Oguma

[Oguma]

Talk and discuss Oguma.

[Rodykitty]

Got nerfed and now has to live with the new stat scale, so is no longer as good as he used to be. Barts and the Cavaliers have pretty much dethroned him.

He's amazing early on in H5, but then begins lagging later. I've been trying to find a solution to his problems through class swap.

[Ϲharlie]

Got nerfed and now has to live with the new stat scale, so is no longer as good as he used to be.

Aww, that's a shame. I always enjoyed using Oguma. Is he at least a decent character?

On a slightly unrelated note, I noticed that Oguma's growth (as a merc) was more or less the same as Dieck's. Coincidence?

[Rodykitty]

Aww, that's a shame. I always enjoyed using Oguma. Is he at least a decent character?

Yes, just that the game is harder on him now.

On a slightly unrelated note, I noticed that Oguma's growth (as a merc) was more or less the same as Dieck's. Coincidence?

FEDS Oguma is basically FE1 Oguma, but with increased skill and slightly increased hp growths. Dieck was probably a modification of him, then they took that for FEDS Oguma. FEDS already borrows FE6's stat caps, so it should come to no surprise. Edited November 16, 2008 by FE3 Player

[Superbus]

Let's not forget that the reason Oguma was so good in FE1/3 was because the stats capped at 20; therefore, his balance was a boost to him, as he played the game's limited cards the best.

Now that the rules have been changed? Caesar outclasses him.

[roylover]

D: On my run-through, Oguma is doing worse than Navaare...which is very strange. I thought he'd do better. My Raddy is doing better than Oguma...which is, as I've said, very strange.

But, yes, now that stats no longer cap at 20 (and which is why I don't understand they didn't redo the stat-growths completely in FEDS) and, therefore, Oguma isn't as amazing as he used to be.

[Rodykitty]

(and which is why I don't understand they didn't redo the stat-growths completely in FEDS)

Because they didn't need to. Increasing the stat caps actuallly balanced the growth rates, because many promoted units in FE3 could max most stats before even reaching 20/10 and become perfect characters.

They actually have to get to 20/20 to see full potential, and because of the raised stat caps, more characters are different from each other now.

[Admiral "Bull" Halsey]

I don't know if it's true but is there such thing as a Oguma-archetype like how there's a Jeigan?

Would Raven, Dieck, and Gerik be considered a Oguma-archetype if that's the case? ?_?

[Superbus]

Don't forget the growths between each class now. Growths change between being a Cavalier and a Mercenary.

[Rodykitty]

Yes, there is an Oguma archetype.

[Swordsalmon]

Now that the rules have been changed? Caesar outclasses him.

Oguma has several chapters of being awesome on Caesar and severely outclasses him upon joining.

Though Oguma isn't as great now he's still one of the best characters. He's pretty durable and DAs fairly quickly. One of the best ten characters easily.

Edited November 16, 2008 by Swordsalmon

[Superbus]

Oguma has several chapters of being awesome on Caesar and severely outclasses him upon joining.

Though Oguma isn't as great now he's still one of the best characters. He's pretty durable and DAs fairly quickly. One of the best ten characters easily.

Once Caesar gets to promotable status, it's over. The defensive advantages are too much. Anytime you give me a mercenary with General-life defence, it should be used.

EDIT: Also keep in mind that Caesar's not really chopped liver to start with; he can be used early, unlike, say, Raddy, who has to be babied a bit.

Edited November 16, 2008 by Superbus

[Swordsalmon]

Once Caesar gets to promotable status, it's over. The defensive advantages are too much. Anytime you give me a mercenary with General-life defence, it should be used.

EDIT: Also keep in mind that Caesar's not really chopped liver to start with; he can be used early, unlike, say, Raddy, who has to be babied a bit.

By Ceasar's promotion. All decimals rounded to the nearest number.

Oguma, level 20/5 Mercenary<Hero

HP: 46

Str: 16

Skl: 21

Spd: 20

Lck: 11

Def: 12

Res: 3

Ceasar, level 20/1 Mercenary<Hero

HP: 41

Str: 14

Skl: 16

Spd: 21

Lck: 9

Def: 12

Res: 3

Looks like Oguma still has better durability. Also, Oguma is giving supports to Barts while getting supports Navarre and Sheeda, all three which will be A support by then. Ceasar only support Raddy.

In Ceasar's joining, he joins the entire map away. Oguma has a massive level lead on him.

