S Rank Tier List for FE7

[Life]

Inui, I have to ask you a question. A serious question in which I would prefer a proper well thought out and formatted answer.

What are you arguing about? Do you want Oswin up or Oswin down? You're continuing to beat a dead horse on the hopes that it might just spring up and live again (supports). Are you just defending your... inaccurate level assumptions or are you actually trying to get something out of this?

Also, you mentioned that 1 Move difference means like nothing, right? From the closest starting spot to Lloyd, there's 33 spaces.

Promoted Oswin (5 move) needs 7 turns to reach Lloyd assuming nobody's blocking him. Someone like Geitz (6 move) can reach Lloyd in 6 turns. The peg sisters and Paladins need 4 to snipe Lloyd with a Javelin. So that's the difference. 1 turn. 1 turn that I wouldn't have had to waste had I just fielded someone with 1 more Move.

And another thing I want to mention (Fox, thanks for mentioning Lucius, I forgot about him).

It helps them both on top of other things. With the two RN system, 2 Hit and 2 Avoid is more than 2. 5 Crit Evd = less concern for Luna. In fact, Oswin always gets this bonus, and then he can not care about Luna enemies. Priscilla wants the Atk and Crit. That 1 Atk can let Oswin OHKO things.

Really? Like what? Name me one thing that regular Oswin in CoD leaves with 1 HP but OHKO's with 1+ Att. The rest of the support is HORRIBLE. I can make the Luna case FOR ANYONE. I can make the Hit and Avo case FOR ANYONE. AnimaxWind is not good and 0 +2 doesn't help its case. Now watch this.

WindxIce (Raven 20 +3) - Att +0.5, Def +0.5, Hit +5, Avo +2.5, Crit +2.5, Crit Evade +5.

It helps them both on top of other things. With the two RN system, 5 Hit and 2 Avoid is more than 5 and 2. 5 Crit Evd = less concern for Luna. In fact, Raven always gets this bonus, and then he can not care about Luna enemies. Priscilla wants the Atk and Crit. That 1 Atk can let Raven ORKO things.

WindxThunder (Erk 15 +3, Heath 0 +2) - Att +0.5, Def +0.5, Hit +2.5, Avo +2.5, Crit +5, Crit Evade +5.

It helps them both on top of other things. With the two RN system, 2 Hit and 2 Avoid is more than 2. 5 Crit Evd = less concern for Luna. In fact, Erk and Heath always get this bonus, and then they can not care about Luna enemies. Priscilla wants the Atk and Crit. That 1 Atk can lets Heath and Erk ORKO things.

When I can generally just change names in your argument along with a couple numbers and prove supports for other people, that puts a serious hurt on how credible your own argument is.

Now, since nobody's come forward and said anything about Hawkeye not deserving a spot in the Upper Mid tier, I'm close to doing it. My other arguments were:

Canas > Fiora - Probably won't happen but both of them should probably move up which means that we should re-examine Pent and Harken's placings.

Dorcas > Hawkeye - Generally agreed on that Dorcas is better than Hawkeye but no definitive place.

Bartre > Jaffar - Bal was the only one who commented on this and agreed with me on it.

Anyone want to comment on this instead of the Oswin debate which seems to have zero purpose? I honestly think that we have problems with the Upper Mid and Lower Mid tiers as a few inconsistancies exist there.

Edited March 24, 2010 by Admiral Lifey Crunch

[Florete]

Nope.

Wow, can't even accept the possibility? Arrogant doesn't even scratch the surface.

Not really, lol. It's more optimal and efficient and easier to get C's in this game and not worry about building up A's. Oswin being able to get a C with Priscilla is quite possible. Even a C with Serra is totally viable. Just assuming X unit is always in play and when in play always supports X unit is wrong. Variety matters since no players do the same thing every single time.

Of course it's possible, it just isn't viable in an S rank tier list setting. There are things that happen often, things that can be assumed to happen occasionally, and things that rarely or never happen. Guess which one this is.

It helps them both on top of other things. With the two RN system, 2 Hit and 2 Avoid is more than 2. 5 Crit Evd = less concern for Luna. In fact, Oswin always gets this bonus, and then he can not care about Luna enemies. Priscilla wants the Atk and Crit. That 1 Atk can let Oswin OHKO things.

