Grandjackal's FE13 HM Playlog!

[Redwall]

You don't need to waste any turns training Chrom, who is currently strong enough to beat Grima reliably; it's more effective to attack Grima using Brave weapons with the intent of scoring Dual Strikes with the Exalted Falchion than it is to straight-up attack with a Falchion user (due to Pavise blocking normal attacks but not Dual Strikes).

[grandjackal]

Chapter 19

Dracoshield given to Cynthia. Energy Drop given to Yarne (He was on the cusp of ORKOing mounted units, this lets me never have to bother giving him Str tonics).

This chapter is probably the easiest 2 turn ever because you can just walk up and Walhart will kill himself. For the most part, it's pretty much an exp map while trying to clear the central path out.

....No seriously, that's all I have to say.

Turns: 2

Levels

UNIT             LEVEL    HP ST MG SK SP LC DF RS WEXP                  SUPPORT
Avatar       20/01.00    47 21 23 24 34 25 14 23 E Sword, A Tome       S Chrom, C Fred, C Gregor, B Anna, A Morgan, C Lucina
Chrom       20/03.11    41 23 03 21 25 19 17 11 A Sword               S Avatar, A Lucina, C Morgan
Frederick     11/6.36    51 27 06 26 17 13 27 07 A Lance, A Axe          S Sumia, C Avatar, C Cynthia
Vaike            20/5.48    76 30 05 29 27 20 19 03 A Axe                 B Sully, S Panne, C Yarne
Sumia          20/12.62    55 20 09 31 34 24 15 15 A Lance               S Fred, C Cynthia
Miriel           14.54    28 01 17 13 13 14 07 10 C Tomes               C Sully, B Lonqu, C Henry
Cherche       20/5.36    48 27 04 23 20 15 27 06 B Axe              B Gregor
Panne            25.85    47 21 03 20 26 16 18 08                       S Vaike
Gregor         10/1.15    53 22 00 15 20 11 13 05 C Axe                 C Nowi, C Avatar, B Cherche
Libra           ??/12.01    50 18 19 21 20 13 13 22 B Axe B Staff     B Tharja
Tharja          20/11.27    55 12 24 20 27 15 26 15 A Tomes     B Libra
Anna           ??/11.09    43 16 22 28 26 35 10 13 B Swords C Staffs
Henry            16.35     32 08 15 16 12 11 15 06 C Tomes C Miriel
Lucina        20/2.49     59 33 12 27 30 29 28 13 A Swords C Avatar, B Chrom, C Morgan
Morgan        20/12.94     66 20 30 31 33 37 25 26 A Tomes A Avatar, C Chrom, C Lucina
Cynthia        10/3.80     42 19 06 26 28 18 17 16 B Lance D Staff C Fred C Sumia
Yarne        11.30     51 19 03 16 16 16 16 04 C Panne C Vaike

Vaike support makes Yarne perfectly usable, especially in this map due to many mounts. I didn't give him a front position, and I'm thinking maybe I should have.

Forgot to reclass Avatar before the map, not that it made any difference.

Cherche finally hits level 5 for Quick Burn, so I'm going to do Gerome's map next. God, he's going to have awful stats.

Cynthia with Fred's support is much like her mother. Maybe not...quite as good (lacking HP in comparison), she's still perfectly fine. Hell, she'll probably outpass Sumia in Def and Str eventually. Hey, she's practically tied up with her offensively as it is.

I probably am not going to get Lifetaker and Renewal any time soon. I usually get them real quick, but I wasn't focusing them as hard this time/Wasn't being as staff abusive. Eh, whatever. Noire is pretty much the Nino of this game anyways, just wanted to have a lol skill combo.

Edited April 12, 2013 by grandjackal

[grandjackal]

FUCK!!!!

So I was doing a dry practice run of Gerome's chapter, right? A lot of people ended up dead, cause I planned on redoing it.

...I accidentally saved over my current file.

GRrgh...

Ehh, whatever. Chapter 20 is pretty much the last big chapter in the game, and most of the rest are really easy boss snipes. I can at least tell you timings from here on that are reasonable.

After 20 and maybe Noire's chapter, Sumia would get Galeforce and go Falcoknight. She would probably have 22-24 Str by then, and with Fred's support she would probably be able to do snipes herself with some Rally help. Aversa's last chapter definitely comes to mind. With a level 5 Cynthia giving all the Rally power I would need (or a level 5 Avatar. Seeing as I was level 3 coming out of Gerome's map, that would be realistic as a similar timing), Sumia and Fred could probably do most of these boss snipe maps themselves.

