Lamest character in FE4

[TheEnd]

Lakche + 100 Kills Hero Sword = One Sword Goddess~

10 hits in row = Win~

But seriously, ClaudeAyra make one of the best mage killers ever in this game.

High SPD and SKL and LCK AND MGC AND MDEF.

Their HP are average and the DEF might be low, but I wouldn't worry when they have that kind of AVO.

The only thing that you really need to worry about is their STR. But that was nothing that savestate can't fix.

Why do you need 10 hits when the enemy is already dead after 3? Moreover, Hero Sword overrides Continue, so Skasaher is actually a better candidate for it. Unless you want to overkill. But, if you're going for that, then you might as well give Lakche Power, Speed, Skill, Knight and Leg rings.

Also, Fee, Aless and Celice are good enough mage killers. No need cripple Lakche and Skasaher so that they can join that squad. Want high overall stats with savestating? Ayra x Dew. Look at all those exploitable balanced growths.

[Fia]

Why do you need 10 hits when the enemy is already dead after 3?

Chapter 10. Yurius. =P

Also, Fee, Aless and Celice are good enough mage killers. No need cripple Lakche and Skasaher so that they can join that squad. Want high overall stats with savestating? Ayra x Dew. Look at all those exploitable balanced growths.

I perfectly know that. I'm just point out that ClaudeAyra makes great mage killers, but even I don't see the point why I should sacrifice Lakche and Skasha. No thank you, I prefer LexAyra really.

[TheEnd]

Chapter 10. Yurius. =P

Just Holsety-critical him.

[Fia]

Just Holsety-critical him.

Nyah! I'm not a Holsety abuser. Unlike YOU. =P

But it's more fun to see Lakche jumping and slashing around like there is no tomorrow. FE4/5 Swordmaster's criticals are awesome after all.

[TheEnd]

Nyah! I'm not a Holsety abuser. Unlike YOU. =P

Define "Holsety abusing."

[Fia]

Define "Holsety abusing."

Using it more than you should? More than you need?

Honestly, I don't see the need to use Holsety in the whole game, except to deal with ThorHammer. But than again, in 1st Gen I prefer to use Fury instead of Levin against Leptor; while I prefer to use Selis instead of Sety against Ishtar. But I'm sure this applies only to me.

[TheEnd]

Oh wow. So, just using the best weapon in the game is "abusing" it?

[Fia]

Oh wow. So, just using the best weapon in the game is "abusing" it?

Nooo. I meant using it more than you should! Using it more than necessary. Like to kill some minor bosses, those dark bishops who guard the Castles in the Epilogue as an example? Since I'm sure I was one of the VERY rare oddball, who never see the use of Holsety.

[TheEnd]

Using it "more than necessary" only really applies once Holsety has 100 stars.

[Fia]

Actually, if Holsety already reached more than 50 kills, it can also counts as "more than necessary".

[AceNoctali]

Meh, I don't really like giving people credit for shit like monologues and convos with others. You don't really have to be using them, just putting them to that spot, then selling the thing. Then again, it's not like you have to add Deirdre to your perm team to make use of Silence either.

Still, 2x Silence + OHKOing powerz + Sigurd vault + random healing > Pursuit Ring imo.

I see no reason to pair him up Aideen. Deirdre, at least, has an auto-lover.

OHKOing powerz both in KOing enemies AND being KOed by enemies, don't forget that. At least Adan can take a couple of physical hits, and enemy mage users are seldom seen in the First Generation ; Diadora would be in grave danger if you put her on the wrong place while using her for healing in a middle of a battle, which can be quite easy. Granted, she has that Circlet, which allows her to become an evade god for the rest of the enemy turn if she manages to survive a hit, but with her (physical) wet paper bag defenses, an OKHO is a high possibility.

