Parrhesia Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Simple. I don't believe you gave me good criticism. Guess what, though? You're going on my ignore list now. So bub-bye! ^^ Fine. You want flowery criticism? THY ETERNAL ELEGANCY LACKS THE DIVINE BEAUTY OF THE ROSE-PETAL, WHICH LIETH IN ITS SIMPLICITY. THOUGH YONDER CLOUDS DOTH DAMPEN THE WINDSWEPT PLAINS, THE ROSE IS MOST BEAUTESCENT FOR ALL, AS ANY MAN MAY SEE ITS SUPERBITIES. EVEN THOSE WHOM SHIP GEOFFRELINCIA. FORSOOTH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inactive Account Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) but that doesn't mean you can't leave a simple comment or point out an error that you CAN find, even with little knowledge on baking. EXACTLY. What I said is basically that it's possible to know what you're talking about WITHOUT knowing how to actually do something. I can't play a tuba but I can tell my friend he sounds bad because I've had a fair exposure to music-- is it really that implausible that someone who can't necessarily write prose but has read much of anything can spot stylistic or grammatical issues? It's usually pretty easy to spot what not to do. Which is what people have been doing, some bluntly, some not, all in great volume. Just because there are multiple errors that they can find does not mean that they are suddenly wrong. And you've been ignoring all of them. Edited December 2, 2011 by Kiryn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Fine. You want flowery criticism? THY ETERNAL ELEGANCY LACKS THE DIVINE BEAUTY OF THE ROSE-PETAL, WHICH LIETH IN ITS SIMPLICITY. THOUGH YONDER CLOUDS DOTH DAMPEN THE WINDSWEPT PLAINS, THE ROSE IS MOST BEAUTESCENT FOR ALL, AS ANY MAN MAY SEE ITS SUPERBITIES. EVEN THOSE WHOM SHIP GEOFFRELINCIA. FORSOOTH! Can it. If I'm on her ignore list for calling her out on her lack of proper syntax, she's probably put a hit out on you for even MENTIONING Geoffrey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 I'm going to take it as a bad sign that on the same day I make major progress on a fiction I'm writing, some huge argument about critiquing shows up. @ Furetchen Daaaaang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrhesia Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Can it. If I'm on her ignore list for calling her out on her lack of proper syntax, she's probably put a hit out on you for even MENTIONING Geoffrey. Oh, true. I wonder if this applies to Ike being shipped with Soren as w- what am I saying, of course it does. (If I'm honest I forgot what point I was actually trying to make early in the paragraph and just went with it for the hell of it.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybee Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Except he FUCKING DID WHAT IN HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU He told you the grammar was shit, and he showed you how to correct it. He also told you it would be a REALLY GOOD IDEA to delete everything and rewrite it, which qualifies as very good criticism considering how he actually knows what he's talking about. Again, grow up- Wait, what the hell, you're 20? This is the sort of argument I'd see someone half your age make, with all the bawwing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inactive Account Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) Also, jerkassery in criticism can indeed be infuriating, but that doesn't necessarily negate it. There is a threshold past which something is clearly just griping and not legitimate criticism, but I don't know if it's been passed yet, and it certainly wasn't passed early in the feedback thread where the drama began. Jerkassery also has an unfortunate tendency to increase when a writer stubbornly refuses to examine the potential validity of criticism. Shuuda was an ass to me back in the day about my writing and I still don't like him for it-- doesn't mean I never benefited from any of the criticism he gave me. Doesn't mean I agree with all of it either, but when I look back at my older writing, I can definitely see the many and various ways in which it sucks, and some of those ways were pointed out by him. Oh, and be glad he hasn't read this, I think I can safely say he is both more abrasive and less easy to agree with than most of the people who have been posting feedback in this debacle. Edited December 2, 2011 by Kiryn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrhesia Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) Anacybele. The time will soon come for me to put up the first chapter of my new story. It is untitled for now, but suffice to say it takes place in the heavily rewritten world of my previous major project. The chapter goes up tonight, in seven hours. Let's see how you think of my credentials as a writer measure up to your own. Come at me. Edited December 2, 2011 by Furetchen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Also, jerkassery