Imuabicus der Fertige Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 I´m currently trying this out, but I think my reclass path was a bit too basic [going Monk (not mastered) > Mage (mastered) > Warlock (not mastered) WR (not mastered) > WL], though currently my major problem is accuracy rather than damage. Note, my current run is on AM Maddening chapter 14, and I just found out I have to get the support with Gilbert, so no Crusher yet. Also, I guess, that I haven´t yet seen her perform as WL. My question is, how best to go about building her in general? With her accuracy problems right now, I thought that I should have gone Archer to get Hit+20, as well as get Darting Blow because right now even Armoured Enemies seem a challenge for her to double. But the problem I have with these is, that realistically I´m spending time in classes that Annette won´t be very good at, since they are STR based damage on top of it lowering her chances of getting more MAG to hit harder later on, which seems the point of that build. Then I thought, rather than getting Hit+20 and Darting Blow, should I not just spend as much time as possible in Mage, get Fiendish Blow while working toward Valkyrie to get Uncanny Blow. Because if getting her to double accurately weakens the main means of dealing damage with her build and is unreliable due to potential lack of MAG on top of it than that doesn´t seem that great. Additionally, Uncanny Blow seems better than Hit+20, if I understand it correctly, in that Uncanny Blow gives more HIT during attack but not otherwise out of combat, but Hit+20 always applies, which seems unnecessary, since her EP potential is not that great, even with WL enhanced stats. On top of that, with getting Valkyrie you also have her in a class that won´t just hinder her usefulness while working on necessary weapon ranks (since I can´t realistically estimate when you reach what weapon rank levels). So that, in essence, her skill set would look something like this: Axe Prowess X, Fiendish Blow, Uncanny Blow, Mag+2, (Authority X?) and then slap Nuvelle Flier Corps (or any flier battalion that doesn´t decrease MAG damage and increases HIT) on top of it? Also, what I don´t understand is, how does Lightning Axe actually work and interact with weapons/skills? Does it take the DMG you would have dealt with your weapon + skill and turns it into a magic damage attack, essentially retargeting it toward RES? Could I get Death Blow and have it be part of the DMG calculation as well as Fiendish Blow by some weird shenanigans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
------ Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 These are just my two cents since I've never actually done a Wyvern Annette build before (so please take what I say with a grain of salt), but Monk > Mage > Pegasus Knight > Valkyrie > Wyvern Lord seems like a good plan to me. In the end, this gets her Axe Prowess, Fiendish Blow, Darting Blow, Uncanny Blow and Mag +2; a pretty ideal setup for a player phase nuke. As for Lightning Axe, I'm not entirely sure of all the math behind it, but as far as I can gather, it takes your weapon's Mt and uses it to calculate a magic damage attack (like what magic weapons do with regular attacks, I think). So I can't imagine Death Blow helps us at all, since it only boosts Str and we're not dealing physical damage anymore. Using a high Mt, high durability weapon (like Steel Axe+) with Fiendish Blow would probably be your best bet for dealing the highest amount of damage per Lightning Axe. I hope this sort of helps. I'm just going off my limited knowledge of the game's mechanics here, so anyone else please feel free to correct me if I've gotten anything wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenticular Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 As I understand it, magic weapons and arts mean that you're working from your magic stat and your enemy's res stat. It bypasses strength entirely, so Death Blow wouldn't do anything. I don't think there's that much value in picking up Darting Blow for Wyvern Annette. Most of the time you're either going to be using Lightning Axe (and therefore can't double anyway) or a Bolt Axe or Crusher (which are both so damn heavy that your effective attack speed is going to be awful regardless). There'll inevitably be a few situations where it's exactly right for one particular combat, but I think it's a low priority. That said, being in Pegasus Knight for a bit can also help train up flying, and if you don't have anything else you want in your last ability slot, then why not? If you're worried about a character underperforming while you're picking up a class mastery, keep in mind that you can still gain class xp as an adjutant. It's only 100 class xp to master an intermediate class and if you have the bonus to class xp from the Cethleann statue and give the character a Knowledge gem, you gain 4 class xp per combat and only need to see 25 combats to pick up the mastery. That's easy enough to grab in one or two auxiliary battles and since you're an adjutant, it doesn't really matter that you're in a bad class (or that you're holding an accessory that doesn't help your combat performance at all). And as an extra bonus, since you gain less regular xp as an adjutant than as a main combatant, you won't level up as much from this so aren't losing out much on the class growths that you want. Uncanny Blow is probably better for the build than Hit +20 since, yeah, you aren't going to have that much of an enemy phase with her, but I don't think it's worth it. The requirements to get into Valkyrie are much higher than the requirements for Archer, it's more class xp to master it, and it only comes at level 20 which is also the point where the whole build is supposed to finally come together when you first get her on the back of a wyvern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 I used Wyvern Annette on my AM Maddening playthrough, and was quite happy with her. My final skill set was Axe Prowess, Magic +2, Fiendish Blow, Rally Speed, and Axe Crit +10. That said, I only view Axe Prowess and Fiendish Blow as essential, in case you want to work stuff like Darting Blow, Rally Resistance, Lancebreaker, Weight -3, or Authority Lv. X in there. More