Makaze

I can buy that their argument is town v town (especially after reading Bart's last post), but who are you actually suspecting then? i.e. Are you okay with me being the top wagon right now? lol

gdi still forgot someone in the switch meh Going to go a little more in depth. My PoE at the moment: Town @RADicate (Mentor: @Walrein) // General town pings and lack of agenda made me feel pretty good about them. my weakest read in this category though @Rapier (Mentor: @eclipse) // Pretty strong argumentation and way of presenting that shows constantly evolving opinions as they read each post. doesn't state conclusions, states progressions @XnadrojX - Bomb Moss (Mentor: @undine's breath - Lenny) // Not much to say, town pings all around Town Lean @Junk (Junko) // I haven't gotten the feeling of ingenuine motives or randomnes I usually get from Junko which suggests they are more relaxed than when I have seen them (usually as Mafia) and that reads good to me. Mixed Pings (Townsided) @athena_57 (Mentor: @Refa) // Some posts strike me as town and others have blatant misreps. Part of me thinks they are just odd or trying things out, and I liked their Satsuma case. While some content has an agenda, some does not, so it is hard for me to pin down his motives. Town with agenda is possible. Mixed Pings (Scumsided) @Mackc2 (Mentor: @Magnificence Incarnate - Marth) // Seems to ask a lot of useless questions and avoids taking strong stances. In general doesn't touch real content with a ten foot pole. If this continues, going to call it more than caution, but I don't like this when I have more decisive pings. Null-ish Scum Lean (Haven't done homework) @SatsumaFSoysoy (Mentor: @Vi-astra) // I liked athena's case on them. I haven't had any especially good pings about them, so I'll have to make a read of my own later. Scum Lean @EvanManManMan (Mentor: @Shinori) // His entrance was bad, but then his posts later weren't terrible, but he dropped off the earth. sticking with first impressions until further impressions exist @Bartozio (Mentor: @SB.) // Several of their posts and questions rang hollow to me and I haven't seen anything that jumps out to me as town. I'll comment on specifics tomorrow (this is where I would consolidate despite Evan being stronger early because Evan isn't even around.) Scum @Fable Null (No homework) @Fenrir Aesir (Mentor: @Fenraiser) @Zeonth (Mentor: @Alette)

wtf it posted out of nowhere. sigh list incomplete, finishing My PoE at the moment: Town @RADicate (Mentor: @Walrein) @Rapier (Mentor: @eclipse) @XnadrojX - Bomb Moss (Mentor: @undine's breath - Lenny) Town Lean @Junk (Junko) Mixed Pings (Townsided) @athena_57 (Mentor: @Refa) Mixed Pings (Scumsided) @Mackc2 (Mentor: @Magnificence Incarnate - Marth) Null-ish Scum Lean (Haven't done homework) @SatsumaFSoysoy (Mentor: @Vi-astra) Scum Lean @EvanManManMan (Mentor: @Shinori) // His entrance was bad, but then his posts later weren't terrible, but he dropped off the earth. sticking with first impressions until further impressions exist Scum @Fable Null (No homework) @Fenrir Aesir (Mentor: @Fenraiser) @Zeonth (Mentor: @Alette)

My PoE as the moment: Town @RADicate (Mentor: @Walrein) @Rapier (Mentor: @eclipse) @XnadrojX - Bomb Moss (Mentor: @undine's breath - Lenny) Town Lean @Junk (Junko) Mixed Pings (Townsided) @athena_57 (Mentor: @Refa) Mixed Pings (Scumsided) @Mackc2 (Mentor: @Magnificence Incarnate - Marth) Null-ish Scum Lean (Haven't done homework) @SatsumaFSoysoy (Mentor: @Vi-astra)@EvanManManMan (Mentor: @Shinori) @Fable @Zeonth (Mentor: @Alette)

Okay. I don't need to talk to you to observe you talking to others, which is where pings will be more helpful anyway.

