Wave 4 is now out! (info dump after completing it)

[Acacia Sgt]

2 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

 

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I would have liked them to have not pulled some of their punches, and had instead doubled down on the "assassin Nel" implication and the overall bleak vibe.

Spoiler

Wait, are you saying it wasn't bleak enough!?

 

[DefyingFates]

11 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

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Wait, are you saying it wasn't bleak enough!?

 

Oh no, I loved the atmosphere! It really made the story feel special!

Spoiler

I just think they could have committed to it a little more.

...that probably makes me sound really sadistic, huh?

Edit: Just redid the Sombron fight and the music that plays over the montage is different now

Spoiler

(there's an added section for the DLC cast complete with a remix of their theme). It's not even slapped on the end either; it's actually inserted between the Solm and the "Others" (i.e. Jean, Anna and everyone from Lindon onwards)

. That's such a cool touch!

Edited April 9, 2023 by DefyingFates

[Nukemind]

13 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

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Wait, are you saying it wasn't bleak enough!?

 

I’d argue no. The ending 

Spoiler

Felt like a soap opera, and then everything was wrapped up neatly with resurrection magic or whatever. Seriously if everyone can come back to life this many times what are we even doing? Let’s just wait 1,000 years for Lumera to pop back up or even just raise her as a “good” corrupted. The ending of “I’m bad, I’m good, I’m bad, I’m good, I was mind controlled, I’m not your brother just identical, I will die for you not my brother!” It just felt so soap opera ish.

 

[Acacia Sgt]

8 hours ago, DefyingFates said:

Oh no, I loved the atmosphere! It really made the story feel special!

Well, pardon then if I don't share the enthusiasm.

28 minutes ago, Nukemind said:

I’d argue no. The ending 

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Felt like a soap opera, and then everything was wrapped up neatly with resurrection magic or whatever. Seriously if everyone can come back to life this many times what are we even doing? Let’s just wait 1,000 years for Lumera to pop back up or even just raise her as a “good” corrupted. The ending of “I’m bad, I’m good, I’m bad, I’m good, I was mind controlled, I’m not your brother just identical, I will die for you not my brother!” It just felt so soap opera ish.

 

Spoiler

To be fair, what Rafal did to Nel is the exact thing Lumera did with Alear. Heck, it's Alear themselves suggesting him to do it. So at least there's consistency. At least how I see it, the only thing that feels forced is that Alear only needed to be a few minutes/hours back home for the whole "waiting time for Nel to wake up" to pass by, since there was no apparent indication before that that both Elyos were not in sync time-wise.

In any case, to me it was already too overblown bleak, even with the whole "soap opera" elements.

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Acacia Sgt

[Aedan7479]

the twist that EVERYONE except for the playable characters are dead or corrupted, the bleak narration at the beginning of each chapter; personally, it felt overdone to a point that I couldn't take it seriously. I did however like the Nil/Nel/Rafal flashbacks at the end of each chapter, it shows how much of a monster Sonbron was to his children, which was something I wanted from the main game, in fact, I wonder if Veyle should've been more like Rafel, because I think Rafel was better with the 'Villianous sibling desperate for parental love' shtick.

Also, quick question regarding Nel:

aren't she and Alear siblings? I heard someone say that the Fell Xenologue Alear was actually Lumera's child, but I didn't see that mentioned anywhere in game. I know Nel doesn't know that Alear is a fell dragon, but it's still a bit uncomfortable.

And one thing I wonder:

do you think IS intended to give Alear and Veyle their Dragon forms? Nel and Rafal have four Dragonstones which is even explain storywise in their supports, so I wonder if it was intended at one point.

[DefyingFates]

2 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Spoiler

since there was no apparent indication before that that both Elyos were not in sync time-wise.

 

Spoiler

That was a surprise, but it does make some sense on a meta-level: all of Fell Xenologue happens during the battle with Sombron, yet there were no repercussions to Alear exploring the entirety of an alternate Elyos. Obviously that's just so the story can fit in anywhere in the vanilla timeline, but it was funny in a way.

When do you think the story takes place chronologically, by the way?

Spoiler

The Winds + Dragons' Supports with Mauvier and Veyle indicate that the former joined the party before the latter. Those Supports also serve as a neat epilogue to Fell Xenologue, so I think FX happening before Chapter 20-22 makes sense.

Main game spoilers (and some meta spoilers?):

Spoiler

The Fell Xenologue characters are listed in the ending montage after the Solmians but before Saphir and Lindon, so right after Chapter 17 seems a likely suggestion (though that could just be how IS chose to sort the characters).

And I don't remember the approximate levels of everyone at that point in the story, but from what I gather, everyone having an internal level of 20 matches up with the vanilla story's recommended level around Chapter 17~20 too? Considering all the Royals are introduced at that point, that would track to some extent as well.

 

[Acacia Sgt]

28 minutes ago, Aedan7479 said:

 

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the twist that EVERYONE except for the playable characters are dead or corrupted, the bleak narration at the beginning of each chapter; personally, it felt overdone to a point that I couldn't take it seriously. I did however like the Nil/Nel/Rafal flashbacks at the end of each chapter, it shows how much of a monster Sonbron was to his children, which was something I wanted from the main game, in fact, I wonder if Veyle should've been more like Rafel, because I think Rafel was better with the 'Villianous sibling desperate for parental love' shtick.

Spoiler

I'd say, to me the Fell Siblings are the only salvageable thing of the FX. It would've been interesting to explore this in the main world Elyos instead of relying on a different one.

