Which characters were popular but aren‘t anymore?

[GronderWarrior]

Since Three Houses is out now for 3 years and Three Hopes is now out for over a month, which characters were liked at first but now they get way more hate? For me it‘s Dorothea(she is already the least liked BE female), Lysithea and i guess Hilda.

[ZanaLyrander]

Are we talking about characters in terms of their personality, or in terms of their value as units? I suppose either way, I still enjoy all of those characters in Three Hopes. I will admit that Dorothea is significantly weaker in Three Hopes than she was in Three Houses, but she's still quite effective. Lysithea is similarly a little weaker, but still quite strong. And Hilda is stronger than ever, she's a wrecking ball.

In terms of personality, only one that jumps to mind is Raphael. I feel like he's lost some depth in Three Hopes.

In terms of usefulness as units... Hapi perhaps? Maybe Mercedes, if only because healers aren't as necessary anymore? Honestly, I feel like Three Hopes has largely been an improvement for most characters imo.

Edited August 9, 2022 by ZanaLyrander

[Fabulously Olivier]

I wouldn't say the game has caused hatred of any popular characters, per say. Perhaps Monica in comparison to how excited people were when she was shown in the trailer. Maybe Ashe's reputation took a hit since his knightly ideals are betrayed by him changing sides so easily?

[ZanaLyrander]

Just now, Fabulously Olivier said:

I wouldn't say the game has caused hatred of any popular characters, per say. Perhaps Monica in comparison to how excited people were when she was shown in the trailer. Maybe Ashe's reputation took a hit since his knightly ideals are betrayed by him changing sides so easily?

Ashe only looks bad by comparison to the other Blue Lions. Every other house has plenty of people who are willing to swap sides, the Blue Lions are just the stubborn ones, and thus Ashe is being unfairly held to a different standard than the other houses.

[GronderWarrior]

1 minute ago, ZanaLyrander said:

Are we talking about characters in terms of their personality, or in terms of their value as units? I suppose either way, I still enjoy all of those characters in Three Hopes. I will admit that Dorothea is significantly weaker in Three Hopes than she was in Three Houses, but she's still quite effective. Lysithea is similarly a little weaker, but still quite strong. And Hilda is stronger than ever, she's a wrecking ball.

In terms of personality, only one that jumps to mind is Raphael. I feel like he's lost some depth in Three Hopes.

In terms of usefulness as units... Hapi perhaps? Maybe Mercedes, if only because healers aren't as necessary anymore? Honestly, I feel like Three Hopes has largely been an improvement for most characters imo.

Actually i‘m more disappointed in Lysithea than Dorothea since Dorothea was already the worst unit in Three Houses. So it shouldn‘t be surprising that she is the worst unit in Three Hopes too. But what makes her weaker? Tbh, i rather make her a Mortal Savant with Ridill. Works quite well with her personal. Lysithea is…lacking something as a Gremory. Nothing compared to Three Houses. Hilda was always one of the strongest and will always be

[ZanaLyrander]

Referring to Three Houses Dorothea as weak kinda baffles me given her insanely strong spell list in Three Houses. In Three Hopes, she still has an insanely strong spell list, but with the ability to teach spells to other characters via the adjutant system, that becomes less impressive, and meanwhile her ability list is fairly lackluster. Still, it doesn't stop her from being a very strong unit, strong spells are really all she needs to be incredibly powerful, and she makes for a powerful Mortal Savant, Dancer, or Trickster as well if you give her a good Witstrike weapon as you suggest.

[Etrurian emperor]

8 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Maybe Ashe's reputation took a hit since his knightly ideals are betrayed by him changing sides so easily?

I'd argue its a bit weird that people now have a problem with it. In the original timeline Ashe defected too. In two routes Ashe defects to the Empire, three if you count his optional recruitment in Crimson Flower. 

 

[ZanaLyrander]

Just now, Etrurian emperor said:

I'd argue its a bit weird that people now have a problem with it. In the original timeline Ashe defected too. In two routes Ashe defects to the Empire, three if you count his optional recruitment in Crimson Flower. 

