Which characters were improved in Three Hopes, and which characters came off worse?

[Etrurian emperor]

I'm surprised that Duke Aegir of all people came off better in this game. He's still a corrupt and selfish scumbag but not to an extreme degree. He plunges the empire into civil war just for personal profit, but he's probably honest when he says he really didn't want to do it, but felt he had no other choice. It was also a nice surprise that he's actually semi competent. In Three Houses Edelgard crushes him with barely any effort, but in this game he takes over one of the biggest forts in Fodlan, and even Hubert has to admit that Aegir is a decent enough leader. 

Its not to a huge degree but I think Caspar comes off a little bit better. I enjoyed the cutscenes where he talks to his dad. Their personalities mesh really well together, and its cute to see Caspar act as the excitable understudy to his dad in Golden Wildfire.  All in all Caspar's about the same as he always was, but his dad's presence just adds a little more to him.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I'm surprised that Duke Aegir of all people came off better in this game. He's still a corrupt and selfish scumbag but not to an extreme degree. He plunges the empire into civil war just for personal profit, but he's probably honest when he says he really didn't want to do it, but felt he had no other choice. It was also a nice surprise that he's actually semi competent. In Three Houses Edelgard crushes him with barely any effort, but in this game he takes over one of the biggest forts in Fodlan, and even Hubert has to admit that Aegir is a decent enough leader. 

Its not to a huge degree but I think Caspar comes off a little bit better. I enjoyed the cutscenes where he talks to his dad. Their personalities mesh really well together, and its cute to see Caspar act as the excitable understudy to his dad in Golden Wildfire.  All in all Caspar's about the same as he always was, but his dad's presence just adds a little more to him.

I genuinely think his dad is pretty cool and I wish he were playable (Holst didn't need to be the only new playable character, each route should have gotten at least one new playable character, though I suppose the Empire kind of already did with real!Monica, fine, two new playable characters, the Alliance could do with Nader as playable too). Shame he stands no chance of ever getting into Heroes what with being old, male and using a weapon type Heroes has displayed no interest of including.

[Dark Holy Elf]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

each route should have gotten at least one new playable character

I mean... they did, right? Monica, Rodrigue, Holst. Agreed that we could have gotten two per route easily though (Judith, Leopold, and... not sure who would fit AG best).

[Jotari]

20 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

I mean... they did, right? Monica, Rodrigue, Holst. Agreed that we could have gotten two per route easily though (Judith, Leopold, and... not sure who would fit AG best).

Well when I said new I meant new as in a person not featured in Three Houses (which is why I specified her as Real!Monica).

Edited July 19, 2022 by Jotari

[Dark Holy Elf]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Well when I said new I meant new as in a person not featured in Three Houses (which is why I specified her as Real!Monica).

Ah yeah, that makes sense. I think Rod was meant to be equivalent in this case as far as the devs were concerned, but I see what you're getting at.

[Seazas]

On 7/17/2022 at 12:49 PM, Dark Holy Elf said:

It perhaps goes without saying, but if her only goal were to live she wouldn't be fighting in a Fodlan war in the first place. It was always kinda implied that she's extracting concessions from whichever side she allies with (in both Houses and Hopes) but that's the type of thing that I'm very grateful to see made explicit.

On one level I agree with this, though I think the choice they made is valid. I think Three Hopes works if you're familiar with Three Houses, but would be awkward as heck if you aren't, because you lack some important context for the characters' ideologies.

 

Also adding another to characters who come off worse in this game, Ashe. On SB he does nothing but whine each month about how he's missed his chance to become a knight. He doesn't seem to care that Lonato, and his siblings, are all alive and well. I'm all for recruited characters having mixed feelings about joining sides (they should!), but this feels kinda like character assassination, given how important Ashe's family was to him in first game, regardless of route. May re-evaluate this if he gets some good stuff on AG, but for now it's pretty bad, like he's been reduced to a single character trait.

Well, it's simple why Ashe feels that way. He betrayed his entire dream and ideology. He successfully became a knight in this timeline only to turn tail on his king and now he's helping kill close associates. It would be character assassination if Ashe was anywhere near happy or content about it considering how much of a soft boy he's meant to be. Reminder, the Empire's declaring war on the Kingdom and Ashe has no real reason to hold a grudge against Dimitri or anyone from the Kingdom. So he's pretty much centered around a "what am I fighting for" moment. 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Seazas

[Dark Holy Elf]

1 hour ago, Seazas said:

Well, it's simple why Ashe feels that way. He betrayed his entire dream and ideology. He successfully became a knight in this timeline only to turn tail on his king and now he's helping kill close associates. It would be character assassination if Ashe was anywhere near happy or content about it considering how much of a soft boy he's meant to be. Reminder, the Empire's declaring war on the Kingdom and Ashe has no real reason to hold a grudge against Dimitri or anyone from the Kingdom. So he's pretty much centered around a "what am I fighting for" moment. 

