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The No Emblems Challenge


Jotari
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Engage without the Emblems is a pretty obvious challenge. I'm sure that's a big reason why Bind Rings are a thing. Here are the rules I'm playing by.

*You cannot equip and Emblems

*When an Emblem is auto equipped you cannot Engage or use command abilities and must unequip after the battle.

*Bond Rings from Emblems are allowed, but Engraving weapons is not.

*Bond levels can be gained with Emblems for the sake of Bond Ring manipulation and gaining proficiencies, but no skill inheritance is allowed.

 

And that's it. Short, but we're gutting the most central mechanic of the game. So let's see how it goes.

 

I'm playing on Hard, because my first playthrough was Maniac and oh boy am I not good enough to do that without Emblems. The first few chapters are pretty standard. Alear is auto equipped with Marth but it's basically the tutorial so there's no temptation to Engage. It's not until after Lumeria is dead that we actually get preparations screen and can unequip Marth. And unlike my first playthrough we automatically unlock the three Bond Rings from Heroes along with their weapons. Alphonse goes on Alear since that feels naturally, she's getting his sword too. Clanne and Frame get the other too as those are all spur effects and they'll be the back bench more adjacent to allies.

 

Chapter 4 is when the tutorial is basically over. I had a bit of concern about Louis and Chloe without Warp Ragnarok to save them like the intended method. And indeed they did end up dying, but fortunately we've also just got time rewind and this is a casual playthrough (though, mind you, not a casual mode playthrough) so I'm abusing that to make sure my first armoured and flying units survive.

 

After chapter 4 I finally get some more bond Rings. I do a little bit of manipulation to ensure I get some S ranks and I aim for the ones that have skills. My first win is Deirdre which is actually pretty great as she brings Renewal. That's slapped right on Frame as it means she can chain guard every turn. Unfortunately Renewal restores a flat 5HP per turn, which is a fine amount now, but it means Framme's ability to Dual Guard will actually get worse as she levels up and gains more HP. Still, by far the best ring for my Qi Adep.

 

Chapter 5 is considerably easier than Maniac mode, especially breaking into the final area and beating the boss. No need for an Engage attack at all, whereas in Maddening it was almost mandatory to damage him at all.

 

After Chapter 5 I gatcha for bond Rings again and rig myself a Mae. Thunder gets all the love from Bond Rings as her ring increases the power of a thunder time by 20%. Shame they don't let you equip two at once. Naturally that went right on Framme (not using Celine, tried last playthrough, she's awful). Unfortunately though I forgot to actually give Framme a thunder tome making it useless.

 

Next is the Yunaka chapter. Yunaka gets Micaiah automatically after killing the first enemy. Alear runs into a bit of trouble and almost died as the game expects you to heal her using Yunaka's staff abilities, but we get by chugging vulneraries and letting the enemy come to us. Alear's Spur Atk from Alphonse's ring is pretty useless given Yunaka doubles.

 

I pick up some more bond Rings, but none of them have effects and are just equipped for stats. Then I do Anna's paralogue. I'm ignoring Jean's because I want to wait until I can reclass him and make use of his personal skill. Anna's paralogue is also pretty manageable, the early game really isn't challenging at all on Hard even without Emblem use. And as I suspect, generic bandit boss (but female!) doesn't move on Hard making her simple to pick off.

 

After that battle I pick up a Nabarl for myself who grants 10crit to sword users. Unfortunately Alear is my only sword users and I'm quite attached to Alphone on her. So I head to the Horetneisa chapter ignoring him, where I do get another sword users, but after the battle prep so I can't equip Bond Rings.

 

Hortensia's squad prove much easier to bait in than Maddening, no surprise, but actually dealing with her squad was more challenging than expected. I try to kill as many of her allies as possible before dealing with her, but can't quite manage to kill Rosado and Kagetsu at the same time, so I kill off only Rosado for the Steel Axe and finish Hortensia.

 

Next up is the Ivy Battle. I give Lapis Nabarl, only to realize in the midst of the battle that her personal actually reduces crit, so Nabarl is not the best skill for her.

