Changes in Landmasses (Archanea -> Ylisse)

[euklyd]

Warning - Wall of Text Follows

So, in the "The Next Ylisse Game" thread, changes in landmass between the Archanea/Akaneia games and Awakening were being discussed. Someone pointed out that the dramatic shifts between the two could not be explained simply by 2000 years of continental drift.

As much as I love de-railing topics, I'm gonna create my own vanity thread to discuss explanations for these shifts instead of de-railing a discussion about possibilites for the FE14.

Anyways, what follows is simply speculation, and as such is intended more for people to have fun with than anything that actually matters to plot or whatever else.

--- (much of what follows is cut-and-pasted from my post in the other thead) ---

I agree on this. Though instead of less weathered, it more looks like that the sea-level dropped. This is even noticeable between Valentia and Valm, especially on the northern area of the continent.

Well, Hatari was still on the Tellian landmass, so I wouldn't say if it can really count. At least not as a new continent.

The Tellius games did state that everything else but Tellius was flooded - maybe the flood merely isolated an extremely large landmass into separate "continents," and floodwaters are still receding (slowly). That would also explain why Ylisse might look like Archanea/Akaneia with a lower sea-level.

But then I had a different, (perhaps) better theory:

Hmm, looking at the actual maps of Ylisse and Archanea, I get the impression that while sea-levels may or may not have dropped, landmasses certainly did a lot of moving around.

Even more apparent looking at Valm and Valentia, IMO. (All 4 links are images of the continents in question)

My best explanation is that when Grima made his first appearance during the first War of the Exalt, he ravaged the world to such an extent that the landmasses themselves were changed - what a badass, huh?

This would be sort of like Middle-earth's War of Wrath, which destroyed and sunk Beleriand (basically, the entire northwestern part of Middle-earth - link is an image), or a less dramatic Golden Sun event from the eponymous series of games (which I love very much).

My apologies if someone already posted this theory; if they did, I must've missed it.

[spoiler=Relevant links]Archanea

Ylisse

Valentia

Valm

-----

So, what do you all think caused the shifts? Continental drift? Massive wars? Aftereffects of Ashunera's flood? Naga sneezing?

Feel free to discuss any other implications/assumptions of either theory, such as the first assuming that the Tellius games (FE9, 10) take place in the same world as Fire Emblems 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 11, 12, and 13.

And please don't say "Shut up Euklyd, it's just a game" - if nobody cares, this thread will whither and die on its own, and won't need your help.

inb4Shut-up-Euklyd-it's-just-a-game

Edited June 7, 2013 by Euklyd

[Ragingrob13]

Alright I've seen this discussed many a time before but the tellius games stated that the world was flooded maybe Ylisse was on the other side of the world assuming the flooding was caused by a tsunami which are caused by earthquakes it may have caused the massive land changes and the formation of Valm

[LiquidMetal91]

It could be a full flood (like Noah) changing the earth due to ocean currents. Though mountains and masses with a high enough altitude would stay in tact, it would prove some of the massive changes. Ocean currents aren't as massive in power as continental drifts or even tectonic drifts. Looking at maps provided it would support my theory.

Underneath the wall of Ylisse, the upper left part, in Archanea there is a definite lower amount of land mass here, yet if you look at Ylisse itself it's nearly filled in. This could be triggered by the closing of a narrow gap, resulting in the "drying of the sea". This has happened to the Mediterranean Sea before, where the entire sea became land (which in term, resulted in the Dead Sea's high salinity). It could all be possible, but I can't say on the time period here. My example took near 40.000 years to happen. Both the start and the recovery. (fun fact, its supposed to happen again within a few centuries).

But it's still the artist and creators opinion, it isn't like they actually looked at the weather effects etc. when creating Ylisse. Or at least, that's what I think. I wouldn't be bothered by that when creating a world map :D

[Melonhead]

Hey that was me

It could very well have something to do with Grima, more likely to do with the Artists just redesigning the continents.

I like the idea of a flood or differing sea levels, and looking at the maps, the sea levels do seem to get lower-Plegia's area was an island.

[Acacia Sgt]

Looking at at least Archanea and Ylisse side by side, it's kinda a combination of both dropping sea-levels and continental drift. What I'd wonder more would be the former, though I can't say if it can be linked just like that to the Tellian flood.

[Anacybele]

If landmasses moved around a lot in just one thousand years, FE plate tectonics work a hell of a lot faster than ours.

[BlueFire]

If there was a massive flood or earthquake since Marth's time, don't you think the characters would mention such a thing?

[Djeets]

Probably Grima screw up the whole continent in first exalt's timeline,,

i mean, he's huge mountain-sized dragon~~ (even freddy approves that)

[Chiki]

If landmasses moved around a lot in just one thousand years, FE plate tectonics work a hell of a lot faster than ours.

You've finally said something I agree with.

[Anacybele]

You've finally said something I agree with.

Uh, okay? Your point is?

[Jotari]

If there was a massive flood or earthquake since Marth's time, don't you think the characters would mention such a thing?

If it happened two and half thousand years before most of the cast was born, I doubt they'd have much cause to mention it.

