially part of the Zelda timeline.

1 hour ago, thecrimsonflash said:

in the trailer we see several things that evoke imagery from previous fire emblem entries, we have what appear to be divine dragons in front of a goddess, it also takes place on a landmass which looks like tellius, which looks like a landmass in jugdral, edelgard also takes a few design cues from micaiah this could point to tellius being introduced into archenaen lore and if this is the case perhaps elibe and fateslandia could also be included in some form.

1. There is no over-arcing FE timeline.
2. Elibe, Tellius, Magvel etc exist in their own Outrealm, as stated in Awakening.

[Ertrick36]

Oh, you mean the thing that explained why every possible ending in Daggerfall canonically happens?  The Warp in the West, or whatever it was called?

That's what happens when you make a sequel to an extremely open-ended game, but you don't want to piss off your fans who did things a certain way, and then you make the plot device that resulted from your narrative tip-toeing into a critical part of your story's lore.

Considering how Fates already hinged on a lot of bad plot devices to make things happen in certain ways, I wouldn't say it's out of the question.

@indigoceans @Arcphoenix Basically, take a game with multiple endings/paths such as Fire Emblem Fates or Mass Effect and make all of those endings canon at the same time.  So in Fates, you'll have a world where all the kingdoms were horribly damaged in a great war yet everyone makes peace with each other - Corrin would've fought against and alongside both of them at the same time.

Yes, it's extremely paradoxical.  Lore-wise, that's because it's what happens when mortals tamper with divine elements.  Though in reality it's either writer laziness or the result of a few too many tokes on the pipe during work.

[Interdimensional Observer]

I'd rather not have IS make the folly of Zelda and attempt to put every game onto some timeline in any way.

I'd also rather not 3H have us go around trying to stop a timespace meltdown. I like Chrono Trigger, and Radiant Historia, but for FE, even though we already have a multiverse now and limited timespace travel in Awakening, I don't want serious timespace shenanigans the players do to be a significant part of the plot. It is too much for FE. We don't need the franchise to pull itself out of time's flow and view its nonlinearity from a pitch black interdimensional space, we need it to be more grounded if anything.

And when a time breakdown happens, well I'm not sure how one could keep squads of troops and not just individuals alive and able to fight back.

[Ertrick36]

11 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I'd also rather not 3H have us go around trying to stop a timespace meltdown. I like Chrono Trigger, and Radiant Historia, but for FE, even though we already have a multiverse now and limited timespace travel in Awakening, I don't want serious timespace shenanigans the players do to be a significant part of the plot. It is too much for FE. We don't need the franchise to pull itself out of time's flow and view its nonlinearity from a pitch black interdimensional space, we need it to be more grounded if anything.

And when a time breakdown happens, well I'm not sure how one could keep squads of troops and not just individuals alive and able to fight back.

I do agree.

Even if a dragon break isn't necessarily the same as multiverse or timeline divergences, I'd rather not have FE be built upon ridiculous meta plots revolving around how plot devices ruined existence or whatever.

I want FE to just keep things simple.  I don't want Three Houses to be in multiple paths, I don't want it to do any ridiculous time traveling, and I would rather it didn't incorporate TES's plot device that describes how everything that every player did is canon.  Just give me something like any of the stories before Fates and I'll be satisfied.  I'm already dissatisfied as-is by the existence of the "outrealms" plot device, we don't need to ruin FE even further by making the plot of the next game revolve around a poorly conceived plot device that has no business even being in FE in the first place.

[Dandy Druid]

Wait so a Dragon Break is when there's different paths taken but lead to the same outcome right?

So like FE7's Eliwood/Hector modes and FE6's different routes?

[Ertrick36]

1 hour ago, Dandy Druid said:

Wait so a Dragon Break is when there's different paths taken but lead to the same outcome right?

It's a lot more complicated than that.

The most notable Dragon Break I can think of is the Warp in the West, an event which happened at the end of Daggerfall (the second Elder Scrolls game).  Your player character obtains this divine relic known as the Totem of Tiber Septim.  A bunch of different factions (namely three kingdoms that are hostile with each other and the Tamrielic Empire which wants to pacify all of them) want to use it for various purposes, but the general idea is it gives whoever wields it a god-like weapon/vessel known as Numidium.

However, it somehow wound up being used by every faction that wanted it at the same time.  This was due to a divine intervention from the god of time (Akotosh), as the player character's intervention screwed with the proper continuity of reality, likely because no single person should be allowed to wield a godly weapon but a bunch of factions wielding it at the same time means they won't be able to destroy each other.  This is supported by the fact that after the cataclysmic event, the region affected saw years of peace.

So basically it's what happens when the god of time decides the mortals are playing with fire, so he sets things up so that they can progress without chaos ensuing.  It's not all that much like different paths leading to the same outcome, but more a god forcing all paths in a road of divergence to happen at the same time so that an entirely different outcome can happen that won't result in complete chaos.  Which of course, in itself, is quite an oxymoron, since the timeline is quite havoc'd by the divine intervention in the first place.

It's some really confusing stuff.  Often described as "challenging mortal minds".  Though I still think it's mostly because the Elder Scrolls writing staff didn't want to have to settle with making one ending or another canon in Daggerfall so they decided to just make them all canon via a convenient and convoluted plot device.  As far as I know, the Warp in the West is the only one that's described in detail, and it's the only game in the series which has multiple endings that are very different from one another, since every other game has a relatively linear main plot.