 

Agreed. Of the Blue Lions, he's not the strange one. It's not weird that he defects, it's weird that almost no one else does.

[Fabulously Olivier]

4 minutes ago, ZanaLyrander said:

Ashe only looks bad by comparison to the other Blue Lions. Every other house has plenty of people who are willing to swap sides, the Blue Lions are just the stubborn ones, and thus Ashe is being unfairly held to a different standard than the other houses.

Bearing in mind that he also has the distinction of being a knight personally appointed by Dimitri. Most other characters have good reason to swap. Mercedes has dual citizenship and family in the Empire. Petra is a political prisoner. Dorothea is a commoner and has always been notably self-serving. Bernadetta is driven by fear and trauma consistent with who she was made to become. The Alliance as a whole allies with whichever side your playing. And well, Linhardt has no motivation, but that's just who he's always been. He has no motivation for anything, ever.

 

It didn't really have to be that way though. Lonato gave Ashe plenty of reason to switch sides, and all they had to do was play that up a bit.

[Dark Holy Elf]

23 minutes ago, GronderWarrior said:

Since Three Houses is out now for 3 years and Three Hopes is now out for over a month, which characters were liked at first but now they get way more hate? For me it‘s Dorothea(she is already the least liked BE female), Lysithea and i guess Hilda.

I think you're conflating popularity with how much you personally like them? These are three of the most popular characters (certainly not threatening to be the "least liked" anything), all are in the upper half of popularity in their own house by most popularity polls. And I don't think Hopes has done anything to particularly change this.

9 minutes ago, GronderWarrior said:

Actually i‘m more disappointed in Lysithea than Dorothea since Dorothea was already the worst unit in Three Houses.

lmao

 

Anyway I really don't think Hopes is gonna change many characters for popularity dramatically. I've definitely seen some Dimitri fans who aren't happy with his portrayal in this game (and from what I've seen so far I agree). Ashe I agree with from a personal standpoint though I'm not sure how people who really like Ashe feel, mostly because despite the character doing decently on popularity polls I feel like I've only rarely talked to people who are big fans.

 

[ZanaLyrander]

Personally, I vastly prefer Three Hopes Dimitri over Three Houses Dimitri. Don't get me wrong, the focus on Dimitri's personal struggles and his gradual recovery and redemption were very well done in Three Houses. But when I hear people pining for the feral Three Houses part 2 Dimitri I can't help but shake my head and question if we played the same game. For like half of part 2 of Three Houses, Dimitri was, quite frankly, an insufferable asshole. I know that was the point, that he's in a terrible place mentally and emotionally and he's lashing out, but while I felt for the guy, I also couldn't stand him, he was just an unrepentant asshole to all of his friends, and he just became hard to sympathize with.

Meanwhile, Three Hopes Dimitri still suffers from the same issues, but he has an actual support system, he doesn't spend five years alone stewing in his own guilt and self-hatred, and thus he's in a much better place. And while his mental health issues aren't as much of a focus of the story, it allows the story the freedom to focus on Dimitri as a king, as a leader. And that's fascinating to see, especially compared to the rabid beast we were presented with in Three Houses. I may be in the minority, but I will die on this hill, Three Hopes Dimitri > Three Houses Dimitri.

Edited August 9, 2022 by ZanaLyrander

[Fabulously Olivier]

3 minutes ago, ZanaLyrander said:

Personally, I vastly prefer Three Hopes Dimitri over Three Houses Dimitri. Don't get me wrong, the focus on Dimitri's personal struggles and his gradual recovery and redemption were very well done in Three Houses. But when I hear people pining for the feral Three Houses part 2 Dimitri I can't help but shake my head and question if we played the same game. For like half of part 2 of Three Houses, Dimitri was, quite frankly, an insufferable asshole. I know that was the point, that he's in a terrible place mentally and emotionally and he's lashing out, but while I felt for the guy, I also couldn't stand him, he was just an unrepentant asshole to all of his friends, and he just became hard to sympathize with.

