Tips for no Online, no DLC, no New Game+ Maddening Classic run?

[Elephantus]

12 minutes ago, Silly said:

+Mag is hard to cook because the ingredient is like impossible to find on an average playthrough.

Not sure I agree with that. Zanado Treasure Fruit is indeed nearly impossible (I tried religiously on my last playthrough and got exactly one), but Angelica, which also gives Magic +1, was quite plentiful for me. As long as you get lucky and find the right seeds in the monastery early on, you should be good.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Elephantus

[Cysx]

3 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Especially since you can abuse something like Dorothea's Meteor to give 10 range Supports.

Yeah, but to be fair that doesn't help Lysithea much since they don't have a support together. For most people outside the black eagles, it's only +3.

Accuracy definitely gets easier to fix as time goes on. It takes a bit though, especially if you don't always move your characters together.

[Shadow Mir]

10 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

The argument was that Dark Magic's innately higher Might made the Black Tomefaire case less important. Her accuracy is mostly fine. It's not like it's hard to raise in this game anyway with Supports. Especially since you can abuse something like Dorothea's Meteor to give 10 range Supports.

I could just as easily say that Black Tomefaire makes dark magic's higher might less important. Also, Dorothea having meteor doesn't help Lysithea's accuracy much since she only gets +3.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[AxelVDP]

1 minute ago, Shadow Mir said:

I could just as easily say that Black Tomefaire makes dark magic's higher might less important.

Dude, I too think that Lys is overrated (I mostly completely agree on what Silly said tbh) but you are acting unsufferable on this topic, chill out my man

Both parties have made their case perfectly clear already, there's no need to be so anal about it

[TWrex]

19 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Her combat prowess. Like said by someone else here, she's worse off than Hubert starting out, yet everyone worships the ground Lysithea walks on like mindless fanboys, in addition to clamoring she's top tier, while Hubert gets no such treatment. I wonder why... Also, she's not that much better off than other mages.

A risk that I don't think is worth it when I have to deal with this multiple times just to get him off the map, especially since he's going to be initiating on you unless you have Stride. 

By the time I'm ready to open the door to his room, odds are everyone else except for the units in his room is dead (also, this chapter has the one March Ring that you can get). And at this point, she's been knocked off her perch. Hard. (If I really wanted to do it, Lance of Ruin + Knightkneeler is more effective if I recruited Sylvain or am leading the Blue Lions)

Warp is nice, but what else does she have going for her? 

Sure, dark magic is stronger, but at the cost of accuracy. That's a losing trade, far as I'm concerned (after all, having all the power in the world means jack shit if you whiff). And it doesn't help her case that Lysithea has very poor luck, which is part of the magic accuracy formula. Which is relevant with Hades Omega and Luna, where I wouldn't be surprised to see her having shaky accuracy on whatever she's trying to attack, even if it's not super evasive.

What about her combat prowess is being overrated?  She is capable of one-shotting enemy characters in the midgame, I've done it quite a few times.  No she cannot one shot everything in the game, I don't know of many characters that can in Maddening however.  Lysithea arguably has the best offensive spell list, the only one who would come close I would argue is Dorothea with Meteor but she has 20 less mag growth.  As for Hubert his base stats are extremely similar to Lysithea's if you actually look at them and his growths are pretty identical too so I don't see how he is any better in the early game?

 

Maybe we have a disconnect about what makes a top tier character in this game.  What things do you think make a high tier character in this game?  Out of those things what is it that Lysithea is missing to make her not a toptier?

[Silly]

If we were to rank units solely based on combat potential, I am personally of the opinion that the list would look something like the following (units only roughly ordered within each tier)

Tier 1: Claude, Edelgard, Dimitri, Byleth
Tier 1.5: Petra, Hilda, Ferdinand, Sylvain, Felix, Leonie, Ingrid, Catherine, Seteth

You could maybe argue a unit here and there but I feel this is pretty reasonable. Lysithea's combat, given equal favoritism, is probably worse than the units on the list above. On player phase, she does high damage and can occasionally snag ORKOs, but the units on the above list also do high damage and will likely have even higher odds of grabbing ORKOs due to their significantly higher AS putting them much closer to doubling thresholds. On enemy phase, the above units can often engage one or two enemies (at minimum) relatively safely, whereas Lysithea has a complete inability to engage in any enemy phase combat.

