Dat Nick Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 At the very least RD Rolf doesn't need AS much EXP and effort funnelled into him, and he actually starts decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Why are people debating FE10 in here? There's a tier list topic there as well, y'know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 (edited) To compare the two Rolfs from the two games, as well as the rest of the Archers in FE history. Edited January 25, 2009 by Nathan Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Don't forget debunking that all of them not from FE4 or 10 are any good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sangosan Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 To compare the two Rolfs from the two games, as well as the rest of the Archers in FE history. What do other archers/other Rolfs have to do with Rolf's placement on this list? I don't get it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of the White Lake Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 (edited) And what level was this Rolf? My Rolf was level 19 Marksman. Why? Also, MightyZigaro said that Shinon could beat the capability of doing 21 damage per hit to the auoras. What could Shinon do? It's not like I'm completely against what you guys say, nor am I trying to say that Rolf is the best unit in the game. Have any sudgestions to how I can play RD better? P.S. I haven't actually been able to finish the game because I played through RD wrong and didn't have enough units high enough in stats. So I technically cannot boast that I've beaten the game with Rolf at his current status. I'm gonna have to play the game over again once I've gotten a "fixed" North America RD disc. Edited January 25, 2009 by Sir Michael of Crimea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 (edited) I'm saying how Shinon's more useful than that... at the very, VERY end and maybe near the middle, Rolf is better than Shinon assuming they're the same level. But Shinon is always 13 levels ahead, and on HM that gap closes by very little; it'll end up being like 7 or 8 levels at best, where Shinon still takes the lead... but anyways, back to FE9. Rolf sucks. Edited January 25, 2009 by Nathan Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 (edited) What do other archers/other Rolfs have to do with Rolf's placement on this list? They don't, I was just using that as an example that archers DO suck. This guy seemed to be under the impression that archers not being able to counter at melee excused their failure in previous FEs. Edited January 25, 2009 by MightyZagaro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riariadne Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 Sigh... I like Rolf too. I've seen many, MANY debates about Rolf, but putting him any higher than he is without me having anything to back a higher placement up would be favoritism. Granted, I'm still having trouble keeping him out of bottom tier, and right now, this is the best I can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 (edited) I'm going to make an FE9 tier list that's probably more accurate for now I'm not putting them in order within tiers, i'll decide on the individual placements later EDIT: Top is ordered. Top Titania Oscar Jill Kieran Reyson High Tanith Boyd Ike Zihark Mist Astrid Marcia Makalov Upper Mid Volke Soren Rhys Stefan Geoffrey Nephenee Muarim Mordecai Lower Mid Ilyana Brom Gatrie Ranulf Tormod Tauroneo Haar Low Sothe Calill Janaff Mia Lethe Nasir Largo Ena Ulki Devdan Shinon Bottom Elincia Lucia Bastian Rolf You're missing a couple chars on your current list too. Edited January 28, 2009 by Nathan Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykan12 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I discussed with Mekkah a little why Tanith > Ike, I can go into more detail about the match-up if anyone cares. Some things about your list don't make much sense though, Nathan. You have Oscar way too far separated from Kieran and Jill, and it's pretty easy to argue that Oscar's durability is mostly overkill while he loses offence to both of them, so the only reason he'll win period is superior outgoing support benefits and some earlygame utility while they're not around. You also have the tigers completely underrated. Muarim doesn't have Soren's sucky earlygame, and is easily one of your top 3 midgame units, and he has major wins in durability and move that last forever even if his atk falters over the course of the game. All Soren has to counter-act that is staves. Last thing I felt like mentioning was overrating Zihark. We all know by now that myrmidons have among the suckiest attack in the game and Zihark is no exception to this. He'll have trouble killing things and only has unreliable crit to compensate. His durability isn't even necessarily that great either. If Muarim isn't fielded, he probably won't even get an A, and even if he did, he's losing out on 7 avoid. Astrid >>> all that, she grows twice as fast as him and gets axes upon promotion (along with all the benefits that entails, such as 1-2 range). Also, horsie. There are a couple other things, such as Lethe being a tad low (below Janaff? she has all this joining time win whereas Janaff sucks on offence forever) though maybe I'll mention it later when I'm not so tired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 (edited) (not ordered within tiers) i'll move jill up, and lol kieran is not even on the list it was 6 AM, I was checking to see if I had school or not (the answer was no) so I just put a bunch of stuff together (Boyd, Ike, and Soren are down to High/High/Up mid respectively) Enemy stats in parts around chapter 10 and past would be helpful in Jill vs Oscar. Oscar's getting like +42 from supports (Ike B and Kieran A) and they're both about even when they coexist. (L12 Oscar has 1 less Atk but 2 more AS, more Avoid, 7 HP, and the rest are pretty much the same). At promotion Oscar probably has like 30 more Avoid than her, though Jill has four more Def and 