At best it can turn into like 4 hit/avoid. I'm still not excited. And Priscilla's massive Luck says she likely already doesn't care much for Luna Druids, or if she does it won't be helping her. By the way, how the fuck does Oswin always get this bonus? Did you forget the 3 move gap again?

I see. Well, there you have it. More proof that people play this game extremely differently in many cases. Assuming only one way is optimal is impossible and dumb. If I S rank with a 20/10+ Oswin in CoD, what's the big deal? I like having a unit with a 0% chance of death in all situations ever that ORKOs nearly everything after promotion. It's like having a Marcus in the midgame if you promote Oswin quickly. Any Experience rank issues I have are easily remedied with 32x, throwing a very low level Guy/Raven down south in Crazed Beast, spamming staves, etc.

I could probably S rank with a 20/20 Priscilla at SoT, but that doesn't mean I'm going to argue her to the very top.

Certainly, but Oswin has a natural level lead on them. He starts at level 9 in Chapter 12. That's pretty crazy. Even if Florina was leveled in LHM, she's not going to be level 9, which means Oswin will have quite the big lead on her initially. His awesome durability makes him a top choice for enemy phase baiting, so he continues to easily gain EXP.

His awesome (read: terrible) mobility on top of not doubling before promotion counters his ability to get experience as fast as you'd like.

And I have had a level 11 Florina come out of LHM. When S ranking level 8-9 is actually normal for me.

Indeed, it's likely. It's not guaranteed, however. I prefer to avoid every flier in this game except sometimes Farina. I like doing most of my offense on the enemy phase and playing it safe, so defensive juggernauts are better for me and get the job of S ranking done more easily for me.

And I like using every flier I get except Vaida (Aid sucks).

[Mekkah]

Now, since nobody's come forward and said anything about Hawkeye not deserving a spot in the Upper Mid tier, I'm close to doing it.

This is fine with me.

Canas > Fiora - Probably won't happen but both of them should probably move up which means that we should re-examine Pent and Harken's placings.

I think Canas should either be above or below both Peg sisters, not just one of them. Canas is from what I know more comfortable at combat, but Fiora brings a large amount of special flying goodness to the table that even just a slice of the credit for that elevates her position.

Dorcas > Hawkeye - Generally agreed on that Dorcas is better than Hawkeye but no definitive place.

tbh Geitz and Hawkeye seem very similar in many ways, just like Dorcas and Bartre, so maybe they should all be around where Dorcas and Geitz are hanging right now?

Bartre > Jaffar - Bal was the only one who commented on this and agreed with me on it.

Like implied above, I'm all for moving Bartre up as high as Upper Mid just to make someone form a consistent argument to move him elsewhere.

I honestly think that we have problems with the Upper Mid and Lower Mid tiers as a few inconsistancies exist there.

Only Balcerak has properly responded to this before: the problem is probably that there are too many tier gaps. This applies to a ranked list even moreso than efficiency list due to the EXP rank mostly helping units that are bad at everything else. A ranked playthrough is one where pretty much every unit has utility, making it extremely hard to justify even more than one tier gap between anything.

And yes, the Oswin debate is pointless. Even disregarding that it's a very one sided debate, TYTE hasn't told us what he thinks should happen to Oswin. AFAIK it just started with the notion of Oswin not being optimal deployment in CoD.

Edited March 24, 2010 by Mekkah

[Inui]

Refer to me as Inui. Not a reference to Horio. You can't just call me something else stupid and get away with it. It's the same thing, and the moderators were already pretty clear about it. You should all get infractions imo for continually ignoring warnings and trolling.

What are you arguing about? Do you want Oswin up or Oswin down? You're continuing to beat a dead horse on the hopes that it might just spring up and live again (supports). Are you just defending your... inaccurate level assumptions or are you actually trying to get something out of this?

Oswin should be below the Cavaliers. I'm merely arguing against the extreme hype you people give to the Experience rank and 1 Mov, rofl. My level assumptions aren't inaccurate. They're what happens in my S rank playthroughs. *shrug* That's all I can say about that.

