An Alternate idea to Golden Wildfire

[Pokejedservo]

It seems that Claude's route in 3 Hopes has inevitably caused some controversy and division. Namely to some if gives Claude's schemer persona much more focus and proves his schemes can be much more than silly pranks. But to others it was more "instead of Silver Snow 2.0 it became Crimson Flower 2.0" as Claude became Ehibit A on why severely downplaying the Academy phase may not've been the best idea. (Though the fact that GW had the least exclusive characters and Almyra was still rather downplayed did not help.) So in other words I'm one of the folks who found the idea behind GW to be well-intentioned but question the execution. So I think I will come up with some ideas here... *ahem*

Initially Claude tried to set the Leicester Federation as a Neutral area in the war where refugees from other parts of Fodlan can arrive to get away from the War. In which the initial characters you can recruit are from the Empire. However not everyone in the Federation is willing to go along with Claude's plan of neutrality at first such as getting Lorenz to convince his father not to side with the Empire for starters. So in other words Claude & friends at first try to deal with opportunist Brigands and Nobles. But over time as the Kingdom is losing in the War it seems like the Leicester Federation is taking in refugees from the Kingdom and the Central Church in which this has Claude a bit conflicted. While Claude would be happy to take in Dimitri & the Blue Lions in for sure but is not sure about Rhea and the Central Church since...

A. He is not entirely fond of the Central Church as he has heard stories of how the Church of Seiroes encourages Fodlan to keep its borders closed.

B. Isn't taking the Central Church in kind of what got the Kingdom into this mess? With all due respect to Dimitri but it would be wise not to make the same mistake.

However it was Cyril who talked Claude into taking in Rhea and the Central Church. Cyril asks Claude if the Church wanted to keep the Almyrans out then why is Garreg Mach the one place in Fodlan that actually welcomes Almyrans like Claude & himself? Then Cyril reminds Claude on why Garreg Mach is a well known refuge that welcomes everyone even if they wouldn't be welcomed elsewhere in Fodlan much like the Federation. Now Claude understands Cyril's point so he assures Dimitri that he will take in the folks from the Central Church as well. Meanwhile in the Empire, while Edelgard is aware of how the Leicester Federation became a "Neutral Zone" and was willing to overlook how some folks in the Empire went there for refuge. However now that the Federation is taking in folks from the Kingdom and Central Church then Edelgard can't afford to ignore them anymore so the Empire army is now ready to attack. Back in the Federation as they receive news of the Empire coming this way, Dimitri apologizes to Claude about this but Claude remains calm. In fact Claude assures Dimitri that he has a plan here, a rather risky plan but a plan nevertheless.

Now as the Imperial Army approaches the Federation with Edelgard leading the way she gives Claude an Ultimatum. Hand over Dimitri & Rhea and their allies and they will leave but if not then the Federation will no longer be seen as Neutral. Then Claude has an announcement to make that he has had a secret that he has been hiding ever since he came to Fodlan. While he is known as Claude Von Riegan he is actually Prince Khalid of the Royal Family of Almyra. Naturally this has shocked friend and foe alike but then he gives Edelgard an Ultimatum instead. If the Empire invades the Federation then he would have no choice but to head to Almyra to speak with his father The King and give the Federation over to Almyra. So if the Empire invades the Federation then it would become an invasion to Almyra. In which Claude gleefully assures Edelgard that while the Empire has the largest army in Fodlan, the Almyran Army is even larger. While Hubert initially tells Edelgard that this is probably just a grandiose bluff from Claude. However Edelgard is not certain if this is just a bluff and if its not then the consequences could be... substantial so Edelgard does agree to leave the Federation alone... for now.