I'm actually only interested in how what you say feels not the content. If you do the same shit as both alignments then you're being intentionally NAI with that play, and I'm here to tell you I can read which you are through the BS despite you having the same basic content because the way you say it has different connotations and emotions. If I'm wrong, then so what? Why are you so bothered by it when no one else is sheeping me? Why so defensive, why so angry? On second thought, don't answer that, I don't really care; my point is, I'd rather see something that pings me town, than argue over stuff that, at best, you think shouldn't ping me at all, but still does. You are not going to change my mind about what pings me in the past. You are going to have to ping me town with new stuff starting now. No way around it.

I skipped over that post originally because it doesn't contain a question, and actually only states the facts. I don't see what kind of response you expected, since your statement was correct. I wasn't trying to discern your alignment, I was asserting what I thought your alignment was, with confidence. Not having active doubts and waffles after already discerning your alignment is not something I am uncomfortable with. Before you have a fit about "how can you refuse to question your reads", notice I use the word active. I play with a style where I am constantly confident I am right, but I change what I am right about as the need arises. You saw this first hand, and I can adapt to new information. I just don't doubt myself until new information arrives. You had and have chances to prove me wrong, but you could not do that by answering any questions I had. You would have to do something I did not expect you to do to change my mind. I don't think I ignored RAD, but I can't remember who I actually answered, so I probably ignored several people until I finally answered. I stand by not answering when I said no because I have gained more info from people reacting to my gauntlet throw than I would have if I gave my reasons and saw lazy "I don't agree" or "I'll sheep that" posts. I had reasons to throw down and not answer until later similar to how you had reasons to throw nothing down and then come out with reads later. I think my method is more investigative because I am actively affecting how much information is gained before I reveal things instead of just waiting until a certain time to say anything, though.

He is correct that I have only played the one game, but I am also confident in my experience, and I have no reason to doubt my strongest instincts in both games. Small sample sizes are irrelevant when it comes down to how I feel about it. It's disingenous to say I think shitposting makes you scummy. I've denied that several times. It's your tone. You can't do anything to defend against that aside from show genuine solving and town motivation like you had last game, but that doesn't mean you can defend yourself against something I didn't say. You can't shake me by misrepping me.

What reads are you re-evaluating? As of which post did start you have reads/what set you on your path? What felt tonally off about Bart to you? How does it fit in with this town vs town narrative? You know my stance, but: If he can get away with it as town, he can get away with it as scum. If he can get away with it as scum, then it's not necessarily a bad play. This is WIFOM at best. You have to decide what you think is actually happening in this game instead of what you think makes sense in most cases. That said, I've said this before: it is not that he is hiding his reads and being uncooperative. There are cases where doing those is a valid town strategy. What's scummy about it is the way he's going about it and how he is handling challenges. His emotional range is defensive, self-preserving and not investigative at all. Just for shits and giggles, I'm going to reply to Fable's posts, to make sure I didn't miss anything. He said he asked me two questions. Hopefully I've already answered them. This gif was his first post in response to my vote on him. Assuming this broad question was directed at me, I personally don't need the content of a post to be game related for the reason for making the post to be game related. I try to reason out why you made a post instead of what the content means, so I can read into anything, including when, where, how and why you made a shitpost. Depends on the person making the post. If the behavior is unpredictable, it's different from being predictable and alignment indicative. I don't think anything I have commented on qualifies as random or independent of motivations related to the game. I assume this was the question asked to me. I got strong scum vibes from your entrance and re-entance posts, and see distinct differences in tone and intensity compared to the last game, where I knew you were town right off the bat. I've said this to others several times. Not a question, but I did reply to it. I responded to this question by actually explaining what I meant by thunderdoming or what I think people will see as thunderdoming, so think it's kind of weird if this is the second question he was talking about. Not a question, but I did reply to it. I'm struggling to come up with what I ignored except for the leading "Why are you obsessed with me?" question, which has been answered a few times over.