hit is always welcome, so I wouldn't say no to going for Hit +20 or Uncanny Blow. That said, they're both detours - training to C in Bows (a bane), or to B in Riding (neutral). I'm not positive the effort is worth the outcome, but if you're keen on high-investment, then either is a fine choice. Re: Speed, the only significant benchmark is "can Annette double enemy Armor/Fortress Knights with the Bolt Axe?" Doubling range doesn't matter with Lightning Axe (the combat art), nor with Dust on Crusher, and she's got no hope of doubling most other enemy types with the Bolt Axe. Accounting for class bases and modifiers, a Wyvern Lord has 22 Strength and 24 Speed. And the Bolt Axe has a Weight of 15. So, worst-case scenario, Annette has an Attack Speed of 24 - (15 - floor(22/5)) = 24 - 11 = 13, assuming she's not using a weighted equippable. Thus, she can doubles enemies with 9 Speed or less. If I recall, most enemy Fortress Knights are above this. So, going for Weight -3 (by background armor training), or Darting Blow (by Pegasus Knight mastery) could be worth it. As for batallions, I used Cichol Wyvern Co on her. She had relatively little competition for A Authority battalions, and the extra hit was welcome. But Nuvelle Fliers are ideal for maximizing damage. 6 hours ago, Imuabicus said: Also, what I don´t understand is, how does Lightning Axe actually work and interact with weapons/skills? Does it take the DMG you would have dealt with your weapon + skill and turns it into a magic damage attack, essentially retargeting it toward RES? Could I get Death Blow and have it be part of the DMG calculation as well as Fiendish Blow by some weird shenanigans? I'm almost positive it's this. It's unit Magic, plus weapon Might, plus other ability/battalion/equippable boosts, minus enemy Res. So Hammers go from taking a decent chunk from Armored enemies, to absolutely mutilating them. If you really want to have fun, try Lightning Axe of Ukonvasara - I got it into triple-digit damage on enemy Armors! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salinea Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 I went with Monk, Mage, Pegasus Knight, Wyvern Rider and Wyvern Lord in my current AM playthrough. Works very fine on Hard. I just use an Acc Ring to help with that (and Training Axes+ mostly) (mostly with Cichol Wyvern for battalion) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imuabicus der Fertige Posted June 24, 2021 Author Share Posted June 24, 2021 21 hours ago, lenticular said: Uncanny Blow is probably better for the build than Hit +20 since, yeah, you aren't going to have that much of an enemy phase with her, but I don't think it's worth it. The requirements to get into Valkyrie are much higher than the requirements for Archer, it's more class xp to master it, and it only comes at level 20 which is also the point where the whole build is supposed to finally come together when you first get her on the back of a wyvern 16 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: More hit is always welcome, so I wouldn't say no to going for Hit +20 or Uncanny Blow. That said, they're both detours - training to C in Bows (a bane), or to B in Riding (neutral). I'm not positive the effort is worth the outcome, but if you're keen on high-investment, then either is a fine choice. Yeah the key difference being that staying as a Valkyrie brings you a better skill, has you stay in magic oriented classes longer and thus more Mag (well as the % decides). The one thing you lose out on is Axefaire from WR, but not hitting at all loses more damage than hitting without Axefaire, and Annette missing with LA is a reset/DP. Assuming the focus here is LA and not Flier Annette. Plus you should be able to use LA from Horseback too (?) on top of having her spell list. Additionally, when thinking about it, we really only need to hit the minimum requirements for WL (however low or high they are – TH is not a game I´m familiar with). Since we don´t need stuff like Alert Stance/AS+ we could also focus on Riding to the point then, that we´d get Mov+1 somewhere down the lane giving Annette somewhat extra cheese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted June 24, 2021 Share Posted June 24, 2021 23 minutes ago, Imuabicus said: Additionally, when thinking about it, we really only need to hit the minimum requirements for WL (however low or high they are – TH is not a game I´m familiar with). Since we don´t need stuff like Alert Stance/AS+ we could also focus on Riding to the point then, that we´d get Mov+1 somewhere down the lane giving Annette somewhat extra cheese. The requirements are A Axes, A Flight, and C Lances. That said, the formula is generous enough that you can be at B+ Axes and B Flight, and still have a shot at certifying. As for Riding - to be blunt about it, achieving A+ in a neutral movement type, when you're generally not using a class of that type, is very hard to achieve. Especially when you're already training in another neutral movement type. I don't see Annette feasibly getting Movement +1 outside of a Valkyrie or Dark Knight build. Which, to be sure, I think are reasonably good classes for her, albeit without quite as much mobility as Wyvern Lord. 1 hour ago, Imuabicus said: Yeah the key difference being that staying as a Valkyrie brings you a better skill, has you stay in magic oriented classes longer and thus more Mag (well as the % decides). The one thing you lose out on is Axefaire from WR, but not hitting at all loses more damage than hitting without Axefaire, and Annette missing with LA is a reset/DP. Assuming the focus here is LA and not Flier Annette. Plus you should be able to use LA from Horseback too (?) on top of having her spell list. Interestingly enough, Valkyrie has a Magic modifier of 4 - so, compared to Wyvern Rider/Lord (both have Axefaire, and no Magic mod), she's only 1 point of damage shy with Lightning Axe. And, if you account for the chance to use higher-damage battalions in a grounded class, she might actually do more damage with Lightning Axe as a Valkyrie. Growths make little difference in this case (Wyvern classes are -.05, Valkyrie is +.05 Magic). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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