Now that Claude has outed himself as an Almyran Prince has caused a lot of division amongst the Federation. Some Nobles wonder if getting Leicester to be absorbed by Almyra was his plan all along. In which it was reminded that Claude is a half Almyran and half Fodlander as he is genuinely also from the Riegan family. Besides would you folks prefer to be absorbed by the Empire instead? Meanwhile Claude has a nice little scene with Dimitri as one of the reasons why he had no problem working with him is that he admires how Dimitri did his reforms on the Kingdom and settled matters with Duscur. So in other words Dimitri has proven himself to be willing to have good relations with foreign lands (and even joked with Dimitri that he didn't have to conquer any lands to do it unlike "you know who" in the Empire). But then Claude was willing to get into lighter topics as he playfully asks Dimitri which of the Blue Lion Ladies was he going to pick as his queen later? The sweet little miss Annette, his old childhood gal-pal Ingrid, or the lovely and voluptuous Mercedes? In which Dimitri gets a little flustered and tries to dodge the question. But then Claude figures it must be Mercedes due to the timing of Dimitri's reaction and playfully teases Dimitri for liking his ladies curvy and can understand why of course. This gets Dimitri even more flustered and tries to divert the question to Claude. In which Claude admits he is not entirely sure since there are plenty of lovely ladies in Fodlan. In which Claude jokes that he could always have a harem since he is Almyran royalty and asks Dimitri if he ever considered the idea but Dimitri refused to comment. Though in all seriousness Claude does apologize to Dimitri about not helping him sooner due to the Federation's neutrality. However Dimitri was understanding considering if he had the chance to avoid he would like to take it which is why he was so conflicted about aiding the church as well. Meanwhile at the Empire while Edelgard is still not certain whether if Claude was bluffing or not. However Thales is now scheming to regain control of Edelgard and get TWSITD involved once again, and if the Almyrans do get involved then he can bring a certain "Nemesis" back in action among other things such as the Javelins of Light.

What do you folks think? I figured this would be a way to get Almyra to maintain some agency in the plot and still have Golden Deer be seen as "Good". (Not too mention potentially fix how GW had the lowest character count.) As for Claude's brother Shahid I'm not sure whether to keep his original fate of his 2nd failed invasion attempt or keep him as a highly bitter & reluctant ally to Claude later on. But I may come up with some other alternative ideas as well so what do you folks think?

 

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Honestly, I like that idea way more than what we actually got in Three Hopes. It feels like Claude. And it absolutely takes care of the Houses issue of VW basically being a slightly different SS, and it absolutely takes care of the Hopes issue of making Claude just Edelgard 2.0 and his route just another CF.

[Use the Falchion]

I like it! I'd personally want more stuff in Almyra proper, as I felt the demo promised, but I'd gladly take this as well. 

Part of me wants to take this even farther and go into a Golden Route territory:

Shahid teams up with Thales (or rather, Thales preys upon Shahid's weakness), and starts to cause some instability within the Federation. Dimitri recognizes the tactics and Thales' own manipulations due to his dealings with Cornelia, and Rhea notes that Edelgard did ask for her help in taking Thales - then Lord Arundel - out a little over two years ago. Claude, launches a strike force attack to stop Shahid, but soon discovers that Shahid is going to kill his own father in order to take the throne by force. Claude and Co stealthily sprint to the Almyran capital and take down Shahid while Dimitri and Rhea defend the Federation from any outside attack. Claude's defense is successful, and Shahid is taken capture and/or publicly exiled in response. (Claude is able to recruit another family member during this time as a Wyvern Rider as well.) However, this was all a diversion by the Agarthans, who needed Claude's watchful eye away from his own territory so they could take the time to gather their forces. (If Kronya was to be recruited, I'd have Thales kill Cornelia at this point. Kronya sees the writing on the wall, and flees, only to run into Claude and Co on their way back, where she begs for her life.)

Edelgard, who has been on the Agarthan trail for months now, proposes a peace conference between the four sides, and all share what they know and/or willing to share. At the end of the day, they all leave, but not before coming to a secret agreement - Edelgard and a small strike force will be allowed passage to help take out TWSITD. Claude agrees to this...and proceeds to launch a strike on Edelgard's party, "kidnapping" her, Caspar, Monica, and Hubert and holding them for ransom while Count Bergliez takes control of the military front. From there, the three Lords (+two Avatars and Rhea) all head to take out the Agarthan base. On the way, they pass by Shez's home, which is right on the edge of Agarthan territory. We get some story and lore stuff there, and then head into the belly of the beast. 

[Mark the Tactician]

3 hours ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

Honestly, I like that idea way more than what we actually got in Three Hopes. It feels like Claude. And it absolutely takes care of the Houses issue of VW basically being a slightly different SS, and it absolutely takes care of the Hopes issue of making Claude just Edelgard 2.0 and his route just another CF.

You know, I honestly think that this is a major weakness in the setting of Three Houses/Three Hopes. In the grand scheme of things, it just feels too much like Claude and the Leicester Alliance/Federation is just a third wheel in Fodlan, while the Empire and Kingdom have the real meat of the plot of both games, and unfortunately neither game has really done a good job of dissuading me of that mindset.

[Aedan7479]

9 hours ago, Mark the Tactician said:

You know, I honestly think that this is a major weakness in the setting of Three Houses/Three Hopes. In the grand scheme of things, it just feels too much like Claude and the Leicester Alliance/Federation is just a third wheel in Fodlan, while the Empire and Kingdom have the real meat of the plot of both games, and unfortunately neither game has really done a good job of dissuading me of that mindset.