 

I actually underestimate the enemy and finish with two pegasus knights just in range of seizing. Alcyrst makes short work of Ivy. I plan on making use of Alcyrst this play through as I chose Diamant over him last time. Also I finally give Framme a thunder tome to make use of Mae.

 

And that's where I am now, with Leif just obtained and ready to abuse to give me a bunch of Olwens to tackle the game with a Dime Thunder squad...is what I want to say, but I've just spent a thousand crystals with no S Rank Olwen. In fact my S ranks have dried up completely. So I promote Anna, whom I've been feeding levels via the arena, and since two class seals are available I buy them both, make Anna a sage and go off to get Jean.

 

Jean's chapter must not be scaled as it was piss easy to clear out the place. Barely a few minutes.

 

And now I'm trying to get Olwin again, but no dice. Again even an S rank isn't pooping up. This is frustrating, I don't have many more chapters to go before Leif leaves me unless I just do Skirmishes.

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3 hours ago, Jotari said:

I'm trying but it's harder than people were implying T.T

Are you saving before getting the rings, seeing if you like them, then resetting if not? You can advance the RNG by entering and exiting a map- it will advance by a number equal to the number of enemies on the map.

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4 minutes ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

Are you saving before getting the rings, seeing if you like them, then resetting if not? You can advance the RNG by entering and exiting a map- it will advance by a number equal to the number of enemies on the map.

Yes I've been save scumming, but to no avail. Didn't know you could merely enter and exit a map though. Still, I don't think I'll get more than on Dime Thunder unless fate gives me two. There are plenty of other Bond Ring skills I want to try out.

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3 hours ago, Jotari said:

Yes I've been save scumming, but to no avail. Didn't know you could merely enter and exit a map though. Still, I don't think I'll get more than on Dime Thunder unless fate gives me two. There are plenty of other Bond Ring skills I want to try out.

Indeed you can! This is actually a key step, the "manip" part in RNG manipulation. Or at least, that's how I learned how to do it. Should help you at least get one copy of this 10-cent thunder.

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I'll try the full scale manipulation tomorrow. But for today, given I've already started promoting my units, I've decided to get some help from another world. It's Fell Xenologue time. Or rather it's mostly auto battling through Fell Xenologue on Normal mode because I just want to use the new characters it provides (since there was literally nothing to do with them when I unlocked them on my Maddening playthrough). In between I train Jean at the Arena after class changing him to fighter. I want him to be my physical beast by utilizing Berserker's aptitude growths. I also try to roll for Olwen the regular way with no dice, but I did pick up Lillina which is nice as she can boost fire magic.

Upon finishing Fell Xenologue I decide to make Alear a Mage Cannoneer and almost immediately regret the decision as I realize I can't combo her personal ability with spur attack if she's on the other side of the map. Oh well, someone has to be a mage cannoneer and I want to try all the fell Xenologue characters in their default classes.

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Back to the main campaign now with my Fell Xenologue units and I might have jumped the gun on that as my units feel very over powered playing through Chapter 9. After Chapter 9 I try to rig myself an Olwen again. Loading a map and leaving doesn't seem to work. Loading a map entering the map and even giving the enemy a turn doesn't work. The only thing that seems to work is playing a chapter or doing the arena. I get fortunate and do eventually draw an S ranked Olwen. I also manage to get a Dieck too, which gives me improved Smash Attack accuracy. Which is unfortunately necessary.

Chapter 10 actually ends up being more difficult than expected. Hortensia can actually deal a lot of damage. I guess the game expects you to really be using your emblems now.

Straight into Chapter 11. I immediately decide to just waste a run by seeing if I can attack Veyle and...wow...this is super freaking easy. I had so much trouble with this chapter on my original Maddening run but these enemies can barely touch my Fell Xenologue units and even my other regular units are handling with them with almost no stress. This chapter is waaay more intense on Maddening. I was forced to construct a virtually flawless strategy to beat it. Took like an entire day.

It turns out Veyle's three HP bars are just for show though as she's immune to damage entirely. I've cleared out all the enemies around her and am just clowning on her from three spaces away getting exp. Tempted to put Jean in two range of her to see if chain attacks can damage her, but she can kill him with a single attack and she doubles him so even with a dual giard or was spell his end. Eventually the map has been cleaned out entirely of enemies. I send Alear down south to try and finish the chapter and the Hounds show up amidst all my units. And they are powerful enough to wipe out my party. Should have saw that coming. I do get to see Zelestia and Gregory's conversations with their counterparts at least. Not Madeline's unfortunately because I didn't bring her to the previous battle. Second try I beat it without any trouble.

