MarkyJoe1990 Posted August 6, 2015 Author Share Posted August 6, 2015 Alright... So... the final part of "Trapped In Painful Places" is rendering as we speak. I decided to start by showing the few good parts of the footage, then I show the winning run with post-production commentary. I did the best I could, everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomSwordmaster Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 No matter what happens, I'm sure we'll enjoy the end product irregardless! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverHairedFreak25 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I just wanna see what kind of shit Alusq can pull out of his ass to top what we see right now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrNight48 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 i don't think you realize just how close we are to zombie hoard mobbing you for this video marc. (wait did I just come up with an idea for ragefest V?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyJoe1990 Posted August 6, 2015 Author Share Posted August 6, 2015 Guys, I don't think you understand what I mean when I say the footage is bad. I'm not trying to imply that this submission trolled me so hard that I was rendered a mumbling mess. I'm saying that this submission might actually get disqualified because of its design oversights. I'll explain more in the video, but for now, please be patient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomSwordmaster Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 i don't think you realize just how close we are to zombie hoard mobbing you for this video marc. (wait did I just come up with an idea for ragefest V?) That could actually be a good idea lol. Marc tries to fight off viewers that demand more ragefest videos and have them come out faster and whatnot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Guys, I don't think you understand what I mean when I say the footage is bad. I'm not trying to imply that this submission trolled me so hard that I was rendered a mumbling mess. I'm saying that this submission might actually get disqualified because of its design oversights. I'll explain more in the video, but for now, please be patient. oh shit, i'll wait and hear about this then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuchinawa911 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Guys, I don't think you understand what I mean when I say the footage is bad. I'm not trying to imply that this submission trolled me so hard that I was rendered a mumbling mess. I'm saying that this submission might actually get disqualified because of its design oversights. I'll explain more in the video, but for now, please be patient. Well this'll be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyJoe1990 Posted August 6, 2015 Author Share Posted August 6, 2015 Sorry guys. More delays. Had to rewrite some of my script and such. Also had to fix, like, a million bloody errors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyJoe1990 Posted August 6, 2015 Author Share Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) FINALLY. I'M FREE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaTdrn92-yE Right. So... I think I'm gonna disqualify the submission, BUT still make it eligible for certain awards. The submission has too much effort in it to not be recognized just cause Part 2 ended up being such a train wreck. GhastStation and I have been talking about revising the rules for Ragefest. What we're currently set on, is that disqualified submissions should be ineligible for the Strategist and Ragefest (Overall) reward, but still be eligible for the Artist, Jester, and Sadist award. In addition, we think that some awards, such as the Strategist Award, should be determined by a select few judges rather than through popularity, since most people aren't going to notice gameplay intricacies. We're also considering splitting the "Overall/Ragefest Award" into a "Popularity Award" and "Overall Award". The former being decided by the masses, the latter being determined by the selected judges. What do y'all think? Edited August 6, 2015 by MarkyJoe1990 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klokinator Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 That was way shorter than expected. Lots of cool stuff, but yeah, I can see why this was a major pain for you. I can't hold my attention on ANY game for 1-2+ hours anymore. Let alone 10. Still a really good ragefest hack, it just needed a bit more time since he whipped it up in like two weeks??? And for a two week hack, it's pretty damn fantastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
47948201 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) I wasn't paying too much attention to the growth rates or luck manipulation you did, but I don't think it should be disqualified on the grounds of crypticness. It only takes two visits to the second part to see what's going to happen and therefore what kinds of end states you might consider for part 1. Trial and error, probably, but not cryptic, not even remotely close to Camtech levels of needing to step on a very specific space to have any chance of winning. I'd call it comparable to the ending parts of most of Ephraim's hacks. But again, it's possible that the luck manipulation you had to do was much beyond the generally underwhelming ease of Ephraim finales. EDIT: More generally, I think that disqualified submissions shouldn't globally be removed from the strategist running, but rather what they're ineligible for should depend on why they were disqualified. So if a submission is disqualified for being luck-based, it can't get the strategist award, but if it gets disqualified because it uses a premade FE7 map and just custom events then it can't win the artist award, etc. Or something. Edited August 6, 2015 by 47948201 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghast Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) That was way shorter than expected. Lots of cool stuff, but yeah, I can see why this was a major pain for you. I can't hold my attention on ANY game for 1-2+ hours anymore. Let alone 10. Still a really good ragefest hack, it just needed a bit more time since he whipped it up in like two weeks??? And for a two week hack, it's pretty damn fantastic. My sentiments exactly. If Sqawl had more time to beta test then this submission would be limitless. 2 weeks to do all this work is hella impressive. 2 weeks and dealing with other stuff (like helping insert, remix and refine music and mugs for me, lol) and balancing this too. Sqawl is the man. I don't think anyone could realistically do what Sqawl did. Loads of potential. edit- regarding the new rules. Keep in mind that its just stepping stones. But this way no matter what, everyone has a chance. We still could use feedback on the rules though obviously Edited August 6, 2015 by Ghatsu! