FE7 tier list, HHM Ranked

[Candlejack]

I think FE8 is the sole exception where the male Healer is better than the female Healer.

EDIT: It's also the one of the exceptions where Anima/Earth is the best affinity in the game. That title is Dark.

Edited October 13, 2009 by OliverXRenning

[Sanger]

No way is Myrrh is better then Fa!!!!

Edited October 13, 2009 by Fa!

[Dat Nick]

Fa wants to know which of the 3 are the best? Lowen Kent or Sain?

BBlade would like Moribalken to say something regarding the subject. >_>

[Florete]

Raven can't equal his offense. Guy's crit lead is huge.

Guy's crit lead is only notable when he has full supports and both are in range, neither of which is reliable for previously stated reasons.

Even if you take his Matt support away for chapters Matt can't come or needs to go reeeeally off path, Guy will be able to consistently match and often beat Raven's 1 range offense.

Match, perhaps. Beat, no way. Raven will practically always have more Str and access to Axes as well. He even beats Guy in Spd when both are 20/1 and for a while afterwards.

Also, I did some calculations on Tactics in HHM if you want to 5 star it. Excluding chapters 19xx and 32x, you need to average ~11.5 turns per map. Excluding just 19xx, ~11 turns per map. Of course, some will take more, some will take less, that's just an idea of how fast you need to go and why longer supports really aren't viable. And then in the following maps Matthew will have at least some time away from Guy for various reasons: 15 (Talons Alight), 17 (Whereabouts Unknown), 20 (Dragon's Gate), 22 (Kinship's Bond), 23x (Genesis), 27 (Pale Flower of Darkness), 28 (Battle Before Dawn), 28x (Night of Farewells), 31 (Sands of Time). Combine that with the fact that they won't always both be deployed because of often limited deployment slots and the fact that both are locked to one range (meaning no opportunity for one to attack an enemy from range and the other up front to end up next to each other, which is often very important in support building) and MatthewxGuy doesn't build within any reasonable amount of time. He might have A by like, Victory or Death or something, if you're even still using him by them because his promotion costs a shitton.

Because Bishops get a huge boost in EXP gain. Serra will gain EXP MUCH quicker by attacking as a Bishop. Valkyries also get this boost. Priscilla definitely has better supports though; Erk and Guy are awesome supports. Erk is super fast and Guy starts early with great boosts.

The experience boost is not what I'd call "huge", and if she's promoted as early as you say, it still won't even be that great.

You bare minimum S rank Tactics. You heal no matter how much HP they need. HP gain from a level up, counter, Nils, etc.

But there's not always someone to heal, and she can't always reach someone who might need a heal.

To those who debate Serra Vs. Priscilla, let me answer this simply:

Serra is Serra.

Priscilla is Serra on a horse. Simple, right?

That's actually rather similar to what I've been trying to say, only more simplified.

[Candlejack]

It's sort of like Ellen Vs. Clarine in FE6.

[dondon151]

OK, since I've actually done a ranked run (and posted a log about it), I think my experiences should be able to quell some misconceptions.

I pull up a chapter 20 save and here are my built supports:

Hector x Eliwood C

Florina x Lyn C

Dorcas x Bartre C

So you thought our support options were restricted in unranked FE7 HHM? Well, they're restricted even more now, since due to the EXP rank requirements, you are forced to rotate deployed units, which leads to less available chapters for support building.

Fast forward to chapter 26. Here are new supports that I've built in this 7 chapter time frame:

Sain x Kent C

Chapter 28 supports:

Sain x Kent B

Chapter 32 supports:

Hector x Eliwood B

Kent x Sain A

Kent x Fiora C

Lucius x Raven C

Priscilla x Raven C

Harken x Isadora B (I did glue them together a lot for this one)

In addition to supports building slower than usual, your units promote slower than usual. The easiest time to work on your EXP rank is early to midgame, since easier enemies are obviously more manageable than tougher enemies. Therefore, the player will spread EXP among a greater number of units in that time period, so you can push promotion back by like 4 chapters. I didn't promote anyone until chapter 28.

