Does it bother anybody else that Male!Kamui is getting much more coverage?

[Sunwoo]

Because the female is better than the male.

Okay, I know this is a joke especially since it's in strikethrough, but can we not with stuff like this. It's incredibly annoying.

[falcoknights]

personally, i don't see the problem- for demos, it makes sense. they clearly have two demo files running (or w/e, dunno if demo)- one f!kamui and one m!kamui, and we know they're equals at the end of the day- they serve the same purpose. it's likely that they just took more screenshots in one file than the other, b/c switching out for something you're about to get simply to have a female battle model for kamui... is kinda stupid.

and sure, m!kamui is getting more demo images and stuff, but f!kamui is getting way more attention outside of that. it balances out, IMO.

like, this is mountain out of molehill tbh. it's a possible appearance. for a character. possible. out of what, 2 x 5 x 20 x blah blah blah how many options?(over 1,000 that's for sure)

seriously, it's not a big deal.

Edited May 20, 2015 by falcoknights

[Thor Odinson]

The thing about the amiibos is this: consider that both Villager and WFT are playable in both genders, like Robin, and only a male villager and female WFT was made. Even if Robin got a bit more attention with the two genders thing, male Robin was still presented as the default Robin.

I see very little, if ANY, complaints about villager only having the male amiibo and WFT having only the female amiibo, and I see people crying about female Robin not getting an amiibo. As far as I see it, this is more of a matter of consistency and not so much "bias", and it's actually this kind of stuff that bothers me.

That's the point though, the male is presented as the default in case of Robin. To be fair I'm not horribly into Smash and so I don't follow the state of anyone else outside of Fire Emblem, but I mean, maybe consider people only wanting FRobin because, idk, they only played Fire Emblem? Especially considering this is a FE board, people who don't even have smash might want FRobin because they're FE fans and don't really follow Smash otherwise. It's not exactly the best sample of Smash players out there.

I wonder what's the state of need for Villager and WFT in Animal Crossing forums and Wii Fit (is there even a forum for that) forums, though

Edited May 20, 2015 by Thor Odinson

[Carter]

Well, there is the thing where only RobinM got the Amiibo while RobinF didn't. I can't say this is the case with Kamoois since none of them have figures yet, but at least with FE13, despite RobinF's popularity, RobinM got the merchandise. So I do not blame people having concern about this issue.

With the amiibo, that I can understand. I mean, it's physical merchandise you can buy. And if you like Female Robin more, than I can totally understand why people would be upset that only the Male Robin got an amiibo.

I think only Male Robin got the amiibo because he was in the trailer; he was the star. Yes, in Smash they pushed Male Robin as the more "definitive Robin", but in Awakening, they were completely equal.

But I'm talking purely about the coverage. What I'm getting from this thread is that Male Kamui receiving more coverage is bothersome. I am questioning why that is bothersome, because we all know that they are equal.

If they are clearly equal, then they should be given equal coverage. Basically by not doing this Nintendo/IS is reinforcing age old stereotypes that males are more important than females, ergo sexism.

That would be the general theory behind this thread.

I am still confused though. I see your point on stereotypes and male dominance, but I don't see that as what Nintendo / IS is doing.

People are upset because Male Kamui is in more pictures and videos than Female Kamui? That has no impact on that game itself! If I got best smile and best dressed in the yearbook, but my friend only got best smile, that does not mean I am more important than him! it just means my fashion is better

Really though, I think it's safe to assume that Nintendo isn't actually reinforcing old stereotypes, but come on. I don't think we should be riled up because Male Kamui got in more pictures, or more trailers than Female Kamui! It doesn't signify their importance or equality.

[goodperson707]

the thing that gets me is that some people seem to be of the opinion that all coverage is equal when it really isn't. The cover is far more important than map sprites in a fan magazine that isnt even related to kaimui. The trailer is up there in importance though. Could someone run by the numbers for kaimui in the trailer? Thx in advance.

I also dislike that apparently if you disagree in anyway you are apthatic to gender imblaance issues. Which is untrue and is kinda insulting.

[IceBuster573]

Clearly, we just need to vote Kamui into the Smash Ballot and see who Nintendo picks as the default. That would ultimately decide who gets more coverage.

This is not a character campaign. What.

