Wi-Fi Battles: "What is 'cheap'?"

[Sylvan]

My latest team is very 'cheap'

If your team is anything like my cheap team I'd agree:

What makes it even more cheap, is that on with anyone, since I have so many battles/wins, I almost never go second. But people are spared from this, since I don't really play any more XD

[Meteor]

Yep, that's his exact team.

Your win ratio determines who goes first?

Edited September 6, 2009 by Meteor

[Sylvan]

Oh right, lol. I've had that team for ages, just never used it because of how cheap it was. I guess great minds think alike =P

I'm not sure if win ratio determines who goes first, or if it's just sheer number of wins/losses. I do know, that someone with 50 battles is almost certain to be player 2, while someone with 2000 battles is almost certain to be player 1. I don't know if wins/losses actually affects this or not.

[Meteor]

At that point it's just a matter of going first. I have a feeling that is going to be the standard team eventually, since it's virtually unbeatable with first turn advantage on half the maps.

[Eltoshen]

That team should be banned, rofl.

[Sylvan]

At that point it's just a matter of going first. I have a feeling that is going to be the standard team eventually, since it's virtually unbeatable with first turn advantage on half the maps.

Actually, it's every map except map 5 where it's virtually unbeatable. I have my team in the wrong formation for it to work in map 4, which is why I didn't post it in that clip, and everyone knows about map 3. That leaves 5/6 maps broken.

[Meteor]

I didn't realize it worked on 4 as well. A cursory glance at the map doesn't make it obvious how, either. A second configuration of the team with slots swapped isn't reliable, so you can't really count it anyway.

Edited September 6, 2009 by Meteor

[Meteor]

I fought you 3 times last night. That team really isn't cool. :/

[quanchino]

^ yes, it works on map 4 as well, but it would screw up your formation for map 6 :D

This is the same team I told you about 3 months ago Sylvan.

[Sylvan]

It works on map 4, without screwing up map 6. Although my strategy is probably different to yours. I take it down to 4-4 on the first turn, then stay hidden in fog. That means the opponent is left to use 1 scout, and be left with 3 other units, provided they don't have the 1-1 counter to your scout, it'll result in a win for player 1.

My team is set up like:

DB

BS

S

D=draco, B=berserker, S=sage

So I can't warp the draco without moving the berserker, and the berserks are too far away from the door to open it. If I swap a berserker and a sage, then it'll work. And the map 6 win won't be affected, since it'll only be swapping the order of the units in 1 corner.

About the only counter to this team, is critical hits (using dazzle is probably the worst thing to do against this team), umbra stops the map 6 and map 4 wins, since you can't warp over walls, but it greatly aids map 1, since they can stay hidden in fog. I doubt it would become commonplace to have this team on with anyone, since it relies so heavily on going first to win.

EDIT: I can't remember exactly when I made this team, but it was around the time of the RNG abuse debate. I was trying to invent a team that involved tactics, over stats. So that's why I made it and is also why I kept stressing people needed to put more thought into teams, than just maxing stats. When I realised how broken it was, I decided against using it (I posted some hints to the team on my guide, but never the full thing). But I figured, if someone else managed to come up with the same idea, without seeing my team, then I should probably release the team anyway.

Edited September 6, 2009 by Sylvan

[quanchino]

I was pretty sure we had this discussion over 3 months ago in g-faqs forum. The topic was something along the line of cheap tactics for wifi. But I would've never guessed that you would went ahead and made the team :D

In fact, I've found it:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=943695&topic=49868179&page=1

Topic:

what are some tips/strategies for wifi?

6/8

Edited September 6, 2009 by quanchino

[Sylvan]

Yeah, I already had the team at that point. I think I was using a weaker 5 flying unit one on wifi around then (I put that team in my guide, but not the judgment double warp one, since the 5 flying team can only take advantage of map 2, rather than all the other maps.) I think that team was called Map2~p1 =D or something. Hmm, I might go looking and see if I can find when I made it. . . But it was built around the same time as my second TABAZ!!!! team. (I made three teams in succession, RNG abused 5 horseman, 3 berserkers and the double warp.) Out of those, I only released them once other people began to make them. You can probably go back and find a large chunk of posts from me about the 3 berserker and aum glitch, that was about the same time as I built this team.

EDIT:

I fought you 3 times last night. That team really isn't cool.

I don't think it was me you played.

Edited September 7, 2009 by Sylvan

[quanchino]

Yeah, I already had the team at that point. I think I was using a weaker 5 flying unit one on wifi around then (I put that team in my guide, but not the judgment double warp one, since the 5 flying team can only take advantage of map 2, rather than all the other maps.) I think that team was called Map2~p1 =D or something. Hmm, I might go looking and see if I can find when I made it. . . But it was built around the same time as my second TABAZ!!!! team. (I made three teams in succession, RNG abused 5 horseman, 3 berserkers and the double warp.) Out of those, I only released them once other people began to make them. You can probably go back and find a large chunk of posts from me about the 3 berserker and aum glitch, that was about the same time as I built this team.

EDIT:

I fought you 3 times last night. That team really isn't cool.