Finally, on Guy vs. Raven (or whatever the hell this debate is about):

They're about equal offensively and defensively when Raven joins (Guy is 9/0 or 10/0). Except that Raven is lower leveled and will thus gain EXP faster, in addition to having more con that allows him to wield Steel Swords without losing the ability to 2x enemies and higher str growth (a whole 25%) that will quickly build a lead on Guy.

Chapter 24 comparison:

Guy    16/0 (no supports) Iron Sword  16.9  atk, 20.0  AS, 34.75 HP, 7.95 def
                         Steel Sword 19.9  atk, 15.0  AS
Raven  14/0 (no supports) Iron Sword  19.95 atk, 19.05 AS, 36.65 HP, 8.25 def
                         Steel Sword 22.95 atk, 17.05 AS

What you'll notice here is that Raven only needs iron to tie Guy's atk with steel, and he wins in every parameter when both have steel. Why is steel important? It's because enemy mercs in chapter 24 average something like 30 HP, 7 def, and 11-12 AS. 22 atk/16 AS is a guaranteed ORKO on all mercs on this map. Not only does Guy fail to reach 22 atk, but Steel Sword weighs him down by enough that he won't be able to double half of the mercs on the map. Raven wins here and wins so long as Guy doesn't promote for his crit bonus.

Let's say that both are promoted by chapter 26 (because this map has a lot of wyverns). WTA and WTD are already factored:

Guy    20/1 (no supports) Steel Sword  20.1  atk, 16.0 AS, 42.75 HP, 10.55 def
                         Killing Edge 21.1  atk, 19.0 AS, (55 crt)
Raven  18/1 (no supports) Steel Axe    29.15 atk, 16.0 AS, 44.05 HP, 11.25 def

Why did I not include a Killing Edge option for Raven? Because he doesn't need one. The highest end WK possible on this map is 33 HP, 12 def, 11 AS. This means that Raven is guaranteed to ORKO every WK on the map with just a Steel Axe, whereas Guy needs a Killing Edge proc to do it (80% chance for ORKO). With a Steel Sword, Guy may not even be able to 2RKO the highest end WKs (leaves them with 1 HP). Raven clearly wins 1-range combat, and has the option of 1-2 range, so he clearly beats Guy after promotion.

And actually, I forgot to factor in WTA/WTD for def, so Raven wins HP/def by 1.3/2.7.

Edited October 13, 2009 by dondon151

[Dat Nick]

...Wait, how on earth did you have KentSain at a higher support level than HectorEliwood? Not only is the support notably faster [57 turns to A opposed to KentSain 71 turns] but it has more time to activate.

Edited October 13, 2009 by Athena's Chest

[dondon151]

I had Hector capped at 20/0 by chapter 24 and Eliwood at a pretty high level (to get Geitz), so I didn't deploy Eliwood much until the first Heaven Seal, and when I did deploy him, I didn't have Hector fight because he would "steal EXP" (see this is another reason why EXP rank is stupid, because bullshit arguments actually have to be considered). I think I originally planned to not promote Eliwood because Heaven Seal costs 20k, but I ended up having enough funds anyway. The problem was that while I could glue Kent and Sain together all the time, I couldn't do that with Hector and Eliwood.

[Tangerine]

BBlade would like Moribalken to say something regarding the subject. >_>

Sain >= Kent > Lowen is what we came to, though we're still discussing it. Lowen's offense is too suspect.

So you thought our support options were restricted in unranked FE7 HHM? Well, they're restricted even more now, since due to the EXP rank requirements, you are forced to rotate deployed units, which leads to less available chapters for support building.

You don't need to rotate at all early game. This early in the game you can use a good team for a while and you NEED to use a good team. It's only in mid and late that the EXP rank starts to come into play for the most part. It's most efficient to use your best units, build up characters and then use those characters to support your EXP sponges. Marcus is the only one who shouldn't be used often out of your good characters, because he gets nothing.