in criticism can indeed be infuriating, but that doesn't necessarily negate it. There is a threshold past which something is clearly just griping and not legitimate criticism, but I don't know if it's been passed yet, and it certainly wasn't passed early in the feedback thread where the drama began. Jerkassery also has an unfortunate tendency to increase when a writer stubbornly refuses to examine the potential validity of criticism. Shuuda was an ass to me back in the day about my writing and I still don't like him for it-- doesn't mean I never benefited from any of the criticism he gave me. Doesn't mean I agree with all of it either, but when I look back at my older writing, I can definitely see the many and various ways in which it sucks, and some of those ways were pointed out by him. Oh, and be glad he hasn't read this, I think I can safely say he is both more abrasive and less easy to agree with than most of the people who have been posting feedback in this debacle. I think it's VERY important to be more concerned with information than what 'ass' is giving it. It's annoying as hell to have people talk negatively or mockingly about anything you put any amount of hard work into, but not everyone is like that. If anyone's going to bother receiving feedback on their work at all, they might want to consider just focusing on the apparent flaw the person is trying to point out, not how they're expressing it. What's more important at the end of the day, improving your writing, or thinking mean thoughts? Also Furetchen, please stay away from my delicate upcoming works. I'm not strong enough for that stuff I wrote up there and will probably cry ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peener weener Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 (edited) okay okay I'm here I hope I'm not late for the party. Yes. There are much more critics than writers. You know why? Every time you read something and make an opinion of it you are criticizing it. It's not a very hard concept to understand. And this is bad because? Oh, it isn't. Also I'm guessing you don't read much because you haven't ever seen brackets in fiction. Really, woman? MOVING on Okay, yes. I will be fucking firm and honest. That's what happened in a certain feedback thread I read. Yes they were fucking firm and honest. And you dismissed it because your egregious little heart decided that no, this is not good, a world wherein people know you're a shitty writer is not good. They are bad critics! Yes, you can pass it off as that. HEY LET'S REPEAT THINGS FIRMNESS AND HONESTY OKAY I GET THE POINT IT WAS A FEW SENTENCES BACK I'M NOT A RETARDED CHILD okay yeah not being afraid of pointing out bad parts is pretty much the point of being honest and firm but okay. OH GOD. "Critique isn't all sugar and candy." Follow your own advice, woman. Jesus fuck. Okay. Okay listen to me for a little bit. I'm a reader. Maybe I can't write for shit, but I'm a reader. And I know when a piece of literature is a catshit fanfic full of commas and self-fantasies. And a cake that tastes like a man puked into a bowl and covered it with bread? Okay, I know that the cake tastes like Lovecraft. The cake tastes like Lovecraft and I have never even baked a cookie. The fact that I have never even baked a cookie doesn't change the fact that the cake can be good or bad. The cake tasted like Lovecraft. And okay the rest of the paragraph was a mindless repeat of what you've already said. You're repeating again. Here's an example of how you're a bad writer. Sure, repetition is a literary resource, but you have to pull it off. You don't. You just sound like an angry kid rambling. "MOMMY HE TOOK MY CANDIES HE'S MEAN BECAUSE HE TOOK MY CANDY SO HE'S MEAN." You don't understand do you. "Observational skills." Okay. I observe your lack of knowledge regarding commas. I observe your lack of skill as a writer. I observe how bad this piece of literature is overall. This is just not good. Tends to happen with fanfics, really. You ever read Twilight? Twilight reads like a self-insert fanfic. For some reason I'm guessing you like Twilight. I'll encourage the person to "keep going" if they're good. I'll tell them to "improve" if they're bad, and I'll point out what they should improve. This was done with your work, and you ignored, went on a fit, and posted this thing. You just have to accept that you aren't a good writer, really. And that initially (as blunt as they might have been) Ciaran and Life were actually trying to help you "improve." Feeling like a miserable failure or not is up to you. If you're gonna take it like a kid and decide that they're just bad critics and you're actually the queen of literature and that everyone should bow to you and gosh you don't know how you aren't president yet, you just have to mature. If you're gonna take it for what it is, criticism, and decide that maybe they're