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i'll admit i'm unsure, but i don't think trans-identities are an "act." one wouldn't explain homosexuality as a heterosexual person "pretending" to be attracted to their own gender. it is simply that way, due to (what one would think to be) genetics. i'm a straight male because i'm genetically that way--a transgender, asexual person is that way for the same reason.

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A trans gender person is a dude (XY) "pretending" to be a lady (XX), or vice versa.

Actually it isn't always the case, there are some weird genetic conditions out there.

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^Ok thats for sure true. But I don't care if someone is transgender because they want to be or have to be, either way in my opinion it isn't any of my business.

The point I am trying to make is that biological or not, being transgender doesn't affect people. On the flip side, being biologically inclined to do something doesn't make it okay either.

How many people do you think are biologically attracted to little kids? Society doesn't blame you for being attracted to kids, they blame you when you actually sexually abuse them right? I know that is a hilariously extreme example but its my favorite.

I for one am a huge fan of the booty. If I walk around with a shirt that says "I love da booty" then I have indeed taken upon the public role of a man who loves da booty. Most people would be okay with that. If I walk around hooting and complimenting men and women on their bodacious bods, people might consider that harassment. Loving the booty and expressing my love in a way that doesn't impede on others rights is okay, but expressing my love in the form of harassment is not okay.

I won't ever find a perfect analogy, but I can do this for days.

Edited by georgetruman

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Actually it isn't always the case, there are some weird genetic conditions out there.

Yeah. I don't see how trans people are "pretending" at all.

For one, they'd likely not go through months of hormones and vocal training and then have surgery just to pretend.

They'd be facing all the scorn coming their way.

yeah uh georgetruman that was not a very good choice of words

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I'm going to charitably assume that the comparisons have been exceptionally poorly worded and chosen (if they actually represent beliefs, then wow lmao) and go back to an earlier point - no, people are not going to be happy if they don't have friends, they sure as fuck won't be productive. Would you employ someone who howled like a fucking wolf in public?

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There are plenty of occupations out there for people who are totally out there, farming being a great example. You can't just project your own versions of happiness on other people life doesn't work that way. People have different values and tastes. Their upbringing and biology are different and they feel different ways about different things.

Also, you need to open your mind if you want to understand others' analogies. If you listen to somebodies point with the intention of not believing them, you are never going to get their meaning. I have made the point multiple times that I find howling to be rude (depending on the volume), but why would I be bothered by someone walking around on all fours sniffing the ground? If I did let that bother me, what does that say about me? Nobody is answering those questions.

Again, I don't know what kind of friends you guys have but mine could give two shits what I do when I am not around them, so long as I am not hurting people. Why would I want friends that gave a shit about that stuff anyway? That would frankly be bonkers.

Edited by georgetruman

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Again, I don't know what kind of friends you guys have but mine could give two shits what I do when I am not around them, so long as I am not hurting people. Why would I want friends that gave a shit about that stuff anyway? That would frankly be bonkers.

If you wanted an apt comparison it wouldn't be in private as stated by others previously because they likely would never know unless you actively told them. Try being the weird person that licks the bread in the supermarket and making strange noises because you really like bread when you're with them and see how they feel then.

Most people would not react positively, or put up with your shit. That's the point.

I have made the point multiple times that I find howling to be rude (depending on the volume), but why would I be bothered by someone walking around on all fours sniffing the ground? If I did let that bother me, what does that say about me? Nobody is answering those questions.

Would I think positively about that person doing that randomly? It's still as distracting and unnerving to others.

No. I would likely say "please stop doing that" if I'm their friend.

Edited by Tryhard

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Do you understand why licking bread is almost objectively unacceptable though? Because it spreads germs. If I find out that my friend secretly licks bread in the supermarket I am absolutely going to try to stop him that is obvious.

Also do you see how subjective the second point is. A lot of "acceptable" behaviors are still distracting and unnerving to people. I kind of think its gross when people kiss in bars but some people are okay with it. I have the power to get over it.

If doing it really brought your friend happiness and joy, would you really tell him to stop or do you think that people could just get over it?