At best it can turn into like 4 hit/avoid. I'm still not excited. And Priscilla's massive Luck says she likely already doesn't care much for Luna Druids, or if she does it won't be helping her. By the way, how the fuck does Oswin always get this bonus? Did you forget the 3 move gap again?

They can kill her in one hit without a critical, rofl. The Shamans kill in two. They all have extremely good Hit. Anything with Luna is like the worst possible enemy for her to face.

What I meant is that all of Oswin's supports give full Crit Evd besides Dorcas and that even that one gives partial Crit Evd. He's getting it no matter who he supports.

His awesome (read: terrible) mobility on top of not doubling before promotion counters his ability to get experience as fast as you'd like.

Earlygame chapters are tiny and nobody is one-rounding but Marcus, so...this doesn't really matter. Unlike everyone else, he can't die.

[CATS]

You assuming that all of Priscilla's partners are in play 100% of the time is much dumber than me assuming Oswin can snag a C or B with her sometimes.

Difference being that relevant evidence been given against the viability of Oswin x Priscilla, while you've presented no evidence to support this odd notion that "no unit is always used." Where is this mentality coming from, and what is the justification for it? "Variety?" Yeah, let's drop Kent for Bartre cause we already have 2-3 paladins but no warriors, clearly this decision adds valuable "variety" to the team. I would go into more detail here, but it looks like Interceptor decided to attack this point, so it's pretty much screwed anyways.

And that unit will be less durable than Oswin.

Did you forget that we're talking about CoD, the chapter where Oswin gets doubled by magic enemies?

Okay, what if Oswin got the Boots? Then he has 7 Mov. Oswin and Hector are pretty much the only choices that aren't retarded.

Ninian would like to have a word with you.

I'm sorry, but I'm having trouble seeing how 1 Mov trumps significantly more durability on a map where enemies all come to you.

The enemies may come to you, but the throne does not.

Didn't CATS point out that any other unit given similar treatment could do the same, or are you opting to ignore one of the Gods of FE debating this time around for your own convenience?

I'd like to say that I pointed out that units given similar treatment will not just do the same as Oswin; they'll be outperforming him.

---

Now, since nobody's come forward and said anything about Hawkeye not deserving a spot in the Upper Mid tier, I'm close to doing it. My other arguments were:

Canas > Fiora - Probably won't happen but both of them should probably move up which means that we should re-examine Pent and Harken's placings.

Dorcas > Hawkeye - Generally agreed on that Dorcas is better than Hawkeye but no definitive place.

Bartre > Jaffar - Bal was the only one who commented on this and agreed with me on it.

Anyone want to comment on this instead of the Oswin debate which seems to have zero purpose? I honestly think that we have problems with the Upper Mid and Lower Mid tiers as a few inconsistancies exist there.

Indeed, the Oswin debate does seem pretty aimless by now. Anyways, like I said, I agree with Hawkeye to upper mid, probably moreso than anything else you're proposing. Not much to say about it; he provides some significant positive utility while he's around, no one can deny that. He's your MVP for a couple chapters; that's definitely better than anyone else in lower mid can claim sans Athos (who is only MVP for one chapter).

Canas vs Fiora: Again, my problem here is that Fiora is supposedly significantly worse than Florina, who is high tier. With a 4 level gap between them on IoM (L12 Florina vs L8 Fiora perhaps), the gap in Hp/Def/Res is small (Florina has liek +2 Hp and Fiora actually wins in Def) and half the mages can't attack anyways, so I don't see an appreciable gap in durability. Florina's offensive advantages are more relevant because she's better at doubling mages with an iron lance, but the rest of the chapter's enemies are axereaver pegs or knights where AS doesn't matter and Florina's Str lead is also small (1 point). Meanwhile, Fiora's gaining roughly +12 Exp per kill. This is the chapter where any supposed level gap will be at its highest, and the level gap is pretty small to begin with; after it closes they also have similar performance.

As for Canas himself, Combat is easy in this game, so his poor pre-promotion offense wouldn't hurt him as much as it might in a game like FE6. I think he has a perfectly viable case against Lucius, as has been discussed extensively in the past (I'll dig up the posts again if someone wants), and Lucius is supposedly better than Harken.

In short, I'd prefer to see both of them rise, particularly Fiora.

