Best ninja?

[soapycord]

Which of the three ninjas Kagero, Kaze and Saizo would you consider to be the best of the the three of them and why?

[shed]

Usually kaze because of availability. Though I always pick saizo whenever I can because he's cooler to me.

[Gaia]

Kaze. He's available in all 3 routes, and his speed and res growths are insane. He also doesn't suffer from the low hp problem that the other two have.

[saisymbolic]

Kaze for availability. Kagero has a pretty high STR rating for a ninja but her HP and DEF makes her a sort of glass cannon. As much as I love me some Saizou, I would rate him the least useful of the ninja trio due to being average or worse in the stats that Kaze and Kagero excel in, in my opinion.

Edited March 21, 2016 by SaiSymbolic

[BlindCoco]

I'm going to disagree with everyone here and say Saizo is the best. His bulk gives him frontline potential Kagero/Kaze can only dream of. He doesn't need any more speed than a pairup can give him.

He can hit on the physical/magical side with the same potential. Overall pretty great imho.

[Shadow Knight]

Saizo is the best in my opinion. He generally has the best Defense of the 3 and while Kaze is faster, Kaze's str and def is generally pitiful. Kagero is impressive with her str, but def is very important in the late game.

I tend to drop the ninjas towards the endgame though. They are just too flimsy and I can easily do their job myself as until the Vanguard seal comes out I play a dread fighter.

[ZodiacSoldier]

Also for Saizo, I'm not sure if its for me only but he actually has Magic Stat to use Flame Shuriken effectively, Kagero and Kaze has like 1 or 2 Mag stats, while Saizo has 25 or something.

[shed]

I'm going to disagree with everyone here and say Saizo is the best. His bulk gives him frontline potential Kagero/Kaze can only dream of. He doesn't need any more speed than a pairup can give him.

He can hit on the physical/magical side with the same potential. Overall pretty great imho.

I actually did a birthright lunatic run and found saizo stronger than kaze when late game rolled around as there are so many physical units that kaze couldn't really do shit to. His poor defence growth really caught up to him and he was getting nearly 1 shotted all over the place. I find kaze easier to train earlier on, but between both units with a good amount of investment, I think saizo is stronger. Kaze is easier to use because he gets more experience early on and feeds on mages for free experence.

[Genevie]

Kaze for me

my Kaze always succeed to avoid the hit if <70%, and he is my critical machine (70% crit trigger with barb shuriken)

i rarely use Saizo, his base stats is overall better than Kaze, but if i must choose i choose Kaze

[Jedi]

I think all 3 are pretty solid, I'm using all of them on lunatic and such, but I think Kaze is overall the best due to availability

[ILikeKirbys]

Out of Kaze, Saizo, and Kagero... I dunno, honestly.

*Disclaimer: I'm gonna be talking from personal experience, mostly. Also not bothering with marriage/A+ reclass options, because there are lots. Alsoalso assuming Birthright, because I haven't played Revelation and Kaze is obviously the best on Conquest because the other two don't join your party.

I don't really care for Kagero. Never used her, so I may be wrong about some of the stuff I'm about to write.

I doubt she's bad, honestly. She has a great Strength growth and base (15 is good, right?), and her Speed is... the same as Kaze's when he joined you, so it's not great, but she'll get more in a few levels (hopefully). Her Resistance seems like it could be good too (better than her Defense, at any rate). However, her Defense looks like crap, and it probably won't get much better without Dracoshields or good luck (speaking of which... I dunno where exactly the line is for bad Luck, but Kagero's seems acceptable to me... She isn't Arthur, at any rate), and her HP is worrisome (nothing a Seraph Robe can't fix, but still). More importantly, her Skill growth looks rather bad, and her base is something Saizo starts above and Kaze should probably be above in one or two levels (or at least, that happens with mine...). She's probably not bad (1-2 range (3 with Spy's Shuriken) is a great thing, and she does have great Strength).