I don't think it was me you played.

Ah ok, I guess great minds think alike then :D

though I think the team is only broken if given first player advantage, otherwise it would be a challenge against other pros. But even with umbra in play, this team should do extremely well on map 6 due to the benefit of having 2 sages.

[Meteor]

I fought you 3 times last night. That team really isn't cool.

I don't think it was me you played.

Someone using your DS, perhaps? Your name got replaced on my friends list.

[Eltoshen]

Oh yeah. I just tested using a forged Swarm in Wifi. That thing is really cheap. You can wipe out an enemy from long-range with max-swarm + max pachiderm.

I tried it. It was against another hacker so I still got wiped out, but whatever.

If only I had learned about the max money hack earlier. Beats sitting six hours fighting for money in the arena.

[Sylvan]

Someone using your DS, perhaps? Your name got replaced on my friends list.

There's more than 1 person with that team on wifi, using the name ds.

Your ds name is still "meteor"? if it is, then I didn't play you. I've only played a total of 4 battles in the last month.

[Meteor]

I just tested using a forged Swarm in Wifi. That thing is really cheap.

Well yeah, hacking is generally considered cheap...

There's more than 1 person with that team on wifi, using the name ds.

Your ds name is still "meteor"? if it is, then I didn't play you. I've only played a total of 4 battles in the last month.

Alright, I believe you. I thought it was more than coincidental that we had just been talking about the double Sage team and always going first, then I face some guy who always went first and used the team.

My DS name used to be Jerp; I changed it a couple days ago.

[Sylvan]

Oh, right. Well you come up as meteor on my FC list, I would have noticed if I played you on with anyone. I mostly posted the clip here, because I know a bunch of people are using the exact same team on wifi if it was just quanchino using the team, I wouldn't have posted. (to check, look and see if Radd has no lote's shield). I think there are 5 people in total (myself included) with that team/ds name. Although I haven't been in touch with the rest of them recently.

[luigi bros]

The only thing I call cheap is hacking and in the map where everyone is seperated, is blocking Player 2's exit.

[Meteor]

Map 3 blocking is one of the most agreed upon cheap tactics.

[Soren9934]

Sylvan we need to play again.

using a winged unit and double warping zerkers on map 2, map 3 blocking and hacking are the only cheap things

Edited September 9, 2009 by BlacknightSoren

[Soren9934]

It's quite intelligent, well, on paper.

First off, most people use Dazzle so the deadly hits from Snipers and Berserkers aren't as frequent. The only exception would probably be your team which probably would be using Apotrope card. From what I recall a decent WiFi team consisted of Sage Merric, Sniper, Horseman, Berserker + an oddball (usually a Paladin). A team like the one you presented should focus on two Snipers + Horseman or Sniper + two Horseman so he isn't entirely screwed by close combat. Then again, my opinion.

In theory it works. The long-range thing. If, of course, you're using a full team of Pallys. In which, case, I will always be 2x/4x hit. I generally use Judgement, like everyone else, because I need criticals (Cavalcade uses maxed Killing Edges). If they have Judgment as well, I have Merric + Fortify. I've also found that teams like the above mentioned sometimes lack a healer. Judgement, has actualy saved my life against other teams with ful-on Brave weapons, maxed out.

[Soren9934]

It's quite intelligent, well, on paper.

First off, most people use Dazzle so the deadly hits from Snipers and Berserkers aren't as frequent. The only exception would probably be your team which probably would be using Apotrope card. From what I recall a decent WiFi team consisted of Sage Merric, Sniper, Horseman, Berserker + an oddball (usually a Paladin). A team like the one you presented should focus on two Snipers + Horseman or Sniper + two Horseman so he isn't entirely screwed by close combat. Then again, my opinion.

In theory it works. The long-range thing. If, of course, you're using a full team of Pallys. In which, case, I will always be 2x/4x hit. I generally use Judgement, like everyone else, because I need criticals (Cavalcade uses maxed Killing Edges). If they have Judgment as well, I have Merric + Fortify. I've also found that teams like the above mentioned sometimes lack a healer. Judgement, has actualy saved my life against other teams with ful-on Brave weapons, maxed out.

excuse the triple post my computer fucked up on me, i was going to say was that you need to scout well for a team like that archer one ot work, if u are gettting out scouted by archers as a pali team you need to work on scouting Edited September 9, 2009 by BlacknightSoren

[Eltoshen]

Blocking the exits is really cheap, but if you bring 2 Ballisticians with maxed-forge Pachyderms or something, you can potentially wipe out the blocking unit in a turn. This assumes that you position them correctly, however.

For example, I have three identical teams where characters are placed in a different order just to handle whatever map I'm playing in.

Edited September 10, 2009 by Eltoshen

[Soren9934]

Blocking the exits is really cheap, but if you bring 2 Ballisticians with maxed-forge Pachyderms or something, you can potentially wipe out the blocking unit in a turn. This assumes that you position them correctly, however.

For example, I have three identical teams where characters are placed in a different order just to handle whatever map I'm playing in.

and you could lose your beloved balista in seconds if they aren't protected. this relies a bit to much on place ment of ballista