Dorcas vs Hawkeye: Hawkeye's your best combat unit for a short period of time; Dorcas never is. Even earlygame he has obvious and stiff competition for that title. Hawkeye is overleveled during his period of use, but keep in mind that the same applies to Dorcas. Only Oswin and Marcus are gaining less Exp than Dorcas in the early chapters. So Dorcas > Hawkeye seems pretty questionable, but since they have different periods of use, eh, it's difficult to make accurate comparisons. It depends on how much use Dorcas has after the first 2-3 chapters I think. If he's not useful past Ch 14, then I'd side with Hawkeye. MVP of Genesis is pretty significant.

Bartre vs Jaffar: No comment. Their periods of use are extremely far apart, and both are fundamentally similar units (filler material for a few chapters). I do lean towards Bartre since additional units are more useful during early chapters than Jaffar's later chapters; SoT and NoF already have an unnecessary number of units on the field, particularly SoT. Jaffar would probably have a better case if he could be used on BBD.

[Life]

I think Canas should either be above or below both Peg sisters, not just one of them. Canas is from what I know more comfortable at combat, but Fiora brings a large amount of special flying goodness to the table that even just a slice of the credit for that elevates her position.

Agreed. But both Canas and Fiora are too low anyways. Pent and Harken should probably get re-examined too.

tbh Geitz and Hawkeye seem very similar in many ways, just like Dorcas and Bartre, so maybe they should all be around where Dorcas and Geitz are hanging right now?

Geitz has the Brave Bow and other bows (including the Longbow which ups his range to 3 and actually does damage with him thanks to his high Str) which gives him a proper ranged assault that Hawkeye doesn't have. He also comes with the easier FFO map (not necessarily a pro for him but just mentioning it) and has ridiculous bases thanks to his HHM bonuses.

Bartre and Dorcas are also similar but the Dorcas in Upper Mid argument is basically saying that Dorcas is one of your best melee units when you start the game. However, if you compare Bartre's stats to Dorcas' after a couple of levels, they look similar. Furthermore, other units start catching up to Dorcas after a bit just because nobody doubles anything in the beginning aside from Matthew and Marcus. Once Eli or Lowen start doubling, they begin to destroy Dorcas' offensive edge.

Only Balcerak has properly responded to this before: the problem is probably that there are too many tier gaps. This applies to a ranked list even moreso than efficiency list due to the EXP rank mostly helping units that are bad at everything else. A ranked playthrough is one where pretty much every unit has utility, making it extremely hard to justify even more than one tier gap between anything.

I don't know how to respond with an idea to help alleviate the problem.

Edited March 24, 2010 by Admiral Lifey Crunch

[Colonel M]

I don't know how to respond with an idea to help alleviate the problem.

It's probably best to make less tiers in that scenario. But I can see where it might draw problems as well.

[CATS]

Geitz has the Brave Bow and other bows (including the Longbow which ups his range to 3 and actually does damage with him thanks to his high Str) which gives him a proper ranged assault that Hawkeye doesn't have. He also comes with the easier FFO map (not necessarily a pro for him but just mentioning it) and has ridiculous bases thanks to his HHM bonuses.

Without HHM bonuses, I would likely argue Hawkeye > Geitz in pure stats. Geitz does have a significant edge in AS, but their Str is similar (without HHM bonuses, Hawkeye would be winning in Str) and Hawkeye wins across the board in Hp/Def/Res (in particular, he has over double Geitz's Res; Geitz takes meaningful damage from even unpromoted magic enemies, Hawkeye really doesn't). Hawkeye also has that overkill Con which makes him a better user of the brave axe (probably the best user of it) and higher crit which helps him to more often OHKO enemies that they can't double.

Geitz's B Bows is very nice, I agree with that as well, but so is Hawkeye's performance in Ch 23-23x. Geitz is never as useful in any individual chapter as Hawkeye is in those two, Genesis particularly.

Bartre and Dorcas are also similar but the Dorcas in Upper Mid argument is basically saying that Dorcas is one of your best melee units when you start the game. However, if you compare Bartre's stats to Dorcas' after a couple of levels, they look similar. Furthermore, other units start catching up to Dorcas after a bit just because nobody doubles anything in the beginning aside from Matthew and Marcus. Once Eli or Lowen start doubling, they begin to destroy Dorcas' offensive edge.