Plus you didn't go out of your way to get supports like I suggested, you went through it like normal. Using my method of bare-bones Tactics S rank, you can get a good amount of turns in for supports at any point in the game with the right character choices. All defense chapters are free support turns as well.

Edited October 13, 2009 by Moribalken

[Candlejack]

Sain has the lead in STR, LCK, and an equal lead on DEF with Lowen. Has an inferior affinity, Wind. Has the better STR growth.

Kent has the lead in HP with Lowen, SKL, SPD, and RES. Has the second best affinity in the game, Anima. Has a better SKL and SPD growth.

Lowen is a mixed bag of the above two: higher HP, lower STR, lower SKL, lower SPD, higher DEF, MUCH lower LCK, lower RES, but a higher CON of the three. However, he's got the useful Fire affinity for supports. Not only that, he has the best HP, RES, and DEF growths of the three.

So, basically:

Using Lowen is like using a combination of Sain and Kent, only with crappier bases but better growths. Also, access to supports with Eliwood and Marcus help him out, as well as Isadora's awesome Dark affinity. They're all very quick C's to gain as well. Secondary accesses to Harken and Rebecca are also somewhat handy, but the above few will do more for your team.

Sain has leads in STR, LCK, and DEF, as how any normal greencav should. Sadly, his support affinity, Wind, sucks. He can support Kent, but Kent wants somebody with Hit. He also has Fiora, but why the hell would you want a Wind-Wind relationship?!? Rebecca has too low of a MOV to keep up with Sain, same with Serra, Priscilla has Wind, Louise has Light that Sain doesn't want, and Isadora; but, she's already supporting a shitload of better characters. SORRY SAIN, YOU'LL HAVE TO GO ALONE. Or with Kent. Either way.

Kent is the typical redcav, with his leads in HP, SKL, SPD, and RES. Luckily for him, he's given the awesome Anima affinity; better yet, he supports a lot of people who benefit from the defensive boosts, mainly Lyn, Sain, and Fiora. Anyone else, you shouldn't really bother with. AKA: Lollace, Failrina, and Heath. No names for Heath, I say?!? Well, Heath is motherfucking Heath. That and he also supports Legault. Poor Heath; he's got the skillz but no friendz.

Oh wait, I digress.

----------------

So in favor of who is more USEFUL:

Well, they all have their uses TBH. Sain is the better attacker/wall, Kent doubles more easily, and Lowen is a crappier version of either one.

EDIT: Err, I just realized I inadvertently argued Lowen down below Sain and Kent.

In that case, he should also go below Oswin and MAYBE Hector for reasons I shall state tomorrow. Goddamn wolves are finally gone.

Edited October 13, 2009 by OliverXRenning

[Tangerine]

Sain has the lead in STR, LCK, and an equal lead on DEF with Lowen. Has an inferior affinity, Wind. Has the better STR growth.

At 20/0 Sain wins: STR, SPD, SKL (wow, Sain wins skill..). Lowen wins HP, DEF, RES and LCK. Sain's offense destroys his, quite frankly.

Kent has the lead in HP with Lowen, SKL, SPD, and RES. Has the second best affinity in the game, Anima. Has a better SKL and SPD growth.

20/0 Kent wins: STR, SKL, SPD, RES. Lowen wins: HP, DEF, LCK

Kent and Sain beat Lowen in all of those growths as well, except RES for Kent. Lowen wins defense, Kent and Sain win offense. The thing is, Kent and Sain still don't have bad defense.

Sain has leads in STR, LCK, and DEF, as how any normal greencav should. Sadly, his support affinity, Wind, sucks. He can support Kent, but Kent wants somebody with Hit. He also has Fiora, but why the hell would you want a Wind-Wind relationship?!? Rebecca has too low of a MOV to keep up with Sain, same with Serra, Priscilla has Wind, Louise has Light that Sain doesn't want, and Isadora; but, she's already supporting a shitload of better characters. SORRY SAIN, YOU'LL HAVE TO GO ALONE. Or with Kent. Either way.