I think it doesn't help that TWSITD have the least do with Leicester; the empire had the Insurrection of the Six, and the Kingdom had the Tragedy of Duscur, the most the Alliance had was the experiments in Ophelia territory, which didn't have nearly as much impact, nor was Claude affected. That being said, I think it fits that Claude is an outside player; giving him personal stakes doesn't fit the type of character he is.

I'm in the camp that really liked Golden Wildfire, I get that some people wanted Almyra to have a bigger role, but I think it's satisfactory, especially with Claude's paralogue; the tricky thing with Almyra is that it doesn't directly tie in to the empire or TWSITD. I do think Nader needed a more vocal role though, he's with us for a good deal of part 2, but doesn't say much.

I like this idea, but I think Rhea is opposed to the mixing of cultures (rather than people), lest people be turned away from the church, granted, the game doesn't explicitly say that. Also, not sure about the shipping tease, I actually prefer Dimitri with Marianne, though it occurred to me that if Claude married Hilda, Marianne and Lysithia, the only great house left would be Gloucester (*Lorenz sweats*).

[Seazas]

Nah. Cyril is not nearly as influential enough for that and Claude has the same outcome in Houses even if you don't recruit Cyril or let him die. Rhea already stepped down from power in VW and dies offscreen with Byleth being installed into that position beforehand. Claude had an easy way to pacify the Church and form it in the image he desires most. Of course that wouldn't happen in Golden Wildfire in any capacity. Claude has zero reason to work with the Church in this timeline.

[Pokejedservo]

On 7/21/2022 at 7:14 PM, Use the Falchion said:

I like it! I'd personally want more stuff in Almyra proper, as I felt the demo promised, but I'd gladly take this as well. 

Part of me wants to take this even farther and go into a Golden Route territory:

Shahid teams up with Thales (or rather, Thales preys upon Shahid's weakness), and starts to cause some instability within the Federation. Dimitri recognizes the tactics and Thales' own manipulations due to his dealings with Cornelia, and Rhea notes that Edelgard did ask for her help in taking Thales - then Lord Arundel - out a little over two years ago. Claude, launches a strike force attack to stop Shahid, but soon discovers that Shahid is going to kill his own father in order to take the throne by force. Claude and Co stealthily sprint to the Almyran capital and take down Shahid while Dimitri and Rhea defend the Federation from any outside attack. Claude's defense is successful, and Shahid is taken capture and/or publicly exiled in response. (Claude is able to recruit another family member during this time as a Wyvern Rider as well.) However, this was all a diversion by the Agarthans, who needed Claude's watchful eye away from his own territory so they could take the time to gather their forces. (If Kronya was to be recruited, I'd have Thales kill Cornelia at this point. Kronya sees the writing on the wall, and flees, only to run into Claude and Co on their way back, where she begs for her life.)

Edelgard, who has been on the Agarthan trail for months now, proposes a peace conference between the four sides, and all share what they know and/or willing to share. At the end of the day, they all leave, but not before coming to a secret agreement - Edelgard and a small strike force will be allowed passage to help take out TWSITD. Claude agrees to this...and proceeds to launch a strike on Edelgard's party, "kidnapping" her, Caspar, Monica, and Hubert and holding them for ransom while Count Bergliez takes control of the military front. From there, the three Lords (+two Avatars and Rhea) all head to take out the Agarthan base. On the way, they pass by Shez's home, which is right on the edge of Agarthan territory. We get some story and lore stuff there, and then head into the belly of the beast. 

Oh I like this, nice addition here.

16 hours ago, Aedan7479 said:

Also, not sure about the shipping tease, I actually prefer Dimitri with Marianne, though it occurred to me that if Claude married Hilda, Marianne and Lysithia, the only great house left would be Gloucester (*Lorenz sweats*).

Oh don't get me wrong I get that since Marianne is so well known for being so shippable. (Though I'm more partial to pairing Marianne with folks like Linhardt, Ignatz & Raphael.) But I do think it would make more thematic sense for Claude to tease Dimitri about the ladies on his side if he was going to do that. (Since obviously Edelgard was clearly out of the question for obvious reasons.) 

2 hours ago, Seazas said:

Nah. Cyril is not nearly as influential enough for that and Claude has the same outcome in Houses even if you don't recruit Cyril or let him die.