On her personal skill... Shuriken Mastery is okay if Kagero gets attacked with a Shuriken/Dagger... Don't remember if she still gets debuffed by Shuriken/Daggers tho, but she probably does. Still, it's a very specific Counter with debuffs, which is nice for when Kagero has to eat a hit.

Regarding her promotion... Master Ninja's Lethality has a Skill-based activation, and Kagero's skill isn't good, so probably not worth it. Shurikenfaire is additional damage, and that's always good if you have room, but Kagero's Strength is high enough that she probably doesn't need even more damage. Mechanist's Golembane... Does it work on Faceless and/or Stoneborn? If it does, it can be semi-worthwhile to deal with those, otherwise it's not needed. Replicate, however, is just awesome, giving you an extra Kagero to work with. So long as you're careful (remember, they share inventory and the same HP), it's very useful to have an extra unit, even if it's just to Pair Up with someone.

As for what you can get out of her reclass option... Diviner would be alright if Kagero had a Magic growth. She doesn't though, so it's not worth it until she promotes. After promotion, Basara has Rend Heaven, which she could probably use, and Quixotic, which would help her if she's having trouble hitting (which she could, her Skill doesn't seem good at all). Onmyoji has nothing worth taking, unless you want Rally Magic for some reason (why you would is beyond me, but like I said, I've never bothered with Kagero).

Overall... Kagero cripples foes with high damage and debuffs... If she hits them. And she'd appreciate it if you kept her away from enemies who can hit back, what with her low HP and bad Defense. Maybe she could take a magical shot or two, her Resistance seems rather good. Ultimately, she's probably usable, but I've never bothered with her, since every iteration of the Super Saizo Bros have ended up as more solid (if not just straight up better) units.

I like Kaze, he's alright. His Speed is solid to begin with and just keeps on growing, his Resistance is good enough to make him a solid mage-killer (especially since those don't tend to have much Defense, so Kaze can hit them fairly hard), and unlike Kagero his Skill is solid, so he'll generally have a solid hit rate. His Strength isn't amazing, but it'll get the job done, the job being wrecking mages and dealing a bit of damage while applying debuffs. His Luck is near Arthur levels (not quite that bad, but it's not good, and it probably won't go too much higher), and his Defense is crap, so please keep him away from physical enemies. Overall, he's a very solid mage-killer and debuff-applier, and can dodge very well, but crumbles even faster than Kagero if physical foes can hit him.

Regarding his personal skill... Miraculous Save is like Miracle; nice when it activates, but hopefully you never end up in a situation where you need it to. Not a bad skill tho.

Regarding his promotion... Master Ninja's Lethality is alright for Kaze, since he'll have respectable Skill, but it's not something he really benefits especially much from, while Shurikenfaire is amazing for Kaze, given his relative weakness. Mechanist's Golembane isn't especially useful unless you're up against a bunch of Stoneborn (I think)/Automata/other Mechanists. Replicate gives you two Kazes. No need to elaborate there, that's just a great thing to have.

As for what you can get out of his reclass option... Samurai brings Duelist's Blow, which is awesome for Kaze since he really, really would appreciate extra Avoid, even if it's just while attacking, and Vantage, which is much appreciated by someone as frail as Kaze. Swordmaster gives him Astra, which is a nice plus when it activates, and Swordfaire, which is much appreciated when he's a Master Ninja/Swordmaster/Master of Arms. Speaking of which, Master of Arms brings Seal Strength, which is just amazing for Kaze, since he'd really like to deal with low-Strength enemies if he has to deal with physical enemies, and Life or Death, which... Only if you're really confident in Kaze's Avoid, because he'll be taking far more damage if it fails him.

Overall... Kaze is a stellar mage-mauler and debuff-applier, and he could even serve as a decent avoid-tank in a pinch (don't rely on it too much, but still, you can), but his Defense will always be meh at best, his damage will be low without Shuriken-/Swordfaire, and he's going to die if a strong physical unit breathes on him. He's worth building an A support quickly with.