ANY support is better than no support. Plus, Wind DOES give hit, so I dunno what you're talking about. Kent takes Sain every time. Fiora does too, if she's in play. She only takes Florina over Sain. Probably gonna end up with just A Kent though.

Kent is the typical redcav, with his leads in HP, SKL, SPD, and RES. Luckily for him, he's given the awesome Anima affinity; better yet, he supports a lot of people who benefit from the defensive boosts, mainly Lyn, Sain, and Fiora. Anyone else, you shouldn't really bother with. AKA: Lollace, Failrina, and Heath. No names for Heath, I say?!? Well, Heath is motherfucking Heath. That and he also supports Legault. Poor Heath; he's got the skillz but no friendz.

Kent is pretty much assured A Sain/B Lyn if in play.

[Candlejack]

Sain has the lead in STR, LCK, and an equal lead on DEF with Lowen. Has an inferior affinity, Wind. Has the better STR growth.

At 20/0 Sain wins: STR, SPD, SKL (wow, Sain wins skill..). Lowen wins HP, DEF, RES and LCK. Sain's offense destroys his, quite frankly.

Kent has the lead in HP with Lowen, SKL, SPD, and RES. Has the second best affinity in the game, Anima. Has a better SKL and SPD growth.

20/0 Kent wins: STR, SKL, SPD, RES. Lowen wins: HP, DEF, LCK

Kent and Sain beat Lowen in all of those growths as well, except RES for Kent. Lowen wins defense, Kent and Sain win offense. The thing is, Kent and Sain still don't have bad defense.

Sain has leads in STR, LCK, and DEF, as how any normal greencav should. Sadly, his support affinity, Wind, sucks. He can support Kent, but Kent wants somebody with Hit. He also has Fiora, but why the hell would you want a Wind-Wind relationship?!? Rebecca has too low of a MOV to keep up with Sain, same with Serra, Priscilla has Wind, Louise has Light that Sain doesn't want, and Isadora; but, she's already supporting a shitload of better characters. SORRY SAIN, YOU'LL HAVE TO GO ALONE. Or with Kent. Either way.

ANY support is better than no support. Plus, Wind DOES give hit, so I dunno what you're talking about. Kent takes Sain every time. Fiora does too, if she's in play. She only takes Florina over Sain. Probably gonna end up with just A Kent though.

Kent is the typical redcav, with his leads in HP, SKL, SPD, and RES. Luckily for him, he's given the awesome Anima affinity; better yet, he supports a lot of people who benefit from the defensive boosts, mainly Lyn, Sain, and Fiora. Anyone else, you shouldn't really bother with. AKA: Lollace, Failrina, and Heath. No names for Heath, I say?!? Well, Heath is motherfucking Heath. That and he also supports Legault. Poor Heath; he's got the skillz but no friendz.

Kent is pretty much assured A Sain/B Lyn if in play.

1. Okay, so Sain wins offensively, and Lowen wins defensively. In HHM, defense is, quite frankly, going to be more important than offense. I'm not calling Lowen a terrible character, I'm just saying he is inferior to those two. Dunno what you're trying to get at anyway.

2. There's something called negative utility. Not that Sain has ANY, but Wind is a pretty shitty affinity to end up with. And by Hit, I mean damage. Wind gives a small ATK boost, but mostly Crit and and ACC boosts; frankly, Kent doesn't need them. But Sain truly adores the Anima affinity Kent gives him. So Kent will be the bigger man and take the Wind bonuses. And why use Fiora when you can use Florina... and support her with Hector?

3. Why WOULDN'T you use Kent in the first place? He's a pretty cool guy, eh doubles a lot and doesn't afraid of anything. Same with Sain, except instead of doubling, its rapes things in one shot. I seriously don't think Kent needs TWO wind supports however. *Looks at support list* ... okay, in HIS CASE, it is. A shame he doesn't get an ATK support but Sain does.