Chapter 13 was a milk run chapter as it's designed to be. Only issue is that I forgot to unequip Lucina from Alear initially causing her to do a Mage Cannoner Chain Attack the first time I attacked. Seems like a fun combo to try in another playthrough. For this one though it was a swift reset and reload.

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First thing I do is pull for some new Bond Rings and I luckily get an S Ranked Morgan and an S Ranked Chrom with Rightful King which...is significantly more nerfed in this game (though technically it's called Rightful Heir). Only +5 to proc rates. Well better than nothing I suppose. My choices would be Alcryst for Luna or Anna for Make A Killing. But since I already have Lillina on Anna for extra fire damage, it does on Alcryst. It probably would be better on Anna in the long run. Actually, screw it, yeah. Taking it off Alcrycst, giving Gregory Lilina and giving Anna Chrom.

On to Chapter 13. Where again I have a forced Emblem, this time Ike on Timerra. And we have an ability that skirts the line between passive and active with Demolish. Ike's ability to break terrain in one go. I will approach this by not attacking to break Terrain with Timerra, unless she could have broken it anyway without Demolish. So if someone else attacks it first and weakens the terrain, she can finish it off.

In practice, this seems to be very little to concern. Panette can already one shot these barricades with her natural strength. i think their HP must have been buffed on Maddening Mode or something. The chapter still proves to be a bit tricky though, even though I'm only expected to have three Emblems. The enemies are dealing a lot more damage and putting my units in low HP. Still easy enough that I can proceed without much thought and rewind any mistakes I do happen to make.

Dieck on Jean actually turns out to be a decent combo. Jean only has the Iron Great Axe, but the extra hit boost makes it a really reliable weapon to use even on enemy phase to just deal significant counter damage. He has a silver axe too which almost deals as much damage, but we're talking 70% hit vs 90% hit.

Chapter finished now. Making sure to unequip Ike from Timerra right away, even though I don't intend to use her. I'd like to, since I didn't use her last playthrough, but five DLC characters really crowd up the roster a bit.

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Chapter 14 did not go my way. It felt like everything that could go wrong did go wrong. All the attacks that really needed to hit missed and I failed all the critical dodges. A generic enemy even landed a crit on me at one point. Just a regular Corrupted Warrior. I still won, because ten rewinds is a ridiculous amount of leeway, but luck was very much not on my side.

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I pull for some more Bond Rings and end up picking up Nino and Claude. Nino, unlike the other two magic elemental rings only boosts Excalibur, not Wind or Elwind. And since I don't have Excalibur, she's pretty useless to me now. Claude on the other hand has a really good effect. He boosts bow range when at full HP. That's going straight on Alcyrst.

I also promote Yunaka into an Enchanter. Zekov actually is stronger than Yunaka so it would be smarter to use him, but I just kind of feel like using Yunaka.

Starting chapter 15. I was actually a bit apprehensive about this one as you're meant to use Seadall's dragon veins to clear the miasma. Since I can't do that I have to burn through several obstruct staves to get the same effect. It turns out to be pretty painless in the end.

Enchanter is a really fun class. Using vulneraries as mini Fortify staves is super useful, especially with how many vulneraries I still have now. And weapon surge is just fantastic. I've given Yunaka a spare Thunder Tome just so she can weapon surge Thunder without trading. Weapon Surge Thunder gives +5 Mt, making Dire Thunder Zelestia capable of killing pretty much anything not hiding in miasma.

On to chapter 16 and we have a bit of an issue with Eirika. I'm not that comfortable attacking with her since her Luna skill feels a bit too active for this challenge. So I resolved to just not touch Rosado at all for the entire chapter. Unfortunately he did counter attack once against an enemy since reinforcements kept spawning around him. It did add a nice sort of additional objective to treat him like a point to defend, however.