Now the above list is a good start, but we are missing the big fact that magic units make up for their worse combat with higher utility, so when you only rank units by combat you're underrating mages. Lysithea can heal, but it's only a small bonus because she doesn't have Physic and is going to be locked to 4 move for the majority of the game. But she does have Warp, which depending on how you're playing the game can be very important and is definitely enough to make up for her worse combat.

In the context of an LTC run, then Warp puts Lysithea into tier 1, because it's an incredibly powerful tool for saving turns in LTC. In the context of a moderately efficient run, I would say that Warp bumps Lysithea's total usefulness up to maybe somewhere around the bottom half of tier 1.5, which is already pretty good in my opinion. There are plenty of units that are below that. I wouldn't feel comfortable rating her higher than the units in the upper portion of tier 1.5 though, let alone the units in tier 1.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Silly

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

1 hour ago, Shadow Mir said:

I could just as easily say that Black Tomefaire makes dark magic's higher might less important. Also, Dorothea having meteor doesn't help Lysithea's accuracy much since she only gets +3.

Yes, that was the whole point. The thing about other mages getting a Faire is moot. Which would make Lysithea's better growths over fellow mages a positive thing for Lysithea, instead of being cancelled out by not having a Faire like you claimed.

It was just an example, and you can stack more than one Support. Point is there are ways to supplement accuracy on the fly.

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, TWrex said:

What about her combat prowess is being overrated?  She is capable of one-shotting enemy characters in the midgame, I've done it quite a few times.  No she cannot one shot everything in the game, I don't know of many characters that can in Maddening however.  Lysithea arguably has the best offensive spell list, the only one who would come close I would argue is Dorothea with Meteor but she has 20 less mag growth.  As for Hubert his base stats are extremely similar to Lysithea's if you actually look at them and his growths are pretty identical too so I don't see how he is any better in the early game?

 

Maybe we have a disconnect about what makes a top tier character in this game.  What things do you think make a high tier character in this game?  Out of those things what is it that Lysithea is missing to make her not a toptier?

Bold: Here you go:

2 hours ago, Silly said:

In the first few maps Lysithea does less damage and has less bulk than Hubert, and people certainly aren't clamoring about how top tier he is, are they? Hubert also has debuffs which can help out in the first few maps.

With this in mind, why the hell is she worshipped and hyped up as a top tier unit while he isn't???

Everything else: On what difficulty? And is that with crest activations? Also, I'm unimpressed by her spell list, considering that Luna and Hades have shaky accuracy (65 base hit ftl), and Dark Spikes is a very niche option.

[Xylaugheon Daily]

So, this is what I did. Tutor Lysithea ever possible session. A forced seminar with Hanneman plus another seminar with Hanneman when Lysithea C Rank was triggered during the week. Let it be known that I had another week where seminar was the best option (last week of the third month, because you are forced to explore the next week) but I did not take it. Each seminar was worth 30 points. Literally no combat. Goals set to just Reason. The results from tutoring.

 

Perfect 3

Great 14

Good 8

Bad 1

 

She hit B Rank Reason with a full two weeks left before Chapter 4. While it does require you to aim for it, it is easily achievable, even if you're not using her in combat, but who wouldn't be?

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Xylaugheon Daily

[Xylaugheon Daily]

44 minutes ago, Silly said:

If we were to rank units solely based on combat potential, I am personally of the opinion that the list would look something like the following (units only roughly ordered within each tier)

Tier 1: Claude, Edelgard, Dimitri, Byleth
Tier 1.5: Petra, Hilda, Ferdinand, Sylvain, Felix, Leonie, Ingrid, Catherine, Seteth

You could maybe argue a unit here and there but I feel this is pretty reasonable. Lysithea's combat, given equal favoritism, is probably worse than the units on the list above. On player phase, she does high damage and can occasionally snag ORKOs, but the units on the above list also do high damage and will likely have even higher odds of grabbing ORKOs due to their significantly higher AS putting them much closer to doubling thresholds. On enemy phase, the above units can often engage one or two enemies (at minimum) relatively safely, whereas Lysithea has a complete inability to engage in any enemy phase combat.

Now the above list is a good start, but we are missing the big fact that magic units make up for their worse combat with higher utility, so when you only rank units by combat you're underrating mages. Lysithea can heal, but it's only a small bonus because she doesn't have Physic and is going to be locked to 4 move for the majority of the game. But she does have Warp, which depending on how you're playing the game can be very important and is definitely enough to make up for her worse combat.