Speaking of aforementioned supports, WHY IS SAIN PICKING UP ON A LOLI AND A MARRIED WOMAN? Just a thought.

I think Merlinus has the shittiest choices support wise. He should be below Nino in his own little island tier. Only thing good about him is his Dark affinity. Good luck getting him around with 0 MOV.

-------------------

I also find it funny as a recurring theme that characters in the GBA games with Dark Affinity are either outclassed or just plain bad. Examples:

Rennac, Knoll, Isadora, Merlinus, Karla, Zealot, Astohl, Sofiya, and Orson. etc. The exclusions are Rutger, Percival, Riev and Miledy; all great characters in their own right. This sort of extends into the Console Series, with Stefan, Micaiah, Soren, and Calill representing the outclassed or outright suck. The exclusions include Naesala, Giffca, and the Black Knight.

Characters with the Earth/Anima affinity also have a recurring theme to be some of the best characters in their game: Kent, Lott, Oswin, Duessel, Seth, Moulder, Vanessa, Ike (FE9/10), Oscar (FE9), Tanith (FE9), Nolan, Volug, Zihark, and Caineghis. The remaining Anima/Earth users not listed either are outclassed or outright SUCK: Cecillia, Dayan, Niime, Tanith (FE10), Oscar (FE10), Ena, Lucia, Fiona, Canas, Renault, Athos, Noah, Cath, and Eliwood.

[Dat Nick]

I dunno. What with catering to EXP rank and all Lowen's likely going to be at a lower level than usual which may screw up his offense.

Edited October 13, 2009 by Athena's Chest

[dondon151]

You don't need to rotate at all early game. This early in the game you can use a good team for a while and you NEED to use a good team. It's only in mid and late that the EXP rank starts to come into play for the most part. It's most efficient to use your best units, build up characters and then use those characters to support your EXP sponges. Marcus is the only one who shouldn't be used often out of your good characters, because he gets nothing.

Good luck feeding kills to your 5/0 Bartre in chapter 24.

Plus you didn't go out of your way to get supports like I suggested, you went through it like normal. Using my method of bare-bones Tactics S rank, you can get a good amount of turns in for supports at any point in the game with the right character choices. All defense chapters are free support turns as well.

This assumption is incorrect. I glued together Sain and Kent pretty damn often for their A support by chapter 32 (same thing with Isadora and Harken), and it can't be assumed that the player will go out of his way to build supports. Regardless, however, supports like Raven x Lucius/Priscilla still took way too long even with special effort dedicated to them, and I did try to build a triangle between Sain, Fiora, and Kent, but we all know what came out of that.

You can't really argue that support options aren't more restricted than nonranked FE7 HHM, considering that this "building supports whenever possible" notion is already the norm.

I think I ended up getting something like 9 turns below the maximum requirements. That 9 extra turns spread over the course of the game is not going to help anyone build their supports faster by any nonnegligible amount, and would probably be better spent doing rescue chains around an arena.

[Mekkah]

List of supports you can assume to have reasonable significance for HHM ranked:

- Pent x Louise

- Hector x Eliwood

Anything else? Good luck with it, I know I wouldn't bother.

HHM Ranked is almost a set method of how to do things rather than a playthrough with a ton of variables. I find a tier list for it to be an absurd idea now, almost.

[Dat Nick]

Not even Lyn/Florina is viable anymore?

[_____]

Dart above Bartre seems off.

Very off.

In fact, I see no reason for why Bartre is below someone like Rath.

Edited October 13, 2009 by Ninji

[Candlejack]

Rath has horse mobility and Dark Affinity, the best in the game.

Bartre has none of those, and the only thing he DOES have over Rath is STR.

Otherwise, yeah, they both suck pretty much.

