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Surprisingly Powerful/Weak Units (Character Spoilers)

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Benoit: Generals are good with Defensive Formation

Flora: Comes late, but is decent staff or debuff filler. Slow though.

Hana: Training up Bow rank from scratch might be a little tedious (or you can save arms scrolls), though it does get around the glass cannon problem somewhat.

Oooh, thank you. I was curious about those two. And I *do* have one more question...

This could make or break the game for me.

... how's Harold? :3

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Oooh, thank you. I was curious about those two. And I *do* have one more question...

This could make or break the game for me.

... how's Harold? :3

I'm not so sure, but on paper his stats are pretty good. Axes are a bit eh in my opinion but I'm sure it can work out somehow.

Wonder why Elise's two subordinates are so overly strong.

Both of them have >50% in HP/STR/SPD/DEF which is rather silly

Edited by CocoaGalaxy

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I'm not so sure, but on paper his stats are pretty good. Axes are a bit eh in my opinion but I'm sure it can work out somehow.

Wonder why Elise's two subordinates are so overly strong.

Both of them have >50% in HP/STR/SPD/DEF which is rather silly

Maybe because she's a small healer, and the little baby sister, so they give her really OP subordinates to help protect her?

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Maybe because she's a small healer, and the little baby sister, so they give her really OP subordinates to help protect her?

Nah, I would guess that they have good growths because they liked them or something.

By that logic, shouldn't Sakura's subordinates Hana and Tsubaki have growths as good as theirs? Hana's growths look decent, but not as good as theirs, and Tsubaki' seem pretty bad.

Speaking of Tsubaki, can anyone tell me if he is as bad as he looks? He's definitely one of my favorite characters from Fates, but I was really disappointed in his growths and stat mods. That 35% speed growth kills me...

Edited by Sapphire~

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I'm not so sure, but on paper his stats are pretty good. Axes are a bit eh in my opinion but I'm sure it can work out somehow.

Wonder why Elise's two subordinates are so overly strong.

Both of them have >50% in HP/STR/SPD/DEF which is rather silly

It's probably because they're one of the first units you acquire during the Nohr campaign. Since the game suddenly peaks up in difficulty, they probably wanted to give you units that would be easy to train (and thus help you get comfortable with the concept).

Edited by Minischew

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Effie is just broken.

Kazahana is just ... niche, I guess. I'm probably going to be robing her, since her HP/Def is junk but at level 20 she hits 19 Str and 23 Spd. What you probably want to do is A+ Setsuna, fix her up with Prescient Victory, Bowfaire, Line of Death and Galeforce in GKW, so that she can do her Player-Phase nuke thing. Line of Death makes the durability-of-paper thing worse, so Renewal isn't even something you want to bother with, but even Rinkah doesn't have that solid a Str growth and letting the second-highest Str growth in Hoshido go to waste seems like a bad idea. In earlygame focus on PP axe-user kills, since WTA + Flowing Strike will help circumvent the durability. Towards midgame pair her up with Setsuna chip and/or Oboro+Takumi Defense Sealed enemy units [between Kagerou, Orochi, Rinkah and Azura's dances cleaning up shouldn't be too tough]. Deffers reserve scrolls for her and plan to have her end up with Bows. I'm thinking Samurai -> Bowman -> Holy Bowman -> dip in Weapon Master -> Falcon? -> GKW. Lol lance rank, but very specialized in exploding things dead on PP. With +19 from the mentioned Skills her Zanshin damage output is 41 before you add her strength. Ahem.

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The silly thing is that, if reclassed into a Physical Class, Asama might actually be pretty good

Asama as a Mountain Priest has 65% HP, 65% Str, 60% Spd and 55% Def...

That already seems pretty good, though I haven't played the game so I wouldn't really know

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Speaking of Tsubaki, can anyone tell me if he is as bad as he looks? He's definitely one of my favorite characters from Fates, but I was really disappointed in his growths and stat mods. That 35% speed growth kills me...

Speaking from a purely theoretical standpoint, I think he's salvageable, but only as a Samurai/Trueblade. His passive gives him a sweet +15 AVO to help circumvent that low SPD growth, but only at full health, so he kind of has to find a way to dodge-tank without relying on SPD so he can stay at full health so he can keep dodge-tanking, if that makes sense. Trueblade has a base +10 AVO, so add that to his passive and Flowing Strike and he should be pretty untouchable on the ally turn. Also, though his SPD sucks, his HP and DEF are actually pretty good, so adding on Vantage is a good way to protect him during the enemy turn for when his evasion fails him.

If you want him to be a flier, Golden Kite is pretty safe, since it keeps him out of the way of retaliation, and he can use bows like the Steel Yumi (ability to double attack -3,) Expert Yumi (cannot double attack, has 3 range,) or Horizontal Yumi (cannot double attack, has 1-2 range) pretty safely since his SPD is likely crap anyway. He is very bad as a Falcon Knight combatant, but he's an outstanding Falcon Knight healer, since he has surprisingly high MAG (20% for a not-primarily-a-mage is outstanding).