Again, Bow inheritance for Lester, free Pursuit Ring to go with it, and High Strength stat, if you use him as a husband for Edin in a non-ranked run (Skill is fixed with the Killer Bow's high accuracy, and the Killer Bow's light weight allows Lester to make enough use of that Pursuit Ring even with the low Speed growth).

That being said, if the playthrough is ranked, then I agree with you, Adan/Edin pairing is not recommended at all.

Edited December 10, 2008 by AceNoctali

[Mekkah]

Deirdre doesn't get OHKOed by anything but powerful enemy bosses. Not that she gets to face an awful lot of things, but none of the things she will face will OHKO her. Yeah, Ardan takes hits nicely, but he sucks massive dick at dishing them out.

Meh @ Pursuit Ring being free. You have 2719237321 moneys in 1st gen anyway, unless you're trying to goldchain to garbage units like Alec and Noish and Beowulf. And during the inheritance, the money the parents hold is divided by 20 or something. So it's very easy for some other father to buy the Pursuit Ring. Jamka or Lex, for example, would have absolutely no trouble doing it.

Str may be high, but Def and Ambush are beyond useless for the kids (one can't fight at all for a long time, the other cannot do close range), and their low Spd also hurts the evade and the things they're borderline on doubling (like those Barons in the arena with tomes or swords).

Plus, I don't give an awful lot of points to units for being father anyway. Performance on the battlefield is more important, and Ardan is all things taken into account the worst there.

[Swordsalmon]

Noish may be garbage, but he is by far the best husband for Ayra.

LexxAyra is faster, gives minor Neir blood, and Elite and Ambush. Best pairing for Ayra is easily that. ^_^

[Chalis]

Again, Bow inheritance for Lester, free Pursuit Ring to go with it, and High Strength stat, if you use him as a husband for Edin in a non-ranked run (Skill is fixed with the Killer Bow's high accuracy, and the Killer Bow's light weight allows Lester to make enough use of that Pursuit Ring even with the low Speed growth).

That being said, if the playthrough is ranked, then I agree with you, Adan/Edin pairing is not recommended at all.

It doesn't matter if it is or not ranked because unless someone has an attachment to use Adan (for whatever reason) he is an incredible pain to use. I have never bothered to train him, but I have heard of his awful ability to level up. His speed is never high enough to put that pursuit to use, and not to mention his skill and luck is horrendous. Adan/Edin is about as recommended as Claude/Edin. Useless to none skills (Lester is ranged, how often is that Ambush going to pay off?), a very bad unit (At least Rana has more stave availability with Claude; she's near useless with Adan, and arguably, so is Lester.)

But we're not talking about fathering.

At least Diadora is easier to level though staff abuse

, and Celice gets that wonderful resistance growth.

[Seph]

LexxAyra is faster, gives minor Neir blood, and Elite and Ambush. Best pairing for Ayra is easily that.

You can still get NoishxAyra easily. I got it at the end of Chapter 2 I believe, so other people can easily get it at the beginning of Chapter 3. Also, you can't pair Ayra with Lex since you need to get the Hero Sword (I COULD be wrong at this though). It's not much of a problem, nor does it involve luck.

Elite is more useful for other units, such as Lex!Tiltyu (Tinny really needs it much more than Lakche and Skasaha), so you're just wasting it on Skasaha and Lakche since they come really early.

If you want to talk about skills, don't bother. Lakche and Skasaha will have Critical and Charge, giving them extreme combat potential. They are much more suited for combat than Lex!Ayra, EVEN with Elite.

http://fea.fewiki.net/fea.php?character=la...ish&game=4x

http://fea.fewiki.net/fea.php?character=la...lex&game=4x

They have nearly equal averages, while I admit Lex is a little superior, Lakche as Noish's daughter is superior overall thanks to the skills she receives.

http://fea.fewiki.net/fea.php?character=sk...lex&game=4x

http://fea.fewiki.net/fea.php?character=sk...ish&game=4x

Again, barely any difference.

Noish > Lex as a husband for Ayra.