[Rodykitty]

Level 20/5 vs level 20/1 stats

Let's be fair...

Oguma (Mercenary) @ lv. 4

HP: 22.0/60±0.0 (90%)

Str: 6.0/20±0.0 (40%)

Mag: 0.0/20±0.0 (0%)

Skl: 11.0/20±0.0 (40%)

Spd: 12.0/20±0.0 (30%)

Lck: 3.0/20±0.0 (40%)

Def: 6.0/20±0.0 (20%)

Res: 0.0/20±0.0 (0%)

Caesar (Mercenary) @ lv. 4

HP: 20.9/60±0.5 (90%)

Str: 5.4/20±0.5 (40%)

Mag: 0.0/20±0.0 (0%)

Skl: 8.4/20±0.5 (35%)

Spd: 12.5/20±0.5 (45%)

Lck: 6.2/20±0.5 (20%)

Def: 7.2/20±0.5 (15%)

Res: 0.0/20±0.0 (0%)

Oguma (Mercenary) @ lv. 10

HP: 27.4/60±1.1 (90%)

Str: 8.4/20±1.7 (40%)

Mag: 0.0/20±0.0 (0%)

Skl: 13.4/20±1.7 (40%)

Spd: 13.8/20±1.7 (30%)

Lck: 5.4/20±1.7 (40%)

Def: 7.2/20±1.4 (20%)

Res: 0.0/20±0.0 (0%)

Caesar (Mercenary) @ lv. 10

HP: 26.3/60±1.1 (90%)

Str: 7.8/20±2.0 (40%)

Mag: 0.0/20±0.0 (0%)

Skl: 10.5/20±2.0 (35%)

Spd: 15.2/20±2.0 (45%)

Lck: 7.4/20±1.4 (20%)

Def: 8.1/20±1.4 (15%)

Res: 0.0/20±0.0 (0%)

Oguma (Hero) @ lv. 20/1

HP: 42.4/60±1.7 (90%)

Str: 14.4/25±2.9 (40%)

Mag: 1.0/20±0.0 (0%)

Skl: 19.3/30±2.3 (40%)

Spd: 18.8/26±2.3 (30%)

Lck: 9.4/30±2.9 (40%)

Def: 11.2/25±2.6 (20%)

Res: 3.0/22±0.0 (0%)

Caesar (Hero) @ lv. 20/1

HP: 41.3/60±1.7 (90%)

Str: 13.8/25±3.2 (40%)

Mag: 1.0/20±0.0 (0%)

Skl: 15.9/30±3.2 (35%)

Spd: 21.0/26±1.7 (45%)

Lck: 9.4/30±2.6 (20%)

Def: 11.5/25±2.3 (15%)

Res: 3.0/22±0.0 (0%)

Oguma (Hero) @ lv. 20/10

HP: 50.5/60±2.3 (90%)

Str: 18.0/25±3.7 (40%)

Mag: 1.0/20±0.0 (0%)

Skl: 22.9/30±3.5 (40%)

Spd: 21.5/26±3.2 (30%)

Lck: 13.0/30±3.7 (40%)

Def: 13.0/25±2.9 (20%)

Res: 3.0/22±0.0 (0%)

Caesar (Hero) @ lv. 20/10

HP: 49.4/60±2.3 (90%)

Str: 17.4/25±4.0 (40%)

Mag: 1.0/20±0.0 (0%)

Skl: 19.1/30±3.7 (35%)

Spd: 24.7/26±2.0 (45%)

Lck: 11.2/30±3.2 (20%)

Def: 12.9/25±2.9 (15%)

Res: 3.0/22±0.0 (0%)

Oguma (Hero) @ lv. 20/20

HP: 59.0/60±1.7 (90%)

Str: 21.8/25±3.2 (40%)

Mag: 1.0/20±0.0 (0%)

Skl: 26.7/30±3.2 (40%)

Spd: 24.0/26±2.6 (30%)

Lck: 17.0/30±4.3 (40%)

Def: 15.0/25±3.5 (20%)

Res: 3.0/22±0.0 (0%)

Caesar (Hero) @ lv. 20/20

HP: 58.3/60±2.3 (90%)

Str: 21.2/25±3.5 (40%)

Mag: 1.0/20±0.0 (0%)

Skl: 22.6/30±4.3 (35%)

Spd: 25.9/26±1.1 (45%)

Lck: 13.2/30±3.5 (20%)

Def: 14.4/25±3.2 (15%)

Res: 3.0/22±0.0 (0%)

[Swordsalmon]

They'll never be at the same level when used, though. :/ Oguma is probably like, level 12-15 by the time Caesar joins. :/

[Rodykitty]

We already know that Oguma > Caesar because of his level advantage, but if we're going to compare stats, may as well do so at even levels, not to see who is better, but to see how each one performs at certain points at times.

