New tier method applied to FE10

[Florete]

Now, I've never done anything like this before, so there might be some issues with it. Nothing is set in stone as of yet. And it's all in Hard mode.

1-P

Exists

Edward

Micaiah

Leonardo

Some might question Micaiah > Edward, but she has great Player Phase offense that allows Edward to kill without taking a hit and Sacrifice which can give Edward a player phase he’d otherwise use to heal himself. I could, however, see Edward > Micaiah if someone questions it, so this isn’t set in stone. See below, post #10.

Leo comes too late to be higher.

1-1

Chuck Norris

Nolan

Not Chuck Norris

Micaiah

Leonardo

Edward

I doubt anyone will question Nolan’s position, for obvious reasons.

Micaiah is better for the previous reasons. Leonardo is better because of only a few ranged enemies and Edward being 2-shotted by anything.

1-2

h4x

Sothe

Chuck Norris

Nolan

Still not Chuck Norris, and not h4x either

Laura

Micaiah

Leonardo

Edward

Once again, I doubt the questioning of Sothe’s or Nolan’s positioning.

Nolan’s durability isn’t even perfect here (Some enemies double Steel Axe Nolan), so Laura’s healing > the others. Edward is only even in the same tier because he at least gets a Wind Edge in this chapter and also has a Steel Sword. Not much else has changed.

1-3

h4x

Sothe

Chuck Norris

Nolan

Just can’t live up to Chuck Norris, or h4x for that matter

Micaiah

Laura

Aran

Ilyana

Edward

Leonardo

Micaiah can one-shot some of the enemies here, including the boss, so she’s better than the rest. Laura’s healing is very nice since only Sothe can be safe taking more than a few hits. Ilyana’s 1-2 range with magic is nice since most units are low Res and locked to 1 or 2 range. Aran can take one, maybe two hits, and for some reason I tend to have issues with him hitting on this chapter, especially with a Javelin.* Edward > Leonardo because of a good amount of Archers that he attacks without counter and generally starting to have better offense and defense now, especially with a ranged option (even if it sucks, it’s there)

*See post #10

1-4

Bruce Willis

Sothe

Not Bruce Willis

Micaiah

Laura

Nolan

Ilyana

Leonardo

Edward

Aran

Fail

Meg

Sothe has Beastkiller and the most reliable durability. No questions there.

I’ll probably be yelled at for Nolan and Aran’s positioning, but let me explain. An unlucky Nolan that hasn’t had a chance to get Speed is doubled by Cats and therefore 2-rounded, and he’s being 2-rounded by Tigers anyway, so his durability is no longer so awesome. Micaiah is better for awesome Thani pwnage and possibly Sacrifice, Laura for near necessary healing utility.

Ranged units generally have an advantage here because every enemy is locked to one range, so even though Edward and Aran have ranged options, they both suck at it, so Ilyana and Leonardo are probably a bigger help. Then it comes down to Edward vs. Aran. Both are 2-rounded, but Edward at least has a chance to dodge and faces no crit chances, unlike Aran. He also doubles Tigers and possibly Cats for what it’s worth.

I dare someone to challenge Meg’s position.

1-5

Top

Volug

Sothe

High

Nolan

Mid

Micaiah

Laura

Aran

Ilyana

Leonardo

Edward

Bad

Meg

Lookie here, Sothe has competition. It’s debatable on this chapter, but I find Volug better for his higher move which is very nice for saving Jill’s suicidal ass.

Nolan’s awesome durability has come back, though I’m not quite sure if he’s still good enough to deserve his own tier. I’ll wait for further input there.

The rest is much the same as on the last one, except that Aran has some actual durability now. However, he’s still 2 rounded by a few enemies and 3 rounded by others, so Micaiah’s awesome player phase (plus being able to take on the mages to the east better than anyone) and Laura’s healing probably beat him out there. Then there’s a lack of ranged enemies and a ledge to take advantage of which makes Ilyana and Leonardo > Edward, who’s durability still fails.

Meg isn’t as fail as she was last chapter, so I don’t know if she deserves her own tier, but she’s still sucking very hard.

1-6-1

Jesus

Tauroneo

Awesome

Volug

Sothe

Zihark

Pretty Great

Jill

Nolan

Okay

Micaiah

Aran

Laura

Leonardo

Edward

Ilyana

Meg

Tauroneo’s placement is not debatable. He is the Black Knight on this chapter.

Once again, Volug’s high move and durability puts him above others. Sothe is statistically to Zihark right now (I’ll pull up the numbers if you don’t believe me) and isn’t hindered by terrain, and also has A-Micaiah support on his side.

I’ve put Jill higher than Nolan because of flight, Speed, and possible transfer. Her flight is especially helpful for reaching those pesky Pegasi immediately, a few which she can one-round simply with a forged Iron Axe, and the rest with a Speed/Strength transfer. Then there’s the terrain which she is unhindered by.

There are a good amount of Knights here that Micaiah can one-shot and she does massive damage to everyone, so she’s good. Aran’s durability is starting to climb to where 70% Def growth should be taking him. Laura’s healing utility isn’t as useful with Tauroneo around and she’s easy picking for the Pegasi, so she got lowered a bit. Leonardo has the nice ability to one-shot any Pegasi he finds. Edward is doubling fairly reliably and dodging on occasion, but Ilyana really hasn’t gotten much better, and her accuracy is beginning to suck as well. Meg is less fail than before, so I think she’s worthy of the same tier at this point.

1-6-2

Jesus

Tauroneo

Awesome

Volug

Sothe

Zihark

Pretty Great

Jill

Nolan

Okay

Micaiah

Aran

Laura

Edward

Ilyana

Leonardo

Meg

Tauroneo is still Jesus.

Volug’s win is more substantial here. He’s the best at saving Fiona and her merry band of retards for extra BEXP. Sothe is pretty good at this too, and he still has the same advantages over Zihark right now.

