JasonsOrigin Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 I don't hate Takumi. I understand him but he's not a favorite. Excellent follow up ally. #PraiseTakumi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoesntKnowHowToPlay Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Azama has natural access to Apothecary and manages to be buffer than both Takumi and Mozu, so no, Takumi is not a very good unit. Fujin Yumi is irrelevant when it doesn't let him walk across lava and you get a boatload of Kinshis in BR anyway. That said, it's not like it matters who you use in BR anyway, and Rev is a shitpost so it doesn't really matter too much. In the only campaign that matters, he's a hypocritical piece of shit. In the campaigns that don't matter, he's...exactly the same just on your side. #BlameTakumi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luankachu Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) Azama has natural access to Apothecary and manages to be buffer than both Takumi and Mozu, so no, Takumi is not a very good unit. Fujin Yumi is irrelevant when it doesn't let him walk across lava and you get a boatload of Kinshis in BR anyway. That said, it's not like it matters who you use in BR anyway, and Rev is a shitpost so it doesn't really matter too much. In the only campaign that matters, he's a hypocritical piece of shit. In the campaigns that don't matter, he's...exactly the same just on your side. #BlameTakumi Same arguments that I made for Mozu. E-Rank Bows for a while, no Fujin Yumi, and Heart Seals are limited. Azama being tankier doesn't matter if Takumi isn't hit at all, and Takumi usually dodges everything they throw at him anyway. I also see no reason to waste a Heart Seal on Azama when he gets enough STR as a Priest to be able to kick ass with Great Master while being early-promoted. I don't get what your point is when you said that Fujin Yumi is irrelevant when it doesn't let him walk across lava. Edit: And what makes him a hypocrite? Not woshipping the ground Corrin walks on? Defending his country? Edited April 13, 2016 by Luankachu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakkun Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) Azama has natural access to Apothecary and manages to be buffer than both Takumi and Mozu, so no, Takumi is not a very good unit. Fujin Yumi is irrelevant when it doesn't let him walk across lava and you get a boatload of Kinshis in BR anyway. That said, it's not like it matters who you use in BR anyway, and Rev is a shitpost so it doesn't really matter too much. In the only campaign that matters, he's a hypocritical piece of shit. In the campaigns that don't matter, he's...exactly the same just on your side. #BlameTakumi most people go Dread with Azama since its easier to utilize and level. Plus you guys are missing the point. Fuujin Yumi is an amazing weapon he gets upon recruit, and since he comes early and isnt a pre-promote, said weapon is easily abusable. That leads to more level ups, which leads to better stats, not to mention his rediculous skill growth, his personal, S Rank in bows, and bow's innate crit bonus have rightfully earned that nickname. The mobility bonus is just the cherry on top. Edited April 13, 2016 by Jakkun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoesntKnowHowToPlay Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) Edit: And what makes him a hypocrite? Not woshipping the ground Corrin walks on? Defending his country? Invading the neighboring country while calling the unyielding defenders cowards as he hides behind a wall of troops, saying he'll enjoy killing them, etc. I'm not even going to mention his role in BR because that's even more obvious. If you get Corrin to chat with Takumi in Ch10 Conquest he responds to her profuse apologies by musing that Nohrians don't have souls. Really don't see why people like the character so much. Fujin Yumi's inability to let Takumi cross lava/void/etc. is a detriment because there is very little terrain in late-game birthright that Fujin actually works on. Just using a Kinshi for mobility works better in Ch21, Ch23, and Ch24; the chapters in-between have no terrain whatsoever. With BR being a complete joke prior to Ch21 I don't see how the Fujin Yumi matters at all when discussing archers. Edited April 13, 2016 by DoesntKnowHowToPlay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakkun Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) iirc Chapter 10 was when he first started having those "headaches" so anything hateful about him is amplified while he is weak to Anankos' manipulation. and like I said Fujin Yumi matters because its an early game nuke. Edited April 13, 2016 by Jakkun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshcja Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) iirc Chapter 10 was when he first started having those "headaches" so anything hateful about him is amplified while he is weak to Anankos' manipulation. and like I said Fujin Yumi matters because its an early game nuke. He's not possessed on 10, just a really shit human being. The game plays the hoshidian combat theme for Takumi on 10 instead of the IK theme it plays for the rest of the game Edited April 13, 2016 by joshcja Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakkun Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) My bad, I've never