Morgan would hit 15 maybe after Noire's chapter, and then the world would be over. He alone would probably destroy Validar's chapter along with Mirehall Mayhem.

Chrom hit 5 at the end of Gerome's chapter, so from there it would basically be Lucina's show to get as big as she can just so that I would have the ability to land Double Falchion Aether on Grima when the time came. Pointless yes, but it would have been funny.

The rest...Well, they were pretty much Rescue bots or auxillery combat. Their timings were already done, and all that had to be done with them is fight with them as one would normally.

My next post will be my thoughts on my experiments and progress.

Edited April 11, 2013 by grandjackal

[Interceptor]

Yikes, that sucks. At least you got through the hardest parts of the run.

[grandjackal]

Chrom and Fematar

Yeah, that's a very potent pairing. Chrom doesn't see a lot of action at some point, though I perhaps focused too hard on their support. It will build automatically, I probably shouldn't be so worried. It would have resulted in Lucina getting a better start I imagine. However, the results were fair enough, and Chrom makes a good support for Lucina anyways. She goes cav, and pretty much builds directly to Great Knight and...Well, you see her stats. Chrom doesn't really need super serious training once Lucina appears. As for Morgan, well uhhhhh...The results speak for themselves. Once he goes Dark Knight, he would have been unquestionable.

I'm actually going to say this: I like this better than ChromxSully. You get 2 kids out of them with Veteran anyways, and the both of them are raw out powerful untis. Lucina, thanks to cav access and her loltastic Silver Sword Falchion, and Morgan cause...Well, because Dark Mage.

Sumia and Fred

I think the results speak for themselves. They were the most effective units on my team until Lucina got big and Morgan showed up, but even then they easily were second or third. Sumia's strength is that she is so fast, she benefits most from something purely durable and strength oriented in a support. Even once you go into lategame, she needs no support to double. This means she can give her monsterous speed buff to generally anyone that may need it while Fred can put his buffness on Cynthia, to whom I will say I was not disappointed. That triple rally would have proved highly effective in the lategame. Verily I am glad I went Dark Flier with Sumia if only for that. As for Galeforce, it would have proven useful in maybe 2 maps at best. Everyone hyping Galeforce: Stop.

As for Fred, his supports with Sumia and his daughter were keeping him on the ball, though without the Naga Tear I'd probably be questioning that. By the time Cynthia came along, he didn't really needto be in the action anways, so I probably could have given it to someone else (like Cynthia actually. Probably would have proved more potent than the additional stats to Fred's bases, having to eat a /3 through transtion). I'd probably say that the Naga Tear is probably best saved for a child character to fix their typically awful start if promotion or reclassing proves stupid. Yarne comes to mind if you're keeping him as a Taguel.

Vaike

I was viciously screwed with him real early on, so my thoughts on his earlygame are a tad scewed. Once he hit Barbarian though, he was pretty much fixed and became a quick star. He worked well with Panne who stayed Taguel, allowing her to slay mounted units with ease, to which this game has a lot. Once he had his critstack skills, wth a Killer Axe he even helped Panne make some typically impossible kills and helped her avoid counters for player phase actions. Bt of a gamble, but with Panne's evasion she was having pretty good odds. The only thing they didn't prove to be was to mobile. 6 move is fine, but 7-8 move is pretty easy to make happen fr a majority of the cast, so you could feel it. It's Yarne's only problem with this pairing. With that Energy Drop and +5 HP, he was pretty much just as good as his mother except he was 15 levels back so he had would end up growing faster and become better in the end. Had Panne gone Wyvern, it probably would have worked out fine if I didn't have so many class change dependent characters so early. I wasn't that upset with Vaike or the pairing in the end, but it does have it's flaws. Speaking of class change wanting characters...

Gregor

Just promote him. I don't know how well Myrmidon works, but going Barbarian definitely wasn't doing him favors. For the most part, it's hard to find time to use him instead of his support partner because he is that good of a support. It's mindboggling really. He's really hard to talk about, because I feel like I used him wrong. I mean, it wasn't bad, but I was trying too hard to feed him when there was just no good opportunities for him as a Barbarian. Being a Hero or a Ranger probably would prove better and just using him as an amazing short term support. Most support him with Nowi since due to his arriving chapter it's so easy to just get them to C off the bat. Seeing as how Nowi doesn't need even MORE defense, one could go Ranger with Gregor and now Nowi has 7 move. Isn't that fantastic? You could just concentrate solely on Nowi and she'd be even better than what you see in Interceptors log!