In the context of an LTC run, then Warp puts Lysithea into tier 1, because it's an incredibly powerful tool for saving turns in LTC. In the context of a moderately efficient run, I would say that Warp bumps Lysithea's total usefulness up to maybe somewhere around the bottom half of tier 1.5, which is already pretty good in my opinion. There are plenty of units that are below that. I wouldn't feel comfortable rating her higher than the units in the upper portion of tier 1.5 though, let alone the units in tier 1.

I generally agree with this assessment. Though, in the beginning these characters are lower imo, as having range gives us the ability to finish an opponent off without taking a counter, even if she doesn't snag the kill. I'd probably bump Ingrid and Sylvain to the next tier below, as they both seem to have a more difficult time reaching their potential. I'd even lower Petra were it not for her great affinities and ability to dodge tank early on.

[Silly]

16 minutes ago, Xylaugheon Daily said:

So, this is what I did. Tutor Lysithea ever possible session. A forced seminar with Hanneman plus another seminar with Hanneman when Lysithea C Rank was triggered during the week. Let it be known that I had another week where seminar was the best option (last week of the third month, because you are forced to explore the next week) but I did not take it. Each seminar was worth 30 points. Literally no combat. Goals set to just Reason. The results from tutoring.

 

Perfect 3

Great14

Good 8

Bad 1

 

She hit B Rank Reason with a full two weeks left before Chapter 4. While it does require you to aim for it, it is easily achievable, even if you're not using her in combat, but who wouldn't be?

 

I'm just going to point out that doing seminars is awful use of time. I don't think it's very realistic to assume any seminars beyond the first forced one (I actually think Seteth is better here but if you have to do it with Hanneman that's okay).

Also, you probably want to set your goals to Reason + Faith or just Faith if you want to realistically hit Warp for chapter 5 (aka the map that takes approximately a hundred million turns if you don't have warp). If Ch 4 Dark Spikes comes at the cost of Ch 5 Warp then having to pick between the two could be a notable downside.

Lastly, I assume you're doing this on Maddening? Weapon exp differs based on difficulty. Normal mode has roughly an extra 16-24 weapon exp per month.

8 minutes ago, Xylaugheon Daily said:

I generally agree with this assessment. Though, in the beginning these characters are lower imo, as having range gives us the ability to finish an opponent off without taking a counter, even if she doesn't snag the kill. I'd probably bump Ingrid and Sylvain to the next tier below, as they both seem to have a more difficult time reaching their potential. I'd even lower Petra were it not for her great affinities and ability to dodge tank early on.

Anybody can use a bow to chip, and though it doesn't do as much damage as a magic attack it means that every character has an option to weaken enemies with and avoid a counter. Also characters that begin with D lance actually have the highest damage output in the early game due to how absurdly strong Tempest Lance is when nobody doubles.

Ingrid sort of suffers if you do the BL route because her bases are okay but not the best and you can't benefit from cross recruit stat bonuses as BL. Sylvain is sort of solid though in the early game.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Silly

[Xylaugheon Daily]

26 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Bold: Here you go:

With this in mind, why the hell is she worshipped and hyped up as a top tier unit while he isn't???

Everything else: On what difficulty? And is that with crest activations? Also, I'm unimpressed by her spell list, considering that Luna and Hades have shaky accuracy (65 base hit ftl), and Dark Spikes is a very niche option.

Id say Hubert is pretty good, but being locked to one of four routes is pretty damning, wouldn't you agree? Her personal skill and crest are also a lot more helpful.

 

You can be unimpressed with her spell list, sure, but that doesn't change how great it is. Great Dark Magic and diverse White Magic, all obtained relatively fast, especially in comparison to other mages. Also, Dark Spikes is great to use on all kinds of enemies, not just mounted. That said, there are more than enough mounted enemies for her to completely slaughter allowing other units to do other things.

[Xylaugheon Daily]

21 minutes ago, Silly said:

I'm just going to point out that doing seminars is awful use of time. I don't think it's very realistic to assume any seminars beyond the first forced one (I actually think Seteth is better here but if you have to do it with Hanneman that's okay).

Also, you probably want to set your goals to Reason + Faith or just Faith if you want to realistically hit Warp for chapter 5 (aka the map that takes approximately a hundred million turns if you don't have warp). If Ch 4 Dark Spikes comes at the cost of Ch 5 Warp then having to pick between the two could be a notable downside.