Saizo is just solid. His HP is alright, his Strength is good and gets better quickly (and his Magic growth is surprisingly high too, so maybe toss him a magic weapon or two), and his Skill is very, very good (the best of the three ninja), his Speed isn't quite Kaze fast, but it's also rather good, and his Luck is solid, and unlike Kaze and Kagero, his Defense starts good and stays there. His Resistance, however, is utter crap, and it's not going to get better without... whatever the Resistance-growing stat booster is (I forgot, sorry). Overall, Saizo's stats are great, so long as you don't let a mage near him.

Regarding his personal skill... Pyrotechnics would be a beautiful thing if it didn't also harm Saizo... and also if it didn't require getting him to low HP to use in the first place. Still, you can throw a low-health Saizo into a group of enemies, chip them down with Pyrotechnics, and heal Saizo afterward, or Rescue him back to safety.

Regarding his promotion... Master Ninja's Lethality is actually probably usable on Saizo, since his Skill is great, but it's not strictly necessary, and Shurikenfaire is alright if you feel his damage needs a boost, but isn't needed either. Mechanist's Golembane is situational, so I wouldn't recommend it. Replicate gives you another Saizo. Why wouldn't you want another Saizo?

As for what you can get out of his reclass option... Samurai's Duelist's Blow is alright. Saizo doesn't appreciate it as much as Kaze does, but it's still a large Avoid boost, and that's nice. Vantage is always welcome. Swordmaster's Astra is pretty okay, it's a bunch of hits, and Swordfaire is more damage, which is alright. Master of Arms's Seal Strength is very nice, Saizo's Defense means that he can push physical damage very low with that as well as helping squishier teammates by lowering enemy Strength. Life or Death... I dunno, depends on whether or not Saizo can take the additional damage. I wouldn't use it, but that might just be me being overly cautious.

Overall... Saizo is great. He can deal solid damage, his Skill means you can rely on him to hit things, his Speed is good, and his Defense means he can function against physical foes (between that and dodging, he can probably last a while). Don't let magical enemies near him though, he and his low Resistance don't want anything to do with them unless he's one-shotting them.

So, to answer your question (based solely on my opinion):

1) Saizo, because he's just really solid.

2) Kaze, for being a great mage-killer.

3) Kagero, for coming later than Kaze and Saizo and being very fragile.

But that's just my opinion. Could be totally wrong.

Edit: holy crap I missed a whole bunch of responses while I was typing this up.

Edited March 21, 2016 by ILikeKirbys

[MitoRequiem]

I like Kaze the best, You get him early and RInkah can fix his issues when paired up and I mean why wouldn't you use pairup anyways.

I'd say

Kaze > Saizo > Kagero but I could see why people would consider Saizo better I think as far as maximizing goes Saizo is better but I don't think that's relevant for this topic is it?

Either way I think it comes down to Kaze and Saizo which I would side with Kaze on this one.

[Byleth]

I prefer Saizo because even at first he will have problem doubling, but much later in you keep using him, he will have better stats than Kaze/Kagero. And he crit/proc skill more often than the other two..

[Griffonite]

Well, I didn't use Kagero, but between Saizo and Kaze, it depends for me. If Kaze gets good growths, he can start to outclass Saizo pretty early. On my birthright run, Kaze was kinda blessed, capping str, skl, spd, and def before promoting. I still used Saizo as a front liner, but he didn't see quite as much action as his brother.

However, Kaze on my conquest run sucks tbh. As a lvl. 4 master ninja, he has 14 str and 9 def. He's still a decent mage killer, but with those stats, he can't do much else unaided.

Saizo is more mixed in terms of defenses and has lower speed, but his decent magic growth means he can actually make use of the flame shuriken, meaning he can attack whichever stat is lower, def or res.