[Klokinator]

People still talk about, you know, Noah. And the ark. And the flood.

It's been like 6,000 years for us too.

[BlueFire]

In-game they recognize Marth and Minerva, so it's not as if they're clueless to their history. TBH I think IS doesn't have an explanation as to why they look alike.

[Jotari]

People still talk about, you know, Noah. And the ark. And the flood.

It's been like 6,000 years for us too.

Yes but if you took a sample of dialogue from people speaking today how likely do you think it'd be that were talking about Noah's ark. Just because it happened in the past doesn't mean it's relevant to anything that's currently going on and if it isn't relevant then they won't have much reason to bring it up.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Jotari

[Rewjeo]

If we assume that the maps are how the people view their world, not how it actually looks, then lowering sea levels and changes in how people mapped the continents accounts for everything other than the southeaster Valentian/Valmese island, which would require water levels to rise.

[euklyd]

If we assume that the maps are how the people view their world, not how it actually looks, then lowering sea levels and changes in how people mapped the continents accounts for everything other than the southeaster Valentian/Valmese island, which would require water levels to rise.

This is a very good point; 2000-odd years ago, maps did look very different. A quick search of Wikipedia finds a map of the Mediterranean from circa 600 BCE, and it does look rather different from our modern maps.

As I said, this is a good point.

That being said, I'll procede to ignore it, because I find the idea of a dragon who can reshape the face of the earth SO COOL. Also, I'm a sucker for Tolkien and Golden Sun, and will attempt to link anything and everything to them (I'd do the same for FE, but this is FE).

[Acacia Sgt]

Quite personally, I don't think that's the intention of the maps, to be how the people within perceive the continents to be. They rarely get used by the characters in-game to imply they were made by the people in-game.

[Melonhead]

If we assume that the maps are how the people view their world, not how it actually looks, then lowering sea levels and changes in how people mapped the continents accounts for everything other than the southeaster Valentian/Valmese island, which would require water levels to rise.

This is a very good point and probably finishes the discussion, sans islands like Plegia and Talys.

[Tamanoir]

Quite personally, I don't think that's the intention of the maps, to be how the people within perceive the continents to be. They rarely get used by the characters in-game to imply they were made by the people in-game.

You could says this is the map they uses when they're travelling.

They are used, because they are shown ingame.

[Acacia Sgt]

You could says this is the map they uses when they're travelling.

They are used, because they are shown ingame.

Yes, but mostly is just for the chapter intermissions, so there's no indication that particular map is what they're using.

The only times I remember that those maps get used in-game by the characters themselves was in Radiant Dawn, when Izuka and Soren went talking about their battle strategies, and in Awakening with that map on the back of the support conversation background.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Acacia Sgt

[euklyd]

This is a very good point and probably finishes the discussion, sans islands like Plegia and Talys.

Exactly, if you look at "modern-day" Dolhr/Doluna (Plegia), you can see that while Dolhr was entirely surrounded by ocean, Plegia connects to the main landmass to both its east and north. No matter how much maps changed, nobody is gonna mistake the land connecting Dolhr to the mainland for ocean, same with Talys.

I'm not sure why one would say that the discussion is finished when a very large portion of the puzzle is unaddressed.

I too never recall any of "our" maps being used in-game, although it's certainly possible that I missed something.

[Rewjeo]

If we assume that the maps are how the people view their world, not how it actually looks, then lowering sea levels and changes in how people mapped the continents accounts for everything other than the southeaster Valentian/Valmese island, which would require water levels to rise.

And, on top of that, it's worth pointing out that there are maps in that wikipedia thing (don't remember which ones) where you have weird things going on like Sardinia being attached to Italy or Scandinavia being islands, not to mention one super weird one where Japan looked an awful lot like Iceland does on modern maps, or that one where India appeared to be an island.

Then geological activity (earthquake, tsunami, volcano) could explain that last island's change.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Rewjeo

[euklyd]

If we assume that the maps are how the people view their world, not how it actually looks, then lowering sea levels and changes in how people mapped the continents accounts for everything other than the southeaster Valentian/Valmese island, which would require water levels to rise.

And, on top of that, it's worth pointing out that there are maps in that wikipedia thing (don't remember which ones) where you have weird things going on like Sardinia being attached to Italy or Scandinavia being islands, not to mention one super weird one where Japan looked an awful lot like Iceland does on modern maps, or that one where India appeared to be an island.

Then geological activity (earthquake, tsunami, volcano) could explain that last island's change.

I apologize for not addressing your (first) point more directly.

To begin with, you certainly have a good point.

There are several other islands unaccounted for, most notably the one to the west of Plegia (Mercenary Fortress, Shrine of the Sea God) - it certainly shifted position significantly, so there are at least two islands unaccounted for.

Regarding the very inaccurate maps, I am going to see about looking more closely, as my initial, cursory glance isn't turning anything up (although it was a very quick glance).

Edited June 8, 2013 by Euklyd

[Acacia Sgt]

I think you guys are misinterpreting the purpose of the maps. I don't think the game creators would give us misleading maps, considering that the maps are more delivered to us and for our benefit than the characters's...

Edited June 8, 2013 by Acacia Sgt