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klokinator Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) EDIT: More generally, I think that disqualified submissions shouldn't globally be removed from the strategist running, but rather what they're ineligible for should depend on why they were disqualified. So if a submission is disqualified for being luck-based, it can't get the strategist award, but if it gets disqualified because it uses a premade FE7 map and just custom events then it can't win the artist award, etc. Or something. Right, this makes the most sense to me. If you break a rule and that rule directly correlates to a specific award, that award alone is what you should be disqualified for. In the case of this submission, the listed awards he would be excluded from are fine. I feel like with all the submissions this contest and all the work that people are putting in, it's not fair to give all or even more than one award to any single submission, and maybe we could use a couple new ones. I'm not a fan of the "EVERYBODY IS A WINNER! PARTICIPATION AWARDS FOR EVERYONE!" mentality, but here there has clearly been a lot of work put into just the first two seen submissions, and hell even the other three that I've seen plenty of as well. So, what are we looking at here? -Ragefest award: Official winner of the contest. Combination of people's choice and judges choice. If those are in contention but a submission has received multiple awards and is viewer/judge choice, that one might be the winner. If neither applies, Marc chooses. -Runner-up: Second place award. Similar criteria to above. -Viewers choice: The one that the audience loved watching most. Maybe it was hilarious all the way through and thoroughly entertaining. Maybe marc's rage tickled our funny bone harder in a specific one. Either way, the people decide! -Judge's choice, same as above, but determined by an odd-numbered set of judges, counting Marc. -Character award: Best characters, most interesting characters, whatever. Firmly designed and interesting personalities to watch converse matter most here. Example - Matthew's Nightmare with all the cute, interesting characters. -Jester award: The absolute funniest submission of them all. Whichever one has the viewers and/or Marc doubling over in laughter. Example: Marc's Special Day, tons of hilarious moments. -Innovation award: Some people come up with amazingly creative entries, whether having seriously cool new mechanics, or whole new ways of playing the game. Let the viewers decide this one. Example, Emblem Warriors has a really innovative new system for capturing points. -Sadist award: The submission that makes Marc cry/tear out his hair the most. Example: Ephraim's RF2 submission. -Story award: If applicable, any entry with a well thought-out story is eligible here. This is a combination of points, where Marc and the viewers cast votes, and Marc's vote holds 30% weight here to the viewer's 70%. Example: Matthew's Nightmare. -Strategist award: Whichever submission(s) had the best gameplay with the most careful, non-luck-based strategy, they are all eligible for this award. Marc and the Judges determine the winner here. Example - F.EXE's early and end points, though not so much the middle. -Mapping award: Best map used in the contest, even if the gameplay was substandard. If the submission overall sucked, ineligible for this award. Example - Generic War (I'd pick someone else's but aside from Ash and Ciraxis's submission which people haven't seen yet, nothing leaps to mind) -Animation/artwork award: If any badass new animations are included, Marc and the viewers/judges can vote to determine which hack wins this one. Some people clearly put a LOT of work into animations, so let's give them some serious credit here. Each animation is picked on a singular basis, but if multiple animations are included in a poll and are present in a single entry, their votes combine when voting is finished. Marc has the same voting weight here as the audience. Example: The Eliwood animation in Sqawl's entry, or the Marc animation from F.EXE. -SHOCK award: Goes to entry that has the grotesque/hilarious visuals? Example - KAWAIIDESU from F.EXE/Generic War, Manphia, or the killer clown from Corruption of Roy. -Sound design award: Some people put tons of work into their sound design. Let's give the best ones an award as well. Example: F.EXE's custom touhou music or something, idk music's not prevelant yet but it could be once FEXNA is released. Total awards: 14 Any other suggestions? Edited August 6, 2015 by Klokinator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
47948201 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) I actually do like the idea of more award quantity. Having a handful was fine when there were about as many submissions as awards was fine, but now that we're well into the double digits of submissions, stuff like ragefest runner-up would be a welcome addition. The return of writing-based awards that aren't purely for humor might not hurt. There might also be some other game design award besides strategist and sadist, maybe for one like Ephraim's that's actually somewhat fun? EDIT: To clarify, I do think that, for example, sadist award is a better representation of what the contest should be like, but something can still be slightly more fun than the rest despite attempts to be a bit over the top in difficulty. Edited August 6, 2015 by 47948201 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyJoe1990 Posted August 6, 2015 Author Share Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) If I wasn't so bloody tired from the six days I spent playing, recording, and editing Sqawl's submission, and it wasn't so late, I would add more on to this, but I think y'all know what you're talking about. Though, seeing Klok and everyone else's sea of suggestions really makes me realize how much updating Ragefest still needs to do before it becomes a... uh... what's the contest equivalent of a "First World Country?" ... Bah, I'm so tired... and my head hurts... Edited August 6, 2015 by MarkyJoe1990 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klokinator Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) The thing is, the number of awards were fine for FE1/2/3. But RF4 is like the size of RF1/2/3 combined. Nobody saw it coming, not even me. I'm glad I didn't enter for this one, because we'd be waiting even longer for everything to be done. But since we know it's gonna be big, can't hurt to preemptively add more awards. And if the next contest is teeny, no biggie, you just give multiple awards to people like before. More awards is a win win. Edited August 6, 2015 by Klokinator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