[ClevelandSteve]

This wouldn't be too bothersome if it was just one game (or pair of games or whatever) in itself, but this is kinda part of a much larger trend that IS could have broken but chose not to. I usually play as Female Robin in Awakening because telling the best story is more important to me than making a digital version and pairing him up with my chosen waifu, and I personally think pairing Robin and Chrom tells the best story overall and gives the most character depth to Chrom, Robin, and Lucina. Not sure which Kamui I'll ultimately go with in If, though.

But, again, the real problem isn't Fe:If doing this, it's pretty much all forms of media outside of chick flicks and romance novels (which both have their own problems about the portrayal of women, but this isn't the place to discuss that) doing stuff like this.

(I also usually pick the female trainer in Pokemon, mostly because it seems every male option is either incredibly generic looking or dresses like a douchebag.)

[Kamui-of-Nohr]

personally, i don't see the problem- for demos, it makes sense. they clearly have two demo files running (or w/e, dunno if demo)- one f!kamui and one m!kamui, and we know they're equals at the end of the day- they serve the same purpose. it's likely that they just took more screenshots in one file than the other, b/c switching out for something you're about to get simply to have a female battle model for kamui... is kinda stupid.

and sure, m!kamui is getting more demo images and stuff, but f!kamui is getting way more attention outside of that. it balances out, IMO.

like, this is mountain out of molehill tbh. it's a possible appearance. for a character. possible. out of what, 2 x 5 x 20 x blah blah blah how many options?(over 1,000 that's for sure)

seriously, it's not a big deal.

Who said it was? Oh that's right. You. Being annoyed isn't a big deal. Honestly, it seems you guys are making a bigger deal out of this than the ones who are acutally annoyed ironically.

With the amiibo, that I can understand. I mean, it's physical merchandise you can buy. And if you like Female Robin more, than I can totally understand why people would be upset that only the Male Robin got an amiibo.

I think only Male Robin got the amiibo because he was in the trailer; he was the star. Yes, in Smash they pushed Male Robin as the more "definitive Robin", but in Awakening, they were completely equal.

But I'm talking purely about the coverage. What I'm getting from this thread is that Male Kamui receiving more coverage is bothersome. I am questioning why that is bothersome, because we all know that they are equal.

I am still confused though. I see your point on stereotypes and male dominance, but I don't see that as what Nintendo / IS is doing.

People are upset because Male Kamui is in more pictures and videos than Female Kamui? That has no impact on that game itself! If I got best smile and best dressed in the yearbook, but my friend only got best smile, that does not mean I am more important than him! it just means my fashion is better

Really though, I think it's safe to assume that Nintendo isn't actually reinforcing old stereotypes, but come on. I don't think we should be riled up because Male Kamui got in more pictures, or more trailers than Female Kamui! It doesn't signify their importance or equality.

They are not "equal" nor will they ever be. For God sakes, in that scene where that Hoshidan lady is talking, you could clearly see Male!Kamui's model. Edited May 20, 2015 by Kamui-of-Nohr

[Bovinian]

Clearly, we just need to vote Kamui into the Smash Ballot and see who Nintendo picks as the default. That would ultimately decide who gets more coverage.

This is not a character campaign. What.

Aqua would be a better pick imo. Lance user! Guaranteed female representation!

[IceBuster573]

Aqua would be a better pick imo. Lance user! Guaranteed female representation!

Who needs a lance when you can do half-dragon transformations? You say that second sentence as if female Kamui wouldn't be a costume option at all.

[Philranger]

Who said it was? Oh that's right. You. Being annoyed isn't a big deal. Honestly, it seems you guys are making a bigger deal out of this than the ones who are acutally annoyed ironically.

They are not "equal" nor will they ever be. For God sakes, in that scene where that Hoshidan lady is talking, you could clearly see Male!Kamui's model.

That assumes there aren't two versions of the cutscenes, one with the female model and one with the male.

[Carter]

They are not "equal" nor will they ever be. For God sakes, in that scene where that Hoshidan lady is talking, you could clearly see Male!Kamui's model.