This pairing also has the advantage that, a useless parent like Noish can be used while Lex can give his awesomeness as a parent to other children.

Edited December 10, 2008 by Julius

[Swordsalmon]

You can still get NoishxAyra easily. I got it at the end of Chapter 2 I believe, so other people can easily get it at the beginning of Chapter 3. Also, you can't pair Ayra with Lex since you need to get the Hero Sword (I COULD be wrong at this though). It's not much of a problem, nor does it involve luck.

Elite is more useful for other units, such as Lex!Tiltyu (Tinny really needs it much more than Lakche and Skasaha), so you're just wasting it on Skasaha and Lakche since they come really early.

If you want to talk about skills, don't bother. Lakche and Skasaha will have Critical and Charge, giving them extreme combat potential. They are much more suited for combat than Lex!Ayra, EVEN with Elite.

http://fea.fewiki.net/fea.php?character=la...ish&game=4x

http://fea.fewiki.net/fea.php?character=la...lex&game=4x

They have nearly equal averages, while I admit Lex is a little superior, Lakche as Noish's daughter is superior overall thanks to skill.

http://fea.fewiki.net/fea.php?character=sk...lex&game=4x

http://fea.fewiki.net/fea.php?character=sk...ish&game=4x

Again, barely any difference.

Noish > Lex as a husband for Ayra.

This pairing also has the advantage that, a useless parent like Noish can be used while Lex can give his awesomeness as a parent to other children.

Lex gives Ayra the Hero Sword at Chapter 3, and they get 100 love points from their talk. Noish has to be next to Ayra for a long while.

Though pairing Lex with Tiltyu deprives Arthur and Teeny of any Magic stat and Pursuit. Elite is nice for them, but the children have to rely on Wrath for offense.

Why is Critical needed when both already have Meteor Sword for hax offense? :o

Elite makes Lakche and Skasaha reach their averages far faster, though.

Noish would be better off with someone like Fury. Phee becomes much better, and Sety's always good regardless of father.

[Seph]

Lex gives Ayra the Hero Sword at Chapter 3, and they get 100 love points from their talk. Noish has to be next to Ayra for a long while.

Yeah, so you can't get them together at Chapter 2, can you? This gives Noish!Ayra an advantage. If my calculations are correct, they have to stand together for exactly 72 turns. That's not much of a hassle, trust me, because if you keep them together in Chapter 1 and 2 you can do it easily. You don't even have to keep them together in Chapter 3 if you go that way.

By using that logic, Noish and Ayra pair up at the same time as Lex and Ayra. Why? Because you have to stall to get the Hero Sword. Most people aren't like me though, they don't keep Noish and Ayra together forever. Still, Lex and Ayra and Noish and Ayra will become lovers at the same chapter, chapter 3, if my calculations are correct.

Lover bonuses aren't important in FE4 anyway, since it's so easy.

Though pairing Lex with Tiltyu deprives Arthur and Teeny of any Magic stat and Pursuit. Elite is nice for them, but the children have to rely on Wrath for offense.

I said such as, so it was just an example, other pairings can work too, such as Lex!Bridget.

Arthur and Tinny get Wrath, Ambush and Elite. They are amazing too. Give Arthur a Hero Sword and Wind and give Tinny a Tron, and they will kill nearly everything.

Why is Critical needed when both already have Meteor Sword for hax offense?

The logic I used meant that Noish fails as a father anyway, but he makes Ayra's kids even godlier so yeah. That's why Lex shouldn't be used as a father for Ayra's children, since he is a really good father for others.

Also, with Critical Lakche can kill really powerful enemies such as Ishtar and Chapter 10 Julius. Basically, the powerful bosses.

Elite makes Lakche and Skasaha reach their averages far faster, though.

Lakche and Skasaha need Elite the least. They come at the beginning. While units like Tinny, Faval, etc. they need it A LOT more than those two.