So, he's strange and you have to do strange things with him to make him work, but he's not completely useless, especially since he can ALWAYS become a Falcon Knight staff-user and be useful that way no matter how screwed his stats get, which frees you up to put Sakura or Asama into combat classes (since their growths are kind of ridiculous).

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I had also thought of the Trueblade Subaki idea…. +15 Avoid from his personal, +10 avoid from the Trueblade class, and +30 from Flowing Strike gives a +55 avoid bonus… combine that with the weapon triangle and you could have someone very hard to touch on the player phase.

I hadn't thought about Golden Kite Warrior, but it makes sense.

And of course, you're right, staff bots are useful.

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So, he's strange and you have to do strange things with him to make him work, but he's not completely useless, especially since he can ALWAYS become a Falcon Knight staff-user and be useful that way no matter how screwed his stats get, which frees you up to put Sakura or Asama into combat classes (since their growths are kind of ridiculous).

That's exactly what I did in my Hoshido run. Sakura and Asama make better offensive units than healers, and flying healers are always useful.

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Of the two axe wielders of Nohr, which promotions would Harold and Charlotte best be used for, Berserker or Hero?

I'm pretty sure Charlotte would make a better Zerker. Dunno about Harold.

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There seem to be lot of sucky units. :/

The problem is... low HP is a wide spread issue among many troops so... bluntly speaking a lot of other units can just as well benefit from Seraph's robe, some more so than others have a slightly better combination of HP and def/res. That aside, its really a matter of whether you like the character or not but just saying Seraph robe's are going to be in high enough demand as is so its really between you trying to min/max or just helping along a favorite, but even then don't expect it to solve the issue entirely for some units who have such bad HP bases anyway.

Very, very much this. It doesn't help that stat-enhancing items are very rare. :/

I leveled her up a lot, and I loved using Elfie, it bothers me.

Hmm, how is Izana stat-wise ? Here a comparison with Leon. Nohr side of course.

Leon Dark Knight lv10

Str 16 Mag 25 Skl 16 Spd 20 Lck 18 Def 19 Res 24

Izana Exorcist lv7 The freaking level I gained him, like seriously.

Str8 Mag 24 Skl 26 Spd 19 Lck 18 Def 15 Res 25

What's up with this game giving me character that are better than the one I train ? ><

Of the two axe wielders of Nohr, which promotions would Harold and Charlotte best be used for, Berserker or Hero?

You shoud probably go Hero first just for Sol, then, straight Berserker.

Edited by B.Leu

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What's up with this game giving me character that are better than the one I train ? ><

Leon's a more rounded unit growth wise, a.k.a. Leon got RNG screwed/Izana's blessed.

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How can Izana be RNG blessed, since it's his base stats ? >_>

I shouldn't complain since I have so many good units like Mozume and Kaze, but geez.

Oh well, thanks for answering !

Edited by B.Leu

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How can Izana be RNG blessed, since it's his base stats ? >_>

I shouldn't complain since I have so many good units like Mozume and Kaze, but geez.

Oh well, thanks for answering !

Oh. Didn't know that. And glad I could be of help.

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Leon's stats look pretty par tbh

But remember, Leon also has a personal tome with good mt and no drawbacks, so that's a thing. Only thing Izana really has over Leon right there is skill, though.

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Speaking from a purely theoretical standpoint, I think he's salvageable, but only as a Samurai/Trueblade. His passive gives him a sweet +15 AVO to help circumvent that low SPD growth, but only at full health, so he kind of has to find a way to dodge-tank without relying on SPD so he can stay at full health so he can keep dodge-tanking, if that makes sense. Trueblade has a base +10 AVO, so add that to his passive and Flowing Strike and he should be pretty untouchable on the ally turn. Also, though his SPD sucks, his HP and DEF are actually pretty good, so adding on Vantage is a good way to protect him during the enemy turn for when his evasion fails him.

If you want him to be a flier, Golden Kite is pretty safe, since it keeps him out of the way of retaliation, and he can use bows like the Steel Yumi (ability to double attack -3,) Expert Yumi (cannot double attack, has 3 range,) or Horizontal Yumi (cannot double attack, has 1-2 range) pretty safely since his SPD is likely crap anyway. He is very bad as a Falcon Knight combatant, but he's an outstanding Falcon Knight healer, since he has surprisingly high MAG (20% for a not-primarily-a-mage is outstanding).

So, he's strange and you have to do strange things with him to make him work, but he's not completely useless, especially since he can ALWAYS become a Falcon Knight staff-user and be useful that way no matter how screwed his stats get, which frees you up to put Sakura or Asama into combat classes (since their growths are kind of ridiculous).

I think it's also worth mentioning that Tsubaki has a good skill growth and cap that everyone just seems to be ignoring.

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I think it's also worth mentioning that Tsubaki has a good skill growth and cap that everyone just seems to be ignoring.