I hate to play the victim card on myself, but jeez, where did that come from? You may not have meant it, but the way you phrased that makes me feel like I'm being attacked. It sounds like indirectly I'm being called an idiot: "Gods sakes"

I do not wish for an actual argument, just a good explanation (that's not to say your explanation isn't sufficient, I just have a hard time understanding why) as to why some think they aren't equal. So then, Male Kamui is in the scene with the Hoshidan lady. What does that mean? Female Kamui is clearly pushed as the definitive Kamui for the Nohr side.

This is why I am confused! I do not see how Male Kamui receiving more coverage makes him "more than equal" compared to Female Kamui.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Carter

[IceBuster573]

I think cutscenes will actually change depending on gender. Would Elise really call her big sis, "onii-chan"? Or Sakura and "nii-sama"?

Edited May 20, 2015 by IceBuster573

[Kamui-of-Nohr]

I hate to play the victim card on myself, but jeez, where did that come from? You may not have meant it, but the way you phrased that makes me feel like I'm being attacked. It sounds like indirectly I'm being called an idiot: "Gods sakes"

I do not wish for an actual argument, just a good explanation (that's not to say your explanation isn't sufficient, I just have a hard time understanding why) as to why some think they aren't equal. So then, Male Kamui is in the scene with the Hoshidan lady. What does that mean? Female Kamui is clearly pushed as the definitive Kamui for the Nohr side.

This is why I am confused! I do not see how Male Kamui receiving more coverage makes him "more than equal" compared to Female Kamui.

I'm sorry. I wasn't calling you an idiot. I was just expressing some annoyance. I have to disagree on female Kamui being the definitive Kamui for the Nohr path. Even in the Nohr screenshots, we've just seen Male!Kamui and people referring them as male. I do want to argue as well but my opinion is that Male!Kamui and Female!Kamui are not equal. I don't wish to argue about this. Things are already getting tense in this topic.

And again, I apologize if I offended you or anyone else in this topic. I just wanted a good discussion, not a thread full of people yelling at each other. I'm sorry guys. I think we should calm down, myself included.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Kamui-of-Nohr

[BlueL]

I think it's just because they consider them more marketable.

It was the same thing with Robin. Heck, in the demo, you couldn't even select the female gender.

I also wonder if it doesn't have something to do with Aqua. Maybe they're subtle-y trying to market her as the likely love interest?

But to answer OP's question, I do think it'd be nice to see more of female Kamui but "bothers" is a strong word given the lack of gameplay footage in general.

[Rutger]

I haven't saw most of the leaks and only watched the trailers a couple times, but maybe Femui model wasn't fully complete?

[Book of Ereshkigal]

I haven't saw most of the leaks and only watched the trailers a couple times, but maybe Femui model wasn't fully complete?

Femui was shown fighting in the first Nintendo Direct presentation (note I don't say trailer, she was only shown in a small discussion segment after the trailer)

[Vineron]

Also, I doubt a game this late in development still hasn't completed the model for its main character.

[Philranger]

FWIW, I think your argument has merit in the sense that male Kamui has been presented as the default in the marketing thus far, and if they are equal they should be presented as such.

Honestly though, if you didn't want to argue your position your best bet would have been to not start the topic. I mean did you really think this thread would take any direction that wasn't straight into shitstorm?

If you want an echo chamber I'd suggest Tumblr.

[Bovinian]

Who needs a lance when you can do half-dragon transformations? You say that second sentence as if female Kamui wouldn't be a costume option at all.

My point was that Aqua would (obviously) be portrayed as a female in all instances and there would be no problems, whereas if Kamui was indeed primarily depicted as a male like Smash!Robin then evidently some people would get upset. I'm not sure if they would ever go with Femui as the char select screen default unless the female was the more iconic representation of the character, though there wouldn't be anything wrong with it.

Also (sorry for going way off topic) while it's cool that Kamui can halfshift into a dragon and all, I feel that Smash players should be enlightened on the fact that there do indeed exist Fire Emblem characters that don't use swords (too bad she still has blue hair though)

[Book of Ereshkigal]

Yeah, I had to admit, I double checked who posted the thread lol

[Kamui-of-Nohr]

FWIW, I think your argument has merit in the sense that male Kamui has been presented as the default in the marketing thus far, and if they are equal they should be presented as such.

Honestly though, if you didn't want to argue your position your best bet would have been to not start the topic. I mean did you really think this thread would take any direction that wasn't straight into shitstorm?