Afterwards I pull for some Eirika Bond Rings and get an S Ranked Innes and Marisa. Innes gives a dex chance of not missing, so that goes on my Mage Cannoneer Alear. Marisa has a 30% chance of making criticals instant kills, so I toss that on Yunaka. I now have a Bond Ring Skill on my entire team. Maybe later I'll detail exactly what everyone has.

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WHOA. Difficulty jump. Chapter 17 was really freaking hard. Probably even harder than  my Maddening Playthrough. Chapter 17 is the 6 on 6 Emblem battle where you take on Veyle, the Hounds and Corrupted Hayacinth. Taking down the regular enemies was fine, but the six bosses were each very hard to kill. Griss comes in first with a speed stat that let him double everything. Marnie and Mauvier move at the same time with Marnie having Hold Out for extra durability. Then Veyle and Hayacinth come together, with Hayacinth actually making Leif's gimmick work and Veyle being able to dodge everything with her Marth abilities. They really just expect you to use Engage abilities to take these enemies out in one shot and not tackle them using conventional methods. My complete lack of conventional inheritable abilities also certainly isn't helping. In addition, they almost certainly have expected you to have cleared a few Emblem Paralogues by this point for extra exp, while I've been ignoring them entirely. Either way, this challenge is not the walk in the park I was expecting it to be. It'll probably only get more difficult from here on out.

Oh wow, I just discovered there's a weapon for the mage cannoner that has 50% chance to freeze enemies. That is going to make a massive difference to Alear's utility. And given there are a lot more weapons than I realized, actually makes her a pretty good choice for the class due to natural convoy access.

21 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

In a game where like six units get proc skills lmao

It's not like Rightful King was even considered that great a skill in Awakening given it took two slots to make it effective and most people prefer guarantees over procs, bu here, not only is 5% pitiful, but it's directly in competition with the Emblems.

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Chapter 18, aka the boat chapter, was much easier. Though I did have a bit of trouble getting the speed wing. After the chapter I decided to actually spread around the stat boosters I've been hoarding, since the game is becoming challenging now. I also realised I was wasting Dire Thunder on Zelestia as she's actually my fastest mage, so I've moved it to Gregory (funny he's my slowest mage when I just had major issue with Griss's speed as an enemy). I also want to change Jean away from Berserker. His doubled class growths have given him good strength and great HP, but he's too slow and can't quite make use of it. I assumed I'd put him into Sword Master for the best speed growth, but it seems Sword Master is tied for best speed Growth with Bow Knight, Wolf Knight and Griffon Knight. That makes Sword Master seem pretty poor considering all of those classes are mounted and can use swords. Though I guess back up is a pretty good unit type. Still, I'd rather bow, knives or staves. In fact, bow Knight literally has better growth rates than Swordmaster, having the same in every category except 5 extra dex. Though Swordmaster has better speed bases, but growths are more important for Jean. I decide on Bow Knight with swords as a sub weapon since Zelestia is my only sword user and she mostly uses tomes. I'll probably still use bows with him mostly, but swords will be there for breaking and smashing.

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Chapter 19 was another easy one. I thought it might be tough because I'm going up against enemy Emblems again, but Marnie and Mauvier are far less aggressive than their previous appearance or the Maddening version of this map. They're content to send all the corrupted at you first and let you pick them off at the end. Though, that does make me realize my turn count for this challenge is a bit abysmal. I probably could be playing a lot better (though if I'd be going for efficiency I'd be using Dire Thunder on all my mages instead of one).

I was momentarily really excited when I pulled a Soren who has Wind Adept. At first glance it looks like Dire Thunder only for Wind instead and I was thinking "What! Why haven't people talked about this?" But it turns out it's a Dex% for another attack when using Wind, not just a guaranteed extra attack like Dire Thunder...which really sucks, because it's still limited to using just Wind, the weakest magic in the game. It'd be pretty decent proc move if it was on all versions of wind.

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Chapter 20, fighting Griss in the shadows. Quite a bit harder than Chapter 18 and 19 but nowhere near 17. It's the regular enemies giving me trouble now as it feels like they've been buffed a lot. Possibly a consequence of them having expected you to do four more Emblem paralogues now. I need to buy some more pure waters for Enchanter as it gives effective corrupted, which all regular enemies will be from now on. Griss himself was pretty easy, his speed is no longer an issue, in fact it's the opposite, I had to use a time rewind because I ended up killing him by having Framme break him on player phase, have him unleash his Emblem giving him unholy Aura, and then having Framme kill herself by doubling him on enemy phase and having unholy aura work on her multiple times. Don't know why they jumped back the usability where in Three Houses you could see what skills a monster would have after you break one of its HP bars.