Yeah, Bartre and Dorcas seem too far apart. I'll just quote something I posted elsewhere on the FE7 board.

L7 Dorcas has 4.2 more Hp and 0.4 more Str than Bartre, and the same Def. Bartre gets doubled by like 2-3 enemies max in Ch 12 and 13. 13x is worse, but alot of the enemies doubling Bartre (sword enemies) can also double Dorcas, and both suck against those enemies due to the inability to hit them, so they shouldn't be taking their attacks anyway if you can help it. Meanwhile, Bartre gains about twice as much Exp as Dorcas does. By Ch 14, L6 Bartre has small Str/Def wins over L9 Dorcas, and he's not getting doubled anymore.

[Dat Nick]

And yet Geitz does have HM bonuses, so arguing that Hawkeye>Geitz without HM bonuses is meaningless. This isn't a NM list.

oh and

Scr00b, why can't you and others understand anything?

Do all of Priscilla's partners have a 100% chance of being in play? No, they don't. Plenty of people may play the game and go for S ranks without any top tiers at all (that's what I like doing) or just not use Erk. Whatever, you should get the point. You assuming that all of Priscilla's partners are in play 100% of the time is much dumber than me assuming Oswin can snag a C or B with her sometimes.

I love how you got so caught up into making your own inane point about PRISCILLAS PARTNERS ARENT ALWAYS IN PLAY, that you completely forgot to address the point I actually made, which is that OswinxPriscilla is too goddamn slow to be considered viable, no matter if her better options are in play or not. If none of Bartre's supports except Canas are in play, that doesn't mean Bartre/Canas support happens by default.

You've still got a ways to go.

Edited March 24, 2010 by s Portsman

[Florete]

My level assumptions aren't inaccurate. They're what happens in my S rank playthroughs. *shrug* That's all I can say about that.

Proof or it's BS.

They can kill her in one hit without a critical, rofl. The Shamans kill in two. They all have extremely good Hit. Anything with Luna is like the worst possible enemy for her to face.

Then it leads to the bolded:

And Priscilla's massive Luck says she likely already doesn't care much for Luna Druids, or if she does it won't be helping her.

So you've just told me that Priscilla x Oswin is a one-sided support. Way to shoot yourself in the foot.

What I meant is that all of Oswin's supports give full Crit Evd besides Dorcas and that even that one gives partial Crit Evd. He's getting it no matter who he supports.

Then why the hell do you keep trying to give him Priscilla?

I'd like to say that I pointed out that units given similar treatment will not just do the same as Oswin; they'll be outperforming him.

That works too.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

A couple of things:

1. Two Years Tennis Experience (TYTE). No more use of this as it's indirectly calling Inui "Horio" and done to annoy him.

2. Refrain from making personal attacks at other users. Even if they're warranted. They're not necessary.

3. Flame baiting. If you see stuff like...

Scr00b, why can't you and others understand anything?

calling/referencing of Inui as "Horio" and such, report it. Don't take part in it, don't take the bait. Next time this is seen, your warn bars will do the talking.

PM if you have questions or comments.

Edited March 24, 2010 by Speedwagon

[Life]

I was talking to Port about Merlinus and we basically came to a consensus about the whole idea of tiering him.

One of the most controversial arguments here is crediting Matt for the Silver Card. However, getting the Silver Card helps your Funds and since Matt is the only one who can get it and stealing it (pressing Steal when beside Aion) is like stealing a Vulnerary (pressing Steal when beside a random mook with a stealable Vulnerary), Matt is credited with single-handedly beating the Funds Rank. Makes perfect sense.

This argument then makes no sense when you apply it to Merlinus' current position. If we credit Matthew for stealing (again, why wouldn't we?), then we have to credit Merlinus for holding items, no matter how valuable they are. The thing is, we don't have enough item slots on our units for Merlinus to always hold nothing. And furthermore, it'd be near impossible to buy items at shops since you need open slots to do that and after the five slots are filled, the next one goes to Merlinus. So technically, if Matt is god when it comes to Funds, Merlinus is God's pimp as his holding items is like Matthew and Legault's stealing. Which calls for an auto top of the list.