I dunno about that, as Cyril was the one who convinced Claude that the Church is not what he thinks in their Support Chain particularly in their B Support at...

https://fedatamine.com/en-us/supports/Claude/Cyril/B

[Seazas]

3 hours ago, Pokejedservo said:

Oh I like this, nice addition here.

Oh don't get me wrong I get that since Marianne is so well known for being so shippable. (Though I'm more partial to pairing Marianne with folks like Linhardt, Ignatz & Raphael.) But I do think it would make more thematic sense for Claude to tease Dimitri about the ladies on his side if he was going to do that. (Since obviously Edelgard was clearly out of the question for obvious reasons.) 

I dunno about that, as Cyril was the one who convinced Claude that the Church is not what he thinks in their Support Chain particularly in their B Support at...

https://fedatamine.com/en-us/supports/Claude/Cyril/B

And that support is completely optional. Claude acts the exact same without Cyril. It doesn't matter at all because that's not what Claude is after, he wants the current Church changed and Rhea out of power. He's frustrated with her and reacts positively over a world without her even if you trigger Cyril's support.

[Jotari]

On 7/22/2022 at 5:40 PM, Aedan7479 said:

I think it doesn't help that TWSITD have the least do with Leicester; the empire had the Insurrection of the Six, and the Kingdom had the Tragedy of Duscur, the most the Alliance had was the experiments in Ophelia territory, which didn't have nearly as much impact, nor was Claude affected. That being said, I think it fits that Claude is an outside player; giving him personal stakes doesn't fit the type of character he is.

I'm in the camp that really liked Golden Wildfire, I get that some people wanted Almyra to have a bigger role, but I think it's satisfactory, especially with Claude's paralogue; the tricky thing with Almyra is that it doesn't directly tie in to the empire or TWSITD. I do think Nader needed a more vocal role though, he's with us for a good deal of part 2, but doesn't say much.

I like this idea, but I think Rhea is opposed to the mixing of cultures (rather than people), lest people be turned away from the church, granted, the game doesn't explicitly say that. Also, not sure about the shipping tease, I actually prefer Dimitri with Marianne, though it occurred to me that if Claude married Hilda, Marianne and Lysithia, the only great house left would be Gloucester (*Lorenz sweats*).

Well it's likely that the Agarthans were behind the death of Claude's uncle and some other key people in leading houses. Which suggests that the Agarthans pulled the same stuff they did in the Kingdom only it came off less "messy". So that's something that could have been explored more.

While were complaint about Golden Wildfire, what the he'll were the Agarthans even after in that route when they just started pillaging Ordelia. While Edelgard had divorced herself from the Agarthans in Three Hopes, she was still doing exactly what they wanted, namely getting rid of Rhea. So why did they just start randomly attacking people, forcing Claude to return the Leicester just when he was about to win the war for them?

Edited July 23, 2022 by Jotari

[Pokejedservo]

On 7/23/2022 at 1:07 AM, Seazas said:

And that support is completely optional. Claude acts the exact same without Cyril.

Yeah, so? That doesn't make it completely invalid especially for an alternate continuity like 3 Hopes. But to be fair this is but a mild case of "Gameplay & Story Segregation" regarding the Supports in the Fire Emblem games. (There has been criticism about how in certain FE games certain characters almost seem like completely different people during the main stories and the supports such as Xander from FE Fates for example.)

Oh yes and not too long ago | did this little "deleted scene" interaction with Claude & Edelgard. (Though I admit I'm not sure if this would fit Golden Wildfire or Scarlet Blaze more). But this is more of a "satirical" take so don't take this too seriously so anyways...

Claude: So Edelgard, whats the plan here? Getting rid of Lady Rhea, destroy her once and for all?

Edelgard: What? Claude are you insane?! No of course not that would be going way too far here. If this is your idea of a joke then its not funny.

Claude: Wait... what? So... you don't want to get rid of Lady Rhea?

Edelgard: Not at all, my only plan is to capture Lady Rhea and have her imprisoned. Honestly what makes you think I would do something so barbaric here?

Claude: But... isn't the Church why Fodlan is so messed up? Namely isn't the Church of Seiroes why Fodlan is so Xenophobic as they obsess over their borders?

Edelgard: The Church is Xenophobic? Well that is hardly true, Claude have you completely forgotten your time at the Academy? Garreg Mach is one of the few places in Fodlan that is willing to welcome foreigners like you. If anything its the Fodlan Nobility that are such Xenophobes.

Claude: Well okay I admit that... is true, now that you mention it. So, wait... the Central Church doesn't have absolute power over Fodlan and overexert its power?

