What do you want out of a main FE lord?

[Raguna]

So basically...

4. Have the lord be a very different class from most sword wielding lords. Maybe purely magic or knife wielding?

Just a general tip Dinar since I'm aware you have a desire to make a FE style game. While knives haven't been done before except with pseudo-lord Sothe, it's generally a safe bet to make a lord be able to wield both a physical and magic weapon like Robin but make them versatile enough to allow them the option to wield lances or axes in character creation if you're implementing that feature as well.

I'm not a magic dude but it's a popular opinion, it's all about balancing and remembering what you truly want from a game. Most designers use swords since everyone loves swords even though they're stale but in the end it's up to you.

Edit: As for genders, I'll take a male bias since I'm male but I won't mind if it goes female since I've never identified with lords in the first place. While gender could play into how some situations are dealt, we could also be stepping into the field where the female lord is as naive as Nohrin or super perfect like in other media.

Edited August 6, 2016 by Raguna

[Magical Glace]

So basically...

1. Have the lord start off as a non-noble and work their way up.

2. Have them make SOME mistakes and have there be significant consequences for them.

3. Don't have them be an idiot.

4. Have the lord be a very different class from most sword wielding lords. Maybe purely magic or knife wielding?

5. Have them start off with some flaws and grow out of them as the story progresses

The first one is optional, but more or less on the rest.

Everything has a balance.

[DarkDestr0yer61]

I like the idea love of the Lord starting off as an arrogant, reckless, asshole. In a few chapters in, he does something reckless that end up injuring himself (forcing him to sit out a few chapters while he heals up) and his reckless behavior resulting in one of his close friends getting killed. And during his time sitting out, he reflects upon the fact that he needs to change how he is for the sake of himself as well as his friends

[blah the Prussian]

I really don't think having them as a non noble is that good. Having them be a noble starts them out in a more interesting position, I think: having a lot of responsibility and not being able to handle it vs slowly working your way up. I think that the former is far more interesting.

[Drarky]

Reading through a lot of this, it seems like the idea of the Lord that start of as unlikeable but puts it's effort into getting better and becomes an interesting character is a pretty common theme, and I can see why. But I would like to try out something different.

I would like a Lord that starts great. As a good leader, decisive and capable. But that while the story progresses, things start crumbling down. He starts making mistakes that frustrates him, his troops distrusts his decisions, and sometimes that ends up being for the better, exposing that Lord's mistakes. I want a Lord who seeks out help from the others to not fail. I want him to be afraid, insecure... but only for themselves, since he's aware about the fact that he is commanding an army, and has to keep up even if just for the rest.

Another thing I would love to see is a good "plot twist" noble. Have you ever wondered why the "evil" nobles or the "mad" ones become like that?

If any of you have ever played Live a Live (SPOILERS), I want a character that passes through a similar trial like the one Oersted passed. Where this noble tries to do things for it's country, tries to save most people and become the hero that they need. But in the end, everything fails, and everyone who he knows and loves, betrays him or just downright hates him. I would love to play the story of the fall of a possible Hero.

[Moblin Major General]

1. Older. Almost all of the main lords are in their teens, and that's only because of Sigurd being in his 20s that not all of them are (and maybe Micaiah because she's a branded).

2. Facing other issues. Many lords lose their parents and homes. What if a lord lost their wife and children instead? How might they deal with that without losing their sanity?

3. Gray. All of the lords are objectively good, regardless of their flaws and the machinations of their enemies. I would like to see a lord that is motivated by nothing, and stands for nothing. Sure, he can do what is good and be hailed as a hero for it, but he doesn't have to care that's he's even doing it.

4. Shown as an authority figure. Let the Jagen or Oifey in the game be someone who respects them, their decisions, and offers advice that can be ignored not out of inexperience, but experience. The Jagen could also be younger than the lord.

[Magical Glace]

(and maybe Micaiah because she's a branded).

Micaiah has to be older than 23, since she had to be alive when Mis'aha or whatever her name was was assassinated. How old she was at that point though is unclear.