Besides, the skills from Noish make Lakche and Skasaha forget about their lost levels (if their parent was Lex).

Also, you can always pass around the Elite Ring, though it's not good, you get near infinite money anyway.

Noish would be better off with someone like Fury. Phee becomes much better, and Sety's always good regardless of father.

You're just wasting Fury while you could be using her for someone useful like Claude and Levin. Levin!Sety is godly, we know that, while Claude!Fee is an excellent healer.

What does Noish!Sety have? Disgusting magic growth? He doesn't even have swords to compensate (as in Lex!Tiltyu).

http://fea.fewiki.net/fea.php?character=se...ish&game=4x

10% magic growth. Sety is not good.

Edited December 10, 2008 by Julius

[Mekkah]

10% magic growth. Sety is not good.

lol at suggesting Lex/Tiltyu then complaining about Sety's Mag growth

[Seph]

You didn't even read my post. The only good thing Sety needed was magic, which he doesn't have. Tinny and Arthur may not either, but they can compensate for it via other factors. These are swords, high strength and defence, Wrath, Ambush and Elite. Sety can't compensate at all.

What does Noish!Sety have? Disgusting magic growth? He doesn't even have swords to compensate (as in Lex!Tiltyu).

Also:

http://fea.fewiki.net/fea.php?character=tinnylex&game=4x

Not as bad as Sety. That's not disgusting at all.

http://fea.fewiki.net/fea.php?character=ar...lex&game=4x

Not as bad as Sety again, but it is disgusting. However, Arthur gets the Hero Sword. Sety can't use anything BUT magic.

Sety can't even use staves well because of his crappy magic.

Edited December 10, 2008 by Julius

[Swordsalmon]

Yeah, so you can't get them together at Chapter 2, can you? This gives Noish!Ayra an advantage. If my calculations are correct, they have to stand together for exactly 72 turns. That's not much of a hassle, trust me, because if you keep them together in Chapter 1 and 2 you can do it easily. You don't even have to keep them together in Chapter 3 if you go that way.

By using that logic, Noish and Ayra pair up at the same time as Lex and Ayra. Why? Because you have to stall to get the Hero Sword. Most people aren't like me though, they don't keep Noish and Ayra together forever. Still, Lex and Ayra and Noish and Ayra will become lovers at the same chapter, chapter 3, if my calculations are correct.

Lover bonuses aren't important in FE4 anyway, since it's so easy.

I said such as, so it was just an example, other pairings can work too, such as Lex!Bridget.

Arthur and Tinny get Wrath, Ambush and Elite. They are amazing too. Give Arthur a Hero Sword and Wind and give Tinny a Tron, and they will kill nearly everything.

The logic I used meant that Noish fails as a father anyway, but he makes Ayra's kids even godlier so yeah. That's why Lex shouldn't be used as a father for Ayra's children, since he is a really good father for others.

Also, with Critical Lakche can kill really powerful enemies such as Ishtar and Chapter 10 Julius. Basically, the powerful bosses.

Lakche and Skasaha need Elite the least. They come at the beginning. While units like Tinny, Faval, etc. they need it A LOT more than those two.

Besides, the skills from Noish make Lakche and Skasaha forget about their lost levels (if their parent was Lex).

Also, you can always pass around the Elite Ring, though it's not good, you get near infinite money anyway.

You're just wasting Fury while you could be using her for someone useful like Claude and Levin. Levin!Sety is godly, we know that, while Claude!Fee is an excellent healer.

What does Noish!Sety have? Disgusting magic growth? He doesn't even have swords to compensate (as in Lex!Tiltyu).

http://fea.fewiki.net/fea.php?character=se...ish&game=4x

10% magic growth. Sety is not good.

Having Noish and Ayra become lovers by Chapter 2 is a disadvantage, because you won't get her Hero Sword. Also, keeping characters together reduces the amount of combat they can enter on the player's phase.