28 minutes ago, Aedan7479 said:

Also, quick question regarding Nel:

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aren't she and Alear siblings? I heard someone say that the Fell Xenologue Alear was actually Lumera's child, but I didn't see that mentioned anywhere in game. I know Nel doesn't know that Alear is a fell dragon, but it's still a bit uncomfortable.

Spoiler

It's implied through Alt Alear having fully blue hair.

28 minutes ago, Aedan7479 said:

And one thing I wonder:

 

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do you think IS intended to give Alear and Veyle their Dragon forms? Nel and Rafal have four Dragonstones which is even explain storywise in their supports, so I wonder if it was intended at one point.

Spoiler

I don't think so. The dragonstones are the fragments of Nel's (haven't seen their supports yet but that's what they are, no? Since we do see the dragonstone break apart), so I doubt it was intended for Alear and Veyle to use them. Rafal being able to use them probably derives from his earlier use of the Bracelets power to gain a form of his own. Due to having carried Nel's dragonstone for a long time, perhaps it got synced to his transformation as a result?

17 minutes ago, DefyingFates said:

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That was a surprise, but it does make some sense on a meta-level: all of Fell Xenologue happens during the battle with Sombron, yet there were no repercussions to Alear exploring the entirety of an alternate Elyos. Obviously that's just so the story can fit in anywhere in the vanilla timeline, but it was funny in a way.

When do you think the story takes place chronologically, by the way?

  Hide contents

The Winds + Dragons' Supports with Mauvier and Veyle indicate that the former joined the party before the latter. Those Supports also serve as a neat epilogue to Fell Xenologue, so I think FX happening before Chapter 20-22 makes sense.

Main game spoilers (and some meta spoilers?):

  Hide contents

The Fell Xenologue characters are listed in the ending montage after the Solmians but before Saphir and Lindon, so right after Chapter 17 seems a likely suggestion (though that could just be how IS chose to sort the characters).

And I don't remember the approximate levels of everyone at that point in the story, but from what I gather, everyone having an internal level of 20 matches up with the vanilla story's recommended level around Chapter 17~20 too? Considering all the Royals are introduced at that point, that would track to some extent as well.

 

There seems to be some indications the DLC is taking place as soon it unlocks. As in, after Chapter 6.

Spoiler

Zelestia is the only Wind that Alear is surprised to see. This is because Alear did saw Zephia back in Chapter 5. However, with the other three there's no response. Earliest would've been Chapter 10. So unless Alear was too quick to stop being surprised, it looks more that they truly might not have met their main Elyos counterparts.

This same attitude goes on to the countries and royals themselves. Alear does engage with talk regarding the differences between their Firene and the Alt Firene, bringing up what they know and all that, but after that the commentary just... stops. This is because by Chapter 6, we've only visited Firene. So Alear's lack of commentary would fit if they had yet to actually visit the other places in the main Elyos.

Also, Alear never brings up "Actually, I'm originally a Fell Dragon". So it definitely can't take place after Chapter 20.

At least, that's how I see it. But perhaps it is as you say, considering all those other factors.

One thing for sure. It's definitely set, regardless of where you are in the main story. FX's dialogue never changes to acomodate.

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by Acacia Sgt

[DefyingFates]

11 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Spoiler

Zelestia is the only Wind that Alear is surprised to see. This is because Alear did saw Zephia back in Chapter 5. However, with the other three there's no response. Earliest would've been Chapter 10. So unless Alear was too quick to stop being surprised, it looks more that they truly might not have met their main Elyos counterparts.

 

This is true. I think there's enough deniable plausibility to suggest Alear is quick to adapt so those later interactions still make sense as is too.

12 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Spoiler

This same attitude goes on to the countries and royals themselves. Alear does engage with talk regarding the differences between their Firene and the Alt Firene, bringing up what they know and all that, but after that the commentary just... stops. This is because by Chapter 6, we've only visited Firene. So Alear's lack of commentary would fit if they had yet to actually visit the other places in the main Elyos.

 

I noticed this too, and again I think the writing is kept deliberately vague so that the story can work anywhere in the first two acts of Engage itself, though it almost certainly happens prior to before the last stretch of the story.

[Aedan7479]

I haven't gotten all the supports yet, but in Madeline and Mauvier's C support, Mauvier says that Madeline must have a lot of Introductions to get through, which would imply she only recently arrived. But I don't think it matters much when the Fell Xenologue takes place, it's fundamentally no different from arguing who Alear canonically gives the pact ring to.

[BloodRonin]

On 4/8/2023 at 7:58 PM, DefyingFates said:

I didn't notice that, thank you so much for pointing that out!

correction! I was wrong, there is another I didn't notice... Making the dragon attacks have a range of 1-2! It is so good. 

[DefyingFates]

4 hours ago, BloodRonin said:

correction! I was wrong, there is another I didn't notice... Making the dragon attacks have a range of 1-2! It is so good. 

Yep! That's also a refine you can go back and forth on. It sucks that you have to pay each time though...

And another thing, the Magicstone (targets Res) and Slaystone (eff. against Cavalry) are part of a triangle of refines along the Weightstone (eff. against Flying) that you already mentioned. You HAVE to cycle through those three in that order though, which sucks. Swapping between those is cheaper than the first Stone, but we already have branching refinery options for other weapons so I don't get why they didn't just do that for those two as well. The "shapeshifting stones to meet requirements" thing is really clever though, and I like that instead of having one specifically meant to be Armored units there's just a magic stone instead to do that and add Res targeting alternative for general combat.