[blah the Prussian]

Actually, being older is another thing I think would be cool. I think that the young hero thing is definitely overdone.

[Raguna]

Actually, being older is another thing I think would be cool. I think that the young hero thing is definitely overdone.

I agree speaking for most Japanese games I've played, that I would prefer if they were older and to be honest, the only reason I believe Sigurd, Chrom and the default versions of the avatars look like young adults in comparison is because they needed to look older than their second gen kids. Ike goes to adult due to time skip but in those cases I'm not sure how much it counts.

[The Draco Knight]

Personally, I would like to see a Lord that fight for a just cause, that seems to be some kind of hero, but is actually a questionable person and has some negative that makes him seem to be a little evil.

[Topaz Light]

[spoiler=Reply to Feldsmarschall Rommel's post]

I would like to see a lord that is motivated by nothing, and stands for nothing. Sure, he can do what is good and be hailed as a hero for it, but he doesn't have to care that's he's even doing it.

Honestly, this makes absolutely no sense. Stands for nothing, I would buy, in the case of a particularly self-centered and/or nihilistic individual, but motivated by nothing just isn't how human beings are; everybody is motivated by something, even if it's something simple like enjoying the physical act of doing whatever they're doing, or an aversion to what would happen if they didn't do what they're doing. I'd say a better way of doing a morally-gray protagonist would be to have them be motivated by something more personal and less intrinsically-altruistic, and make a point to put them in situations where acting according to their primary personal motivation would come in conflict with doing the altruistic thing in that situation. A good example in Fire Emblem context would be a Lord who's out for their own nation and only their own nation, and who is willing to throw other countries under the bus when doing so would be more beneficial to them than helping those nations.

[spoiler=Reply to Enigmar's post]

do any of you actually realize that making all of your characters "anti-Corrin" is just as bad as Corrin was?

people are irrationally mad about Corrin so they now want characters like Leif who are just as bad

Leif literally does nothing but make mistake after mistake. Thracia could not happen and Seliph could probably still win. Corrin and Leif are both the worst Lords in the series for the opposite reasons, yet it seems that everyone is blinded by how much they dislike avatars

Everyone says their characters are "flawed," but in what way? Most of these ideas aren't actually new flaw. Chances are, Marth already did it better. Why not have a character who's illiterate or something? That's probably not a particularly great idea, but making mistakes or slightly naive or whatever isn't really new. Especially if you try to make it a point that not everyone likes them.

I don't think you quite understand why people don't like Corrin. It's not because Corrin is morally- or intellectually-perfect; it's actually sort of the opposite.

Corrin is very, very much not morally- or intellectually-perfect, and yet just about everyone in-universe treats them like they are—even the plot itself as a whole gets in on it. They make bad decisions that should have consequences, but don't. The rest of the cast's opinions of and reactions to Corrin are not on the same page as Corrin's actual actions and character traits.

What people (including myself) want is a character with imperfections that are actually recognized as imperfections by the plot and the rest of the cast; that actually have the drawbacks and consequences one would expect them to have. Meanwhile, what Fates does is try to sell a very imperfect and frankly not especially likable individual as some perfect person that they are very glaringly not. At the very least, if you're gonna have a character the plot treats as morally-impeccable, have them actually be morally-impeccable.

I want you to think of a character you really dislike. Now imagine everybody in their native story continually doing nothing but unironically singing that character's praises as though there wasn't a single thing wrong with them, and the writing being such that you were clearly intended to share that opinion of them. Sound pleasant? Imagine playing through one to three entire games with that going on, with that character as the main character. That's why people don't like Corrin.

(With this in mind, an "anti-Corrin" would actually be a character who is more or less morally-impeccable, but who all the characters and the narrative itself treat as if they aren't.)

Now then! As for what I'd like to see in a Fire Emblem Lord...