Meanwhile, Three Hopes Dimitri still suffers from the same issues, but he has an actual support system, he doesn't spend five years alone stewing in his own guilt and self-hatred, and thus he's in a much better place. And while his mental health issues aren't as much of a focus of the story, it allows the story the freedom to focus on Dimitri as a king, as a leader. And that's fascinating to see, especially compared to the rabid beast we were presented with in Three Houses. I may be in the minority, but I will die on this hill, Three Hopes Dimitri > Three Houses Dimitri.

Fair enough. But then one's opinion of Dimitri is going to depend on their opinions of him as a leader. And personally, I view him as the wrong leader for Fodlan. A man whose alleged ideals are held back for fear of rocking the boat, all because his nation has been repeatedly destabilized by the very types of people Edelgard and Claude want to get rid of.

[Dark Holy Elf]

2 minutes ago, ZanaLyrander said:

Personally, I vastly prefer Three Hopes Dimitri over Three Houses Dimitri. Don't get me wrong, the focus on Dimitri's personal struggles and his gradual recovery and redemption were very well done in Three Houses. But when I hear people pining for the feral Three Houses part 2 Dimitri I can't help but shake my head and question if we played the same game. For like half of part 2 of Three Houses, Dimitri was, quite frankly, an insufferable asshole. I know that was the point, that he's in a terrible place mentally and emotionally and he's lashing out, but while I felt for the guy, I also couldn't stand him, he was just an unrepentant asshole to all of his friends, and he just became hard to sympathize with.

Meanwhile, Three Hopes Dimitri still suffers from the same issues, but he has an actual support system, he doesn't spend five years alone stewing in his own guilt and self-hatred, and thus he's in a much better place. And while his mental health issues aren't as much of a focus of the story, it allows the story the freedom to focus on Dimitri as a king, as a leader. And that's fascinating to see, especially compared to the rabid beast we were presented with in Three Houses. I may be in the minority, but I will die on this hill, Three Hopes Dimitri > Three Houses Dimitri.

Oh, Three Houses Dimitri at his lowest is not a nice person. But... I enjoyed his character arc of getting past that, of becoming the man who would actually try for a parley and would extend his hand to his enemy instead of being consumed with revenge. A man who learns to live for the present and not the past.

I feel like Three Hopes Dimitri has instead had his revenge tendencies internalized and legitimized and I kinda think he's still a bad person, but now with no hope of recovery? The way he just repeatedly chooses violence over and over to deal with all the lords/etc. who are opposing him makes me uncomfortable. Yes, he has a support system, but that support system is just enabling this, compared to how they were all trying to pull him back from the brink Houses. And as someone who likes the character, this line being in an A support makes me want to scream: "My life is not my own. It belongs to my kingdom, my people, and the dead." It suggests he's not going to get better.

Disclaimer that I'm only at Chapter 11 on this route.

[ZanaLyrander]

4 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

Fair enough. But then one's opinion of Dimitri is going to depend on their opinions of him as a leader. And personally, I view him as the wrong leader for Fodlan. A man whose alleged ideals are held back for fear of rocking the boat, all because his nation has been repeatedly destabilized by the very types of people Edelgard and Claude want to get rid of.

Dimitri is an optimist. He wants the same things as Edelgard and Claude, but Dimitri has no concept of 'acceptable losses'. If even one innocent person suffers from a plan, in Dimitri's mind, it's a bad plan. I personally think you're correct, that Edelgard, and especially Claude, are better suited to leading Fodlan to a better place. But I do believe Dimitri could do so, it'd just take much longer. The sort of gradual change Dimitri wants is possible. Difficult, but possible. It could certainly be argued that ripping off the band-aid is better in this scenario, and I personally agree. But I respect Dimitri for his idealism all the same. Someone has to be pushing for the best case scenario, someone has to be trying to find a solution where everyone wins, where no one has to suffer, where the rising tide raises all ships. Such a scenario may not be possible or realistic, but if no one is even searching for it, we'll never know.

4 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

Oh, Three Houses Dimitri at his lowest is not a nice person. But... I enjoyed his character arc of getting past that, of becoming the man who would actually try for a parley and would extend his hand to his enemy instead of being consumed with revenge. A man who learns to live for the present and not the past.