So, I can't speak accurately for Gregor because I clearly used him wrong. I can at least say that Barbarian is a bad choice. Worked ok for Cherche, but Gerome turned out pure garbage. If you want to support Cherche, just use Lonqu instead. He has a lot more to train up solo before her arrival, he'll need far less time in the spotlight. It'll grant Gerome far better bases too. For me, Gerome was about as useful as a poopy flavored lolipop with this pairing.

Miriel and Henry

They wound up victims to Too Many Units syndrome, and I couldn't give the the exp they needed. Because of this, I just dropped them eventually. It doesn't help that Miriel's start is 100% atrocious. When I could point out ways that Virion could prove more useful, your start blows.I probably should have just promoted her off the bat. Her performance unpromoted is so underwhelming that it would be way to late if I were to wait till she hit 20, not to mention that would just mean Henry is equally as screwed since that would have been 2 units I needed to feed. I regret these two, because it was a lot of squandered exp.

Consider the test of these two as inconclusive.

So...That pretty much concludes my playthrough. It ended abruptly due to my own stupidity, but I got enough done to prove a good deal of my points. Gregor and Miriel wound up inconclusive, but I think the record shows well that Sumia and Fred are no jokes even once one hits lategame simply because the support is that potent.

Thanks all for paying attention to my run and all your feedback! Was quite fun to do! I encourage others to do their own playlogs, if only so we have a good deal of data to work off of.

Also, I will be giving my level data to the Growth Project.

[MercuryHg34]

Great info, sorry it had to end that way. At least next time you can focus some more on Miriel and Henry, as well as some others. I enjoyed following this, and I look forward to your next one.

[PKL]

"Everyone hyping Galeforce: stop"

You didnt get it early enough for it to matter. It is really OP.

[grandjackal]

So, I'm probably going to do another playthrough log, but this time I wanna try different characters. I have proven my point with Fred and Sumia, and did a little research on Vaike and Gregor. For the most part, mission accomplished. I messed up on Miriel and Henry, so I might try her again.

Any suggestions? I've done a bit f research on Stahl and now knowing how to properly use him I no longer really think of him as garbage. I also have used Virion to startlingly good results. I'd talk more about him, but I'd come off as crazy because it involves a Sully support (Hey, from what me and Interceptor are experiencing, I'm pretty sure Fematar is going to outpace Manatar,and for the most part you want to pair her with Chrom, so...) and an ASAP promotion to Bow Knight.

I'm willing to give Donnel a shot. In fact, lemme do some math. One of the things Interceptor brought up was not training Donnel at all and just using him to pass Aptitude to Avatar's kid. Kinda wanna do math on that.

Hm...I think the difference between ust having Avatar used purely and splitting some exp between Avatar and Donnel is a minor issue at best. Due to the /3 nature of base stat inheritance, it could easily be assumed that if all of that exp Donnel uses goes to Avatar instead, she could make up for a portion of the difference due to Veteran. At worst, you'd have to give Morgan the Naga Tear and you'd get Interceptor's results anyways. I just might try this out...Thing with Donnel is that Fematar is his only real pairing. Everyone else usually has a flaw that needs patching through a support, while Avatar's problem is that supporting someone actually worth a damn camps both their style. The other could be gaining exp, and Avatar could be gaining more from something more one sided. Donnel's support is so bad that it makes other people bad, and Avatar is in a unique position to not care. I may very well end up doing this if only to try it out.

Suppose this leaves Chrom with Sully then. I'm going to make Kjelle, and it is going to be glorious.

So, my earlyteam is pretty lean, and the three big ones are super solid options. Hmmm...Ahh yes. Panne and Gaius along with Lonqu and Cherche! Two pairings I always dig, and yet at least one doesn't sound all that believable. The thing between Panne and Gaius is that Gaius allows Panne to go Wyvern due to speed support and +1 Move. I'll probably reclass him to Myrm, and as for why to use both, Panne and Gaius are characters that with reclass will basically always level fast. It's also easy to argue it as a one sided support however, much as I would prefer otherwise if only so I could give Yarne +1 Move instead of Locktouch...As for Lonqu, the fact that they are so far apart in joining time is what makes them good. Lonqu gets a good long time to train in the mountains so that when Cherche shows up, he doesn't have this issue where one is trying to hog the other's screen time. In the end I'm rewarded with a Gerome who actually doesn't suck, and has Tantivity, Quick Burn, and Avoid+10 for lulzy avoid. That or I just work for Deliverer, then drop Cherche for her son so that Lonqu can make him a beast while he goes a better class and gets Quick Burn anyways. Lonqu could reclass to Assassin after getting Swordfaire and grant Gerome some stupid dope movement.