Lastly, I assume you're doing this on Maddening? Weapon exp differs based on difficulty. Normal mode has roughly an extra 16-24 weapon exp per month.

Anybody can use a bow to chip, and though it doesn't do as much damage as a magic attack it means that every character has an option to weaken enemies with and avoid a counter. Also characters that begin with D lance actually have the highest damage output in the early game due to how absurdly strong Tempest Lance is when nobody doubles.

Ingrid sort of suffers if you do the BL route because her bases are okay but not the best and you can't benefit from cross recruit stat bonuses as BL. Sylvain is sort of solid though in the early game.

I am aware seminars aren't great, but when your options are feed the two students and plant one vegetable or raise up Bow and Reason for Byleth, Claude, Lorenz, Ignatz, Lysithea, and Leonie, especially on a tight deadline, yeah, I'd argue the seminar, in that case, is superior.

 

I actually don't like Warping Chapter 5 because that's wasted experience. I use Warp for better positioning and setup more than bypassing Chapters. And of course I tested this on Maddening. I don't think any of us here need to debate Hard, because everyone might as well be top tier on that difficulty.

 

Yes, bows allow anyone to chip, but spells are free and restore after combat and actively gain points towards future goals, where as using bows an everyone certainly doesn't, especially if they don't carry Close Counter, which is why I don't think saying the two are equal is the right call.

 

Tempest Lance is super MVP, no conversation needed. Saved my bacon countless times.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Xylaugheon Daily

[Shadow Mir]

16 minutes ago, Xylaugheon Daily said:

Id say Hubert is pretty good, but being locked to one of four routes is pretty damning, wouldn't you agree? Her personal skill and crest are also a lot more helpful.

 

You can be unimpressed with her spell list, sure, but that doesn't change how great it is. Great Dark Magic and diverse White Magic, all obtained relatively fast, especially in comparison to other mages. Also, Dark Spikes is great to use on all kinds of enemies, not just mounted. That said, there are more than enough mounted enemies for her to completely slaughter allowing other units to do other things.

Yeah, well, dark magic users tend to be overrated, and Lysithea has done nothing - NOTHING - to make me believe she is nothing but an overrated fraud.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[Xylaugheon Daily]

Just now, Shadow Mir said:

Yeah, well, dark magic users tend to be overrated, and Lysithea has done nothing - NOTHING - to make me believe she is naught but an overrated fraud.

Lol, ok, sweetheart.

[Shadow Mir]

Just now, Xylaugheon Daily said:

Lol, ok, sweetheart.

Nice comeback there. Allow me to respond with something equally convincing.

no u

[Xylaugheon Daily]

1 minute ago, Shadow Mir said:

Nice comeback there. Allow me to respond with something equally convincing.

no u

No, I'm just done with you. No one is on your side, here. You are literally the only person throwing this kind of shade at her. Even those who think she is overrated still acknowledge that she's good. And that's cool. I know how exciting you must find the prospect of being outspoken with hot takes. Generally that's a phase left behind in high school, but you do you.

 

You haven't disputed much of anything with this whole thread. A whole lot of "hur dur she's overrated," "dark mages suxor," and "combat is all that matters to me, make everyone wyverns and win the day." But that's it. With everyone else putting in the mileage with their cases, you just look like a child throwing a tantrum. So, yes, I will belittle you, and yes, I will patronize you.

[Shadow Mir]

35 minutes ago, Xylaugheon Daily said:

No, I'm just done with you. No one is on your side, here. You are literally the only person throwing this kind of shade at her. Even those who think she is overrated still acknowledge that she's good. And that's cool. I know how exciting you must find the prospect of being outspoken with hot takes. Generally that's a phase left behind in high school, but you do you.

 

You haven't disputed much of anything with this whole thread. A whole lot of "hur dur she's overrated," "dark mages suxor," and "combat is all that matters to me, make everyone wyverns and win the day." But that's it. With everyone else putting in the mileage with their cases, you just look like a child throwing a tantrum. So, yes, I will belittle you, and yes, I will patronize you.

Same to you. You have posted nothing of value here either, with your last paragraph being a new low because I don't think that way at all. And last I checked, you're acting like a kid, too, and people who live in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones.