I feel like Three Hopes Dimitri has instead had his revenge tendencies internalized and legitimized and I kinda think he's still a bad person, but now with no hope of recovery? The way he just repeatedly chooses violence over and over to deal with all the lords/etc. who are opposing him makes me uncomfortable. Yes, he has a support system, but that support system is just enabling this, compared to how they were all trying to pull him back from the brink Houses. And as someone who likes the character, this line being in an A support makes me want to scream: "My life is not my own. It belongs to my kingdom, my people, and the dead." It suggests he's not going to get better.

Disclaimer that I'm only at Chapter 11 on this route.

I was fairly satisfied with how Dimitri turned out by the end of Azure Gleam. I will say no more for the sake of avoiding spoilers, but by the end of the story, I was satisfied with his character arc. As for him dealing with lords who are opposing him with violence... what is his alternative? His country is being invaded, and he's having to contend with traitors within his own country. In better circumstances, perhaps he could deal with their grievances peacefully, but when they express their dissatisfaction by joining forces with an invading force, we're kinda past that point.

[Sire]

I guess the distinction here comes from a gameplay or story/character perspective.

Character-wise, I'll say Lysithea seems to get the short stick as I loved her in Three Houses. Alternatively, I've just become more aware of her character, but in Three Hopes they really drive home the bit about "not being treated as a child." I get it's one of her character traits, but they seem to focus on it a lot in Three Hopes.
-- Alois also got screwed in my opinion, as he got reduced to a pun-making machine. I loved Alois and it's a shame he's not playable and that the game doesn't explore his other qualities.
-- Claude definitely has been going the rounds online since Three Hopes brings out the schemer side more versus the power of friendship/memes in Three Houses. Personally, I don't mind as I love seeing this version of Claude, but others may not see that way.

As for who got better, I'll say Jeralt as he got more screen time and actually has some supports/paralogues to further flesh out his character.
-- I'll say Ferdinand was already great in Three Houses, but his story arc in Three Hopes is also pretty amazing. Perhaps I'm just biased, but seeing more of Ferdinand is great. It's just a shame future Ferdie won't sound the same due to the passing of his English VA...
-- Sylvain shows a more responsible side to him in Three Hopes compared to his skirt-chasing tendencies in Three Houses, but I dare say this is mostly due to the circumstances. The inclusion of his father helps with this as well.
-- On a personal note, Lorenz went from being "Lorenz" to one of my more favored characters in Three Hopes. Seeing how he was raised and his values was extremely interesting, and Lorenz's dad is also pretty great. When I hear Count Gloucester speak, I'm reminded of Arthas' father from Warcraft.

* * * * *

Regarding Ashe, I've always regarded him as the "good boi" of the Blue Lions. He's a precious little man, although I dare say him being "average" also makes him a bit more forgettable. As for Three Hopes, I get the feeling Ashe took Felix's betrayal arc from Three Houses (if Felix is recruited elsewhere) and made it is own, but puts on a depressive spin on it instead of "becoming like the boar."
-- It doesn't help that Ashe also seems outclassed gameplay-wise, making one less likely to use him as well.

[Fabulously Olivier]

One character I would be curious about the reception to is Yuri. Three Houses Yuri really was everything to everyone. You got the impression that not only was he low-key the smartest player in Fodlan (Claude+), but his backstory was impossibly rich. Three Hopes really dials that down and focuses on the bare essentials. Maybe that's better for him, but it does make him blend in, and his poor availability doesn't help.

[Dark Holy Elf]

1 hour ago, ZanaLyrander said:

His country is being invaded, and he's having to contend with traitors within his own country. In better circumstances, perhaps he could deal with their grievances peacefully, but when they express their dissatisfaction by joining forces with an invading force, we're kinda past that point.