Not only can Lyn be outdone by many other swordsmen like Guy and ESPECIALLY Raven, but she has the shitty Wind. Not to mention Florina has more MOV, better support options, and a better-ish affinity. One that doesn't really help Lyn.

PentXLouise is okay. Ice gives Louise AVO and Light gives Pent some CRIT and the marginally useful ACC.

EliwoodXHector is monstrous, mainly before Eliwood would get his horsey. Giving Mr. Iron Wall here an ANIMA Affinity, and giving Mr. Needs Moar AVO Thunder Affinity work well with each other. They're like fire and oil.

HectorXOswin is pretty amazing too, for the above reasons.

OswinXSerra is ALSO awesome for Serra and Oswin.

MarcusXIsadora is pretty cool, and they get monster bonuses with an A support. Anima + Dark Affinity combo = EPIC RAPE.

Too bad Farina comes unworthy of her price and Renault comes so late. Their Anima affinities would be of great use. Speaking of affinities, WHY COULDN'T WE JUST GIVE MERLINUS WIND AND BE DONE WITH IT. GIVE THAT DARK TO SOMEBODY WHO DESERVES IT, LIKE SAIN OR MATTHEW.

On a final note, CanasXPent is a cool combo as well.

[Just call me AL]

Florina's supports:

Lyn: Fast support, which is always a blessing, I see no reason why this isn't happening.

Fiora: 10 turns slower, but has the same benefits as with Lyn, and can potentially be a better support due to the fact that Fiora and Florina can stay in each other's range.

Farina: Better benefits, but would be happening if this weren't ranked.

Ninian: Ice X Light is a good combo, but there is Ninian's dancer utility to contend with as well as the MOV difference.

Hector: You practically have to glue them together to get their supports working, approximately 40 turns per support level, take into account of Florina's flyer utility, and you can slap the not happening label on this pair.

Nino: Hector X Florina's problems + the fact that Nino joins late = not happening.

Serra: As if the flyer utility didn't make it hard enough to get this pair, but also 80 per support level? So not happening.

And BTW, Oswin X Serra isn't happening either due to Serra's supports being slow.

[Candlejack]

Hmm, ranks hmm?

Fucking Serra. You could pair her up with Lucius, but FFFFFFFFFFFFFuck it.

MarcusXIsadora is an awesome pair though.

That and LynXFlorina doesn't exactly produce awesome bonuses for either character. Same said about FlorinaXFiora.

[Just call me AL]

That and LynXFlorina doesn't exactly produce awesome bonuses for either character. Same said about FlorinaXFiora.

It doesn't really change the fact that they're Florina's best support options (on ranked at least), despite what their affinities say. On ranked and efficient runs, you want the fastest supports possible, and sometimes you gotta ignore what the affinities give for the sake of ranks and efficiency. Heck, IIRC, people even agreed on Priscilla X Raven happening even though the affinity synergy those two have is fail.

[Candlejack]

Why people prefer ranks over utility is beyond me.

[Just call me AL]

Why people prefer ranks over utility is beyond me.

Utility is one thing, trying to get that utility to work is something else. There's a reason why mounted units such as cavs and pegasus knights aren't always advised to be paired with grounded units like myrmidons or armored knights unless there's a certain reason for the pair in question. Needing fast supports is one of those reasons, IIRC.

That is, if we're talking support utility.

Edited October 14, 2009 by Idun and Sephiroth fan

[_____]

Just follow Dondon's guidelines. Only very fast supports are likely to make a difference.

Rath has horse mobility and Dark Affinity, the best in the game.

Bartre has none of those, and the only thing he DOES have over Rath is STR.

Wow, you went so in-depth, I think that my head might explode.

Bartre is forced during his worst period. After that, his speed growth starts to kick in and his abysmal base is soon made up for. Considering how most enemies barely gain any speed until they promote, he's going to stop getting doubled (thus doubling his already awesome durability) and he's able to start doubling things like Armors and Archers. He's 2RKOing anything that he isn't doubled, anyway.