Edelgard: Alright I admit I used to wonder that as well at first but it turns out that if anything the Church doesn't use its power enough. Though granted to be fair it can be rather difficult to work with Fodlan Nobility as I'm sure you know as well as I do.

Claude: Well yeah that is definitely true.

Edelgard: Still Claude I have no idea where you get such absurd ideas. I mean I know your a Foreigner Claude but you should do more research on Fodlan's ways before you became a prominent leader.

Claude (shaking his head): Eh heh heh oh wow, this is such a migraine, oh I'm so needing a stiff drink.

Edelgard: Claude are you okay? Why do you seem so confused?

Claude (eyes twitching): Really Edelgard, really? *laughs* Your defending the very place you are trying to wage war on. So yeah I'm a little bit puzzled here.

Edelgard: Claude, listen, my attack on the Central Church is strictly just a means to an end here. If I take down the Church then the Kingdom of Faerghus would be de-legitimized. I admit I do feel a little bad in attacking the Central Church since they were rather helpful in taking down my evil uncle. But since the Church does have a strong history with the Kingdom I doubt they would've helped me take over the Kingdom. So in other words this is more of an "unfortunate necessity" for the lack of a better term.

Claude: I see... so let me get this straight, if you take over the Church then this wouldn't end the war?

Edelgard (laughs): Oh of course not Claude, don't be silly. If anything its Dimitri's fault that things are going like this. I mean this could've gone a lot easier if he would just surrender the Kingdom to me but no he wants to cling to it despite how its been nothing but trouble to him. *sigh* Sometimes that man can be so stubborn.

Claude: I see...

Edelgard: Besides its clear that I do not wish to abolish the Churches in Fodlan why I even re-opened the Southern Church as well. *under her breath* Though unfortunately I had to promote that arrogant dastard Count Varley but hopefully that problem will be dealt with. *ahem* Anyways this war is to unite all of Fodlan into one. After all I have plans to reform Fodlan for the better and I can't fully do that if I can only control a part of Fodlan now can I?

Claude: So isn't this basically just imperial conquest?

Edelgard: Not... quite, you see a conqueror would take over & enslave land that was never theirs to begin with. You see Claude, once upon a time the Empire ruled all of Fodlan. But thanks to the Battle of Eagle & Lion, the Kingdom of Faerghus gained its independence and as you know some time later the Leicester Alliance gained its independence as well. So if anything I'm trying to get the Empire to reclaim the land that it once had so I figured this would be a way to restore order in Fodlan here.

Claude: I see... you keep talking about the Kingdom but what about the Leicester Federation?

Edelgard: Oh... right, well Claude I admit I was going to wait until later to ask this but I figure I might as well do it now. Claude, would you be a dear and surrender all of the Leicester territories to me immediately please? Since you've been so helpful I can take Leicester off your hands and you can be on your way back home to Almyra. So what do you say?

Claude: Oh... wow... eh Edelgard, I... I dunno, I mean... one of my goals was to improve relations between Fodlan & Almyra.

Edelgard: Not to worry Claude, that can still happen. In fact tell you what, once I reclaim all of the Empire's land and lead a unified Fodlan I will have a chat with you in Almyra and we can go from there, okay?

Claude: Okay... So... can I at least say good-bye to my friends before I go?

Edelgard: Okay I suppose that is fair... but not too worry Claude, your now former territories would be safe under my hands. So farewell for now Claude, buh-bye now.

Claude: Yeah... buh-bye.

END

[Seazas]

3 hours ago, Pokejedservo said:

Yeah, so? That doesn't make it completely invalid especially for an alternate continuity like 3 Hopes. But to be fair this is but a mild case of "Gameplay & Story Segregation" regarding the Supports in the Fire Emblem games. (There has been criticism about how in certain FE games certain characters almost seem like completely different people during the main stories and the supports such as Xander from FE Fates for example.)

But it literally does though as Cyril changes nothing for Claude. In VW Claude still alters Fodlan and the Church, is very negative and disliking toward the Church because he has his reasons to, and wanted Rhea out of power. He just doesn't have to be active in standing against the Church since Byleth successfully pacifies them as the new pope and Rhea gets out of power peacefully. Claude wouldn't randomly work with the Church just because of Cyril's words, he wants Fodlan changed and Rhea to be the one not in power.

[Pokejedservo]

Well in an effort to not have this go in circles I will just simply say agree to disagree. (But then again I often argue "if its not canon then why bother making it then"?) Besides my initial idea was to help give Cyril a bit more relevance again. Also while yes in 3 Houses Claude wasn't a big fan of the Church but wasn't his anger to Rhea more due to how secretive she was regarding Byleth's origins?