Edit: Just so my position is clear, I am not saying Lysithea is not a good unit. I merely take issue with the claim that she's one of the best units in the game, as well as the claim that she's the best mage in the game.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[arem]

For the op, I just finished my no online, no death, New Game plus maddening run of blue lions, so here is my take away.

--The start is harder than normal, although I would not call the first levels the hardest part.  If it feels like too much at first, it does gets easier.

--Chapter 13 is sticking point with a lot of people.  I did not have a lot of problems with it, but I also gave Byleth and Dimitri most of my stat boosters, with a special emphasis on making them tanks.  I think that helped a lot.

--The final chapter is a huge pain.  I got almost everyone killed the first time I did it.  I reloaded and did it with no deaths, but it was painful.  I don't even feel triumphant right now.  Just aggravated.  Be prepared for mages that ambush spawn in groups with siege tomes equipped and be prepared to have a solution.

--Anything that automatically doubles is worth a lot more in maddening; Swift strikes, close range volley, etc.  I kept my bow fighters Shamir and Felix as snipers even after they qualified for bow knight just for the hunter's volley doubleshot technique.  They were some of my best killers too, despite the fact I did not give them any stat boosters.

As for the Lysithea argument this topic has somehow become,

My personal opinion is that she is really overated.  Yes, she can one things, but its not nearly as easy as her supporters will tell you.  A lot of things are out of her grasp or there are other characters more suited to the job.  Even if she were able to one shot everything, enemy phase is still a thing and she absolutely sucks there.

That all being said, if you want to have a black mage she is probably your best bet.  Dorothea is the closest thing I think she has to a real rival, and that is if you really want your attack mage to have backup physic.  Even then, her stats are lower and I think most people would rather have warp more than physic.  Even weirdos like who run two healers.  The only other real competitor I can think of is Lorenz or Sylvain, who apparently some people run as dark knight, if you want a tanky mage.  I am curious if that works at all on maddening.

As aside, did anybody else have trouble keeping  Lysithea alive in the blue lions endgame?  I skipped a bunch of levels (slept through the month, one rounded the boss with warp plus stride plus brave equipment), to just check out the end game enemies, and was surprised to find that she could not take the 50 attack hit the Husk was throwing across the map.  Even when I got there for real, she barely survived and the boss had a ten percent crit tate, so she spent most of the battle in the back of the room out of range. 

 

[TWrex]

2 hours ago, Shadow Mir said:

Bold: Here you go:

With this in mind, why the hell is she worshipped and hyped up as a top tier unit while he isn't???

Everything else: On what difficulty? And is that with crest activations? Also, I'm unimpressed by her spell list, considering that Luna and Hades have shaky accuracy (65 base hit ftl), and Dark Spikes is a very niche option.

People probably aren't clamoring about Hubert because he is only available in a BE run so unless you played that route you probably never used him and thus don't talk about him much at all.  I think most people rate Lysithea better because of Darkspikes, which is good for killing Death Knight if you choose to do so, Seraphim for Monsters, and Luna for high Res targets.  Luna may have a lowish hit rate but this can be circumvented with link boosts.   Personally I would also prefer having the option to use Luna over not having the option. Having access to Warp is also beneficial in a lot of peoples eyes as it allows you to skip certain maps just by yeeting a character to deal with the commander.  Hubert is also barely bulkier than Lysithea and given he will be doubled just like her he probably doesn't tank any unit that Lysithea also couldn't tank.  You mentioned her combat prowess so do you think she is incapable of dishing out the same amount of damage in a single round of combat as any of the other top tier units?  If so what top tier units are capable of dealing a similar or higher amount of damage as Lysithea in a single round of combat?  She certainly can't enemy phase so yes this is a weakness to her but as a Mage she is one of the few units who is capable of fighting a target in enemy phase without threat of dying since they won't be able to retaliate assuming you position her correctly and especially so if you use Thyrsus on her.

 

 

And I'm talking strictly from Maddening in terms of difficulty.  Also remember when people speak of a Tier List it isn't simply "which units are good and which are bad" but "how do these units stack up against one another in terms of usability in the game".  If other mages are being ranked below her it is due to her being essentially the best mage in a lot of peoples eyes and if people in general believe that mages are weaker overall in Maddening then she is most likely only placed highly to dictate that she is arguably the best mage and thus should be the only one people consider.