You can probably see why this is stupid because we're giving Merlinus top spot just because the convoy has a name. So my personal opinion is to remove him from the list all together. Again, I don't do anything unless we all generally agree on it.

EDIT: I've never called Inui "Horio" or "TYTE" here but damn, I wish that the mods here were more like GameFAQs. The ones who don't give a crap about anything but if a topic has nothing to do with a board, at least.

No offense to any of the mods here as you're doing your jobs and I respect you for it. I'm just saying that I wish the incompetent GameFAQs mods in general existed here.

Edited March 24, 2010 by Admiral Lifey Crunch

[Florete]

You can probably see why this is stupid because we're giving Merlinus top spot just because the convoy has a name. So my personal opinion is to remove him from the list all together. Again, I don't do anything unless we all generally agree on it.

That's a better way of putting my previous argument for it. I agree.

[Interceptor]

You can probably see why this is stupid because we're giving Merlinus top spot just because the convoy has a name. So my personal opinion is to remove him from the list all together. Again, I don't do anything unless we all generally agree on it.

I maintain that equal treatment for all ULE (Unit-Like Entities) is called for in this situation. If Merlinus makes the cut for S-ranking, I don't really see how we can deny the same recognition to Arena, Snag, Forest, etc. Especially the first of those, in terms of benefit for EXP and Funds ranks.

[CATS]

I was talking to Port about Merlinus and we basically came to a consensus about the whole idea of tiering him.

I don't understand your logic for why he would auto-top the tier list. Matthew auto-tops because he steals the silver card, so......Merlinus auto-tops because he holds the silver card? If this is what you're saying, I disagree. If it isn't, then I'm just not sure what you're saying.

Also, if you'd rather take Merlinus off the list than put him at the very top, why the inconsistency? Why is Matt allowed to camp at the top of the list for a similarly powerful and unique contribution, while Merlinus has to be removed?

There's plenty of good arguments for not tiering Merlinus, but they're based on him not showing up on the "Pick Units" screen, not being able to move for the majority of the game, coming back to life after he dies every time, etc, other traits that no other "unit" has. I don't understand your particular argument for it. Could you perhaps explain it a bit more?

[Life]

I don't understand your logic for why he would auto-top the tier list. Matthew auto-tops because he steals the silver card, so......Merlinus auto-tops because he holds the silver card? If this is what you're saying, I disagree. If it isn't, then I'm just not sure what you're saying.

Also, if you'd rather take Merlinus off the list than put him at the very top, why the inconsistency? Why is Matt allowed to camp at the top of the list for a similarly powerful and unique contribution, while Merlinus has to be removed?

There's plenty of good arguments for not tiering Merlinus, but they're based on him not showing up on the "Pick Units" screen, not being able to move for the majority of the game, coming back to life after he dies every time, etc, other traits that no other "unit" has. I don't understand your particular argument for it. Could you perhaps explain it a bit more?

I'm saying that Merlinus auto tops because he holds the Silver Card... and everything else that your units don't want to hold, even after all of your units run out of space. There's a good chance (and by good I mean it happens every single time) that the Funds amount that Merlinus holds at the end of the game exceeds the cost of the weapons and items of the units fighting in Light before they pick up the S Rank weapons. It's part of his "ability" as a unit to hold items. If Merlinus did not exist in this game, I highly doubt that getting 5* in Funds would be possible. Unfortunately, we'll never find out.

What makes Merlinus different from Daniel in FE9 & 10? Nothing. But we don't rank Daniel, do we?

Also, something that I forgot to mention about Merlinus. He can't go shopping in this game. If he's promoted and tries to shop, those items that are in his inventory get stuck in limbo. Believe me, I've tried. Lost out on 4 Silver Swords and a Silver Lance.

EDIT: Auto topping Merlinus makes no sense because he doesn't actually DO anything. He's the convoy with a face on it. That's IT. If he gets ranked, so should Daniel, Jorge, Muston and Aimee in FE9 & 10.

Edited March 24, 2010 by Admiral Lifey Crunch

[nflchamp]

What makes Merlinus different from Daniel in FE9 & 10? Nothing. But we don't rank Daniel, do we?

Maybe someone should go do this. I'd want to see RFoF shoot it down.