They both have their uses, so I'm reluctant to pick one over the other. Overall though, I think Saizo edges out Kaze by a razor thin margin.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Griffonite

[Thor Odinson]

Kaze does the one ninja job well enough and has availability, but Saizo if trained has a stronger mid/lategame--though Kaze is the one I can throw into mage piles and come out unscathed, so I wouldn't say he's useless late either (but I do run Dread Fighter on him to patch up his str and make his def sorta acceptable also effectively 39 res on EP is nice)

Saizo's stats are really flexible, though, so I like to run alternate builds with him because he can get away with a lot of things. Like being a full-time mage. Recently I married him to Rinkah and I'm having a blast with mixed Oni Chieftain Saizo as well--he's really fun to experiment with, even if Ninja is still really his best.

Haven't used Kagero so can't comment.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Thor Odinson

[Kakeyo]

Gameplay wise: Saizo. As a Dread Fighter he is beast. His resistance goes through the roof, his strength is amazing and even if his speed is middling (not even bad) his shuriken debuffing and one hit OK in the form of lethality (that procs fairly often) more than makes up for it.

Even as a Dread Fighter, Kaze is weak (strength, I mean). Additionally, I've played the game 4 times now (conquest twice, Hoshido once, Revelations once) and each and every time he is a fragile unit.

Kagero has Kaze's problem only worse. She hits hard, but her HP is super-duper low, only matched by her defense. She makes a great glass cannon, even as a Dread Fighter.

Character wise: Saizo. He's an unmitigated badass and has more character development than half the royals, I kid you not. His father was killed by enemy ninja, he feels responsible for avenging him, he has a past lover, lived in a tiny mountain village growing up and likes down-to-earth things, is sarcastic by fiercely loyal, puts duty over his own life, wants to carry on his line, hates himself for failure but never gives up, and so on. His support conversations aren't the same thing rehashed--they're different, show a different side of him and overall make him a good character.

Kaze is a nice guy. His supports show some of his back story, but they're very lackluster when compared to his twin, Saizo. His father was killed, but apparently he doesn't care. He knows how to peel potatoes. He never had a liege and vaguely blames himself for Corrin's kidnapping. Is easily fooled by people like Charlotte and apparently is oblivious to simple social ques. Just... a nice guy. The white bread of ninjas, if you will. Nothing wrong with him, but nothing to really latch on to either, in my opinion.

Kagero is weird. Her character is all over the place. She's always kidnapped, no matter the route you take, despite being an awesome ninja and retainer to Ryoma. That and she draws weird demon-babies on her downtime. Even though she doesn't really want to draw demon-babies... She's not overly dedicated to her job (though she does it well) and generally feels alone. She's rockin' a huge rack for some reason (but all the ninjas are! *dun dun chish*). Overall, she's the least developed and seems kinda out of place.

Overall: Saizo. He's cool, his unit is useful and I wish Kaze had been replaced by him as the ninja that follows you no matter what. Kagero comes in dead last.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Kakeyo

[The DanMan]

Kaze, for availability. Turn him into a Dread Fighter and he'll reliably ORKO and become pretty much immune to magic.

[axlorg89]

Kaze most definitely for availability. He kills mages fast for me too as a plus.

[FluffyWarlock]

Gameplay wise: Saizo. As a Dread Fighter he is beast. His resistance goes through the roof, his strength is amazing and even if his speed is middling (not even bad) his shuriken debuffing and one hit OK in the form of lethality (that procs fairly often) more than makes up for it.

Even as a Dread Fighter, Kaze is weak (strength, I mean). Additionally, I've played the game 4 times now (conquest twice, Hoshido once, Revelations once) and each and every time he is a fragile unit.

Kagero has Kaze's problem only worse. She hits hard, but her HP is super-duper low, only matched by her defense. She makes a great glass cannon, even as a Dread Fighter.

Character wise: Saizo. He's an unmitigated badass and has more character development than half the royals, I kid you not. His father was killed by enemy ninja, he feels responsible for avenging him, he has a past lover, lived in a tiny mountain village growing up and likes down-to-earth things, is sarcastic by fiercely loyal, puts duty over his own life, wants to carry on his line, hates himself for failure but never gives up, and so on. His support conversations aren't the same thing rehashed--they're different, show a different side of him and overall make him a good character.