Very true, which is useful with Astra, which can help to pull up his offense if his SPD is failing and he can't double, which is another good reason to go Trueblade for at least a few levels. I don't think he has natural access to any other skills his SKL is useful for, but if you marry him to Luna on the Invisible Kingdom path and Marriage Seal him Sol, he'll be able to heal himself if he gets hit, which would be GREAT. Aegis or Pavise from F!Kamui would be cool options as well, or Basara's Breaking Sky.

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Very true, which is useful with Astra, which can help to pull up his offense if his SPD is failing and he can't double, which is another good reason to go Trueblade for at least a few levels. I don't think he has natural access to any other skills his SKL is useful for, but if you marry him to Luna on the Invisible Kingdom path and Marriage Seal him Sol, he'll be able to heal himself if he gets hit, which would be GREAT. Aegis or Pavise from F!Kamui would be cool options as well, or Basara's Breaking Sky.

In Invisible Kingdom he can also either A+ Zero or Romance Nyx I believe and both have access to Dark Mage, Tsubaki can spend some time as Sorcerer for Vengeance in the case he has HP shaved off him. He can make a good support unit too with Sun God AND possible staff utility not to mention access to Strength seal from Weapon Master. He also has Eastern Heart from Pegasus Knight to help keep his HP at full.

Also the best thing about Tsubaki as a unit is that his color scheme is really similar to the generic color scheme so he looks good as just about anything.

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You know what, other than having to build up weapon ranks, Subaki x Luna could make Subaki a fairly tanky Hero… he has Swordfaire access (although depending on practicalities you might not pull out too many level 15 promoted skills in one file), which in principle can be transferred over to Hero.

Hero has HP and SKL growths that complement his bases…. it also has SPD growths, which could help his speed at least stink less than it already does….

And he could combine potentially (as another option) Flowing Strike + Perfectionist + Axebreaker to really mess up enemy axe users… and Sol would actually help restore Perfectionist at times…. and Luna could likewise use a Flowing Strike + Axebreaker + Swordfaire combo if she wanted to…

There's also the issue that Luna has better availability than Hinoka in the 3rd route, even though growth wise Hinoka is the superior redhead mother for Matoi, so you'd be able to get started on Luna x Subaki long before Hinoka is even recruited.

EDIT:

Now that I think of it, the chance of a crit is calculated independently for every single hit of Astra, so he'd be able to do a nice job of fueling Luna's Competitive Personal Skill, that is if anything survived the Astra…. he has high skill growth and a +2 mod, which works out to a higher chance of activating it, and on top of it high skill gives an improved crit chance…. then, every time it activates, it has five chances to provide the crit Luna needs.

Edited by astrophys

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In Invisible Kingdom he can also either A+ Zero or Romance Nyx I believe and both have access to Dark Mage, Tsubaki can spend some time as Sorcerer for Vengeance in the case he has HP shaved off him. He can make a good support unit too with Sun God AND possible staff utility not to mention access to Strength seal from Weapon Master. He also has Eastern Heart from Pegasus Knight to help keep his HP at full.

IIRC Buddy Seals only give you access to your A+ Support's base class, so A+ing Zero would get Tsubaki Outlaw, not Dark Mage. Anyway, I wouldn't recommend Vengeance. Tsubaki wants to avoid getting hit at all costs, and if he does get hit, he needs to get healed ASAP, so his entire design revolves around minimizing the use for Vengeance. Sol and Eastern Heart would be much preferable IMO.

However, if Tsubaki can indeed A+ Zero, then he could become an Adventurer, giving him bows, staffs, and +20% SPD/RES growth all at the same time. That would be pretty nifty.

You know what, other than having to build up weapon ranks, Subaki x Luna could make Subaki a fairly tanky Hero… he has Swordfaire access (although depending on practicalities you might not pull out too many level 15 promoted skills in one file), which in principle can be transferred over to Hero.

Hero has HP and SKL growths that complement his bases…. it also has SPD growths, which could help his speed at least stink less than it already does….

And he could combine potentially (as another option) Flowing Strike + Perfectionist + Axebreaker to really mess up enemy axe users… and Sol would actually help restore Perfectionist at times…. and Luna could likewise use a Flowing Strike + Axebreaker + Swordfaire combo if she wanted to…

IMO Tsubaki makes a better Trueblade than Hero. He already has good HP and DEF; what he needs is more SPD and RES, or, more specifically, more AVO and RES. Trueblade has better SPD, offers base AVO, and gives RES instead of DEF growth.

Still, yes, he would become pretty tanky against physicals as a Hero, I think, and there's only a 5% SPD growth difference between Hero and Trueblade (although the free +10 AVO is hard to replace). And Sol definitely compliments Perfectionist beautifully, considering Tsubaki's SKL.

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Oh yeah, and Trueblade also has a +10 inherent crit bonus too, so if he was with Luna, he'd want to end up as that to benefit his wife that way, as she loves having husbands or pair-up partners who have boosted crit rates thanks to her personal skill.

So he might want to pick up some Hero skills, but ultimately return to Trueblade as a finishing class.

Well, I need to seriously get to work now, so I'll drop out of the conversation now.

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