The Lifespan Question (Third Route Spoilers)

[Cirex101]

[spoiler=The hypothetical lifespans of several characters]

So, we know that Corrin's father is the dragon Ananakos, and that Azura's father is an as yet unnamed dark dragon.

Would it be reasonable to assume that both these characters being half dragons, that they could live far longer than normal humans, barring of course, death in battle or Azura dissolving into water? Perhaps not as long as the Manaketes of Akaneia millennia long lifespans, but surely a few centuries wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility.

Would these long lifespans also be passed down to their children, Kanna/Shigure/etc, as well?

[ErrantDShepherd]

[spoiler=On Dragon Daddies] From what I understand... Anankos is the Treehouse name for the Dragon known as Hydra.

Hydra is apparently the father of both Azura/Aqua and Corrin/Kamui via some means(unexplained as far as I know) with both Azura's mother and Mikoto, Corrin's mother... unless I missed some new info on that, so much for no real incest? :\

[spoiler=lifespans]Likely... Even if this is a separate world with different rules than previously established FE games, the being half-dragon means extended lifespan seems fairly consistent in all of them... I am kind of wondering if the character of Nyx may perhaps be part Dragon due to some of her support conversations discussing her apparent unaging body.

[Cirex101]

[spoiler=On Dragon Daddies] From what I understand... Anankos is the Treehouse name for the Dragon known as Hydra.

Hydra is apparently the father of both Azura/Aqua and Corrin/Kamui via some means(unexplained as far as I know) with both Azura's mother and Mikoto, Corrin's mother... unless I missed some new info on that, so much for no real incest? :\

I believe that Corrin and Azura have two separate dragon fathers. Corrin's is Hydra/Ananakos, while Azura's is an unnamed Dark Dragon.

[ErrantDShepherd]

I believe that Corrin and Azura have two separate dragon fathers. Corrin's is Hydra/Ananakos, while Azura's is an unnamed Dark Dragon.

It's... Possible? The implication however from Azura's mom being present in the third path, which focuses on Hydra, and said to have born Azura from a dragon implies that Hydra is the dragon daddy in question as no other Dragons appear to be around anymore.

[Pepper]

will have to find out cause translations might be wrong.

[FireMblum]

It's... Possible? The implication however from Azura's mom being present in the third path, which focuses on Hydra, and said to have born Azura from a dragon implies that Hydra is the dragon daddy in question as no other Dragons appear to be around anymore.

Nohr has/had a Dark Dragon. Slime Garon was able to take its power and transform into it. If Aqua were the child of Hydra, she'd able to transform similarly to Kamui. From what I've gathered, the only connection Aqua has to Hydra is her mother being its priestess, I believe the songs she sing are Hydra's but were taught to her by her mother, and her water pendent that gives her singing power.

Edited July 3, 2015 by FireMblum

[ErrantDShepherd]

That's far too sensible. :p

Actually... Thinking again about lifespans, we know that Corrin/Kamui is part-dragon as is apparently Azura/Aqua... But they don't seem to be stuck in a childlike bodies unlike say Nowi or the maneketes... And unlike Nyx who may or may not be part-Dragon. Any theories as to why?

Nohr has/had a Dark Dragon. Slime Garon was able to take its power and transform into it. If Aqua were the child of Hydra, she'd able to transform similarly to Kamui. From what I've gathered, the only connection Aqua has to Hydra is her mother being its priestess, I believe the songs she sing are Hydra's but were taught to her by her mother, and her water pendent that gives her singing power.

I don't know why we keep using so many spoilers in a thread titled spoilers... But hey... Whatever. XD

Was it established that was a separate Dragon? I believe I read theories that it too was simply an extension of Hydra/Anankos' powers.

Would the theory be then that Azura/Aqua was conceived before said imprisonment took place? ...Or is the Dark Dragon serving Hydra all along with the slime stuff just being an encasement for its true form? ...yeah so many questions about Garon/Slime Garon...

Edited July 3, 2015 by TheErrantShepherd

[goodperson707]

That's far too sensible. :p

Actually... Thinking again about lifespans, we know that Corrin/Kamui is part-dragon as is apparently Azura/Aqua... But they don't seem to be stuck in a childlike bodies unlike say Nowi or the maneketes... And unlike Nyx who may or may not be part-Dragon. Any theories as to why?