Any thoughts though or suggestions, seriously? Cause I'm all ears.

[eclipse]

Can you shove Cordelia in there, somehow? You did Sumia/Fred, and that's a personal favorite of mine; now try the other flying horse thing. Hmmm. . .since you used Vaike last run, how 'bout pairing her with Kellam, and see how that goes?

[Firefly]

Stahl x Cordelia, perhaps? Sounds like it could be a nice mutually beneficial pairing - Stahl gets a speed boost he could really use, and if he goes Great Knight, Cordelia gets good Str/Def bonuses. It would be interesting to see what would happen if you reclass Stahl to Swordmaster late in the game as well.

[grandjackal]

Can you shove Cordelia in there, somehow? You did Sumia/Fred, and that's a personal favorite of mine; now try the other flying horse thing. Hmmm. . .since you used Vaike last run, how 'bout pairing her with Kellam, and see how that goes?

Hmmmm....I'm not entirely sure. Issue with Cordelia is that you have to prep someone up for her, notably Stahl or Kellam. Issue is, I wanna prep Lonqu which chances are I will pair him with Kellam in the meantime. This pretty much also means no Stahl, cause you can't have Kellam without Stahl and vice versa. I would rather not use Vaike again, I already have Panne and Gaius to add to the load...Honestly, with the plans I know I wanna do, that would be more trouble than it's worth.

Stahl x Cordelia, perhaps? Sounds like it could be a nice mutually beneficial pairing - Stahl gets a speed boost he could really use, and if he goes Great Knight, Cordelia gets good Str/Def bonuses. It would be interesting to see what would happen if you reclass Stahl to Swordmaster late in the game as well.

It works well, but the problem is that both units still want exp, and Cordelia needs exp badly because her start is so dependent on a good starting point. Stahl's good, but he kinda interrupts what she needs. This is why I prefer Kellam, he hits 10, promotes, then it's all Cordelia. That, and Defense Cry combines well with Speed Rally for passing down to Severa.

That being said, no Cordelia this time around. That being said, you all might get a very special treat this time around...

Who wants to see me get Inigo? Cause I'm starting to like Sully+Fred.

[eclipse]

Hmmmm....I'm not entirely sure. Issue with Cordelia is that you have to prep someone up for her, notably Stahl or Kellam. Issue is, I wanna prep Lonqu which chances are I will pair him with Kellam in the meantime. This pretty much also means no Stahl, cause you can't have Kellam without Stahl and vice versa. I would rather not use Vaike again, I already have Panne and Gaius to add to the load...Honestly, with the plans I know I wanna do, that would be more trouble than it's worth.

It works well, but the problem is that both units still want exp, and Cordelia needs exp badly because her start is so dependent on a good starting point. Stahl's good, but he kinda interrupts what she needs. This is why I prefer Kellam, he hits 10, promotes, then it's all Cordelia. That, and Defense Cry combines well with Speed Rally for passing down to Severa.

That being said, no Cordelia this time around. That being said, you all might get a very special treat this time around...

Who wants to see me get Inigo? Cause I'm starting to like Sully+Fred.

Inigo? SURE! Just 'cause his birthday's really close to mine.

[grandjackal]

Inigo? SURE! Just 'cause his birthday's really close to mine.

I'm happy to oblige then. Consider it a birthday gift ^^

In the meantime...

GOOD NEWS, EVERYONE!

Who wants to hear how I 6-7 turned Donnel's chapter while getting him a level...Easily? Oh who am I kidding, you ALL want to! Best part is, it doesn't even require tonics or a leveled unit!

You see those 3 enemies that are just north of your starting position? You'll want to keep some melee unit around, a ranged attacker (Miriel or Virion works), Kellam, and of course our astute pothead.

Here's what you do.

