PAIRINGS The Pairing Thread

[isetrh]

I think I'm covered since Noire is a 77 Speed Sniper with 100% DS. Thank you so much you and everyone who helped me with my team!

This is what I'm using if anyone cares. Suggestions are still welcome, but I'm not asking for any.

Everyone but the two Rally Bots at the end has Limit Breaker.

Sumia x Chrom

Sumia @ Dark Flier

Galeforce/Luna/Tomefaire/All Stats +2

Chrom @ Bow Knight

Dual Strike +/Aggressor/Bowfaire/Hit Rate +20

FeMU x Ricken!Laurent

FeMU @ Dark Flier

Galeforce/Ignis/Luna/Tomefaire

Laurent @ Sage

Aggressor/Tomefaire/Hit Rate +20/All Stats +2

Sumia!Lucina x Ricken!Laurent!Morgan

Lucina @ Dark Flier

Galeforce/Dual Strike +/Aether/Luna

Morgan @ Sage

Galeforce/Aggressor/Tomefaire/Ignis

Chrom!Cynthia x Libra!Owain

Cynthia @ Dark Flier

Galeforce/Tomefaire/Aether/Luna

Owain @ Sage

Galeforce/Aggressor/Tomefaire/Vengeance

Henry!Nah x Kellam!Brady

Nah @ Valkyrie

Tomefaire/Vengeance/Wrath/Anathema

Brady @ Sage

Galeforce/Aggressor/Tomefaire/Luna

Donnel!Kjelle x Stahl!Inigo

Kjelle @ Hero

Galeforce/Swordfaire/Luna/Astra

Inigo @ Sniper

Galeforce/Aggressor/Bowfaire/Luna

Gaius!Noire x Virion!Yarne

Noire @ Sniper

Galeforce/Bowfaire/Vengeance/All Stats +2

Yarne @ Assassin

Aggressor/Bowfaire/All Stats +2/Skill +2

Lon'qu!Severa x Vaike!Gerome

Severa @ Wyvern Lord

Galeforce/Lancefaire/Vengeance/All Stats +2

Gerome @ Berserker

Aggressor/Axefaire/All Stats +2/Strength +2

Staffbots

DLC!Micaiah @ Valkyrie

Tomefaire/Acrobat/Movement +1/Shadowgift

DLC!Katarina @ Valkyrie

Tomefaire/Acrobat/Movement +1/Shadowgift

Rallybots

Julia @ Falcon Knight

Rally Heart/Rally Magic/Rally Luck/Rally Movement/Rally Defense

Palla @ Falcon Knight

Rally Spectrum/Rally Strength/Rally Speed/Rally Skill/Rally Resistance

[Czar_Yoshi]

So it works, but only on Kjelle, neither has room for a faire, and Inigo doesn't have room for a proc.

You could put Bowfaire over Galeforce. If Inigo is lacking both a proc, 100% DS and an Agg support, he might have a bit of trouble getting kills (especially since neither of the two have abnormally high Str caps and are both physical), so you won't always want to bring him up front. But having an Agg/Faire partner along with DS+ Gives Noire a pretty decent KO rate even without a proc.

Also, no Olivia?

Hey, is Iote's shield a recommended/good/necessary skill for fliers in apotheosis?

No, it's pretty bad. In terms of wind magic, you'll shave off 1 Rexcalibur++, 1 Forseti and four unforged Celica's Gales, but never enough to make the difference between being ORKOed and surviving (even if you're a Wyvern- Rexcalibur++ would have 118 Atk, so you'd just need 34 Res to take the hit), and in terms of Bows it's pretty much the same but they're easier to avoid.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[isetrh]

I don't think I'll try to get 100% DS there. It seems like a waste of a Galeboy. Thanks though.

Should I have Olivia?

[Czar_Yoshi]

Olivia essentially serves as either another staffbot or another combat pair simultaneously, and has the added benefit of giving a pair that failed to get a kill on their opening move another chance to activate their Galeforces (so a potential of four extra kills per turn for running her- she can steal the botched kill since the target will be at low HP for one, than dance a fresh double Galeforce pair to get back their potential three turns). She's usually worth running, especially if she married Chrom and/or has Boots.

[isetrh]

Can she do well withput a pair-up? I could drop Katarina for her. Alternatively... I guess I could drop a pair...

[Czar_Yoshi]

She's actually better off as a solo unit in case she needs to hitch a ride on a Staffbot. If she does need a support (for finishing off a weakened foe), she can stand between the failed pair and the target, grab their support, KO the target, activate Galeforce, transfer the support back, and then Dance.

So definitely keep her without a designated support.

[isetrh]

Alright, thanks. Is it okay to have just one staffbot?

Edit: Two more questions. Is there a standard forge to use or an amount of Hit to get before increasing Mt?

Longbow seems better than Double Bow since it can be forged. Is there any reason to go for Double Bow when it's harder to get and weaker?

Edited August 18, 2014 by isetrh

[Czar_Yoshi]

Double Bow gives Str+5 as a passive bonus. A Forged Longbow will be better on units with Flying weaknesses, but the Double Bow still edges out Longbows in effective mt.