3 more Atk. I'd say they're definitely even, even if he's losing attack by 3. (Which sounds REALLY stupid in retrospect but still, 25 Avoid is massive) This is going to be around C17 if I'm not mistaken, so a B Ike (+20) + B Kieran (+15) = 35 whereas Jill gets like 7 evade from Mist. If you don't like B Ike for some reason (he could potentially have an A right now - but Soren could need the support too) then Jill is definitely winning. At 20/10 -> 20/15 the gap lessens to about 2 points of Attack + 4 Def + 61/65 evade vs 1 HP (doesn't matter) + 97/101 Evade. I need enemy stats at this point to determine if it's overkill or not, though. Rest assured, Zihark is going to the bottom of High if anything. He might go lower, actually.. but right now I don't care enough. Edited January 28, 2009 by Nathan Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riariadne Posted January 28, 2009 Author Share Posted January 28, 2009 (edited) OBJECTION! Rolf is low tier, not bottom. Edited January 28, 2009 by Reinfleche Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mekkah Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Because he said so and provided evidence with numbers, duh. Anyway, tell me when you did order within tiers, then I may comment and dig into numbers if I feel like it. If you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEnd Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 OBJECTION!Rolf is low tier, not bottom. Rolf is a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 (edited) Anyway, tell me when you did order within tiers, then I may comment and dig into numbers if I feel like it. If you want.If it helps Top and Bottom are ordered.EDIT here's a pretty half-assed attempt SUPER TOP Titania Top Oscar Jill Kieran Reyson High Boyd Tanith Ike Astrid Marcia Mist [Disputing in my head for now: Ike vs Tanith] Upper Mid Volke Zihark Muarim Stefan Makalov Rhys Soren Mordecai Geoffrey Nephenee Lower Mid Ranulf Tormod Ilyana Calill Brom Haar Gatrie Tauroneo Lethe Low Sothe Devdan Largo Nasir Mia Ulki Janaff Shinon Ena Bottom Elincia Lucia Bastian Rolf I'm going to take out Ena and Nasir for now. Edited February 7, 2009 by Nathan Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vykan12 Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Minor nitpick, hawks > Shinon. I did a comparison a long time ago, managed to dig it up: Shinon lv 20/1 (Steel bow): 32 hp, 18 MT, 15 skl, 13 spd, 9 def, 6 res, 9 luck, 35 avoJanaff lv 20/8 (Beak): 39 hp, 26 MT, 20 skl, 20 spd, 15 def, 12 res, 16 luck, 56 avo Janaff totally destroys Shinon, hell, he beats him even when he’s untransformed in terms of stats. So now let’s say sometime lategame, and I’ll give them both a double B support since I’m too lazy to search as to whether that’s plausible. Shinon lv 20/10 (B Rolf, B Janaff, Silver bow): 39 hp, 28 MT, 21 skl, 19 spd, 17 def, 10 res, 12 luck, 70 avo Janaff lv 20/13 (B Oscar, B Shinon, Beak): 46 hp, 29 MT, 24 skl, 23 spd, 20 def, 13 res, 18 luck, 89 avo Shinon’s still losing, albeit by far less. Then for the final few chapters; Shinon lv 20/17 (A Janaff, B Rolf, Silver bow): 44 hp, 32 MT, 26 skl, 23 spd, 12 res, 15 luck, 86 avo Janaff lv 20/18 (A Shinon, B Oscar, Beak): 53 hp, 32 MT, 28 skl, 27 spd, 15 res, 20 luck, 104 avo Nope, Shinon still doesn’t have anything meaningful on Janaff. Now you can go argue about transform issues, band reductions, forged weapons and whatnot all you want. There's also more detailed discussion about it here (second page, assuming 50 posts per page is your account settings) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 change applied i couldn't even see what I was doing there putting him above the hawks but oh well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordsalmon Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Boyd above Oscar. Having the best offense in the game (lol60% Strength, Axes, supports) and is doing better offensively and defensively from Chapter 2, due to 30 HP base and enough AS to one-round almost every enemy and thier 0 AS. Oscar's durability is much better, but he never has exactly great offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reikken Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Having the best offense in the game (lol60% Strength, Axes, supports) Conveniently omit the meh spd base and promotion gain, eh? As well as hit issues until later the game. Best atk in the game? Yes. Best offense? Of that I'm not so sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 (edited) Boyd above Oscar. Having the best offense in the game (lol60% Strength, Axes, supports) and is doing better offensively and defensively from Chapter 2, due to 30 HP base and enough AS to one-round almost every enemy and thier 0 AS. Oscar's durability is much better, but he never has exactly great offense.This is what you're saying.You want to shift Boyd up one whole tier above someone who, according to the tier list, is the second best character in the game? And you're just giving me the most vague description in the world to prove your point - that he's just that damn good to shift from the top of high to top of top? Sorry bud, try a little better next time. (You may know me as Raven elsewhere.) Edited January 29, 2009 by Nathan Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reikken Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Also, Titania is too low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 (edited) I'm not seeing what makes a tier of difference between Titania and Oscar. EDIT: I don't feel like pulling stats. I'm too lazy. Nasir and ena are now tiered. Edited January 31, 2009 by Nathan Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YokaiKnight Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 Send that bitch nigga Makalov to top of upper mid. He doesn't have anything so fantastic to compensate his weak joining that much. He's certainly not effective as fast as Marcia, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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