Jill’s flight is also nice here, since it allows her to jump from side to side with ease. And she still has a Speed advantage on Nolan.

Micaiah has lots of ponies to one-shot this time around. Aran’s growing durability allows him to actually semi-tank here, and his damage output is getting good as well. Laura’s healing is still nice, but the horsies do pose something of a threat to her. Meanwhile, Edward’s offense is getting better and his avoid is starting to be something worth mentioning even if it’s not very reliable. Leonardo no longer does any bonus damage, so there’s nothing except possibly accuracy making him better than Ilyana, but I don’t find that to be enough. Meg…yeah.

1-7

Awesome

Muarim

Volug

Sothe

Tormod

Zihark

Pretty Great

Nolan

Jill

Vika

Okay

Micaiah

Laura

Aran

Edward

Leonardo

Ilyana

Meg

Est

Fiona

Since there’s nothing around yet to keep Muarim transformed, his position is debatable, but I figured his pure ownage when transformed is enough to have him that high. The rest is similar to before. I’ve got Tormod > Zihark because of similar durability (-1 Defense to +4 HP) but better offense on Tormod’s part (Still doubling/better range). Although the possibility of a Nolan support on Zihark’s part might be enough to put him higher.

Nolan has taken over Jill because Jill’s flight is no longer a big advantage and Nolan is better with the Hammer. He also likely has a C Zihark by now, whereas Jill is not likely to have gotten a partner yet unless it’s Zihark himself. Vika would be higher but she can’t keep herself transformed very well.

Micaiah has a lot of armors to one-shot again, including the boss, and she’s also great at drawing in enemy mages with her overkill Resistance. The rest isn’t much better than previously, except that Laura isn’t in as much danger so she can heal more safely.

Fiona sucks massive cock on this chapter. No doubt about that.

1-8

Jesus

Nailah

Awesome

Rafiel

Muarim

Volug

Zihark

Tormod

Sothe

Pretty Great

Vika

Okay

Nolan

Micaiah

Laura

Edward

Ilyana

Meg

Aran

Leonardo

Nailah deserves her own tier for being invincible even when rescuing.

Rafiel gets to be high for obvious refreshing reasons. Muarim can now stay transformed, so that’s very nice. I’ve got Zihark and Tormod higher this time because they can do bonus damage to those pesky Dragon enemies on this map, thus helping with BEXP gain.

Nolan > Vika because of not needing to transform with only one Olivi Grass that Muarim more likely has. Although Vika is forced while Nolan isn’t, so… It’s too bad Jill isn’t here. ): Post #16

Laura gets bonus points here because enemies have poison weapons, so healing + restoring is a major point in her favor. Micaiah can do it too, but at the cost of her own durability. Edward, Meg, and Ilyana get points for bonus damage against Dragons. Aran is worse here because he can’t dodge a thing, and that’s starting to really show against poison weapons and magic enemies.

1-9

Jesus

Black Knight

Disciple

Micaiah

No explanation needed.

1-E

Jesus

Nailah

Black Knight

Awesome

Rafiel

Muarim

Volug

Zihark

Sothe

Tormod

Pretty Great

Nolan

Jill

Vika

Okay

Micaiah

Laura

Aran

Edward

Leonardo

Meg

Ilyana

Fiona

Nailah’s 9 move > Black Knight’s range.

The competition between Zihark and Sothe is tough. I put Zihark higher for the possibility of EarthxEarth providing fairly reliable avoid. Everything else is fairly similar to before.

Jill is still restricted here, so I put Nolan above her again. Vika still has transformation issues coupled with a lot of bow users on this chapter.

Jarod’s authority means Micaiah’s occasional one-shotting/healing and Laura’s healing will be very nice to have for everyone except those in Jesus tier and transformed Muarim. Aran has good durability, Edward doubled and dodges on occasion, Leonardo’s range is nice for not eating counters, Meg is starting to not fail so much, Ilyana hasn’t gotten much better and her accuracy is crap. If Fiona is being used (which she is for the purpose of this list) I assume she was given a lot of abuse on 1-7 and so isn’t failing hard enough to deserve her own tier.

I don't expect it to be perfect, so rip it apart.

I'll get to work on part 2 soon. I can only imagine what part 4 will be like.

Edited March 2, 2009 by Red Fox of Fire

[Lord Raven]

Sothe > Volug in 1-5; if I recall correctly, Volug actually does less damage, lacks 1-2 range (for attacking things on top of a cliff or something, even if it is just a bronze knife), and evades less than Sothe does. Also, fire weakness sucks.

[Florete]

Sothe > Volug in 1-5; if I recall correctly, Volug actually does less damage, lacks 1-2 range (for attacking things on top of a cliff or something, even if it is just a bronze knife), and evades less than Sothe does. Also, fire weakness sucks.

Both one-round every enemy anyway. Volug can go north, save Jill, and only have to face 1 Fire Mage. Although you have a point with the range aspect of things. I'll see what others have to say on it.

Edited March 2, 2009 by Red Fox of Fire

[Lord Raven]

Yeah, Volug definitely isn't killing some of those Myrmidon reinforcements (I'm pretty sure they have a bunch of AS) and he can probably easily fight off the right side.

[Fruitloop Multipuck]

Transfer boni? Uh, I'm taking issue with those.

[Florete]

Yeah, Volug definitely isn't killing some of those Myrmidon reinforcements (I'm pretty sure they have a bunch of AS) and he can probably easily fight off the right side.

He does. He has 19 AS. Enemy Myrmidons only get up to 15 AS.

[Lord Raven]

Oh, I thought he had less. Nevermind that point.

[Original Alear]

Are there any hard mode enemy stats on this forum? Anyway, for now I refer to the gamefaqs hard mode data

I am only doing my first hard playthrough now so I don't know much.

I agree that Volug > Sothe on 1-5. It may be worth noting that unless you give him an energy drop he will only one round, not one hit, enemy flame mages. But there is only one to worry about until turns 5 or 6 (wystan, and I think a sidekick, will be up there around then).