Typical forges are 5/15, though if your unit is at less than 220 Hit it's probably a good idea to forge 3/25 instead.

You can try one staffbot, but you'll have no room for error because that Staffbot will be busy with Fortify most of the time and can only rescue two units at most (with Olivia's help) if things turn ugly and you need to pull out. You should have enough PPO with 7 pairs to not get into any messes, but you'll need to be more careful than usual. For reference, my current for fun team has only 8 combat units, leaving 12 spaces for Staffbots/Rallybots/Olivia- I may be a little lacking in PPO (actually, I have 2/3 as much functional PPO as a full 7/2 team despite having only four pairs), but my maneuverability makes me practically invincible.

[isetrh]

Thanks! That actually sounds good, there's some challenge that way. Or maybe I'm just making excuses. Eh, it would feel weird to me to leave someone out.

[Ownagepuffs]

Funny, since I run Olivia x Freddy she has a Great Knight husband. People tend to forget you can just pair Olivia up with a filler +1 mov Pair up class like Trickser, Great Knight, and Bow Knight. Olivia x Great Knight Freddy = free Mov +1 on Olivia. It's like half a pair of boots, lol.

[Airship Canon]

Double Bow: 13 MT +2 WRB + 5STR = 20 E. MT.

F.Longbow: 9 MT + 5Forge + 2 WRB = 16 E. MT.

Against a Flier: Double Bow: 13*3 +2 +5 = 46 E. MT.

F. Longbow: 14*3 + 2 = 44 E. MT.

...Double Bow actually is stronger than a Forged Longbow in terms of power in all cases.

Forged Longbow is more accurate: 85 Hit (70 +15) vs 70.

A way "around" the limitations of 1 staff bot is playing similar to how I run things-- but that means stacking some Sages.

Your dedicated Staffbot(s) is a (are) healer(s). They primarily are there to heal, not rescue- although they do.

...Your combat units have dual-roles in that case, carrying both weapons for battle and a whole lot of Rescue Staves. (Or rather, they carry a Rescue staff and sometimes need to make trips to Chrom).

...I wouldn't go without at least 2 staff bots because 2 Fortify = Full heal. In order for a 1-turn single staffbot to full heal [the whole field guaranteed like that does], it requires either a Dance or to use the Goddess Staff [which is Legendary and single use].

Edited August 18, 2014 by Airship Canon

[isetrh]

I will have my Sages and Valkyrie carry Rescue staves. Thanks for that AC!

Would it work to have my combat units carry Elixirs to heal between waves?

How much does Fortify heal?

How common is it to get a Double Bow from IR?

Would LB/GF/SF/Astra/Special Dance be a good build for Olivia?

If she needs the Boots, I could make Kjelle into a Paladin instead of Hero.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Equipping your units with Elixirs can help, but on the bigger/timed waves you'll want Staff users too.

Enough that it'll pretty much always fully heal you with two charges. The exact amount depends on your unit's Mag.

I don't think anyone's ever done an extensive study on how IR's chests work, but if they're completely random then it's 1/31 per chest (with 3 chests per map).

Maybe swap Astra for something else. She should never fight something if there isn't a 100% chance for her to win, so a proc doesn't help her much. I usually use Bond or All+2 instead.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[isetrh]

Thanks. I will swap Astra for All +2.

Do most people drop a pair? Seems like a lot of people would have the same deployment issues I do otherwise.

[Czar_Yoshi]

I can't speak for others, but I don't think of it as dropping any number of pairs- rather than starting with a full team and eliminating the ones I don't want, I start with an empty team and take only the ones I need. Anyway I've made plenty of both large and small teams, though I prefer the small ones better (partially because they're a lot quicker to grind up).

[isetrh]

I see. It's hard for me to know the pairs I need, since I'm still preparing for my first time through. I'm mostly interested in optimization for the sake of optimization, so I think I'll just train everyone and then see who I need. No one really suffers that much from not having the father they want besides Nah, who as far as I understand is usually the first girl to be benched. Brady would have better mods if he got Henry instead of Kellam, but that's about it. Thanks for all the help! Now to get through the first five chapters of Lunatic with a -Def Avatar...

Edit: I looked again at the possibilities for 7 pairs instead of 8, but didn't really like them. My team might be stronger this way, but it becomes a lot less fun. Benching Nah results in one extra physical girl and one extra magical boy, and Noire is part of a 100% DS pair, so I would bench Kjelle. Gerome is easy. Now Kjelle and Inigo need new partners, and I don't want to disrupt the Noire x Yarne 100% DS, so they go together. Severa is now out of place in her Wyvern Lord class since she isn't a dedicated lead, so I've lost that novelty. On the magical side of things, FIVE of my leads are now Dark Fliers. So much for team variety.

Edited August 19, 2014 by isetrh

[Alastor15243]

Hey Czar_Yoshi, just wondering, Besides the avatar, who do you consider the best parent for every individual child? Like, assuming that polygamy was possible in the game, and using a father for one child is never a "waste of a father", who would you consider to be the best parent for each child?