• Firstly, and most obviously, I want them to follow all the tenets of being a good character in general; consistent characterization, a believable blend of positive and negative traits, fleshed-out and meaningful relationships with other characters, their own personal feelings and opinions on what's going on in the world, etc. etc.
• Character development.
• I do generally want a main character who is, overall, a good person, at least by the time their character development is over. They don't have to be perfect, but it's hard for me to really get behind a main character who's not at least kind of a good person.
• However, I don't want the main character to be a perfect person, either. Like any good character, they should have flaws, and those flaws should affect how they interact with other people in the story. And, yes, their flaws should get them into trouble sometimes, and cause certain other characters to dislike them, openly or otherwise.
• As part of the aforementioned character development, they should overcome or at least mitigate some of their flaws. They should learn from the bad experiences their flaws bring upon them and grow and improve themselves as people.
• Honestly, the whole "young hero" thing really just isn't something that bothers me, personally. I wouldn't mind future Lords being in the same age bracket Fire Emblem Lords have always occupied; maybe a little older. If there is a significantly older Lord, though, their personality and actions should be adjusted appropriately.
• However, I would definitely like to see them play around more with the main character's background, and the circumstances under which they come into a position of command over their fighting force. Fire Emblem protagonists have been particularly homogeneous in this regard, and while I don't at all mind young heirs to reigning houses as main protagonists, I don't think that every Fire Emblem protagonist should be that.
• As far as weapon of choice goes, I'd love to see a main character who wields only Bows, Knives/Shuriken, Anima Magic, Dark Magic, or even Staves in their base class.
• Maybe getting a little specific, but please make their promotion something more interesting than Stat Caps +5, Movement +Horse, and/or Outfit Fanciness +3.
• Also, I really liked the plot-based Lord promotions of the pre-DS Fire Emblem games. Those were really cool and I greatly prefer them to having your Lord's promotion work just like any other character's.
• For appearance, I wanna state that I don't actually mind the whole "young blue-haired swordfighter" look... the problem is just that the series already has seven such characters among its main heroes; eight counting Kris's default appearances.
  (You can obviously customize Robin and Corrin to fit the mold, too, but that's not the default for either of them)
  (Also, for those wanting a comprehensive list: Marth, Sigurd, Seliph, Eirika, Ike, Chrom, and Lucina)
• I want the main character to have meaningful ties with characters who aren't part of their immediate travel group and/or social circle as of the start of the game, and I want those ties to be followed up on later in the game, sorta like how Marth was friends with Merric, who you didn't meet until Chapter 4. Stuff like that.
• I honestly want them to go back to having the main character's early-game personal weapon be separate from their late-game ultimate weapon. It honestly just feels a lot cooler if their unique legendary weapon is something they have to earn over the course of the story rather than something they just start with.

Edited August 6, 2016 by Topaz Light

[Anacybele]

So like Petrine from PoR with red hair?

Yeah, except without a horse.

MCProductions, I stopped reading at "as useful as Roy." Just...NO. Everybody says he is terrible and I can believe it because of his absurdly late promotion.

Edited August 6, 2016 by Anacybele

[Magical Glace]

Yeah, except without a horse.

MCProductions, I stopped reading at "as useful as Roy." Just...NO. Everybody says he is terrible and I can believe it because of his absurdly late promotion.

Roy has some uses (he gets the most broken weapon to exist lategame that basically lets him "erase a unit" and mops up the final boss without breaking a sweat, and early game and Western Isles are Axeland).

Certainly not the worst unit in FE6 (hi Wendy/Sophia), even if he's really hurt by a midgame slump starting around Chapter 13 or 14 and generally one of the worse lords gameplaywise for it.

He'd be more or less on par with FE9!Ike if his promotion time was actually decent, 14(x) or 16(x) being the best picks storywise.

Edited August 6, 2016 by Glaceon Mage

[MCProductions]

Yeah, except without a horse.

MCProductions, I stopped reading at "as useful as Roy." Just...NO. Everybody says he is terrible and I can believe it because of his absurdly late promotion.