A mostly different type of Dragon is my guess, that has similarities to the others but is not quite the same thing. Ie instead of putting their powers in stones they became spirits, but they had to do it because of a similar event to the one in archaea and the one in elibe. Same with the dragon vein, which from the backstory i read seems quite similar to the holy blood from 4 and 5, but still not quite the same thing. Also just because the awakening kids are there doesn't mean the game is not in a mostly separate universe. Which in my guess happens to share very similar elements with other worlds (dragons/similar magic,a fire emblem, ect) and can also at times allow travel between different worlds, (outrelams/dragons Gate/possibly Anna,etc)

Edited July 3, 2015 by goodperson707

[FireMblum]

That's far too sensible. :p

Actually... Thinking again about lifespans, we know that Corrin/Kamui is part-dragon as is apparently Azura/Aqua... But they don't seem to be stuck in a childlike bodies unlike say Nowi or the maneketes... And unlike Nyx who may or may not be part-Dragon. Any theories as to why?

I don't know why we keep using so many spoilers in a thread titled spoilers... But hey... Whatever. XD

Was it established that was a separate Dragon? I believe I read theories that it too was simply an extension of Hydra/Anankos' powers.

Would the theory be then that Azura/Aqua was conceived before said imprisonment took place? ...Or is the Dark Dragon serving Hydra all along with the slime stuff just being an encasement for its true form? ...yeah so many questions about Garon/Slime Garon...

Well there is a Light Dragon in Hoshido and the Dark Dragon in Nohr. As for it actually having a physical body, I'm not sure, but it's power and presence definitely seem to to be real. It's to my understanding that Nohr basically worshipped it, but somewhere down the line, Garon was replaced by the monster and secretly so was the Dark Dragon by Hydra. They still prayed to it, but as seen by what SlimeGaron was doing, during the events of the game, it was Hydra speaking through it and impersonating it I guess.

Edited July 3, 2015 by FireMblum

[ErrantDShepherd]

yeah but Garon specifically prays to/consults with the Dragon name dropping it as Anankos/Hydra in chapter 7 of Nohr.

I mean, if the Light Dragon and Dark Dragon actually are two different entities and actually are still living that's cool. Or Hydra could be impersonating both or something?

Another potential interpretation is that both those Dragons are just different interpretations of the same Dragon, Hydra/Anankos.

It would explain why Hydra/Anankos seems to bear a grudge against both kingdoms and why the Dragon Vein powers of both lines seem to be the same.

Edited July 3, 2015 by TheErrantShepherd

[FireMblum]

yeah but Garon specifically prays to/consults with the Dragon name dropping it as Anankos/Hydra in chapter 7 of Nohr.

I mean, if the Light Dragon and Dark Dragon actually are two different entities and actually are still living that's cool. Or Hydra could be impersonating both or something?

Another potential interpretation is that both those Dragons are just different interpretations of the same Dragon, Hydra/Anankos.

It would explain why Hydra/Anankos seems to bear a grudge against both kingdoms and why the Dragon Vein powers of both lines seem to be the same.

The real Garon was supposedly dead before the events of the game even happened. The one we see was Slime Garon all along, which is why it was referring to the Dark Dragon as Anankos. Slime Garon, the Water Familiar, is a servant of Anankos/Hydra.

Like others have said, how would the people of Nohr know just who Anankos actually was? The others probably just assumed that was the Dark Dragon's name.

The Dark Dragon does exist, which is how Slime Garon was taking its power at the end of the Hoshido route. The form it took is how the Dark Dragon looks.

There are/were indeed multiple dragons in the Fates world, as when the character sprites/description were datamined, Hydra was described to be one of the first dragons, implying there were more. The Dark Dragon, The Light Dragon, and Hydra the Water/Invisible Dragon are the only ones we know of in the game. (Or at least the only ones I'm aware of.)

As for the age thing, I think they might have changed how the whole dragon-human thing works in this game or Kamui is a special case. I don't believe Kamui is ever referred to as Manakete, and he seems to age normally.

[Airship Canon]

Triple secret incest is not only real, but canon. Top keks all around.

[sorry, carry on, but I had to say it.]

[wvype]

It may be just me, but wasn't there talk of an 'Invisible Dragon' floating around before? I was under the impression that that dragon was Aqua's father. Has that been translated as 'Dark Dragon' now?