If you want an echo chamber I'd suggest Tumblr.

Well, I actually was arguing at first but as you said, things started turning to shit. So I would rather avoid people getting into trouble than arguing. And did you really recommend me tumblr? :p

Yeah, I had to admit, I double checked who posted the thread lol

And what does that imply about myself?

[dragonlordsd]

Ok, this thread has gone down hill fast.

Yes, Male Kamui is getting more coverage.

Yes, that is generally how things are in the entertainment industry.

Yes, it would be interesting if they emphasized the female Kamui over the male.

These are indisputable. What are we arguing about?!

[Rutger]

Femui was shown fighting in the first Nintendo Direct presentation (note I don't say trailer, she was only shown in a small discussion segment after the trailer)

I see.

Also, I doubt a game this late in development still hasn't completed the model for its main character.

Sometimes images and footage can be taken from early development stages, but I admit it's unlikely in this case.

Back the topic. I'm not be biggest fan of "Avatar" characters so I don't care much. But I really wouldn't mind a good Female protagonist in some future FE.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Rutger

[Florete]

So much to respond to.

...I really don't expect them to load another save when they're taking screenshots showing of inventory and item descriptions.

This is someone's job. They can probably switch out in a matter of seconds (us, the players, can get a similar inventory shot in Awakening in a matter of minutes. A developer should have no trouble). It is no excuse.

However, I don't think they're (as in Intelligent Systems / Nintendo) saying Female Kamui is any less important than her male counterpart. I don't think they're "ignoring" her either, as she's clearly known to be part of the game.

I don't really think I'm grasping at why this is an issue to some people though... I know Red Fox has stated that it gives the female is just an alternate, but I just don't feel that way. The way I see it, it literally just is the impression, and the game makers are in no way saying that the male is the lead / the female is the alternate. If I'm wrong though, please correct me!

These things are never intentional. No one is sitting around thinking Nintendo and IS have some grand scheme to make MKamui the canon/default/whatever Kamui. It's a case persistent subconscious sexism. It's not the worst offender in the industry by any means, but it's certainly not very progressive.

Just, like, compare it to the marketing for Pokemon OR/AS. There was plenty of pre-release footage, and almost all of it featured Brendan and May equally. For example, they had videos showcasing new mega evolutions, and for each one they switched off the character being used. That was a good way to do it. (Unfortunately, the demo didn't let you pick or switch off and used only the boy, but I guess no one's perfect)

Then look at Mass Effect, where you probably wouldn't even know Shepard can be female unless you're told about it elsewhere (<- how I found out) or watch someone play the game since male Shepard is everywhere. Games with a choice of gender never give more attention to the woman, and usually don't give equal treatment, either.

The thing about the amiibos is this: consider that both Villager and WFT are playable in both genders, like Robin, and only a male villager and female WFT was made. Even if Robin got a bit more attention with the two genders thing, male Robin was still presented as the default Robin.

I see very little, if ANY, complaints about villager only having the male amiibo and WFT having only the female amiibo, and I see people crying about female Robin not getting an amiibo. As far as I see it, this is more of a matter of consistency and not so much "bias", and it's actually this kind of stuff that bothers me.

I always advocated amiibos for female Villager and male WFT.

If they are clearly equal, then they should be given equal coverage. Basically by not doing this Nintendo/IS is reinforcing age old stereotypes that males are more important than females, ergo sexism.

That would be the general theory behind this thread.

Precisely.

the thing that gets me is that some people seem to be of the opinion that all coverage is equal when it really isn't. The cover is far more important than map sprites in a fan magazine that isnt even related to kaimui. The trailer is up there in importance though. Could someone run by the numbers for kaimui in the trailer? Thx in advance.

The trailer uses exclusively male Kamui. Aside from about two screenshots, female Kamui is only seen alongside male Kamui. Male Kamui is on his own much more often.

I also dislike that apparently if you disagree in anyway you are apthatic to gender imblaance issues. Which is untrue and is kinda insulting.

I don't think anyone said this, but there is a clear lack of understanding of gender imbalance issues from some posters in this thread. Lack of understanding =/= apathetic.

What I dislike is that anyone who agrees is apparently making a mountain out of a molehill and just shouldn't care at all that female Kamui is clearly getting the shaft.