The 100 love points is already a fifth of what Lex and Ayra need to become lovers. They can both fight without ending their turns next to each-other all the time, and Ayra one-rounds everyone with the Hero Sword.

Though it can damage the ranks. Using faster pairings are generally better than slower ones.

Giving Arthur the Hero Sword deprives it from Leaf, though. :/

Claude is a pretty bad father, so logic dictates we should pair him with Ayra and the kids will still be great. :o

Which spends money that can be used on stat rings and stronger weapons.

Indeed, Levin and Claude are the superior choices. Yet also, Azel is the best father for Arthur and Teeny, as he gives Pursuit and Minor Fala blood, and will actually be killing more enemies without having to be dropped to half HP. Noish is one of Fury's best choices, as Phee has much better offense and defense.

Sety has a Lightning tome regardless of pairing, which has 14 might. With Noish, Sety has Pursuit, Critical, Continue, and Charge. Sety's offense is still going to be great.

[Agro]

Even Alec!Sety is pretty usable. Sety is pretty hard to screw up since he has a Light tome and Pursuit all the time. Azel and Tiltyu give some decent kids but none are incredible. Lex and Tiltyu make the kids uber, and you don't have to worry about Tinny and Arthur trying to catch up because they gain levels so fast.

[Seph]

I don't think you are the most hated member on Serenes. I think that belongs to Destiny Hero.

Having Noish and Ayra become lovers by Chapter 2 is a disadvantage, because you won't get her Hero Sword. Also, keeping characters together reduces the amount of combat they can enter on the player's phase.

I was just showing you how fast Noish and Ayra can become lovers. I am aware of that. Look at what I said here:

Still, Lex and Ayra and Noish and Ayra will become lovers at the same chapter, chapter 3, if my calculations are correct.

The 100 love points is already a fifth of what Lex and Ayra need to become lovers. They can both fight without ending their turns next to each-other all the time, and Ayra one-rounds everyone with the Hero Sword.

This is not so correct. Lex and Ayra need 400 love points at the beginning of Chapter 3, so 400 / 7 = 58 (you can't have 57.1 turns). They have to stand together for 58 turns. 72 - 58 = 14. Just 14 turns difference! Lex and Ayra have to stand together most of the time, nearly as much as Noish and Ayra with a little difference. Lex and Ayra and Noish and Ayra actually have the same love growth. The only difference is the conversation. Since FE4 is much easier than other games, being next to each-other all the time doesn't actually bother them much. Sure, it could be a small disadvantage, but it's not making you lose chapters, especially since you have the Arena in this game. Noish is garbage anyway so his levels don't matter as much as your other units (some levels are needed though in order to improve his children's bases) and Ayra beats the characters in the Arena far more easily than your other characters. Don't forget that you will be clearing chapters faster with Noish!Ayra at Generation 2, because Lex's children from that generation will be even stronger, therefore they will just kill everything in sight. The Ayra having Hero Sword is not actually a good thing, since it overrides Continue. She should have a Silver Sword.

Though it can damage the ranks. Using faster pairings are generally better than slower ones.

I am trying to say that it barely makes a difference (if you're not ranking) since FE4 is so easy. Can you deny that? If that difference is small, then it shouldn't affect your playthrough.

If we are talking about ranks. You always debate about ranks in the other board, am I correct? Then why even say that? That's like saying smoking is generally better even though it can damage your body.

Giving Arthur the Hero Sword deprives it from Leaf, though. :/

Not only does Arthur need the Hero Sword more than Leaf after promotion (Arthur can't even use the sword before getting promoted while Leaf can use a Hero Axe or Lance), but also:

http://serenesforest.net/fe4/location.html

You get 2 Hero Swords.

Claude is a pretty bad father, so logic dictates we should pair him with Ayra and the kids will still be great.