Or @RADicate for that matter

I meant haven't here. Sorry

Uh dude The question has been answered. I ignored you. I didn't ignore others when they asked it. Read my answers. If you still struggle to see how I came to my conclusions, come up with questions that won't leave me quoting old posts as the answer. I'm hoping specific members reading this can see what I'm saying here at least Perhaps @Rapier has some questions for me

Those things weren't specific! Do you have any specific questions that have been answered by my other posts about my read on you?

What exactly are you expecting to happen if you keep mentioning me in the third person instead of asking me things? Do you have any specific questions for me?

On what I never responded to: This post was his only read, he posted it only after I prodded him, and the content is cautious. He is specifically avoiding anything approaching a strong stance and while it is not fun to read around, I can see this level of caution coming from town, and didn't see any questions that would help until he had a strong opinion he was sure about. I am still scum leaning on this slot because the caution is extremely tilting, but I am trying not to read into what I can't read instead of what I can, since that was my goal going into this game.

I do care, I just believe it's Mafia. Asking me to explain my read on you isn't helpful, and I have explained it to others. If you have any further questions, you can ask them, but I am not going to get into a broad thunderdome conversation when it looks like you just want a chance to defend yourself and aren't actually trying to understand why I am saying what I am saying for the sake of understanding. i.e. you have the information you wanted, what is it you still want

On Mackc2: There is no way for me to read someone who says things like "I don't have anything strong enough to claim anyone is scum or town at the moment." That response makes me go WTF and I have no way to get a read off it, since it leaves no room for engagement. I eventually just gave up on trying to make him say something indicative because I felt that my questions would go in circles and decided to wait for him to do something on his own. I thought that would have been obvious when the last thing I said on the topic was: "Beginning to think Mackc2 is just that bad at getting to the point and asking the right questions. Or even answered the right questions..." I realized just now I never explicitly said I was frustrated or dropping it, so sorry for leaving that out. My stance on Mack is that I am frustrated that I can't get rise out of him and he is being lawyer like in his responses which would make me think he is being coached, but then I realized this is a mentor game so everyone is coaching. In short, I tried to rattle him into doing something, but after failing, I am frustrated at his lack of reads. I am going to wait for him to generate them because I cannot read him tonally with the way he is going. Rapier is town based on this post, I am getting strong vibes of actual thought process and solving from a "what are they doing and why" perspective.

Eeeeh. I'm not sure "Why are you so obsessed with me?" and "It's interesting that Makaze is voting random people to see what happens" counts as trying to engage with me. Trying to undermine my influence, yes, but that is not the same thing as engaging. Even now, you haven't asked me anything specific about my reads on others or tried to understand my thought process. If you want to engage with me, you're going to have to show investigative spirit, or I'm going to ignore it, and get right to the heart of it. I don't think there is a heart of it when your questions themselves are dismissive. See: My response to Mackc2's useless questions and athena's counter question to me. Those were at least hinting at something that I could engage about. Put some effort in. This post pings me as outright waffling and it is not possible to tell why he even mentioned athena other than athena has been a topic of discussion. He hasn't mentioned most other plays he has no reads on, so why mention this one that he explicitly has no reads on? I don't like it tonally or for the content. I think what you are doing is plenty alignment indicative. If you don't like the reads it is getting, you need to improve your game on your own, preferably by finding mafia and outing your feelings in a way that is hard to retract.

I actually like that case.

Acceptable.

I think you have misread my intentions if you think my votes were random. I did post a meme but I am serious about my reads.

Why would you phrase an intentional misrep at all? Bad question. Why did you phrase an intentional misrep as a question? You will deny it was intentional, but I don't believe that. If you have a town reason, I'm open to hearing it.

Noting that this is a misrepresentation and that the answer simply restated the original post.

Xnadroj is town. Don't think I said anything about them yet.

I don't think it's necessary to undercut my alarm bells and instincts.