And regarding Nyx, it's not that she's half-dragon or anything. In her supports, she reveals that she played around with curses a lot when she was young and one of them backfired, trapping her in a child's body.

[FireMblum]

It may be just me, but wasn't there talk of an 'Invisible Dragon' floating around before? I was under the impression that that dragon was Aqua's father. Has that been translated as 'Dark Dragon' now?

And regarding Nyx, it's not that she's half-dragon or anything. In her supports, she reveals that she played around with curses a lot when she was young and one of them backfired, trapping her in a child's body.

Hydra is the is Invisible Dragon. The Dark and Light Dragons are Nohr and Hoshido's deities of some sort .

[NeonZ]

About the Dark Dragon, Garon and Hydra

Nohr has/had a Dark Dragon. Slime Garon was able to take its power and transform into it. If Aqua were the child of Hydra, she'd able to transform similarly to Kamui. From what I've gathered, the only connection Aqua has to Hydra is her mother being its priestess, I believe the songs she sing are Hydra's but were taught to her by her mother, and her water pendent that gives her singing power.

I'm not sure about Aqua's situation, but dragon Garon actually asks for more of the Hydra's power when he's weakened by Aqua, and he turns into bubbles after being killed. So, I don't think that has anything to do with the dark dragon. Considering the backstory, it sounds like the only dragon that is still around interacting with the real world is the Hydra. The other dragons became spirits and left.

Also, I don't think Water familiar Garon and Dragon Garon are even the same though. Water Familiar seems to be a fake that replaced the real Garon, while dragon Garon seems to be just Garon corrupted by the Hydra's power - he even recovers his senses for a bit before dying.

Edited July 3, 2015 by NeonZ

[VincentASM]

I checked the 3rd route dialogue, specifically Chapter 19 and...

Azura's father was the king of the Invisible Kingdom, but he was killed by Anankos.

That said, I dunno if the Light Dragon and Dark Dragon are separate entities or simply manifestations of Anankos.

[FireMblum]

Let me try to explain what I've gathered about this situation.

The real Garon is dead. The Garon we see ingame, with the exception of probably the cutscene where he takes in Kamui as an infant, is the Water Familiar. The Water Familiar is Hydra's servant.

The real Garon was replaced presumably around the time that Shenmei, Aqua's mother and the most recent Queen of Nohr, left the kingdom.

This is implied by Elise claiming her father used to be much kinder, but went through a personality change when Shenmei left.

You'll find that here, in the Chapter 22 section.

https://kantopia.wordpress.com/2015/06/30/fire-emblem-fates-hoshido-story-summary/

However it also says Shenmei 'died', but we know this to be false given the details of the third path.

So what I get from this is that Queen Shenmei, a priestess of Hydra, possibly faked her death before she played a hand in her husband Garon's death and allowed one of Hydra's servants to become a stand in. That stand in is the Garon we see in the game.

There was a Nohr Dragon, but it's exact role is unknown to me. But we can assume that it holds significance in the kingdom of Nohr, given how no one seems to suspect anything of Garon praying/consulting it in the castle. Presumably, the real Garon might have done something similar when he was alive. But the dragon he was praying to/consulting, was not yet 'Hydra'.

I'm not certain just how credible the news on here is but:

http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Anankos

It says that Hydra/Anankos " poses as the sacred mystical dragon of Nohr and controls it in secret through his familiar, who is disguised as King Garon after killing him."

It says that Hydra controls it in secret, hinting that the Nohrian Dragon is in fact real. I'm assuming during the events of the game, the actual Dragon is essentially a vegetable/ is corrupted, allowing Hydra to speak through it and masquerade as the Nohr Dragon. So what the people in the castle see as King Garon asking the Nohr Dragon for advice, is really the Water Familiar communicating with its master.

Kamui is the son of Hydra, but I doubt he'll have the extended lifespan of a dragon since he ages normally. The fact there don't seem to be any Manaketes in the game, or that Hydra never assumes a humanoid form leads me to believe that maybe rather than Hydra "sleeping" with Mikoto, he had Kamui created with her as a human base.

In her supports with her son, Aqua mentions that it's her pendant that gives her singing power, not something she's been born with. At the least, the pendant and her song (I believe her song) have origins leading back to Hydra. Her pendant and knowledge of song was given to her by her mother. So with the exception of Dragon Vein, I don't believe there's anything actually 'special' about Aqua as a being, so she might age normally.