I don't know the point of this sentence. They won't be great and Claude!Ayra is awful simply because it sucks compared to the others and it's wasting your options. They can't be good mage killers because of their poor Res cap and they can't fly (unlike Fee) which won't allow them to kill the dark mages at the Epilogue. Lex!Ayra is much better than that. Claude!Ayra can't even give any new skills to the children.

Which spends money that can be used on stat rings and stronger weapons.

Generally, your strong weapons are going to be passed on anyway. Faval gets Ichival, and Sety gets Holsety, Lakche gets Hero Sword / Silver Sword and so on. This is one advantage of Noish!Skasaha, you can actually pass weapons to him, unlike Lex!Skasaha. You're going to pass on your stat rings too. You should calculate which of your children need the stat rings the most and pass it on accordingly. You should give your stat rings to your weaker units anyway. And besides, you don't always have to Elite Ring abuse. You get so much cash that if you buy an Elite Ring, clear the Arena and sell the Ring, you'll have like 50000 gold left anyway. And besides, look at the way I said it, as if I was offering an extra option:

Also, you can always pass around the Elite Ring, though it's not good, you get near infinite money anyway.

It's not the best thing in the world, but you can do it once in a while.

Indeed, Levin and Claude are the superior choices. Yet also, Azel is the best father for Arthur and Teeny, as he gives Pursuit and Minor Fala blood, and will actually be killing more enemies without having to be dropped to half HP. Noish is one of Fury's best choices, as Phee has much better offense and defense.

Lex is the best father for Arthur and Tinny, I can debate on that too if you want. Arthur and Tinny will be reaching their averages much faster thanks to Elite, and with Ambush and Wrath they will be killing nearly everything. As the above poster said, Azel and Tiltyu's children are decent but not incredible. They can't do.. much. Tinny is good at healing and that's about it. Trust me, I've tried both. That's not the situation with Lex and Tiltyu's children. You always want incredible over decent. There is always the Pursuit Ring for Tinny/Arthur. It's not favoritism either since they will probably need it the most in your army, and everyone and their mother has Pursuit. Why bother with Noish!Fury when you have Levin or Claude, seriously? And besides, Noish!Ayra actually makes him useful.

Sety has a Lightning tome regardless of pairing, which has 14 might. With Noish, Sety has Pursuit, Critical, Continue, and Charge. Sety's offense is still going to be great.

http://fea.fewiki.net/fea.php?character=se...ish&game=4x

He can only get 18 magic and 26 speed.. Pursuit and Continue aren't going to help him much. Even if Noish!Sety has good offense, he's just garbage anyway since you're wasting your MUCH better options, such as Levin!Sety which is god incarnate, your strongest combat unit.

That's not even in this debate anyway. Noish!Ayra is over 9000 times better than Noish!Fury.

Noish!Ayra > Lex!Ayra

I was hoping you'd answer back.. I get pretty bored during the holidays.

Edited December 11, 2008 by Julius

[AceNoctali]

Deirdre doesn't get OHKOed by anything but powerful enemy bosses. Not that she gets to face an awful lot of things, but none of the things she will face will OHKO her. Yeah, Ardan takes hits nicely, but he sucks massive dick at dishing them out.

Meh @ Pursuit Ring being free. You have 2719237321 moneys in 1st gen anyway, unless you're trying to goldchain to garbage units like Alec and Noish and Beowulf. And during the inheritance, the money the parents hold is divided by 20 or something. So it's very easy for some other father to buy the Pursuit Ring. Jamka or Lex, for example, would have absolutely no trouble doing it.

Str may be high, but Def and Ambush are beyond useless for the kids (one can't fight at all for a long time, the other cannot do close range), and their low Spd also hurts the evade and the things they're borderline on doubling (like those Barons in the arena with tomes or swords).

Plus, I don't give an awful lot of points to units for being father anyway. Performance on the battlefield is more important, and Ardan is all things taken into account the worst there.