Pair up Kellam with Donnel so that Kellam has a much needed acc boost. Keep the other two units nearby but out of attack range. Have Kellam sit on a forest, preferrably one more forward so that your ranged attacker can reach the northside in time to pull an archer before your cavalier of choice decides to punch the boss's dick off. Enemy Phase, the Barbarian, Thief and Archer attack Kellam, which does nothing. You must hit both attacks. The Barbarian you kill with your ranged and melee attacker (For me, this was Chrom), and the Thief will sustain enough damage that Donnel, free of tonic uses, can hit the Thief for the kill. The Archer usually goes for your ranged fighter (another reason I suggest Miriel, to further tempt him. Seems the issue is defense, and both Virion and her have terrible defense). You can attack him again with your melee unit or Miriel/Virion, or you can just move ahead and just pull the archer again while you just have your ranged attacker run for the north. Whatever the case, weaken the archer somehow for Donnel to kill.

Two kills. 60+45 often is more than 100, and so Donnel gets his level.

Most of these characters are also thankfully not the pacemakers of this map, those being Sumia and Fred in some shape or form. Usually it would be Fred and Sumia paired together, but I went something more fun.

Avatar with Sumia, and Fred with Sully.

Sully gets +1 Move, something you normally don't make use of with Sumia since there are archers eveywhere. Turn 1 you just want to position Avatar with use of flight to attack the Barbarian on the pillars tile, and Sully moves in to trade him or her into a sword while she kills with...Well, any weapon works. Whoever it is better be able to use a Javelin and either be Fred or be paired with him. Basically the idea is to tear up the Barbarians in the middle room so that you can move to pull the Hand Axe Barbarian and/or the Archer away so that your mount can rush to the boss. I had a unique Avatar (+Strength -Luck), so while killing Barbarians was dead simple, killing ranged attackers was a matter on how good a mood Sumia was in (hint: not very). If I had gone Magic instead of Str (don't ask me why, I dunno what I was thinking either), I think I might have been able to do this faster than 6 turns doing it this way.

Donnel would still be recruited too. So to everyone that says Donnel costs turns to recruit, stop. He costs two kills, and nothing more. All you need is for Kellam to exist.

As for Donnel in the rest of the game?....Well, that's a different story. Not that I care, he's staying in Avatar's pocket and he's staying there. Fuck trying to train this idiot.

[MercuryHg34]

Gah, if only I knew this a day or two ago. Will keep in mind for the future, though.

As for StahlxCordelia, I am already testing that couple in my log but you are free to do it as well for a second opinion. Same for Lon'quxCherche. I may as well do PannexGaius too since Panne currently has no partner on my log and I have room for one more unit.

Basically you can do whatever you want, but I will have these covered in my log so you don't have to it you don't want to.

Edited April 12, 2013 by MercuryHg34

[aku chi]

Might it be better to pair Lon'qu with Vaike instead of Kellam (before Cherche arrives)? Kellam gives a little more Def at the start, but Vaike can actually support with Lon'qu, and so should be more helpful later on. If you can get a support rank per 2 chapters, that's C by C6, B by Paralogue 3, and A by C9. At which point, Vaike will be giving at least +7 Str and +4 Def and dual striking frequently (especially useful when Lon'qu gets Vantage).

Edited April 12, 2013 by aku chi

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

So, will Frederick does just as well if he is paired with Cordelia instead?(and vice versa)

[MercuryHg34]

I would think so, only it would take longer to get him going since you passed up several chapters of support with Sumia to accomplish this.

[PKL]

Jackal: Well, he costs turns still since Ive been able to 4 and 5 turn the map before

Edited April 12, 2013 by CordeliaxFrederick

[Interceptor]

Donnel would still be recruited too. So to everyone that says Donnel costs turns to recruit, stop. He costs two kills, and nothing more. All you need is for Kellam to exist.

That's a nice strategy, and kudos for coming up with it, but your conclusion does not follow: Donnel still costs turns, you're just minimizing the effect by feeding him the kills more efficiently. Using Kellam, Miriel and Chrom isn't all that different from using Avatar, Fred, and Sumia (how I did it), except the former units are less valuable for clear than the latter.

[grandjackal]

Jackal: Well, he costs turns still since Ive been able to 4 and 5 turn the map before

The only reason I didn't 5 turn the map is because of my Avatar build having kept me from killing the likes of the Hand Axe barb and the archer, which would have unclogged the way for Sully. Had I gone magic instead of strength, I'd be 5 turning for certain.

There's also the fact that in that time, I still would have gotten Donnel his level.

Did you get the Rescue staff in that time as well? Just curious, since that thing saves more turns than it would cost getting it if you didn't.

Edited April 12, 2013 by grandjackal