He also doubles Tigers and possibly Cats for what it’s worth.

I'm not so sure about this. What level do you get Edward to at this point? To double cats he needs to be ~level 14 with 18 spd, that sounds like more than he deserves.

He doubles some tigers at level 9 and all of them at level 11. Mine was 8 so I guess I can believe this (being as almost the only use I got out of him in 1-3 was to wrath counter the axe-dude) and I only got through that chapter on turn 12 I think anyway (no early clear BEXP = phail). But up to 14 seems like overusing him.

Is the point here to be using all the DB somewhat equally or something? Or to rank characters as though you were using them? I don't see how Meg, for instance, moves up. She is one rounded by some of the tigers in 1-4 (any 12 AS ones) and doesn't deserve to be fighting them for EXP anyway. In 1-5 her armor slowness is not too helpful, and unless you give her the wind edge that probably belongs on edward she won't be scoring any kills off that ledge (which you only have a few turns on anyway). I honestly don't see her getting any levels without favoritism, so why would she be better for 1-6? Maybe not as bad but I think she would still be significantly worse than other characters as there are a significant number of enemies who can one-round her. Steel axe fighters, steel bow archers, steel lance soldiers, some steel sword myrmids and at least one hand axe armor can double with over 21 might per hit which is enough to kill her at base stats and I don't see her higher than base stats.

In fact, I see using meg on 1-6-1 as being harder than on 1-4. In 1-4 it is extremely easy to regulate where the laguz can attack, so it is not a difficult task to at least keep her alive, and give her exposure in situations where she can't be one-rounded. With lots of peg knights, 2 range units and open ground it should be significantly tougher to do so on 1-6, and she's not as easily rescued as a character like micaiah.

Anyway good choice on tier names.

Laura's weakness to peg knights is kind of insubstantial with Taureono around. Just have him pick her up if you're about to hit a big peg spawn.

I think Micaiah may be worthy of a separate tier in 1-3, if I had been going for BEXP for clear turns I see thani as being essential (killing boss after sothe steals, killing an armor right before that) to getting through quickly.

Edited March 2, 2009 by SeverIan

[Florete]

Are there any hard mode enemy stats on this forum? Anyway, for now I refer to the gamefaqs hard mode data

This is all we've got. It should be the same stats from GFaqs.

I'm not so sure about this. What level do you get Edward to at this point? To double cats he needs to be ~level 14 with 18 spd, that sounds like more than he deserves.

You're right. I hadn't really looked into that. It doesn't change his position for 1-4, though.

Is the point here to be using all the DB somewhat equally or something? Or to rank characters as though you were using them?

The latter. If we'd been using Aran up to this point, how good would he be now?

I don't see how Meg, for instance, moves up.

She never moves very far....Yeah, she sucks in her first few chapters pretty hard, which is why she's so low in them, but her performance in those chapters have no bearing on her later performance for the purpose of this list. What happened happened, so we look at how good she is now.

Anyway good choice on tier names.

Thanks. ^_^

Laura's weakness to peg knights is kind of insubstantial with Taureono around. Just have him pick her up if you're about to hit a big peg spawn.

Heh, I never thought about that. Still, it doesn't really change much because it means she needs help to survive and will be useless for a turn.

I think Micaiah may be worthy of a separate tier in 1-3, if I had been going for BEXP for clear turns I see thani as being essential (killing boss after sothe steals, killing an armor right before that) to getting through quickly.

Hm, I don't know. Her durability really fails so it's all based on player phase offense and your ability to keep her protected. Then again, only Nolan and Sothe have anything to really talk about on the enemy phase on 1-3.

It's possible though.

Edited March 2, 2009 by Red Fox of Fire

[Progenitus]

Exists

Micaiah

Edward

Leonardo

Some might question Micaiah > Edward, but she has great Player Phase offense that allows Edward to kill without taking a hit and Sacrifice which can give Edward a player phase he’d otherwise use to heal himself. I could, however, see Edward > Micaiah if someone questions it, so this isn’t set in stone.

5 of the 8 bandits (including pugo) have 11 att, so they actually miss 3HKOing Edward (leave him with 1 HP), while they cleanly 2HKO Micaiah.

2 have 12, so they do 3HKO, but then again Micaiah gets 2HKO'd.

Pugo has 19 att, so Micaiah gets OHKO'd and Leo can't counter, so this leaves only Edward to lure him in.

Also, Edward can activate wrath in this chapter. This is really funny on Pugo because he loses like 75% of his HP in one blow, which automatically puts him into wrath range.

Edward is 1-P's Nolan, minus the whole 1-1 actually being slightly difficult part, but Edward's the only guy who can tank in this chapter, so he's easily better than Micaiah.

1-3

h4x

Sothe

Chuck Norris

Nolan

Just can’t live up to Chuck Norris, or h4x for that matter

Micaiah

Laura

Ilyana

Aran

Edward

Leonardo

Aran is the one of three guys who doesn't get 2HKO'd by the entire map, yet you have him as the third worst unit?

FYI, Aran and Nolan are basically equal in tanking (6 HP vs 1-2 def). And their offense is arguable, because Nolan wins att while Aran wins hit. The only enemy type that Nolan clearly beats Aran in offense is against armors, who get 4 or 5HKO'd by Nolan anyway and you're better off thanibombing them to death. The only reason why Nolan > Aran in 1-3 is because he exists for 1-2 more turns.

No, this doesn't mean Nolan should move down, because it's clear he's better than people like Micaiah and Laura who get one rounded by like the entire map, Ilyana who has hit just as low as Nolan's only now she loses like 80% of her HP per hit from every enemy in the chapter, and Edward/Leo who just fail miserably. It's moar like Aran moves above Micaiah.