 

Also I apologize OP for getting so off topic I just find the discussion very engaging.  As for general tips my advice would be the following:

 

-Don't try to keep all of your main house units even in levels.  Pick a few units from your house that you think will be good and focus exp on those units with the rest in supporting roles and look to replace them with recruits from other houses.  Since other units will auto level it is easier to have them keep pace by just recruiting them with their already gained levels then trying to keep your entire house up.

-That said do not entirely neglect all of your house units.  If you have never cleared the game before or are playing a new route there will come a map where you MUST use all of your original house units and they will be scattered.  My advice is to look up this chapter (13) and see where your units will spawn.  Take note of where the units you decide to abandon will place and comprise a strategy accordingly to keep them alive.  I advise setting the units you abandon as Adjutants to allow them to get levels which can help in this map if you care to keep them alive during it.

-Gambits are extremely useful if not for damage for utility.  Landing a gambit attack prevents hit units from moving for 1 turn allowing you to stall if you need to.  Other useful gambits like stride and Impregnable Wall will allow you to survive certain scenarios you may otherwise not be able too.

-I recommend not bothering with Auxiliary battles and instead go with seminars early if you want or only Exploring.  Reduced Exp in Auxiliary battles make them less beneficial than just exploring and getting motivation up + potential statboosters from gardening.

-If you don't plan on using a dedicated bow unit I recommend carrying a few with your units anyways.  Being able to safely chip down enemies can be extremely helpful as units in Maddening will hurt.

-Don't be afraid to take it slow.  There are only a few maps where you are on a time limit the rest you are free to conquer at your leisure.  Don't feel like you are failing if you are not completing it quickly, take your time and go at your own pace to ensure victory.

-Money isn't much of an issue so don't be afraid to spend it.  Use up weapons durabilty through combat arts as they can easily be replaced/repaired.

-Plan out your units class pathways in advance.  Hitting your class ups on time can really help thanks to the modifiers they provide.  General recommendation is if a unit can easily become a Wyvern Lord, make them one.

-Kind of specific, but if you are planning on doing Manuela and Hanneman's paralogue I recommend training Manuela so she can change into a Pegasus Knight.  This allows you to easily place her out of range of enemies on her map keeping her safe while you work your way over to her.

-Let Gilbert die early in Chapter 5(?).  Gilbert isn't the smartest and may get in range of the archers in the middle of the tower thus aggroing them.  This makes things dangerous as they will rush you down instead of sitting put preventing you from planning your approach.  Also look up how the ambush spawn in this chapter works as it can easily catch you off guard if not prepared for it.

-Don't be afraid to end a map early if you are struggling to take out all of the enemies.  As long as you aren't skipping every map you should be able to keep your units even in terms of levels.

 

And this post is getting obscenely long so I'm going to stop there.  Sorry for the wall guys, this game is just really fun and I like talking about it.

Edited October 2, 2019 by TWrex

[PPPPPPP270]

I recommend Female Byleth if you aren't going Blue Lions so you can auto recruit Sylvain

You don't have to use him but getting the lance of ruin makes killing the death knight much easier especially if you do Silver Snow/Crimson Flower for chapters 6 and beyond. Shamir with Jeralt's mercenaries can one round the death knight as base on chapter 6. 

[Cysx]

8 hours ago, Xylaugheon Daily said:

So, this is what I did. Tutor Lysithea ever possible session. A forced seminar with Hanneman plus another seminar with Hanneman when Lysithea C Rank was triggered during the week. Let it be known that I had another week where seminar was the best option (last week of the third month, because you are forced to explore the next week) but I did not take it. Each seminar was worth 30 points. Literally no combat. Goals set to just Reason. The results from tutoring.

 

Perfect 3

Great 14

Good 8

Bad 1

 

She hit B Rank Reason with a full two weeks left before Chapter 4. While it does require you to aim for it, it is easily achievable, even if you're not using her in combat, but who wouldn't be? 

 

Okay but that's kind of my original point; is it worth doing all of that to make killing one completely optional boss easier? And considering the investment, is that really something worth praising Lysithea for?  Furthermore...

8 hours ago, Xylaugheon Daily said:

I am aware seminars aren't great, but when your options are feed the two students and plant one vegetable or raise up Bow and Reason for Byleth, Claude, Lorenz, Ignatz, Lysithea, and Leonie, especially on a tight deadline, yeah, I'd argue the seminar, in that case, is superior.