Kaze is a nice guy. His supports show some of his back story, but they're very lackluster when compared to his twin, Saizo. His father was killed, but apparently he doesn't care. He knows how to peel potatoes. He never had a liege and vaguely blames himself for Corrin's kidnapping. Is easily fooled by people like Charlotte and apparently is oblivious to simple social ques. Just... a nice guy. The white bread of ninjas, if you will. Nothing wrong with him, but nothing to really latch on to either, in my opinion.

Kagero is weird. Her character is all over the place. She's always kidnapped, no matter the route you take, despite being an awesome ninja and retainer to Ryoma. That and she draws weird demon-babies on her downtime. Even though she doesn't really want to draw demon-babies... She's not overly dedicated to her job (though she does it well) and generally feels alone. She's rockin' a huge rack for some reason (but all the ninjas are! *dun dun chish*). Overall, she's the least developed and seems kinda out of place.

Overall: Saizo. He's cool, his unit is useful and I wish Kaze had been replaced by him as the ninja that follows you no matter what. Kagero comes in dead last.

Kaze didn't care about it because he didn't knew about the full circumstances. Also, Saizo is freaking Big Brother (as in, the monitor system from 1984) in his supports with Corn.

Edited March 22, 2016 by FluffyWarlock

[Kakeyo]

Kaze didn't care about it because he didn't knew about the full circumstances. Also, Saizo is freaking Big Brother (as in, the monitor system from 1984) in his supports with Corn.

Kaze and Sazo are the same age - if Saizo knows, its because he cared to find out. Kaze didn't know because he didn't care to follow up. It's just less interesting.

Big Brother? I mean, all supports are super short (so this is a complaint to the system rather than this support) but Saizo watched Corn for like an hour, helped him move some boxes and then decided he was cool. Big Brother he is not. xD

[eclipse]

Depends on what you need.

"I need this SOB shanked RIGHT NOW, and said SOB is really slow" - That's Kagero's job. She's got the best Strength out of the lot.

"I need someone who's decently durable and hits relatively hard" - That's Saizo, and I should try him out as a Great Master someday.

"This group of mages/squishies need to die" - That's what Kaze excels at. His really bad STR modifier will bite him come late game, though.

As long as Kagero gets someone speedy behind her, Saizo gets someone who gives him a balanced set of stats, and Kaze gets some attack/defense (SILAS), they'll be fine. If I had to go with personal preference, it would be Saizo for gameplay and Kagero for personality (a woman's allowed to change her mind, k?)

[Pretty Cool Guy]

I think that the ninjas all do better than each other on different paths. I'd say Saizo is the best on Birthright because he's got the best physical durability and his okay speed doesn't really bite him here. I think Kagero is the best in Revelations because her strong offensive growths and bases really help out against the mostly statistically strong enemies late game. Despite being the only ninja in Conquest (besides reclassed Laslow) I found that Kaze's high resistance helped me greatly against rooms of mages, and his insane speed let him double enemy ninjas come late game.

[FluffyWarlock]

Kaze and Sazo are the same age - if Saizo knows, its because he cared to find out. Kaze didn't know because he didn't care to follow up. It's just less interesting.

Big Brother? I mean, all supports are super short (so this is a complaint to the system rather than this support) but Saizo watched Corn for like an hour, helped him move some boxes and then decided he was cool. Big Brother he is not. xD

Leaving this here, from their C-rank support:

Saizo: That's classified. All you need to know is that I'm watching you. Always.

Avatar: Even when—

Saizo: ESPECIALLY then.

[Lady Sansa]

Kagero is the best if you leave them all as ninjas. Kaze has bad strength and Saizo has bad speed.

Kaze is the best with favoritism (Dread Scroll + Arms Scroll).

[joshcja]

Stat/skill pool wise....Uuuuuh, Laslow (His growths and mods are just hilariously better)

If the 3 main class ninja's got into a fight story wise I would have go with Kaze. Sorry Saizo and Jiggle Physics are just really bad at being ninja's ensuring Kaze that first lethal strike.

Edited March 22, 2016 by joshcja