1-4

I’ll probably be yelled at for Nolan and Aran’s positioning, but let me explain. An unlucky Nolan that hasn’t had a chance to get Speed is doubled by Cats and therefore 2-rounded, and he’s being 2-rounded by Tigers anyway, so his durability is no longer so awesome. Micaiah is better for awesome Thani pwnage and possibly Sacrifice, Laura for near necessary healing utility.

Nolan and Aran are BARELY 2HKO'd. That's a huge step from "lol i lose like 90% of my HP in one hit" 2HKO'd, because Nolan and Aran have a billion ways to improve their performance and not get 2HKO'd, e.g. dracoshield, BEXP, leveling up midway through the chapter, leveling up a 2nd time, etc.

Also, Nolan with +spd gets like 4 or 5 rounded by cats, and he has a much greater chance of getting spd than not getting it. And with a forged axe (+3 mt iron is cheaper than a normal steel per use, and you can always make it better because iron axe is dirt cheap), he's matching her damage output.

Also, Sothe gets 3HKO'd by most tigers. Clearly, it's horrible that my guys are barely getting 2HKO'd, right?

Ranged units generally have an advantage here because every enemy is locked to one range,

Tanky units generally have an advantage here because the enemies pwn the crap out of everyone on the team, so the units who can actually take hits are better.

so even though Edward and Aran have ranged options, they both suck at it, so Ilyana and Leonardo are probably a bigger help. Then it comes down to Edward vs. Aran. Both are 2-rounded, but Edward at least has a chance to dodge and faces no crit chances, unlike Aran. He also doubles Tigers and possibly Cats for what it’s worth.

Aran faces like 1 crit against the enemies, and Edward is facing like 80-90 hit. lolwtfrofl @ that mattering.

Nolan’s awesome durability has come back, though I’m not quite sure if he’s still good enough to deserve his own tier. I’ll wait for further input there.

Indeed, that is not true. Aran is winning durability by now, even if by just a small amount.

13/0 Nolan, B Edward or something, 31.4 HP, 11.4 def, 4.6 res

10/0 Aran, C Laura, 25.5 HP, 14.1 def, 2.75 res

3ish def is better than 6 HP.

The only argument left for Nolan is that Aran gets doubled by myrms, but there's only like 4 in the chapter that can do that. Also, Aran takes about the same damage as Nolan does, EVEN including the fact that he just got doubled. And on the flip side, Aran sees a bigger bonus if we give him a seraph robe or dracoshield.

The rest is much the same as on the last one, except that Aran has some actual durability now. However, he’s still 2 rounded by a few enemies and 3 rounded by others, so Micaiah’s awesome player phase (plus being able to take on the mages to the east better than anyone) and Laura’s healing probably beat him out there.

10/0 Micaiah gets OHKO'd by every single fighter in the chapter, plus over half the soldiers, plus over half the archers, PLUS doubled by basically every single myrm. IN ADDITION, she has like 10 spd, and the enemies hover around 13, meaning if she gets slightly unlucky in speed, they double AND OHKO her. And with an amazing 60% combined HP + def growth, she needs a lot more levels to stop getting OHKO'd.

This is lolbad. And considering Aran doesn't do much less damage per hit, it's very clear she's worse.

Laura still gets one rounded by everything, so she's definitely worse than a tanker.

[Florete]

It's moar like Aran moves above Micaiah.

I can agree with the rest but I'd say Micaiah's player phase > Aran's stuff. One-shotting a lot of enemies, including the boss, and dealing massive damage to everything else is pretty amazing.

Nolan and Aran are BARELY 2HKO'd. That's a huge step from "lol i lose like 90% of my HP in one hit" 2HKO'd, because Nolan and Aran have a billion ways to improve their performance and not get 2HKO'd, e.g. dracoshield, BEXP, leveling up midway through the chapter, leveling up a 2nd time, etc.

BEXP? There's like, none at this point in the game. And by the time a level is acquired within the chapter, the initial enemies should be done with. And I'm not assuming use of any stat boosters, especially a Dracoshield on Aran. If that thing is getting used, I don't see how the guy with 70% growth gets it.

In other words, 2HKO'd is still 2HKO'd.

And a level up for Aran probably won't change anything for him unless he gets Speed or Hp + defense, and it will only protect him from Cats.

Also, Sothe gets 3HKO'd by most tigers. Clearly, it's horrible that my guys are barely getting 2HKO'd, right?

When it's by Tigers and Cats for the rest, then yes.

Tanky units generally have an advantage here because the enemies pwn the crap out of everyone on the team, so the units who can actually take hits are better.

The units who allow melee units to kill without taking a counter also have a pretty big advantage, especially since there's no one who is especially tanky for this map.

Aran faces like 1 crit against the enemies, and Edward is facing like 80-90 hit. lolwtfrofl @ that mattering.

When there's nothing else differentiating the two of them, it matters. Edward can also have a Nolan/Leonardo support at this time. Aran might have Laura, but it won't do anything for him really.

13/0 Nolan, B Edward or something, 31.4 HP, 11.4 def, 4.6 res

10/0 Aran, C Laura, 25.5 HP, 14.1 def, 2.75 res

Aran got three levels in two maps? I know one was full of laguz, but that still feels high. Nolan's level feels high as well.

This is lolbad. And considering Aran doesn't do much less damage per hit, it's very clear she's worse.

Possible, not very clear. Aran's not doing much less damage per hit?

4x Fighter lvl 11 (Steel Axe)
HP 30, Atk 26, AS 12, Hit 104, Avo 31, DEF 8, RES 3, Crit 5, Ddg 7

Level 10 Micaiah does 19. Level 10 Aran w/Steel Lance does 14, w/Iron Lance does 11. That's a difference.

Laura still gets one rounded by everything, so she's definitely worse than a tanker.

She keeps the team, including that tanker, alive. I'd say she's at least on par.

[charmander6000]

Is this list on hard or normal mode? If this is normal mode I think you're being a bit tough of Aran/Ilyana.