47948201 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Since Klok went and expanded on some of his award ideas, one in particular comes to attention. Having the artist award be entirely for maps is something I don't entirely agree with, perhaps there should be a separate mapper award. It could go towards one that's clean despite being grand, like Generic War's, or one that does something else cool, like being an accurate recreation of a real-life castle or some other place, or just someone who makes creative use of the tiles at hand. I don't think this should be tied to gameplay not sucking, since they're quite separate issues. And it discounts graphical efforts in, say, portraits or title screens. (Which, portraits might not be a bad place to reward people in. I know Marc isn't the biggest fan of when games focus too much on them, but it's not like good portraits can't exist in an otherwise good game, too. We were just treated to excellent cake and bandit portraits that, if you're going to be recognizing maps' aesthetics specifically, should also be worthy of note) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klokinator Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I actually did a separate award for maps and animations. I don't think mugs are all that big a deal, and most people have a few or more custom mugs anyway, so those are kind of a given. Plus it's really biased away from rewarding newcomers, since they won't have the artist connections someone like me has. Animations though are a big deal, and maps are pretty cool too. But if anything, the artist award should be renamed the primefusion award Mapper Award since it's not actually art and 'art' implies mugs or something else. I'm not opposed to a portrait award though, but what's the criteria? Quality of mugs? Number? Both? Should it be based on making the ugliest most monstrous mugs possible? (Such as that one mug from hell in Generic War or Manphia) Come up with a good explanation for a portrait award and I'd be up for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
47948201 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Of course, like the bit I had on maps that aren't just professional but rather creative or do something I couldn't imagine, the portrait award, if it existed, ought to include stuff like the Sophia edits we've seen (short hair and long face). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrNight48 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 I agree with klok on more awards, he pretty much covered what I wanted to say on that. About the map award, I think it should be more based on what the creator does with the map that enhances overall gameplay. For example: I have been thinking about how one can include the use of controlling bridges more strategic in Fire emblem and I came up with the idea about bridges you can cut so the enemy can't cross or falls and gets stuck in a pit. to do this, attach some map event to a snag place around the bridge to act like poles that hold the bridge up. Ragefest example: Visiting the house to get rid of the water in Trapped in painful places or The maze changes in Maze of the Troll King. Sure it broke some things but it was still pretty cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyJoe1990 Posted August 6, 2015 Author Share Posted August 6, 2015 (edited) Okay, so I spent, like, an hour trying to write something up, only to realize that I have no new ideas on the matter. I'll probably just stick to the suggestions given, with some modifications. Like... Well, actually, I wanna talk about something. The Sadist Award. We've had four Ragefests, and I've come to the realization that it's just as effective to just make an obnoxiously large map and giving our units 1-move as it is to put actual effort into making me mad, and I think the award should be revised in some way. I also realized that... Marc's Special Day kinda shoulda been disqualified from Ragefest 3 because it's even more cryptic to beat than Maze Of The Troll King. And uh... yeah, it's also the shining example of how the Sadist Award encourages people to just make me deal with blatantly effortless tedium. I don't want Ragefest to become a bloody chore. I want to look forward to it, and after Alusq's submission, I'm all but willing to just cheat my way through any submission that goes too far like the good old days. I don't get paid enough by my partnership to make menial stuff like this worthwhile, and I want to have time to work on other shit in my day, like Chronicles Of Lussaria, or my FE3 playthrough, instead of wasting six days playing, recording, and editing a submission. It's just not worth it for me to deal with this kind of thing. I dunno. Like. My enthusiasm got wrecked something fierce once I realized that people can just do that and still be praised for their work. Edited August 6, 2015 by MarkyJoe1990 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanami Touko Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 i am confused marcyou ask people to make things that will make you mad and then when you get an overwhelming submission of things that will, in fact, make you mad, you say that they're not making you mad the way you want to be made madidk if anyone can really make a good submission if you change your mind like that and don't even get me started on the "not paid enough" line like wao conceited Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverHairedFreak25 Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 How about something like this to reduce tedium: The submission must take at most X0 amount of turns to complete. (I put a variable there to make it more flexible, as not every submission is going to have the same size or quantity of maps.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintales Posted August 6, 2015 Share Posted August 6, 2015 Sadist Award should be to the more "ragey" submission. Maybe not the funniest one, maybe not the greatest one, but the one that made you feel pain. And there's a difference between "ragey" and "tedious". Ragey = Making you mad because lots and lots of traps. I think Matthew's nightmare summarizes what "ragey" is. Once you got trapped, you can only blame yourself and laugh for the funny thing that's going to happen. For example, let's say you have a choice A and B. Choice B seems more obvious, and you take it. And Choice B leaves you to die like a wimp. THIS is ragey. Now, for tedious, let's say you have choice A, choice B, choice C, choice D and choice E in one part but only ONE leads you to victory. This is tedious. Something I would call tedious would be Marc's Special Day "rainy" thingy. Moving one case each turn is awful and makes you more bored than anything. So yeah, "ragey" and not "tedious". That's why the sadist award should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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