Thats a decent point, but I find it highly arguable. Skipping on exploration like that kills your prof exp gains(thus your level, thus your activity points, and at that part of the game it snowballs backwards, hard), your ability to tutor more students, to cross-recruit, etc. Even just three activity points are >1000 p.exp at this point since gathering at the greenhouse can give 500. It also stops you from cooking to boost everyone's stats, which is self explanatory but no less pivotal. Additionally there are many things worth rushing for when it comes to professor levels; adjutants for +damage/accuracy on key units, additional monthly gold of course, an acceptable number of tutoring points(6 is probably when it gets comfortable, and that's at B), +1 motivation from meals at A... and you need to reach B/B+ before you can really start working on Byleth's ranks without sacrificing something else.

A seminar with Hanneman and his D+(?) Bow rank on the other hand , will give your units 30/38 bow exp with a strength. That's really not a lot especially if you're giving up on tutoring them as a result, and very few need the Reason in the GD.

8 hours ago, Silly said:

hit Warp for chapter 5 (aka the map that takes approximately a hundred million turns if you don't have warp)

Sounds pretty complicated to low turn either way, considering the enemy density nearby the boss. I don't doubt people will do it, but you'd need specific builds for several characters I'd wager; not just Lysithea.

Edited October 2, 2019 by Cysx

[DefyingFates]

Is it worth doing Auxillary battles at all in Maddening, or should I only do Paralogues and Monster battles while spending all my other free days Exploring?

[Xylaugheon Daily]

2 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Is it worth doing Auxillary battles at all in Maddening, or should I only do Paralogues and Monster battles while spending all my other free days Exploring?

I Explored every week but the final week of a month, where I'd do paralogues and whatnot. With a dodge tank you can equip an adjutant and master skills and classes for them easily, and characters struggling to keep up with experience can gain some levels. I personally used that strategy two or three times myself when trying to catch Ferdinand up to everyone else for the last few maps. Otherwise, I'd probably say not.

[Xylaugheon Daily]

6 hours ago, Cysx said:

Okay but that's kind of my original point; is it worth doing all of that to make killing one completely optional boss easier? And considering the investment, is that really something worth praising Lysithea for?  Furthermore...

Thats a decent point, but I find it highly arguable. Skipping on exploration like that kills your prof exp gains(thus your level, thus your activity points, and at that part of the game it snowballs backwards, hard), your ability to tutor more students, to cross-recruit, etc. Even just three activity points are >1000 p.exp at this point since gathering at the greenhouse can give 500. It also stops you from cooking to boost everyone's stats, which is self explanatory but no less pivotal. Additionally there are many things worth rushing for when it comes to professor levels; adjutants for +damage/accuracy on key units, additional monthly gold of course, an acceptable number of tutoring points(6 is probably when it gets comfortable, and that's at B), +1 motivation from meals at A... and you need to reach B/B+ before you can really start working on Byleth's ranks without sacrificing something else.

A seminar with Hanneman and his D+(?) Bow rank on the other hand , will give your units 30/38 bow exp with a strength. That's really not a lot especially if you're giving up on tutoring them as a result, and very few need the Reason in the GD.

Sounds pretty complicated to low turn either way, considering the enemy density nearby the boss. I don't doubt people will do it, but you'd need specific builds for several characters I'd wager; not just Lysithea.

See, we clearly feel differently about the investment. This was easy for me. I didn't have to sacrifice anything (the extra 30 from Hanneman could easily be made up in the two remaining weeks) and all the work was towards her endgame to begin with. Remember, she didn't see a single turn of combat. This would be even easier to achieve in the five or so forced battles prior to.

 

And I really don't understand the argument of Dark Spikes being niche. There are tons of tough units and bosses on horseback, and the spell is often times better than many other spells even against unmounted units. Having access to this spell early isn't JUST for Death Knight or other mounted enemies. Many early game one-shots are achieved using this spell. Grab it and try it out yourself. Then we can talk.

 

In regards to seminars, I'm not sure we're actually on different sides. There is certainly merit to both, and the conditions for choosing a seminar are many. It just so happened in this instance, it was definitely the best choice. Anyone who is playing on Maddening Non-NG+ is aware of how to properly exploit Exploring, and missing one day here or there, especially early on, isn't a big deal. From my second playthrough on I've achieved A Rank in Professor pre-timeskip, so this really is a non-issue. As for choosing Hanneman, it was actually really good. Two bow users and two black magic users getting 30 points, with the added bonus of getting bows on Leonie and Reason on Byleth? That's a super win in my book.