[thecrimsonflash]

15 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I'd rather not have IS make the folly of Zelda and attempt to put every game onto some timeline in any way.

in nintendo's defense it wasn't until you had hundreds of videos trying to create a timeline for a series that was never made with the idea of a timeline being a thing in the first place.

though everyone seems to give so little a crap about a fire emblem timeline (mainly because there is little to no connection between games) that I wouldn't worry about timeline shenanigans ever really happening in any serious way.

[Dandy Druid]

16 hours ago, Ertrick36 said:

It's a lot more complicated than that.

The most notable Dragon Break I can think of is the Warp in the West, an event which happened at the end of Daggerfall (the second Elder Scrolls game).  Your player character obtains this divine relic known as the Totem of Tiber Septim.  A bunch of different factions (namely three kingdoms that are hostile with each other and the Tamrielic Empire which wants to pacify all of them) want to use it for various purposes, but the general idea is it gives whoever wields it a god-like weapon/vessel known as Numidium.

However, it somehow wound up being used by every faction that wanted it at the same time.  This was due to a divine intervention from the god of time (Akotosh), as the player character's intervention screwed with the proper continuity of reality, likely because no single person should be allowed to wield a godly weapon but a bunch of factions wielding it at the same time means they won't be able to destroy each other.  This is supported by the fact that after the cataclysmic event, the region affected saw years of peace.

So basically it's what happens when the god of time decides the mortals are playing with fire, so he sets things up so that they can progress without chaos ensuing.  It's not all that much like different paths leading to the same outcome, but more a god forcing all paths in a road of divergence to happen at the same time so that an entirely different outcome can happen that won't result in complete chaos.  Which of course, in itself, is quite an oxymoron, since the timeline is quite havoc'd by the divine intervention in the first place.

It's some really confusing stuff.  Often described as "challenging mortal minds".  Though I still think it's mostly because the Elder Scrolls writing staff didn't want to have to settle with making one ending or another canon in Daggerfall so they decided to just make them all canon via a convenient and convoluted plot device.  As far as I know, the Warp in the West is the only one that's described in detail, and it's the only game in the series which has multiple endings that are very different from one another, since every other game has a relatively linear main plot.

Ok. That makes sense... I guess. Still kind of weird though.

It sounds convoluted.

Thanks for explaining though. I have a better idea of what it is now. It sounds closer to Awakening with the whole Robin scenario, but Awakening isn't quite that either.

[YingofDarkness]

I'm going to echo the others saying that I'd rather that not be the case. I just want a simple story from IS this time. No Outrealm and timetraveling shenanigans. Multiple paths and endings are fine, but don't make the true ending a)DLC, and B) be in some magical invisible kingdom nobody has heard of. Just let the world of 3H's be its own thing. It is only natural that they draw inspiration from other games, but don't start connecting them unless it is actually necessary to the story or as an easter egg to the fanbase.

[Ertrick36]

6 minutes ago, Dandy Druid said:

It sounds convoluted.

Yeah, it is, I myself have a hard time wrapping my head around this crap.  It's like trying to figure out the story of the Metal Gear franchise all over again.  Like they say, challenges mortal comprehension.

I guess it is actually a lot like the timeline stuff in Awakening.  I'd say that could sort of classify since a divine being manipulated time to stave chaos, and it resulted in weird stuff like there being two Robins.  Sometimes dragon breaks aren't all that convoluted, it's just they typically turn out that way because of how royally the mortals screwed up.

I will say though that I like the idea of the gods actually caring enough about mortals that they would intervene in these dire situations.  I don't know, maybe I just have a cynical way of looking at it, but it always seems like gods in stories are just apathetic and lack any motivation to even keep the mortals alive except for amusement or what-have-you.  That's why in spite of the fact that it kind of takes away all of his established character development, I liked the idea of

Spoiler

the dragon Holsety using Levin's body as a vessel to guide the new generation of holy crusaders.

 

[Dandy Druid]

6 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

Yeah, it is, I myself have a hard time wrapping my head around this crap.  It's like trying to figure out the story of the Metal Gear franchise all over again.  Like they say, challenges mortal comprehension.

I guess it is actually a lot like the timeline stuff in Awakening.  I'd say that could sort of classify since a divine being manipulated time to stave chaos, and it resulted in weird stuff like there being two Robins.  Sometimes dragon breaks aren't all that convoluted, it's just they typically turn out that way because of how royally the mortals screwed up.

I will say though that I like the idea of the gods actually caring enough about mortals that they would intervene in these dire situations.  I don't know, maybe I just have a cynical way of looking at it, but it always seems like gods in stories are just apathetic and lack any motivation to even keep the mortals alive except for amusement or what-have-you.  That's why in spite of the fact that it kind of takes away all of his established character development, I liked the idea of

  Hide contents

the dragon Holsety using Levin's body as a vessel to guide the new generation of holy crusaders.

 

I agree with you there. I also found it weird that some videogames make a religion with a God and everything, but then not have them intervene in some way. Holsety was a cool way to do this idea, while leaving much of his character and Lewyn's up to interpretation of when who was in control and who wasn't.