fought Takumi on chapter 10, so my only points of reference are the pre and post chapter dialogue. Anyways all that does is make it go back to the point of "the dude's mom got killed because of Corrin/Nohr, so of course he's gonna hate them", but I digress. Edited April 13, 2016 by Jakkun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luankachu Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) Invading the neighboring country while calling the unyielding defenders cowards as he hides behind a wall of troops, saying he'll enjoy killing them, etc. I'm not even going to mention his role in BR because that's even more obvious. If you get Corrin to chat with Takumi in Ch10 Conquest he responds to her profuse apologies by musing that Nohrians don't have souls. Really don't see why people like the character so much. Fujin Yumi's inability to let Takumi cross lava/void/etc. is a detriment because there is very little terrain in late-game birthright that Fujin actually works on. Just using a Kinshi for mobility works better in Ch21, Ch23, and Ch24; the chapters in-between have no terrain whatsoever. With BR being a complete joke prior to Ch21 I don't see how the Fujin Yumi matters at all when discussing archers. 1) If he doesn't fight back the invasors, they are just gonna keep coming. For all Takumi knows, they've got more of those sword-bombs that they used to destroy the capital. There isn't a barrier to keep Hoshido safe anymore. Getting rid of the threat=Hoshido becoming safe again 2) Takumi doesn't hide behind a wall of troops. The cutscene right before the battle shows this. He is quite clearly fighting among them. 3) Takumi's aggresiveness towards Nohr is very played up in the localization. 4) Takumi is already possessed by then. The influence isn't much, but it is there. 5) Corrin's apologies are meaningless and don't reflect their actions, so Takumi is justified in calling them out on their bullshit. 6) Please elaborate on his role on Birthright. I see nothing wrong with it. 7) Takumi can promote to Kinshi. And the terrain bonuses don't really matter that much. It's an E-Rank Bow, with 14 MT 5%Crit and 10 Evade. Of the Generic Yumis, the only one with greater MT is the Silver one, with only 2MT over it, and it causes a Stat drop, doesn't have 5 Crit and doesn't have 10 evade. (Edit: In fact, most units aren't fliers, so they can't cross lava/void/whatever either. Why single out Takumi? And even then, fliers are unnecessary. One can easily beat chapter 12 without any fliers, so I assume that in the next chapters there's something similar.) 8) Have you read his supports? If you have and still don't like him, I honestly don't know what to tell you. Edited April 13, 2016 by Luankachu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elif Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Invading the neighboring country while calling the unyielding defenders cowards as he hides behind a wall of troops, saying he'll enjoy killing them, etc. I'm not even going to mention his role in BR because that's even more obvious. If you get Corrin to chat with Takumi in Ch10 Conquest he responds to her profuse apologies by musing that Nohrians don't have souls. Really don't see why people like the character so much. Fujin Yumi's inability to let Takumi cross lava/void/etc. is a detriment because there is very little terrain in late-game birthright that Fujin actually works on. Just using a Kinshi for mobility works better in Ch21, Ch23, and Ch24; the chapters in-between have no terrain whatsoever. With BR being a complete joke prior to Ch21 I don't see how the Fujin Yumi matters at all when discussing archers. Of course it's a personal choice whether you want to use him or not, but claiming that Fujin is useless in late game is a little bit rough as Takumi could easily promote to Kinshi in order to preserve the higher mobility in the maps Fujin appears to be not so useful. Fujin is still an excellent weapon without considering its effects, but relying on a single weapon just to use a character isn't ideal at all. Any bow on him is just as deadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakkun Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Of course it's a personal choice whether you want to use him or not, but claiming that Fujin is useless in late game is a little bit rough as Takumi could easily promote to Kinshi in order to preserve the higher mobility in the maps Fujin appears to be not so useful. Fujin is still an excellent weapon without considering its effects, but relying on a single weapon just to use a character isn't ideal at all. Any bow on him is just as deadly. This Also, my Takumi carries Fujin Yumi Killer Bow Spy's Yumi Crescent Bow Hunter's Bow and I can vouch for that. I'm probably gonna give my Spy's Yumi to a Kinshi for some Attack Stance shenanigans, but overall, this gets the job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowofchaos Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) The fact that on average, Takumi is pretty much more than just "usable" makes the statement of him being a bad unit comes down to dislike of the character rather than evaluation as a unit. This is the part where I state I hate this part of the FE fandom is because people can't admit they aren't disconnecting themselves enough from bias to not be able to properly evaluate a unit. From