I've also decided to take the rankings from each chapter and combine them. If a chapter had 5 characters the best character would get 5 points and so on. I also gave extra points if a unit was in a higher tier.

Top

Sothe - 120

High

Nolan - 99

Volug - 97

Upper Mid

Micaiah - 81

Zihark - 74

Laura - 65

Mid

Muarim - 56

Edward - 49

Aran - 48

Jill - 47

Naliah - 43

Tormod - 43

Leonardo - 41

Rafiel - 38

Ilyana - 37

Tauroneo - 34

Vika - 33

Lower Mid

Black Knight - 26

Meg - 20

Low

Fiona - 4

As you can see the list is heavily based on availability (Jill, Naliah) and the amount of units per chapter (BK). Of course I'm just using a simple point formula.

[Original Alear]

Do bosses stats vary like normal enemy stats do? I was going to make a post about how this is/should be a hard mode tier list because meg doesn't deserve her own tier of badness on normal (not regularly one-rounded, I think the tigers on normal don't get to an AS of 12).

However, this seems more important just because I didn't realize it happened, and I don't think anyone really cares about Meg anyway.

Interceptor's hard mode stats list Pain as having 26 might and 10 AS and Agony as having 24 might and 12 AS. I remember this as being the case when I played through the chapter days ago (on hard mode).

Meanwhile the boss stats here list Pain as having 28 might (or rather as having 18 str, 10 more with the fang) and 12 AS and Agony as having 26 might and 14 AS.

I haven't looked at all the stats (too lazy) but it seems that SF has stronger tiger bosses than interceptor does. I am pretty sure my recent playthrough matched interceptor's as far as AS scores go because I remember that one of the two bosses had only 10 AS.

I was too lazy to look at every boss but I glance indicates that "story important" bosses (Jarod) have constant stats between SF and Interceptor's list.

Anyway, has the difference between the two lists been noticed before? Is it the result of a mistake? Slight variations in the RNG for certain bosses? JP VS USA differences perhaps?

Is it a 1-4 thing? Wystan seems to have the same stats on SF and Interceptor's list, as did Zaitan (too lazy to check 1-3 atm).

Edited March 2, 2009 by SeverIan

[Vykan12]

Note a forged iron knife has 7 Mt (one less than a steel dagger), meaning Sothe has 25 Mt at base level while Volug has 25 as well. Tying Volug in atk (possibly beating if Sothe leveled up) while beating him in spd and having 1-2 range is a lot to pit against more movement, though I suppose Volug is easily pulling ahead once he starts to support.

[Florete]

Is this list on hard or normal mode? If this is normal mode I think you're being a bit tough of Aran/Ilyana.

I should have specified. It's hard mode. If it were normal, Edward would be doing a lot better as well.

Do bosses stats vary like normal enemy stats do? I was going to make a post about how this is/should be a hard mode tier list because meg doesn't deserve her own tier of badness on normal (not regularly one-rounded, I think the tigers on normal don't get to an AS of 12).

However, this seems more important just because I didn't realize it happened, and I don't think anyone really cares about Meg anyway.

Interceptor's hard mode stats list Pain as having 26 might and 10 AS and Agony as having 24 might and 12 AS. I remember this as being the case when I played through the chapter days ago (on hard mode).

Meanwhile the boss stats here list Pain as having 28 might (or rather as having 18 str, 10 more with the fang) and 12 AS and Agony as having 26 might and 14 AS.

I haven't looked at all the stats (too lazy) but it seems that SF has stronger tiger bosses than interceptor does. I am pretty sure my recent playthrough matched interceptor's as far as AS scores go because I remember that one of the two bosses had only 10 AS.

I was too lazy to look at every boss but I glance indicates that "story important" bosses (Jarod) have constant stats between SF and Interceptor's list.

Anyway, has the difference between the two lists been noticed before? Is it the result of a mistake? Slight variations in the RNG for certain bosses? JP VS USA differences perhaps?

Is it a 1-4 thing? Wystan seems to have the same stats on SF and Interceptor's list, as did Zaitan (too lazy to check 1-3 atm).

That's an interesting observation, one I've never heard of at least. I think we ought to go with Interceptor's stats for now until we get more clarity on the subject.

Note a forged iron knife has 7 Mt (one less than a steel dagger), meaning Sothe has 25 Mt at base level while Volug has 25 as well. Tying Volug in atk (possibly beating if Sothe leveled up) while beating him in spd and having 1-2 range is a lot to pit against more movement, though I suppose Volug is easily pulling ahead once he starts to support.

That's all true, but it only starts to matter when Sothe one-rounds enemies Volug doesn't, and I know that doesn't right away (not sure when it happens though). The range can only really be an advantage for countering on the enemy phase, since Volug can reach an enemy 10 spaces away from him while Sothe can only reach 9, so the advantage is very minor at best. Then Volug still wins overall durability. And, for whatever it may mean, Volug's weapon didn't cost us anything, while Sothe's forged Knife might have cost us quite a bit. (not sure of the exact price)

[Paperblade]

LOLTRANSFERS. Yes, I'm going to play through 30 chapters of FE9 for Jill to get +2 Str/Spd/Def. Transfers would be worthwhile maybe if we had a file where everyone had their perfect average stats and all levels with Knight Ward etc. etc., but that would take forever without hax, and if we were factoring in hax, then we might as well just rank units by how many chapters they're in. And go live on a farm. Ruled by pigs.

Anyway, Jill can't use her flying to its fullest because going off on her own tends to get her killed because she has 24HP/13 Defense/oneroundedbyElthunderMages. For reference, this means that every enemy on the map that's not a Pegasus is either 2HKOing her or leaves her with about 2HP. 20 attack Myrms 3HKO her.

That's pretty bad. She's not going to get a ton of levels off of the pegs either, because they aren't just going to suicide on her, so in 1-6-2 she still fails to one round but is only 3HKO'd because knights suck, but there's a swarm of them from the west (and up north there's fire mages which 2HKO). The knights pretty much rape everyone on your team that's not Tauroneo/Aran/Volug though (and Volug has to go save noob Fiona for BEXPs), so yeah.