To emphasize, I have no problem with Ashe disliking being on a route. Hell, I love that CF Felix and AM Lysithea are angry to be recruited; I don't want to see everyone turned into a bunch of yes-men for the player and the faction they chose.

I dislike that he seems to be entirely focused on "but now I'll never be a knight" (he has not yet mentioned his supposedly close associates, besides his father and his siblings, who are, again, all doing fine, and one of them explicitly turned against the Kingdom). It takes a singular character trait and dials it up to a level that I think makes him quite dislikable. He'd be happier if his father were dead but he could pursue his knightly dreams?

Edited July 19, 2022 by Dark Holy Elf

[Seazas]

10 hours ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

To emphasize, I have no problem with Ashe disliking being on a route. Hell, I love that CF Felix and AM Lysithea are angry to be recruited; I don't want to see everyone turned into a bunch of yes-men for the player and the faction they chose.

I dislike that he seems to be entirely focused on "but now I'll never be a knight" (he has not yet mentioned his supposedly close associates, besides his father and his siblings, who are, again, all doing fine, and one of them explicitly turned against the Kingdom). It takes a singular character trait and dials it up to a level that I think makes him quite dislikable. He'd be happier if his father were dead but he could pursue his knightly dreams?

Ashe's dream and ideals were all about being a knight. And he wasn't entirely focused on "not being knight" he has special dialogue with all those associates and isn't happy about betraying the Kingdom not just knightly reasons. He chose to live and it's in Ashe's character to dwell on these details often. It's what he did in Three Houses.

"He'd be happier if his father were dead but could pursue his knightly dreams." Yes. Yes he would be, because he doesn't agree with Lonato and his choices. Lonato himself told Ashe to follow what he thinks is right. It's the entire reason he got the strength to strike him down at all. Ashe would still be conflicted about it of course, I wouldn't deny that, but he staked everything on his ideal of justice.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Seazas

[Medeus]

On 7/16/2022 at 11:04 PM, Jotari said:

I think one way Claude could be improved on in both games here would be if the game actually came out and said that he has different religious beliefs than the church. Like he believed in some kind of Almyrian Animism or something. Because, he kind of has to right? He was raised in Almyria after all (though I suppose his mother could have raised him as an adherent if Seiros depending on how devout she is, though she's probably not that devout if she's running off to hook up with heathens). Making him of a different faith makes a more tangible reason for him to want to see the church reformed rather than "they're opressing some people...somewhere." This is particularly bad in Three Hopes where we barely see the church at all. They kind of expect you to have played Three Houses to see the church's dirty laundry (and even Three Houses doesn't do a great job of it).

They do actually touch on that in a couple supports of Claude's. He's seen thanking the earth and the characters he talks to get confused by it, but it's never delved into any deeper so it's just ultimately glossed over. I agree that having that expanded on and making it the point of friction for Claude probably would've gone farther in making his ideals feel stronger and more tangible, which is something his story did need to feel more grounded.

Edited July 21, 2022 by Medeus

[Dark Holy Elf]

On 7/19/2022 at 9:28 PM, Seazas said:

"He'd be happier if his father were dead but could pursue his knightly dreams." Yes. Yes he would be

And this is not a likable trait to me.

And since Ashe didn't whine about not being a knight in CF/VW/SS that I can recall, this is means it is a case of him coming off worse to me in this game than he did in Houses, which is what this thread is all about. Obviously if you don't think the above trait is dislikable you won't mind, but hopefully you can at least see why someone would.

[Seazas]

On 7/21/2022 at 8:16 AM, Dark Holy Elf said:

And this is not a likable trait to me.

And since Ashe didn't whine about not being a knight in CF/VW/SS that I can recall, this is means it is a case of him coming off worse to me in this game than he did in Houses, which is what this thread is all about. Obviously if you don't think the above trait is dislikable you won't mind, but hopefully you can at least see why someone would.

I see it, just not sure if I agree as someone who really got into Ashe. Ashe did whine about Lonato and bring him up often. Whining and being soft defines him, he talks about knighthood just as much in Three Houses. To the point Felix brings it up against him when they share a task and Ashe is complaining about the work.

Quote

Ashe: Oof... There's a lot more rubble than I thought. I'm going to be sore tonight...
Felix: We just started and you're already whining. You really think you can be a knight?
Ashe: When you say it like that, I've got no choice but to give it everything I've got!

Just how he is. Especially when... he didn't directly betray Dimitri in CF/VW/SS. The Kingdom was already destroyed in Three Houses remember? Ashe never signed up to be Dimitri's knight the same way either if you already recruited Ashe.