[Waifu Severa]

I can't speak for others, but I don't think of it as dropping any number of pairs- rather than starting with a full team and eliminating the ones I don't want, I start with an empty team and take only the ones I need. Anyway I've made plenty of both large and small teams, though I prefer the small ones better (partially because they're a lot quicker to grind up).

I sort of like small pairs too because usually 1-2 pairs never get to reach enemies. So with that in mind, should i do Brady x Nah and Kjelle x Yarne and just bench Kjelle x Yarne and maybe another pair? Or should i just do Brady x Kjelle for the Double Gale and bench Nah x Yarne. I wanted to do Bradyx Nah because i like Axefaire Hero Nah.

[Bloo]

So is Apotheosis (and secret) possible without optimisation? i.e. whatever pairings you feel like using etc.

Also is there some sort of online calculator for Dual Strike chance because having to open a billion different tabs to work it out hurts my brain.

[Alastor15243]

So is Apotheosis (and secret) possible without optimisation? i.e. whatever pairings you feel like using etc.

Also is there some sort of online calculator for Dual Strike chance because having to open a billion different tabs to work it out hurts my brain.

It's fairly simple. An S rank adds 60% to the chance, dual strike + adds 10, and every four points of skill that the lead and rear units have combined adds 1.

Limit Breaker and Rallies add another 10% (+10 skill from limit breaker for front and back, and +10 skill from rallies for front and back totals to 40 skill)

So without DS+ your lead and back unit have to have, without rallies or limit breaker a combined skill, with bonuses, of 120 in order to 100% Dual strike.

[Ownagepuffs]

Hey Czar_Yoshi, just wondering, Besides the avatar, who do you consider the best parent for every individual child? Like, assuming that polygamy was possible in the game, and using a father for one child is never a "waste of a father", who would you consider to be the best parent for each child?

Chrom for every Galeforce girl. Chrom grants Sniper, Aether, and Luna all at once.

Other than Chrom, probably Stahl and Ricken. Stahl grants amazing classes and Aether/Luna and Ricken grants Luna Sage.

[Airship Canon]

So is Apotheosis (and secret) possible without optimisation? i.e. whatever pairings you feel like using etc.

If you run Limit Breaker and Rallies as long as you're not... trying to beat it with Villagers or something, you can do whatever.

Apoth is severely, severely, undertuned.

[Bloo]

If you run Limit Breaker and Rallies as long as you're not... trying to beat it with Villagers or something, you can do whatever.

Apoth is severely, severely, undertuned.

Some people are insane.

[Airship Canon]

Some people are insane.

Eh.

There are limits to things.

(P.S. I'm the one doing all the math in that topic. No, I -REALLY- don't think you can do Villager SR Apoth. Too many ways to get 1-shot.)

[Czar_Yoshi]

Hey Czar_Yoshi, just wondering, Besides the avatar, who do you consider the best parent for every individual child? Like, assuming that polygamy was possible in the game, and using a father for one child is never a "waste of a father", who would you consider to be the best parent for each child?

Owain: Henry

Kjelle: Gaius

Laurent: Gregor

Cynthia: Chrom

Brady: Henry

Yarne: Virion

Severa: Virion

Nah: Henry

Noire: Gaius

Inigo: Libra

Gerome: Stahl

Morgan: Maribelle!Lucina

Laurent and Brady are pretty close with Lon'qu, and Inigo is pretty close with Chrom and Ricken. Morgan is also pretty close with Sumia!Lucina, Chrom!Cynthia and Aversa.

So is Apotheosis (and secret) possible without optimisation? i.e. whatever pairings you feel like using etc.

Also is there some sort of online calculator for Dual Strike chance because having to open a billion different tabs to work it out hurts my brain.

It feels like it was designed for it, to be honest. Go look for videos of it online (from LPers, not FE vets) and they'll sling just about whatever at it, albeit fully ground, and not have too much trouble. Here's a good example:

The player doesn't know how Rally stacking works, doesn't seem to have Galeforce for Brady (and has him as a Wyvern Lord), is using several parent pairs, has several pairs fighting at A, uses Sol, fields a ton of Sorcs, makes a big blunder with Mire and still only has one point where the RNG could have killed them (despite all that, it's still a good watch).

DS: I just use Notepad and the Windows Calculator app. You should need three tabs at most though (http://serenesforest.net/fe13/class_max.html, http://serenesforest.net/fe13/double.html, http://serenesforest.net/fe13/char_max.html), but since there are so few relevant classes if you're aiming for 100% DS it should be easy to memorize what you need from the first two (Sniper/Assassin/Hero/Falco/Sage are the only ones I go for 100% DS with).

Eh.

There are limits to things.

(P.S. I'm the one doing all the math in that topic. No, I -REALLY- don't think you can do Villager SR Apoth. Too many ways to get 1-shot.)

I KOed Anna with a Villager Donnel once, and that's as far as I'm willing to go on that challenge.