Flying is nice, but at best it means that Jill can canto out of attack range to behind someone who doesn't die in 2 hits.

Nolan > Vika because of not needing to transform with only one Olivi Grass that Muarim more likely has. Although Vika is forced while Nolan isn’t, so… It’s too bad Jill isn’t here. ):

Vika > Nolan because Vika can save the east side villagers by killing the Bandit and luring the wyvern to Tormod. All Nolan can do is what basically every other melee beorc unit is doing: pwn mages, get movement pwned by thickets, and suck at bandits threateningly. Except Nolan has whoamg Earth.

Laura gets bonus points here because enemies have poison weapons, so healing + restoring is a major point in her favor. Micaiah can do it too, but at the cost of her own durability.

Micaiah goes from being 2HKO'd and doubled to 2HKO'd and doubled. Even if she somehow wasn't being one rounded, Sacrifice would still put her durability to as bad as Laura's, only Micaiah can still attack and has a better affinity and doesn't take up a unit slot.

Edward, Meg, and Ilyana get points for bonus damage against Dragons. Aran is worse here because he can’t dodge a thing, and that’s starting to really show against poison weapons and magic enemies.

LOL, "Wyverns matter gaiz". There's 2 wyverns in the entire map (If the turn 7 reinforcements spawn, I'm sorry, you've failed, max BEXP was turn 6 and you're inefficient), and if one isn't killed by Tormod on turn 2 then he's going to go off killing civilians and pwn your BEXP and then maybe fly over and go "Hey sup Laura" and kill her. The other is a reinforcement right by Tormod's starting position. If any of those units is actually going to run down there to fight that wyvern then the player is just terrible. Not bad, not mediocre, terrible. The chapter has a 6 turn BEXP limit, I can't afford to give bonus points to units because they can run across the map, through thickets, to kill ONE ENEMY that both units that are ALREADY THERE can do already. It's mind boggling that you think this actually matters enough to make lolMeg or even worse, Ilyana, who's 2HKO'd by basically every physical unit on the map above Aran, who OHKOs the Mages that you're shitting your pants about.

Also, lol@Aran "can't dodge a thing" to put him below garbage like Edward since Wyrmslayer argument was clearly made by someone whose only recollection of the chapter is "Here there be dragons".

Level 15 Edward has 50 Avoid.

Level 15 Aran has 35 Avoid.

That's a pretty big difference, but Aran's affinity boosts Avoid, so with a B support or something it's down to like a 7-10 point difference. That's liek 70 vs. 77 displayed hit vs. Mages and Bandits. And then if you go "But that's overlevel'd", lol Edward has a higher Avoid growth, it only closes the gap.

And then there's the fact that Aran takes hit better than Edward anyway (And they will be taking hits liek 85% of the time because Edward's avoid advantage isn't significant enough for me to give half a fuck). Aran has 17.6-18.6 Defense (depending on whether he has a Def support or not), whereas Edward has 9.9-10.9. That's like an 8 point lead. Aran takes like 4 damage from 22 attack Venin Axe Bandits, Edward takes 11. Edward would have to be dodging THREE TIMES AS MUCH to make up for this difference (their HP is liek identical, 28 vs. 28.5). And then we go onto the 25 attack Soldiers, who borderline 2HKO Edward (if he has 29HP he lives, otherwise dead, and I gave him a full Defense support for 11 Defense). Those same enemies 4HKO Aran. But it's okay, because they have 65 displayed Hit vs. Edward and 75 vs. Aran. Clearly.

Aran also leads Res by 2 (5-6 vs. 3-4), which means that the boss 2HKOs Edward and not him. It also means that with a Seraph Robe the generics will fail to 3HKO Aran but will still be 3HKOing nub Edward. Additionally, with a Pure Water, Aran is 4HKO'd by generic mages, whereas Edward can still be 3HKO'd without a defense partner (or after just 1-2 turns). Aran also borderline one rounds Mages (need 28-30 attack to one round, Level 15 Aran with no attack affinity partner has 29 with the Silver Lance). Since Aran can OHKO some Mages, this means that if one attacks him and on the player phase he's like "Oh screw you bro" we can OHKO it, and if it's one of those douches with 24HP/6 Defense, we can be like "Oh just have Aran attack something else".

Meg is lulz and has terrible move in Thickets (2 spaces per turn vs. 3 for everyone else), although with a Pure Water she's pretty much invincible vs. Mages. Too bad that unlike Edward and Aran she has no chance of one rounding them since she can't double and has poor Str and is locked to Swords. She does have pretty okay Avoid (45 vs. liek 40 for Aran) and she and her support partner won't have hit issues even with Wind Edges or whatever, which is nice, but she's like constantly behind the team. Unfortunately pretty much everything on the map 3HKOs her (Mages take liek 7 rounds if she just Pure Water'd, 3-4HKO for the boss though if she has the +7 Res from it).

Aran actually beats Ilyana in Avoid (and that's like, Level 18 Ilyana) thanks to his affinity. And then he's not 2HKO'd by everything on the map (20/1 unsupported Ilyana is borderline 2HKO'd by the 22 attack Bandits). And before you go "but 1-2 range", Aran can hide behind Zihark and Nolan and throw Javelins. He doesn't HAVE to, but he can. Ilyana (as well as Micaiah, who is perpetually above Aran despite Aran with Forged Iron or the Silver Lance having only slightly less attack than Nolan, who is apparently so much better than Micaiah as to warrant a tier gap) has no choice.