Rath joins moderately underleveled in 22. By this point, Bartre has most certainly become a positive. He also has 1 and 1-2 range, unlike Rath.

Assuming Rath wants to promote as soon as possible to get his lolE swords...

10/1 Rath; 30 HP, 10 Defense, 5 Res

w/ Steel Bow - 20 MT, 94 Hit, 11 AS, 27 Avoid, 5 Crit

w/ Iron Sword - 16 MT, 114 Hit, 12 AS, 29 Avoid, 5 Crit

Compared to Bartre, assuming he has gotten a little over 1 level per chapter...

17 Bartre (C Dorcas); 41 HP, 8 Defense, 3 Res

w/ Iron Axe - 24 MT, 100 Hit, 9 AS, 31 Avoid, 10 Crit

w/ Steel Axe - 27 MT, 90 Hit, 7 AS, 27 Avoid, 10 Crit

w/ Hand Axe - 23 MT, 85 Hit, 9 AS, 31 Avoid, 10 Crit

So, a promoted Rath is definitely losing durability to an unpromoted Bartre (11 HP and 4 Avoid with Iron and Hand >>> 2 Defense and 2 Res, plus WTA with Axes >>> WTD with Swords) while either winning or basically tying offense (If you Rath attacks with the Steel Bow, he has no enemy phase. If he doesn't, he's doing laughable damage.).

If we promote Bartre, it's even more of a blowout.

17/1 Bartre (C Dorcas); 44 HP, 11 Defense, 6 Res

w/ Steel Axe - 28 MT, 94 Hit, 9 AS, 31 Avoid, 10 Crit

w/ Hand Axe - 24 MT, 89 Hit, 9 AS, 31 Avoid, 10 Crit

w/ Iron Bow - 23 MT, 117 Hit, 9 AS, 31 Avoid, 10 Crit

I don't even need to explain how much better Bartre is here.

You could say that since Rath joins rather under leveled, he benefits the EXP rank. However, if he promotes later than this, he has less time to build up his Sword rank and he loses out on 3 HP, 3 Defense, and 2 Strength.

Don't even bother mentioning Rath's supports because there's a move difference between him and every single one of his options, and even if they were to happen, they would happen to late to actually make a difference.

I haven't looked at the enemy stats, but I honestly can't think of how 2 AS could possibly let Rath win.

[Candlejack]

Why use Bartre when you can use Dorcas? They join on the same chapter, Dorcas has leads in EVERYTHING other than STR, LCK, and DEF, and has the better affinity when comparing him with his supports.

Dorcas gets A with Geitz/Bartre and B with Oswin, he is motherfucking set.

That and his growths are better too.

Dorcas

HP 80

STR 60

SKL 40

SPD 20

45 LCK

25 DEF

15 RES

Bartre

HP 85

STR 50

SKL 35

SPD 40

LCK 30

DEF 30

RES 25

--------------------

Yeah, so, they're practically equal on HP growth, Dorcas gets a higher STR growth, SKL growth's are almost equal, and Bartre's SPD growth is twice as good, but Dorcas has a laughable lead on SPD over Bartre anyway. And 40% isn't even THAT good anyway.

Oh, Dorcas also has the better LCK growth, while Bartre gets the higher DEF and RES growths.

So while Bartre is missing and not doubling, Dorcas is doubling AND ORKO'ing.

That and Dorcas gets an auto-C in axes, so he gets Killer Axes and Swordslayers, while Bartre doesn't get those nice bonuses.

---------------------

Okay, so it's completely unrelated to Rath Vs. Bartre. But I'm trying to say how Dorcas outdoes Bartre ANYWAY. Same goes with Rath, but with... with...

Umm, which Archer in this game doesn't COMPLETELY blow?

EDIT: Actually, Geitz and/or Promoted Dorcas with bows are better than every natural bow-user.

Laaaaaawwwwwwwwllllllll.

Edited October 14, 2009 by OliverXRenning