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Also do you see how subjective the second point is. A lot of "acceptable" behaviors are still distracting and unnerving to people. I kind of think its gross when people kiss in bars but some people are okay with it. I have the power to get over it.

If doing it really brought your friend happiness and joy, would you really tell him to stop or do you think that people could just get over it?

See, *I've* been trying to tell you that "acceptable" (and "respectful" and a number of other things) are far too squishy for us to appeal to--on either side. If people opposed to it can't reference acceptability, because whether something is acceptable is too difficult to define, I don't really think you have any room to be appealing to (or assuming) respectfulness, either, which is also extremely squishy.

And if something like this really, truly brought "happiness and joy" (why are you assuming that this is a hugely fulfilling, self-actualizing thing?) to a friend, y'know what I'd do? I'd take that friend aside and tell him, "Hey. This thing you're doing. *I* don't give a shit. You do what makes you happy, and I'll just try to deal. But you should know, this is not a wise thing to flaunt in public. I'm sorry to say that. But it's worth thinking about how other people will treat you, as a result of your actions. Don't let them get to you, but remember that they may have things you want."

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To try to get everything out in the open, there has been a bit of uninformed supposition of both what it means to be otherkin in this thread, and of how blah's sister specifically is interpreting it. This may in part be because as much as blah has said of his sister, enough about her behavior and feelings has been left unsaid that it's still easy enough for us posting here to form assumptions of what exactly she's said and done that are based on our own feelings towards and (lack of) knowledge of otherkin. And most of us have been pretty comfortable expressing negative opinions drawn from outsider perspectives, which doesn't make for a very appealing environment for somebody to come forward and say "I'm one of those dudes you're talking shit about, here's what I have to add" (as has been noted by princeymarmar). It also probably doesn't help mitigate the appearance of a dogpiling that Ritisa's more conciliatory post went without much notice.

Of course, if blah's sister isn't both forthcoming and at least somewhat articulate on the subject, even knowing exactly what's being dealt with in the first place could be difficult at best, and if no otherkin come out to post, then those negative outsider opinions (and maybe a bit about adolescence as a work in progress) are about all we've got to add or go on. (Which is why I ducked saying pretty much anything actually to do with otherkin entirely on page two)

[spoiler=mostly-pointless, insubstantial addition on otherkin themselves]The most I can remember from the very little I found to read on "the data, regarding real, dyed-in-the-wool (adult) otherkin" a long time ago on Wikipedia went roughly something like "brain scans didn't pick up any structures or patterns they could identify as particularly anomalous, but they also didn't pick up any indications that the person was claiming something they believed was anything other than the absolute truth." Maybe just... keep that in mind, as a possibility if nothing else, if you're ever frustrated enough that you find yourself about to adopt the "tell her she's 'NOT A GODDAMN WOLF.' until she she agrees with you" approach, blah.

The whole otherkin thing could go such a dizzying number of ways that I wouldn't even fixate on it, at least not compared to simply putting it in the context of blah's relationship with her.

Like, maybe she'll always consider it an aspect of her identity, but will acquiesce to your requesting she learn to hide her power level a little. Maybe she'll only get louder and prouder with time, and resent every single instance where she was told to suppress [what ends up being] a core part of her identity. Maybe she and blah will just laugh the whole thing off later. Maybe it'll likewise become something she considers "a thing I grew out of," but resent that her family was harsher than she would've liked in reacting to it. Or maybe she'll wish it had been somehow drilled out of her sooner! Based on what blah has posted, these are all within the realm of real possibilities.

At least from where I'm standing, it's much easier to start out with a focus on what can be done than it is to try to force her to unconditionally accept the demand that she be broken of it immediately. Reiterating amiabletemplar, what can be done, at a minimum, is that she can have the potential consequences for whatever she's doing explained to her, and she can be reminded of the how others may see her (particularly when she does something that imposes on other people, like howling). At some point, though, the decision on how to act, with that information in mind, can only come down to her.

People do sometimes do things they regret, to be sure, and can even do things they wish others had dissuaded them from, but dissuasion doesn't necessarily require antagonizing them even if you're set on it. I think it's possible to come out of this quote on her side unquote even if she doesn't immediately do as you wish.

Edited by Rehab

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