Plus, if you're serious about using Caesar, it's possible to even out his level.

[Jedor]

They'll never be at the same level when used, though. :/ Oguma is probably like, level 12-15 by the time Caesar joins. :/

That entirely depends on your play style, some people (like me) try to make everyone evenly leveled, as such Oguma's level lead wouldn't last long.

[Admiral "Bull" Halsey]

I kinda find Caesar to play the exact same role as Oujay do in his own game in terms of later recruited before you get your first Mercenary(Oguma/Dieck). If you don't include levels, don't you guys think so?

[Saaji]

I kinda find Caesar to play the exact same role as Oujay do in his own game in terms of later recruited before you get your first Mercenary(Oguma/Dieck). If you don't include levels, don't you guys think so?

Actually that is quite true... then again I think SoS stole alot from the original fire emblem there's too many character similarities for it not to be so. The starting party, Dieck and his axe fighters.

[Swordsalmon]

Plus, if you're serious about using Caesar, it's possible to even out his level.

If your serious about using Thomas, you can get him to promote at his joining chapter. Sounds like favortism.

That entirely depends on your play style, some people (like me) try to make everyone evenly leveled, as such Oguma's level lead wouldn't last long.

What's the point? Beating chapters in the most efficient way is essential for this game. Wasting time trying to evenly level characters up is pointless, because all the characters will be equally weak instead of having a strong character.

[Rodykitty]

Eh, I am assuming that people are going to use Caesar and not be playing for the sake of efficiency. The most efficient way of playing isn't required to beat FEDS (only to beat it for the sake of efficiency). Caesar can be trained, you just have to improvise a bit.

Besides, you would have to train Caesar to get him to level 20/1 anyway, and even devote a Master Proof to him. No real reason to compare him at different levels if you're going to train him anyway.

[Saaji]

Well when speaking about being efficient one can look at it in two ways, being efficient by beating the game the fastest way possible or being efficient by Maxing out your characters and thus curb stomping your way through the game. Generally most people chose the first of the two ways I mentioned because it falls under the mindset of the ranking system that some games have.

Personally I don't care for either and just pick and choose my favorite character whether they suck or not and use them and for the most part any character can be made decent... and considering the games usually throw a few stat up items your way anyway so you can take a 'subpar' character and bring em' to par....

using the best units is usually only needed on the hardest modes and not even so.

So I'm pretty sure I'm going to use Caesar even if he's technicall worse then Oguma, and well I'll probably use him to..

[Swordsalmon]

Besides, you would have to train Caesar to get him to level 20/1 anyway, and even devote a Master Proof to him. No real reason to compare him at different levels if you're going to train him anyway.

Then Oguma will have to wait several chapters at level 20 for a comparison. He's the most likely candidate for the second Master Proof, as Rena is almost guaranteed to get the first. So Oguma will be at a level advantage by the time Ceasar promotes.

[Rodykitty]

Again, if you are serious about training Caesar, you're probably not too concerned about having absolute maximum efficiency in the first place, and possibly have a slot for him on your team.

If you just use him to get kills without regard to what level he gains, I doubt he'll be getting 20/1 since the rest of your army needs EXP from kills too, and will do a better job than Caesar will at getting those kills. Not just Oguma, but Barts, Kain, Abel, etc. If we're going to compare a Caesar that's been purposely trained and promoted, may as well do so at equal levels.

Also, there are two Master Proofs on Chapter 12. Chapter 12 also has the second Master Proof you get after the one from Chapter 10, so if Oguma's getting the second Master Proof, Caesar can just use the third Master Proof that you'll get in the same chapter.

Edited November 19, 2008 by FE3 Player

[Superbus]

They'll never be at the same level when used, though. :/ Oguma is probably like, level 12-15 by the time Caesar joins. :/

When I got Caesar in my latest game, Oguma was at Lv. 7, about to promote to 8. By the end of that chapter - a chapter where I'm heavily arena whoring - Caesar went to Lv. 7, and Oguma is at 9.