[Meteor]

You can probably see why this is stupid because we're giving Merlinus top spot just because the convoy has a name. So my personal opinion is to remove him from the list all together. Again, I don't do anything unless we all generally agree on it.

Considering he doesn't appear in the unit selection list, I think it's pretty safe to leave him off.

[CATS]

I'm saying that Merlinus auto tops because he holds the Silver Card... and everything else that your units don't want to hold, even after all of your units run out of space. There's a good chance (and by good I mean it happens every single time) that the Funds amount that Merlinus holds at the end of the game exceeds the cost of the weapons and items of the units fighting in Light before they pick up the S Rank weapons. It's part of his "ability" as a unit to hold items. If Merlinus did not exist in this game, I highly doubt that getting 5* in Funds would be possible. Unfortunately, we'll never find out.

Remember that you also get 40 something characters capable of holding items even if they're not participating in the battle. At Ch 24, for example, you have 29 units (not counting Geitz) each capable of holding 5 items, for a total of 145 inventory slots before accounting for Merlinus. Even if you have 12 units on the field and none of them have any extra inventory slots open (unlikely; someone like Ninian, for example, will have room to hold a few things), that's still 85 slots left over on units who are just bench-warming. And you can condense your assets into a small number of extremely expensive items; for example, using the 30K from Battle Preparations to just buy a Fell Contract in VoD has the same effect as buying 20 elixirs with it. So I don't buy the argument that you're just totally screwed without Merlinus.

Anyways, if you're saying don't tier him because he's not a unit, or he's only a semi-unit or something, then I don't disagree. If you're saying don't tier him because his contribution is too good, then why is Matthew tiered?

Edited March 24, 2010 by CATS

[nflchamp]

The question is: does Marth get credit for being the convoy in FEDS? As the answer is probably "no", Merlinus isn't a unit and is just a face on a game mechanic.

[Interceptor]

If he gets ranked, so should Daniel, Jorge, Muston and Aimee in FE9 & 10.

Not that I disagree with your basic argument or anything, but cross-list comparisons are a little bit ridiculous. There's no Fire Emblem Tiering Association, lists are all self-contained, and it's especially silly in the case of FE9/FE10 where Ranks don't even enter into it.

[Florete]

Also, something that I forgot to mention about Merlinus. He can't go shopping in this game. If he's promoted and tries to shop, those items that are in his inventory get stuck in limbo. Believe me, I've tried. Lost out on 4 Silver Swords and a Silver Lance.

Actually, you can get them from him in the base. You have to have a character go to the item list from the trade menu and find his items from there. This is also how you can give Afa's Drops to Merlinus so he can use that.

[Narga_Rocks]

Refer to me as Inui. Not a reference to Horio. You can't just call me something else stupid and get away with it. It's the same thing, and the moderators were already pretty clear about it. You should all get infractions imo for continually ignoring warnings and trolling.

Just because I'm tired of seeing the error every time you post about it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infraction

an infraction is the offence, not whatever punishment we may hand out for the infraction. How do you "get" an infraction? You commit an infraction, and receive a punishment.

Oh, and don't minimod. You make the reports (as you have been doing) and then we handle the punishments. You may notice that a mod did make a post reminding everyone not to call you names as a result of your reports.

Read these:

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules

Take careful note of the second rule.

[Florete]

Just because I'm tired of seeing the error every time you post about it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infraction

an infraction is the offence, not whatever punishment we may hand out for the infraction. How do you "get" an infraction? You commit an infraction, and receive a punishment.

Oh, and don't minimod. You make the reports (as you have been doing) and then we handle the punishments. You may notice that a mod did make a post reminding everyone not to call you names as a result of your reports.

Read these:

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules

Take careful note of the second rule.

Another interesting thing is that this "all" he mentioned is, like, Interceptor and Bblade. It's as if he thinks everyone is calling him names now.

[Narga_Rocks]

Another interesting thing is that this "all" he mentioned is, like, Interceptor and Bblade. It's as if he thinks everyone is calling him names now.

And Mekkah, don't forget Mekkah. But still, everyone else (as near as I can tell) has stopped calling him that. Also, aside from Interceptor, nobody else actually defined their acronym.