I get Excalibur for beating Griss which I give to Anna, and I take off Chrom's crappy rightful heir in favor of Nino's Giga Excalibur. All of my mages are dealing pretty high damage now with their Bond Ring boosted damage. I pick up three more S Ranked rings (Raigh, Sophia and Fae) but none with skills. Even though I'm ignoring skill inheritance and rigging my Bond Ring Gacha, it feels like I still don't nearly have enough shards for this mechanic. I want to end the game with a full collection of Bond Rings, but I can barely afford to pull for half. And melding rings together to fill out higher levels is just hilariously expensive. And I just want to do it for the sake of it. I already have a good line up of skill bond rings for my main team. These would stand no chance if competing with Emblems and shards for the sake of skill inheritance. In other words, I'm ignoring half the use for these crystals and cheating and yet it's still not enough.

 

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Two more chapters done. Was going good until I actually had to fight Veyle. Her loedstar rush was so powerful it could wipe out anyone. Burned through all my rewinds and actually failed to defeat her in the end. Second try was easier.

After that chapter we got the recollect Emblem rings chapter. This was an absolute nightmare on Maddening where infinite reinforcements coming from the direction you're trying to get to slowed the map to a crawl. On hard it was immensely more manageable. I'd cleared the map out before those reinforcements ever even came. Alear was auto equipped with Marth that I couldn't remove so I had her pick up every Emblem on the map to stop anyone else getting one.

Afterwards I get a few more Bond Rings including Alm who has Windsweep, which is so close to being good but missed the mark and becomes entirely useless. It's a luck% of negating a counter attack if you're using a sword. Which means you can't ever rely on it. I think I'd rather stick with Navarre's +10 crit when using a sword.

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Chapter 23 done. Not a whole lot to say. It was about as challenging as my Blind Maddening run. The enemy was particularly good at using freeze against me. Burned through quite a few rescue staves getting people to safety.

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Chapter 24 done. Was much more manageable on Hard than Maddening. I had like five turns left before I finished and went at a pretty leisurely pace, while on Maddening it was pretty down to the wire trying to pull out a victory.

I'll probably finish up tomorrow. I only have Lumeria and Sombron left and an 18 hour flight to entertain myself for as long as my Switch's battery holds. Though, I guess I should do Alear's paralogue too just for the sake of marrying someone.

In the meantime, to make this post a bit meatier (assuming anyone other than Anonymous Speed has actually read it) here is my team in full.

Alear + Innes: Sure strikes works very well as I've reclassed Alear to a Mage Cannoneer. She faces around 30% hit against most enemies, so a Dex% chance to hit on top of that makes her much more reliable. If I was doing skill inheritance I could get Divine Pulse on top of that, and that's probably what I would do if I had Emblems, but in a no Emblems challenge Innes really helps a lot. Which is funny as Sure Strike is considered one of the most useless skills in the series in its home game.

Framme+Deirdre: Deirdre was great healing 5 hp in the early game where that was enough to make Framme chain guard every turn, but later game she has fallen off as Framme requires two turns of auto healing. Still, Framme herself is performing admirably as my main staff bot, and unlike Maddening, Arts can actually deal damage to enemies and provide good opportunities to Break opponents.

Anna+Nino: Anna's stats really are amazing. Nino is nothing special, giving more damage on Excalibur, but Anna is one of my most reliable killers. In addition to Excalibur, she also has Nova for a brave effect. The two high level tomes are in competition for more use as sometimes Excalibur can deal more damage if Anna can double.

Rafal+Alfonse: Rafal was king when I first got him, which might have been too early. But he fell off pretty quickly and is one of my weaker units now. Shame, as, despite being on record thinking he's a colossal idiot and poorly written, I actually do like the character.