I didn't knew that, in Beowulf's case, having Pursuit + Charge + Mount + Swords (aka best physical weapon type of the game) + good growths overall + giving Lachesis some much needed stat boosts via convo was garbage. O_O

Like it or not, but FE4's main selling point (or gimmick, if you prefer), is the love and inheritance system. As such, it should be taken in account for all characters just as much as their combat potential. Granted, Adan is not a very good father either (one of the worst, in fact : what he gives, Lex almost always has already, and gives even better), but he does have a few good points for him, if you're willing to exploit them.

That being said, I do despise Adan just as much as you. It's just I was playing Devil's advocate for him (even though I was engaged in a losing battle, I know).

[Mekkah]

Like it or not, but FE4's main selling point (or gimmick, if you prefer), is the love and inheritance system. As such, it should be taken in account for all characters just as much as their combat potential. Granted, Adan is not a very good father either (one of the worst, in fact : what he gives, Lex almost always has already, and gives even better), but he does have a few good points for him, if you're willing to exploit them.

hmnah. Them being a father to anyone doesn't affect their own performance in any way, except that they get 10% hit/avo if they're in support range of the mom, and an occasional lover critical. And they can be just as fatherly at the base.

When it comes to making FE4 tier lists, I want to be able to reflect their usefulness and to which extent they are good units to use. Ardan is my preferred partner for Leen, but he's still the worst unit. We have seperate pairing discussions about wo is a good father for who.

I didn't knew that, in Beowulf's case, having Pursuit + Charge + Mount + Swords (aka best physical weapon type of the game) + good growths overall + giving Lachesis some much needed stat boosts via convo was garbage. O_O

He's not as bad as Deirdre, Ardan, Dew, etc, and better than Noish as well, but he's definitely not as good as Sigurd, Fin, Lex, Holyn, etc. Having the option of swords is cool, but not being able to use lances limits his 2-range and power options by a lot. Charge is an okay skill, but nothing to rely on, and occasionally forces him to take an extra hit. Those stat boosts to Lachesis are extremely minor and I don't really give talk events any weight like that (it's good for Lachesis' position, since it's an improvement on her stats, but that's it). It's mostly Str anyway, and that's the one thing Lachesis does not have problems with.

[AceNoctali]

hmnah. Them being a father to anyone doesn't affect their own performance in any way, except that they get 10% hit/avo if they're in support range of the mom, and an occasional lover critical. And they can be just as fatherly at the base.

When it comes to making FE4 tier lists, I want to be able to reflect their usefulness and to which extent they are good units to use. Ardan is my preferred partner for Leen, but he's still the worst unit. We have seperate pairing discussions about wo is a good father for who.

I dunno if you plan to work on a Children Second Gen tier list (me thinks it would be too complicated to do, though), but the inheritance system can make or break a character in usefulness and thus its quality in the tier list. Take for example Arthur, depending if he has Holsety or not, that can make a big difference in ranked runs, if you can manage to pull out the piring in the first place.

And you meant Sylvia, not Leen, there, right ?

He's not as bad as Deirdre, Ardan, Dew, etc, and better than Noish as well, but he's definitely not as good as Sigurd, Fin, Lex, Holyn, etc. Having the option of swords is cool, but not being able to use lances limits his 2-range and power options by a lot. Charge is an okay skill, but nothing to rely on, and occasionally forces him to take an extra hit. Those stat boosts to Lachesis are extremely minor and I don't really give talk events any weight like that (it's good for Lachesis' position, since it's an improvement on her stats, but that's it). It's mostly Str anyway, and that's the one thing Lachesis does not have problems with.

Agreed with pretty much all of this (except the convo part : while the Strength boost is indeed not really needed, the +2 Skill boost is much welcome with her trash Skill of hers - and the +1 in Defense doesn't hurt either- ).

It's just that I found the term "garbage" a bit extreme to use in Beowulf's case.

Edited December 12, 2008 by AceNoctali