Aqua could have been born from the power of the actual Dark Dragon, something Shenmei might have known about given her relation to Hydra. Aqua could have very well been raised in Nohr with Garon and Shenmei for a time before her kidnapping, unknown to the other siblings as in their supports they say that there were actually several Nohr Royal Siblings, not just the 4 we know. They had all been separated/killed during a power struggle among Garon's concubines.

And that's pretty much all I've gathered with the very limited info available to us.

[FireMblum]

I checked the 3rd route dialogue, specifically Chapter 19 and...

Azura's father was the king of the Invisible Kingdom, but he was killed by Anankos.

That said, I dunno if the Light Dragon and Dark Dragon are separate entities or simply manifestations of Anankos.

Woohoo! So Kamui/Aqua aren't related!? Sweet.

Edit: Crud, I meant to edit this into my post above :/

Edited July 3, 2015 by FireMblum

[VincentASM]

I thought Azura was Anankos's child at first, but I doubted IS would let you have any kind of incest.

The part where she talks about her father is pretty clear; she mentions it when the others ask her about her relationship to the Invisible Kingdom. To which she responds she's their princess (and her father was the previous king)

Also... I haven't checked, but it's possible the Shenmey in the 3rd route is a Familiar.. So maybe she didn't fake her death. All the other bosses in the Invisible Kingdom are Familiars (Crimson, Mikoto, Sumeragi and Gunter), so it would make sense for Shenmey to be one too.

Plus her chapter is named "Kindred Shenmey" or rather "Shenmey the Familiar" (the "kindred/kin" is likely a reference to Familiars being literally "Water Kin").

[FireMblum]

I thought Azura was Anankos's child at first, but I doubted IS would let you have any kind of incest.

The part where she talks about her father is pretty clear; she mentions it when the others ask her about her relationship to the Invisible Kingdom. To which she responds she's their princess (and her father was the previous king)

Also... I haven't checked, but it's possible the Shenmey in the 3rd route is a Familiar.. So maybe she didn't fake her death. All the other bosses in the Invisible Kingdom are Familiars (Crimson, Mikoto, Sumeragi and Gunter), so it would make sense for Shenmey to be one too.

Plus her chapter is named "Kindred Shenmey" or rather "Shenmey the Familiar" (the "kindred/kin" is likely a reference to Familiars being literally "Water Kin").

Interesting. I thought it was strange that Aqua's recollections of her mother was that she was loving, when she's a villain. I guess it's similar to what Elise said about Garon

.

Edited July 3, 2015 by FireMblum

[RedMage]

[spoiler=The hypothetical lifespans of several characters]

So, we know that Corrin's father is the dragon Ananakos, and that Azura's father is an as yet unnamed dark dragon.

Would it be reasonable to assume that both these characters being half dragons, that they could live far longer than normal humans, barring of course, death in battle or Azura dissolving into water? Perhaps not as long as the Manaketes of Akaneia millennia long lifespans, but surely a few centuries wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility.

Would these long lifespans also be passed down to their children, Kanna/Shigure/etc, as well?

No incest in this game. Unless you count family through marriage/adoption as incest. I think they would live longer. But the thought of Kamui outliving their spouse/siblings/friends kinda seems sad.

[Cirex101]

No incest in this game. Unless you count family through marriage/adoption as incest. I think they would live longer. But the thought of Kamui outliving their spouse/siblings/friends kinda seems sad.

Never said that there was incest.

[Titamon]

Garon being killed and replaced by a water creature is so reminiscent of final fantasy 4's plot.

[Book of Ereshkigal]

Garon being killed and replaced by a water creature is so reminiscent of final fantasy 4's plot.

I'm personally somewhat reminded of Vigarde being a corpse-pupped and the Dark Warlords in FE5

[goodperson707]

true but final fantasy 4 actually had a water creature doing the replacing, not dark-stone necromancy shenanigans, this one seems longer lasting in the story than both of those however. Though besides the basic premise of water related monster posing as king the water familiar(s) and cagnazzo don't have much in common. For example i believe the familiar(s) uses weapons like the person they are pretending to be and cagnazzo fights like a monster, also one of the reasons cagnazzo seems to be replacing the king is his title of drowned king they probably could have used a different monster but water familiars main purpose seems to be the shapeshifting.