Gregory+Olwen: The MVP. Dire Thunder really is fantastic. The one Bond Ring that can actually compete against Emblems. And it works really well on Gregory with his high magic and low speed. Unfortunately his Dex could be a bit better as he has a habit of missing with one of the Thunder strikes. Still, along with Anna, my most reliable enemy killed in the army.

Madeline+Dieck: One of my worst units. Generals have a reputation of being good early game and poor late game in Engage and she does nothing to dissuade that. Her defense is reliable enough to throw her into a crowd of enemies and work as a meat shield, but her real weakness is her Dex. She has about a 50% hit rate against most enemies meaning she really struggles to land kills and gain exp. Hence why I have an accuracy boosting Bond Ring. She now has Ukonvasara so maybe Dieck can pair well with that on her.

Alcryst+Claude: A very good unit in isolation, but excellent with the Claude bond ring boosting his range. A three range killer bow that is almost guaranteed to double has come in clutch many times and the insane four range long bow has also let me pull of things I couldn't otherwise do.

Lindon+Soren: A good combo in theory. Chance at doubling with wind, which will always have a crit rate in Lindon's hands...only Elfire almost always deals more damage than two wind hits and still gives him a crit boost since enemies have such strong weapons by the time I had deployment slots to use him. I've finally forged Wind to +5 now so maybe that will change, but mostly he's just an extra body filling the additional deployment slot designed for Veyle.

Yunaka+Marisa: Marisa is almost useless on Yunaka. Good in theory, crits being lethal tied with someone with a crit boosting personal, but I'm not attacking with her much. Mostly using her Enchanter class which is great. Throwing out vulnearies to heal 15HP to multiple units is great. Especially for getting Framme in Chain Guard range and keeping Alcryst at full HP for his extra bow range. I've bought tonnes of pure water for Corrupted effective, but haven't been using them as much as I really should.

Nel+Sharena: Probably my worst unit. Fell off very quickly just like Rafal. Only Rafal can still take a few hits. Nel only really has better magic over him which is of limited use.

Mauvier+Anna: Reclassed him into Griffon Knight to help with the mist in the Past Alear chapter. He's quite a bit tankier on Hard mode, but I'm really just using him to get his supports with the four three winds.

Jean+Navarre: Has Navarre just because there's no one better. I'm mostly using him for bows as he's a bow knight. Was a Berserker for quite a while but was falling behind in speed. Now working very effectively since becoming a bow knight and getting a few levels. Uses a Brave Bow primarily which he can often hit four times with for high damage.

Clanne+Mae: Promoted to a Mage Knight. One of the most moderate units of the armies. Mae let's him use a pretty powerful Thoron.

Zelestia+Lilina: Probably my third best killed. She has a +5 forged Bolganone which deals a lot of damage in conjunction with Lillina. Being a flying mage is also always cool.

 

 

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Last three chapters done. I have to say, it wasn't easy. Much like the main game the challenge really amps up for those last two chapters. Alear's paralogue was pretty manageable though. For Lumeria I did the map the intended way, ie took both sides at once. In Maddening I cheesed it by having Micaiah group warp everyone to the same side. I had enough rewards and rescues to do that here too but decided the more intended route would be more fun. It was still a very desperate rush to Lumeria in the end where all my charges were gone and I just plain got lucky hitting her with multiple ~50% hits.

For Sombron I did the opposite of the intended way. Figuring it would be quicker to take out three Dark Emblems and then just kill him with the 75% weakened barrier. It still took two hours to finish him off! To give you some indication, I actually struggled to take down even his first form, spending several turns at it. The lack of skill inheritance certainly hurts this late in the game in addition to the obvious lack of Emblem attacks and support. So often I wish I had Micaiah and her multi spread obstruct or freeze.

But, anyway, I managed it. Engage best without ever engaging an Emblem and unequipping them as soon as I can. Using the Bond Rings with their hilariously uncompetitive skills was fun. A lot of them are still useful....just no where useful as an Emblem. Though there are fewer Emblems dedicated for mages while there are more Bond Rings (or at least the better Bond Rings) suitable for mages. If only they we're sealed behind the Gatcha mechanic. If I ever do play Engage again in a straightforward manner, I'll certainly be picking up Deirdre and Olwin rings.

Oh, also I married Rafal.

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