When close to half of your vassals are rising up against you in rebellion, you've messed up as a ruler (I'd say this even for more sympathetic rulers like Elincia in RD) and this would suggest some self-reflection is in order. Instead he's doubled down on "everyone who opposed my father and now me is a traitor who deserves death" and I can't say I enjoy watching that. It was particularly striking with Lonato, who we know is a decent person and whose death was used to build up Rhea's bad side in Houses (which begs the question of whose bad side his death is building up now?). But there has been many more since to show that it's a (very ugly) pattern. It's the boar, but legitimized by the state.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Dark Holy Elf

[Fabulously Olivier]

3 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

When close to half of your vassals are rising up against you in rebellion, you've messed up as a ruler (I'd say this even for more sympathetic rulers like Elincia in RD) and this would suggest some self-reflection is in order. Instead he's doubled down on "everyone who opposed my father and now me is a traitor who deserves death" and I can't say I enjoy watching that. It was particularly striking with Lonato, who we know is a decent person and whose death was used to build up Rhea's bad side in Houses (which begs the question of whose bad side his death is building up now?). But there has been many more since to show that it's a (very ugly) pattern. It's the boar, but legitimized by the state.

In fairness, the guy had just two years of rule, and half of the kingdom was already being secretly run by mole nazis.

[ZanaLyrander]

8 minutes ago, Dark Holy Elf said:

When close to half of your vassals are rising up against you in rebellion, you've messed up as a ruler (I'd say this even for more sympathetic rulers like Elincia in RD) and this would suggest some self-reflection is in order. Instead he's doubled down on "everyone who opposed my father and now me is a traitor who deserves death" and I can't say I enjoy watching that. It was particularly striking with Lonato, who we know is a decent person and whose death was used to build up Rhea's bad side in Houses (which begs the question of whose bad side his death is building up now?). But there has been many more since to show that it's a (very ugly) pattern. It's the boar, but legitimized by the state.

I mean, there is a literal conspiracy lead by those who slither in the dark turning most of his vassal against him, most of whom were already against him from the start purely because of who his father was. Blaming Dimitri for that hardly feels fair. And Lonato, while a good man, is blinded by revenge for the death of his son. Dimitri had good reason to believe that refusing to aid the church would lead to massive rebellion and instability within the kingdom. So he either earns Lonato's anger, or half the kingdom's anger, there was no way to satisfy both.

[Archeleon]

All I can say is that Three Hopes made me dislike Ignatz even more. Something about this guy that is just obnoxious to me.

[Fabulously Olivier]

31 minutes ago, Archeleon said:

All I can say is that Three Hopes made me dislike Ignatz even more. Something about this guy that is just obnoxious to me.

I think he's intended to be relatable to the audience that plays video games (without being glorified/overly complementary like a Kirito), and people may or may not like what they see of themselves in him.

[Dark Holy Elf]

2 hours ago, ZanaLyrander said:

I mean, there is a literal conspiracy lead by those who slither in the dark turning most of his vassal against him, most of whom were already against him from the start purely because of who his father was. Blaming Dimitri for that hardly feels fair.

It's not about blame, it's about how much I enjoy the character and his writing. "Everyone who opposed him is manipulated. How were they manipulated? Who cares. Are we sympathetic enough to try to make them see they're being manipulated? No, easier to just kill them."

The slitherers manipulated the imperial nobility as well. What happens on SB? Edelgard gets to recruit some of them back to her cause, coup their leader and place him under house arrest, and the game gives the eventual conflict the dramtic nuance it deserves. I loved Ferdinand's arc with his father; I hated Ashe's. It's night and day for which one I enjoyed more.

[Archeleon]

They did Ferdinand so good in Hopes.

[Florete]

Uh...no one. No one who was really liked before is suddenly getting hate. If you believe otherwise, you're probably listening to a minority somewhere and/or you've found yourself in an echo chamber.

...Considering what OP's only two posts are, though, I'm left questioning the true intentions behind this whole thing.

[Medeus]

I'll third the notion that I don't think any of the characters are going to lose popularity for their roles in Three Hopes. Even the characters with the most notable discord increase over their roles in the games I don't think it's going to be enough to a point that it moves the needle enough to consider them more hated than before. The only characters I could see a notable change in either direction are those who were given faces and proper roles in the game like the real Monica, Holst, or the parents, and that's only because them being relatively unknown characters in Three Houses meant that they're more at risk to not meeting the expectations of the fanbase after all of the speculation they've had over the past three years. 

Edited August 10, 2022 by Medeus