Also, as to why give Aran a Dracoshield. More defense when you already have good Defense is good. Durability increases exponentially, not with diminishing returns like attack. 2 more Defense when you're already taking single digit damage means you're far more likely to survive an extra round or 2 against pretty much all enemy types as opposed to giving it to some failure like Micaiah or Laura who's going to get one rounded anyway. Aran doesn't cap Defense until liek Level 20 anyway, and on HM you're probably going to want to Seal people prior to 20 because it's unlikely that you got that much EXP prior to 1-E while getting max BEXP unless you only used like 1 dude. And having Paragon/Resolve/etc. on Nolan or Aran or Jill or whoever is a much bigger boost to your performance.

Edited March 2, 2009 by Paperblade

[Florete]

First things first: Chill out. It's just a game. Your tone makes it sound like your career depends on being right in this argument.

LOLTRANSFERS. Yes, I'm going to play through 30 chapters of FE9 for Jill to get +2 Str/Spd/Def. Transfers would be worthwhile maybe if we had a file where everyone had their perfect average stats and all levels with Knight Ward etc. etc., but that would take forever without hax, and if we were factoring in hax, then we might as well just rank units by how many chapters they're in. And go live on a farm. Ruled by pigs.

Hey, guess what? Nolan can't get transfers.

Anyway, Jill can't use her flying to its fullest because going off on her own tends to get her killed because she has 24HP/13 Defense/oneroundedbyElthunderMages. For reference, this means that every enemy on the map that's not a Pegasus is either 2HKOing her or leaves her with about 2HP. 20 attack Myrms 3HKO her.

She doesn't have to "go off on her own" to make use of her flight. Unless she rescues and drops someone, she's the first one to be able to reach any reinforcement peggies. She's also unhindered by terrain, meaning she can move faster if needed.

Flying is nice, but at best it means that Jill can canto out of attack range to behind someone who doesn't die in 2 hits.

This also allows someone else to come in and get the kill, or for her to be out of the way of anything else.

Vika > Nolan because Vika can save the east side villagers by killing the Bandit and luring the wyvern to Tormod. All Nolan can do is what basically every other melee beorc unit is doing: pwn mages, get movement pwned by thickets, and suck at bandits threateningly. Except Nolan has whoamg Earth.

Good point.

Micaiah goes from being 2HKO'd and doubled to 2HKO'd and doubled. Even if she somehow wasn't being one rounded, Sacrifice would still put her durability to as bad as Laura's, only Micaiah can still attack and has a better affinity and doesn't take up a unit slot.

Makes sense.

LOL, "Wyverns matter gaiz". There's 2 wyverns in the entire map (If the turn 7 reinforcements spawn, I'm sorry, you've failed, max BEXP was turn 6 and you're inefficient), and if one isn't killed by Tormod on turn 2 then he's going to go off killing civilians and pwn your BEXP and then maybe fly over and go "Hey sup Laura" and kill her. The other is a reinforcement right by Tormod's starting position. If any of those units is actually going to run down there to fight that wyvern then the player is just terrible. Not bad, not mediocre, terrible. The chapter has a 6 turn BEXP limit, I can't afford to give bonus points to units because they can run across the map, through thickets, to kill ONE ENEMY that both units that are ALREADY THERE can do already. It's mind boggling that you think this actually matters enough to make lolMeg or even worse, Ilyana, who's 2HKO'd by basically every physical unit on the map above Aran, who OHKOs the Mages that you're shitting your pants about.

I don't know about everyone else, but I only assume max BEXP when it's reasonably easy to do so without overusing uber units like you would need to in this. (I lol at 3-8's turn requirement of 20 when it's easily done in <10) And I'm pretty sure Dragonsknights go after prisoners before going after Laura anyway.

Also, lol@Aran "can't dodge a thing" to put him below garbage like Edward since Wyrmslayer argument was clearly made by someone whose only recollection of the chapter is "Here there be dragons".

There are enough for it to be an advantage in his favor. If there was only 1, then no, I don't think he'd be higher.

Level 15 Edward has 50 Avoid.

Level 15 Aran has 35 Avoid.

That's a pretty big difference, but Aran's affinity boosts Avoid, so with a B support or something it's down to like a 7-10 point difference. That's liek 70 vs. 77 displayed hit vs. Mages and Bandits. And then if you go "But that's overlevel'd", lol Edward has a higher Avoid growth, it only closes the gap.

Edward can also get an avoid support. It doesn't give as much bonuses as it does for Aran, but he uses it better because he has actual existing avoid. In fact, it's easier for him as well. He can get a Nolan support, for example, sooner and faster than Aran can.

And then there's the fact that Aran takes hit better than Edward anyway (And they will be taking hits liek 85% of the time because Edward's avoid advantage isn't significant enough for me to give half a fuck). Aran has 17.6-18.6 Defense (depending on whether he has a Def support or not), whereas Edward has 9.9-10.9. That's like an 8 point lead. Aran takes like 4 damage from 22 attack Venin Axe Bandits, Edward takes 11. Edward would have to be dodging THREE TIMES AS MUCH to make up for this difference (their HP is liek identical, 28 vs. 28.5). And then we go onto the 25 attack Soldiers, who borderline 2HKO Edward (if he has 29HP he lives, otherwise dead, and I gave him a full Defense support for 11 Defense). Those same enemies 4HKO Aran. But it's okay, because they have 65 displayed Hit vs. Edward and 75 vs. Aran. Clearly.

I'd say your levels are a bit high, but otherwise you're right.

Meg is lulz and has terrible move in Thickets (2 spaces per turn vs. 3 for everyone else), although with a Pure Water she's pretty much invincible vs. Mages. Too bad that unlike Edward and Aran she has no chance of one rounding them since she can't double and has poor Str and is locked to Swords. She does have pretty okay Avoid (45 vs. liek 40 for Aran) and she and her support partner won't have hit issues even with Wind Edges or whatever, which is nice, but she's like constantly behind the team. Unfortunately pretty much everything on the map 3HKOs her (Mages take liek 7 rounds if she just Pure Water'd, 3-4HKO for the boss though if she has the +7 Res from it).

Out of curiosity, what level were you assuming for her when you got this?