surface analysis alone... Takumi does not require any babying that other archers have been subjected to. His placement on the battlefield with bows with attack stance allow him to take out a unit and proceed to crit two more times with dual attacks on average in all my playthroughs. And this isn't even fully scrutinizing his contributions. Edited April 13, 2016 by shadowofchaos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakkun Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) This is the part where I state I hate this part of the FE fandom is because people can't admit they aren't disconnecting themselves enough from bias to not be able to properly evaluate a unit. With all do respect, I feel like my post (#80 to be exact) has been completely ignored if you're saying that, because I attempt to touch on similar points, yet people derailed it with "Takumi's a shitty person". Edited April 13, 2016 by Jakkun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roflolxp54 Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) It's like Takumi is trying to be the new mobile 3-13 archer that can be supported. 3-13 Insert Illuminati logic memes here. Half-Life Takumi confirmed. Takumi is Illuminati confirmed. Edited April 13, 2016 by Roflolxp54 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah the Prussian Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) Okay, I just rewatched both versions. The english localization says that the Hoshidan Forces had many injured. (Takumi: We can't push forward with so many of our troops injured. This can't be happening...) and the Fan Translation says that they took too much damage (Takumi: We've suffered too much damage, we can't afford to continue the invasion...!). Considering how Corrin has the magical ability to defeat them without killing them, I'm willing to believe that not that many people died then. When Takumi says "Your words mean nothing in the light of all innocent Hoshidan lives you took." he was talking about the Sword-Bomb thing from chapter 5 in the Japanese version. (Takumi: ...What? But you threatened the lives of innocent Hoshidan civilians. And then you took the life of our dear mother.) Takumi is also a lot less aggressive about Nohrians in the Japanese version. For example: (In response to Hinata telling him that the Nohrians are taking a battle formation) JP!Takumi: "There's no way they'd simply retreat. I wouldn't have it any other way." NA!Takumi: "Nohrians aren't like normal, decent people. They live for the thrill of battle. All the better. I shall delight in putting those cowards in their place." The impression I got was that this chapter was supposed to be similar to Awakening's chapter 15: Smoldering Resistance, but instead of you being the invasors, you're the defenders. I mean, sure, the Hoshidan army had already been there for a while unlike the Ylisseans, but they also need to prevent you from finding out about the Rainbow Sage and getting his power. You mentioned before that he was cowering behind his army, but I think that's a case of Gameplay and Story Segregation. In the cutscene right before the chapter starts, he was shown not only leading among them, but he was also right in front of them (Which is not where an archer should be.). Eh, I was under the impression that the first chapter where Corrin did that was 11, because it was the first time it was mentioned. In a better written game, seeing the death and destruction wrought in 10 would have inspired him to not kill. Then again, in a better written game he would kill. Anyway, the point is that Takumi doesn't know much of any of this, and is willing to send his men forwards all the same. I just like to ignore the no kill thing, because of how stupid it is, but, once again, Takumi is a poor leader, which, yes, he is a teenager, but don't give him a leadership position then.Edit: and based on how the. Nohrian royals are it would be reasonable to assume that the Hoshidan royals, Takumi included, get the same treatment. Edited April 13, 2016 by blah the Prussian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Knight Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) #BlameTakumi for life Edited April 13, 2016 by Shadow Knight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The DanMan Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 I really hate the Trumpkumi jokes. Trump is a very real threat to America if he gets elected while Takumi is an angry teenager who lost his parents to war and doesn't like Nohr for legitimate reasons (such as killing his parents and trying to invade his country), even if he's sometimes doesn't make the best decisions regarding it because he's an emotional shitty teenager with a lot of baggage. It's pretty gross to compare to the two. I like Takumi. Poor kid is suffering. Eh, Trump's a blabbermouth who couldn't get much through congress/the senate if he meant to because the democrats and half his own party are against him. Half of what he says he doesn't mean. (If he was truly racist and misogynist, instead of (a) acting off of people's desire for immigration reform and (b) acting like a knee-jerk jackass at times, where are the employee and colleague stories about him?) All this talk about any one candidate or the other being a "major threat" I find kind of humorous; a candidate has to get things through congress, senate, and -if it's really bad- the supreme court before anything can happen. For instance, Sander's plan will probably fall flat on it's face- if it succeeds, large corporation based in America will move out and take a lot of jobs with them. Tl;DR the president doesn't have anything resembling absolute power and any given candidate won't be able to do the majority of what they say they'll do. #blametakumi Unlike his siblings who just don't have any personality Takumi manages to be absolutely repugnant and an asshole and also just not a very good unit. He's lucky he's in the easy campaigns. Let's see: -He doesn't double fast enemies -He's limited to two range +He has a stupidly good 14 might personal weapon +Said weapon allows him to ignore terrain effects +With the proper pair-up he has about a 40% crit chance +Said crit-chance is something more like 80% in practice +The 20% of the time he doesn't crit he takes a massive amount of health off a faster enemy/doubles a moderately-speedy to slow enemy and kills anyway +He makes an excellent attack stance partner due to his powerful personal weapon and high crit chance And this isn't even touching on his character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claire Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 praise and glorify takumi i love beautiful people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkDestr0yer61 Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Takumi is my favorite character in Hoshido. Praise Takumi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Anyway, the point is that Takumi doesn't know much of any of this, and is willing to send his men forwards all the same. But doesn't Takumi just need to get one man into your zone to win the war? While it might be a poor tactic in real-life warfare, under Fire Emblem rules sending wave after wave of his own men at you is a pretty sound strategy. Especially since it's renowned for being one of the most brutal chapters ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah the Prussian Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 But doesn't Takumi just need to get one man into your zone to win the war? While it might be a poor tactic in real-life warfare, under Fire Emblem rules sending wave after wave of his own men at you is a pretty sound strategy. Especially since it's renowned for being one of the most brutal chapters ever. No, he needs to get one man into the zone to win the battle. Even if he takes the town, as I went over before, he will be unable to advance due to the horrific casualties his forces suffered, and the supply to the Hoshidans will be tenuous at best. Add a hostile population into the mix, and Takumi just made a huge strategic error in exchange for massive Hoshidan casualties. Remember, he still has to deal with the Nohrian army; Corrin's gang is just a special forces unit, basically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FluffyWarlock Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 (edited) I blame him. Definitely. Edited April 13, 2016 by FluffyWarlock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshcja Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 No, he needs to get one man into the zone to win the battle. Even if he takes the town, as I went over before, he will be unable to advance due to the horrific casualties his forces suffered, and the supply to the Hoshidans will be tenuous at best. Add a hostile population into the mix, and Takumi just made a huge strategic error in exchange for massive Hoshidan casualties. Remember, he still has to deal with the Nohrian army; Corrin's gang is just a special forces unit, basically. Honestly I'm pretty sure getting one man through doesn't even win the battle, Takumi just read Enders Game way too many times. (Yes I know it actually wins the battle, but I'm pretty sure that's because Corin literally dies of shame rather than any strategic importance whatsoever.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimue Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 Endless praise for Takumi. I love his design and personality. Plus he rocks on the battlefield. Embarrasingly enough, I might have been one of the first, if not the first, Takumi fangirl. As soon as they revealed his character sprite in one of the earlier screenshots and everyone was debating over whether he was a girl or not, I decided I was gonna marry my avatar to him in my Birthright playthrough no matter what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted April 13, 2016 Share Posted April 13, 2016 No, he needs to get one man into the zone to win the battle. Even if he takes the town, as I went over before, he will be unable to advance due to the horrific casualties his forces suffered, and the supply to the Hoshidans will be tenuous at best. Add a hostile population into the mix, and Takumi just made a huge strategic error in exchange for massive Hoshidan casualties. Remember, he still has to deal with the Nohrian army; Corrin's gang is just a special forces unit, basically. In previous FE games it doesn't matter if your lord's the only unit alive and there's no way plotwise they could take on the entire enemy force. If you seize the throne, you win. It's the same principle in reverse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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