FionordeQuester vs. Esau of Isaac

[FionordeQuester]

Your move...

[lolDeath]

lol, Please tell me this is a joke.

[FionordeQuester]

A joke? Why?

[Ϲharlie]

What exactly is the point of this?

[Meteor]

What exactly is the point of this?

I believe they wanted to have a public debate of evolution.

[FionordeQuester]

No, that's not the point, the point is so that me and Esau can stop polluting the Abortion thread with our argument. Death asked me very nicely to get the "Abortion" thread back on topic, and it became clear to me that the only way to do that was to create a whole nother topic. And no, this is supposed to be a private debate, so I would like it if no one interfered.

And heck, I'm not trying to talk about evolution at all, I'm just trying to finish the argument I'm having with Esau.

[Chalis]

I think it was about the forming of Earth, actually.

[FionordeQuester]

It was about a whole bunch of different things really.

Edited November 24, 2008 by FionordeQuester

[Meteor]

And no, this is supposed to be a private debate, so I would like it if no one interfered.

Public in the sense than anyone may view it (topic) instead of hidden from everyone (PM).

[Esau of Isaac]

My move? Shouldn't you post your position so that I can respond to it?

[FionordeQuester]

Nope, you still have yet to respond to all the points I made in the Abortion topic.

Edit: Just copy and paste my points here, then respond to them, in case you didn't know.

Edited November 24, 2008 by FionordeQuester

[Nightgraves]

No offense, you should have explained all that in the first post XD. Now a page was wasted n explaining XD

[Esau of Isaac]

Nope, you still have yet to respond to all the points I made in the Abortion topic.

Edit: Just copy and paste my points here, then respond to them, in case you didn't know.

These ones?

That's assuming that oceans really are what formed first. Willing to prove it?

No, it's assuming that Earth existed as a barren and lifeless oblate spheroid before eventually forming oceans from a large abundance of oxygen and hydrogen.

I am contesting the idea of the Bible, that the oceans came first, not confirming it; you are now acting as though I am holding your opinion and you are holding mine, and you're honestly starting to weird me out.

The earth wasn't a "large ball of water", it was formless at first. Like I said though, how exactly is it impossible that the water came before there was Earth?

Because oceans require it to form within the Earth's atmosphere, which requires something of sufficient mass to hold. Arguing that oceans came first and then rock formed withing them is borderline retarded.

Right, and how do you know that? How exactly do you know that the Earth was barren and lifeless before it had water?

Because Earth is a planet, and to be a planet, there are prerequisites that must be fulfilled.

If you're asking me to prove that the Earth did not start in the form it has today, then this discussion will be particularly saddening.

Edited November 24, 2008 by Esau of Isaac

[FionordeQuester]

No, it's assuming that Earth existed as a barren and lifeless oblate spheroid before eventually forming oceans from a large abundance of oxygen and hydrogen.

Actually...that's what I meant, sorry. What I meant to say was, willing to confirm that the barren rock came first.

I am contesting the idea of the Bible, that the oceans came first, not confirming it; you are now acting as though I am holding your opinion and you are holding mine, and you're honestly starting to weird me out.

Um...yeah, that was a mistake, sorry.

Because oceans require it to form within the Earth's atmosphere, which requires something of sufficient mass to hold. Arguing that oceans came first and then rock formed withing them is borderline retarded.

So...your saying that the Earth needs an atmosphere, and in order to have an atmosphere, it has to be a big solid, so that its force of gravity is strong enough to attract what's needed for an atmosphere?

Because Earth is a planet, and to be a planet, there are prerequisites that must be fulfilled.

So the Earth was required to be barren and lifeless at first as a prerequisite before it could become a planet? Then how do you explain Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune? Aren't those planets made out entirely of gas?

[Esau of Isaac]

Actually...that's what I meant, sorry. What I meant to say was, willing to confirm that the barren rock came first.

Actually, I think it's down to you to argue why the oceans would come first, since it's the consensus view that oceans came about afterwards when the Earth actually had mass to, you know, facilitate the existence of oceans.

But sure.

So...your saying that the Earth needs an atmosphere, and in order to have an atmosphere, it has to be a big solid, so that its force of gravity is strong enough to attract what's needed for an atmosphere?

For oceans like ours, yes. For water to exist on it? No, not necessarily

And I just know that you're going to try and counter that other areas are known to have ice caps that lack an atmosphere like ours, but please, for the sake of all of us, don't make this more painful.

So the Earth was required to be barren and lifeless at first as a prerequisite before it could become a planet? Then how do you explain Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune? Aren't those planets made out entirely of gas?

No, the Earth must have enough mass to be spherical and gravitationally dominant. And I don't think I've ever heard of a planet of water existing anywhere.

And yeah, the Earth would had to have been barren and lifeless to begin with, because life did not appear until two billion years after its beginnings, and there is plenty evidence to suggest that the appearance of water and life was far on down the line.

[Yarias]

So the Earth was required to be barren and lifeless at first as a prerequisite before it could become a planet? Then how do you explain Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune? Aren't those planets made out entirely of gas?

Those planets probably all have solid cores.

Either the solid cores formed first, and then attracted lots of gas (and the gas stayed because it was at a lower temperature, as the planets are farther from the sun than Earth)

or a bunch of gas gravitationally collapsed and then when smaller solid objects became gravitationally bound they eventually settled into the center of the gas cloud, eventually forming a core.

---

Also, here's a really simple argument that Earth was barren before it had water on it. The energy gained from the gravitational collapse of the material that makes up the Earth would have put the temperature of the Earth WELL ABOVE the boiling point of water. Since there is no liquid water, there can be no life similar to what we have now (cells need water).