Also, as to why give Aran a Dracoshield. More defense when you already have good Defense is good. Durability increases exponentially, not with diminishing returns like attack. 2 more Defense when you're already taking single digit damage means you're far more likely to survive an extra round or 2 against pretty much all enemy types as opposed to giving it to some failure like Micaiah or Laura who's going to get one rounded anyway. Aran doesn't cap Defense until liek Level 20 anyway, and on HM you're probably going to want to Seal people prior to 20 because it's unlikely that you got that much EXP prior to 1-E while getting max BEXP unless you only used like 1 dude. And having Paragon/Resolve/etc. on Nolan or Aran or Jill or whoever is a much bigger boost to your performance.

It sounds as though you're assuming not giving it to Aran means giving it to Laura or Micaiah, which is not the case. Nolan, Jill, Sothe, Volug, Zihark, and Edward can all get decent enough benefits by use of a Dracoshield.

[Bananas]

Part 4...

Does the game put the same units into the same groups every single time?

So, if they put them into different groups each playthrough this tier method wouldn't really work except for the ones who are forced into specific groups.

I was just wondering cause I'm pretty sure I remember Zihark making his way around to every group at least once.

Or I put him there myself and forgot >.>

[Mekkah]

You can assign anyone but a select few (people like Soren, Titania, Micaiah, Ike, Tauroneo, Ranulf, Tibarn, Elincia) to any of the three groups.

[Ike-Mike]

1-4

Fail

Meg

I dare someone to challenge Meg’s position.

She makes a good wall in this chapter and this chapter alone. Edited March 3, 2009 by Ike-Mike

[Lord Raven]

She gets doubled by the Cats, and they essentially two round her at most. The Tigers do shitloads of damage to everybody, but they can't double... Meg has low HP too. >_>

[Original Alear]

LOLTRANSFERS. Yes, I'm going to play through 30 chapters of FE9 for Jill to get +2 Str/Spd/Def. Transfers would be worthwhile maybe if we had a file where everyone had their perfect average stats and all levels with Knight Ward etc. etc., but that would take forever without hax, and if we were factoring in hax, then we might as well just rank units by how many chapters they're in. And go live on a farm. Ruled by pigs.

We aren't factoring transfers based on how easily available they are because if we did, we'd be adding +5 to HP and +2 to every other stat for EVERY PoR character (and +10 and +4 for Calill). SD cards are extremely easy to use and there are saves on gamefaqs that yield these benefits (also, I think every character has a bond support, dunno if PoR had an even or odd number of characters, and Ike's group gets at least 10 coins).

Ya I know, it's a very small matter, but don't try to argue that stat transfers are "inconvenient". All it takes is an SD card (not exactly difficult hardware to come by and useful for other stuff too).

I don't know about everyone else, but I only assume max BEXP when it's reasonably easy to do so without overusing uber units like you would need to in this. (I lol at 3-8's turn requirement of 20 when it's easily done in <10) And I'm pretty sure Dragonsknights go after prisoners before going after Laura anyway.

Aren't we basically trying to beat every chapter ASAP w/out losing units since RD has no ranking system other than turncount? Anyway, I think you would need to sacrifice the right side of the prisoners w/out using tormod's group and the left side w/out using volug and nailah (volug can't take left alone). If you are going to use them to save the prisoners you may as well go for turncount since DB can't make any meaningful contribution to the efforts of the wolves or tormod's group.

(chapter 1-8 was the first chapter since 1-4 I easily got the BEXP bonus in so I think it's worth going for)

I mean, if it's just trying to beat the game...meh.

She makes a good wall in this chapter and this chapter alone.

She gets doubled by the Cats, and they essentially two round her at most. The Tigers do shitloads of damage to everybody, but they can't double... Meg has low HP too. >_>

Addressed already. There are 4 tigers on the chapter who can double her (base 8 spd and tigers have either 5->10 or 6->12 spd) which means they will easily kill her if she is in range.

AFAIK she is the only melee unit who can be one-rounded in that chapter. Thus not a good wall. Actually a terrible wall. If Leo gets lucky w/ def or HP he will actually be a better wall than meg is LOL.

Ya you may as well bring her along, she theoretically can be used against some enemies, but the fact is that she's certainly not a good wall.

Edited March 3, 2009 by SeverIan

[Wisper]

Does this tier list method assume Zihark and Jill stay in the DB?

How does this method work in part 4, seeing how your group splits up.

I'd say Sothe> Volug in 1-6-2. His extra movement isn't going to help him save Fiona any better than Sothe. For some reason, Fiona always seems to like to cross the bridge after all of her other units have, so she isn't saved instantly when Volug arrives to help. Saving Fiona is largely based on the RNG. Actually, whether Fiona survives or not is almost completely dependent on how the RNG Goddess treats her the first few turns. They're a few Knights who one round here. There is a myrmidon who has 5% chance to crit.

Also, there's a bunch of fire mages up there that can really threaten Volug at this point. Sothe can OHKO some of the mages with a forged knife.

[Mekkah]

Does this tier list method assume Zihark and Jill stay in the DB?

Since there's tier lists for each chapter, you can assume "both". The tier list for 3-7 would have Jill and Zihark on them (assuming, of course that their availability within this chapter is limited), as well as every Greil Merc chapter afterwards, but they would also be ranked within 3-12 and 3-13.

[Axis & Aria]

Ilyana & Jill with transfers are very nice

Ilyana doubles everything, has the defense to withstand 1/2 melee attacks(unlike Micaiah who dies from everything unless you feed her both Seraph Robes), she may have a bond with Zihark that grants + 15 critical combined with her Elthunder, can avoid enemies with Shade and can use fire, wind and thunder magic.

Jill resists many attacks, doubles a lot of things, has good mobility & support with Zihark makes her less vulnerable to hits.

Without them they perform from good to average

(But seeing as you can get any unit to cap everything, availability and chapter utility is the way to go, exactly as you did here)