right and maybe you should look back on your work and try to fix your flaws as a writer in the future: kudos. OKAY THAT'S IT. FORSOOTH! Edited December 3, 2011 by Stolypin Necktie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandalphon Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Ok, Honey, Dear, Sweetheart... How do I put this lightly... Your essay was well, not good. Namely because it really negates the point of critique. Critique is not supposed to be fluffy, it's not supposed to be sweet, it's not supposed to make you feel good about your work. It's supposed to make you get better at it. That's the bloody point. If the person critiquing is harsh? All the better. Honesty doesn't need to be sugarcoated. Sometimes, you've got to buck up and drink the bloody cough syrup for the cold of your own shortcomings as a writter to disappear. If they don't point out any positives? Well, that means that they didn't find any. It's not like saying "well, you chose an interesting typeface" or "Your character's name means blue. I like blue" is going to make them like your story any more than sprinkling salt on a mouldy cheese sandwich will make it appetising again. Does a rough critique hurt at first? Yes. Was I a little butthead when I first got critique on my artwork? Yes. But you know what, darling? I look back now and I see that, surprise surprise, EVERYTHING THEY SAID WAS RIGHT. ALL OF IT. And you know what? I took what they said to heart, and my work got a million times better. With more work and more crit, it will get a million times better than it is now. Critique is made for improvement. Not for coddling you, not for making you feel good about your stuff, not to give you that gold star for participating. If you can't improve, get out now before you make a bigger fool of yourself. People critique you because they believe you can improve. If they didn't, they would just click that little red X in the corner of their browser window. If you choose to ignore them because "oh, they're jealous" or "oh, My friend's teacher's hamster's groomer's great aunt said my fanfic was good", then you're just going to stay in the lovely country of Mediocrestan... And no one will care. You either get off the Autobahn, or get pulverised by the ones who took their time to grease their engines. Sorry to be so blunt, but sweetie, that's how it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliban of Sycorax Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Simple. I don't believe you gave me good criticism. Guess what, though? You're going on my ignore list now. So bub-bye! ^^ get out. get the FUCK out. If you think this is going to solve your problems and make you a better writer, you are HORRIBLY MISTAKEN. Not all criticisms are going to help you, but, clearly, in your mind, NONE are helping you. You cannot prove that until you've looked at them, and applied them. If you see no improvement, then, guess what? IT'S NOT GOOD CRITICISM! YAY! But you're clearly too ignorant to do that. Congrats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peener weener Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 okay I wanna keep going can I keep going this is fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balcerzak Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Content aside, the essay struck me as fairly well written and followed the rule of three. The introduction performed its job, outlining the points to be covered; the body fleshed out these points; and the conclusion... Well, actually the conclusion was pretty weak, and seemed to reveal an ulterior motive to the essay, to be perfectly honest. If the conclusion were re-written, removing what appears to be shilling, and perhaps slightly expanded, I feel this essay as a whole would actually be much improved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Anacybele. The time will soon come for me to put up the first chapter of my new story. It is untitled for now, but suffice to say it takes place in the heavily rewritten world of my previous major project. The chapter goes up tonight, in seven hours. Let's see how you think of my credentials as a writer measure up to your own. Come at me. AND YOU DIDN'T TELL ME? I AM INSULTED! Ahem. . . For someone who likes brushing off critique, I'm not sure if I even want to read this. It strikes me as hypocritical, for lack of a better word. If you're not willing to take suggestions to heart, then why do you ask for them, let alone write something about how to make suggestions? I'm not the best writer, and my lone work in this section's not yet done (I haven't figured out how to do the next part without making myself nauseous). However, if you want to use your own guidelines to critique it, I will be more than happy to see what you think a proper critique is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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