That's the thing tho, I LIKE weak lords unit wise, if I have a lord like Ike, Sigurd, or to a lesser extent Corrin, the Lord on his own makes the game too damn easy and less fun for me. Roy and SD Marth are weak yes, but they are not by any means useless. They can hold their own, but they actually need their army's help to pull off the amazing shit they're credited for. If I want a character who's basically a one man army, I wouldn't play FE, because that just goes against the genre of the franchise.

[Topaz Light]

I dunno if I'd really call Roy or SD!Marth weak, exactly... barring Roy's obscenely-late promotion, of course. For the most part, they're both "Just Average™" characters who the game comes about as close to forcing you to use as is mechanically-possible within the framework of the game engine. Because you can't really not use them (at least, not without basically giving up a unit slot in every single chapter), the fact that they aren't that fantastic stands out more, because you're not really able to opt out of using them like you can with other less-than-exceptional units. Of course, the fact that they're both Swordlocked doesn't do them any favors when the game starts breaking out the Lance-using enemies... which, in Shadow Dragon, starts in Chapter 4 and continues through to the end of the game.

As for myself, I think that a Fire Emblem protagonist should by and large be good, but nowhere near godlike. That is, they should be a character you might want on your team even if you did have the choice not to use them, but not so strong that they're regularly rendering their companions irrelevant.

Edited August 6, 2016 by Topaz Light

[Yvette]

I prefer them to be noble. I liked what was done with Ike and his background as a "lord", but I don't want to see that redone. I don't know, I get the feeling that if they did that again they'd make it all about social status and coming from an unsavory background and how impressive it is and blah blah whatever get that main character circle jerk out of here. I like ike. But let's not redo that.

I'd like a lord who's thrown into a war where he has to make morally questionable strategic decisions. This isn't in reference to or making complaints in regards to Fates, I'm talking more like how in FE10 Micaiah knew the side she took wasn't necessarily the "good" one: she had to face decisions such as whether or not to dump toxins into that river, as suggested by Izuka, in order to decimate their enemy. Seeing them grow it what's most important I think.

Statwise I'd prefer the lord to be like Marth. Haven't played FE11, but his stats in his other 3 games were good enough to make him reliable but not broken as he lacked considerable bulk.

Also, I don't want them to be an avatar.

I'd like a story based promotion for them, done in such a way that it shows some sort of transition in their life and/or character.

[Busterman64]

Oh yeah, kinda forgot about story based promotions! I always did like them. Sure FE lords like Roy have ones that are bad timed and Eliwood's is a bit iffy(but not TOO bad), most story promotions are well timed!

Ike from PoR comes to mind again. It's a good point for story and progress(since in Chapter 17, you're gonna want him lvl.20 or real close for part 3 & 4). By that point, you've had a good enough time to train Ike and everyone else you like to use right up to where they can promote. And considering what happens going forward(you start leading an army), the timing just feels right on the nose!

Story Promotions can work if planned out well enough!

[Ebony]

A female lord would be cool. Not just a relative secondary like what we got with quite a few of em. Maybe even a female axe lord?

More variation hair color wise. I love my blue hairs (Hector, Seliph) but I do like some other shades (Eliwood, Leif).

Eliwood was probably one of my favorites personality wise - he felt well rounded. I admit I like Hector more then him, but by no means did I ever hate Eliwood. I very much enjoyed him.

I wouldn't mind another shot at a manakete lord or mage lord either.

[saisymbolic]

A Dragoon-based lance-wielding armor-clad main lord. The hair and skin color can be chosen and facial features such as scars, freckles, moles, burns etc. need to be available and appear on the portrait. Being either man or woman matters not. Nobility is not required—I would prefer an everyday soldier rising through the ranks.

I would personally enjoy a character that starts out lowly, slowly but steadily rises through the ranks, develops a bit of a narcissistic complex, gets knocked down a few pegs via their lord/companions/allies/foes and then develops into a true well-rounded hero. Or not. I would just like a bit of dimension, honestly.

[ping]

I wouldn't mind a lord with Roy-tier combat who strengthens his surrounding units instead, be it via supports or via skills (like Elise's personal, for example) or both. Less fighter and more commander, essentially. For weapons, I have a certain bias for sword+indirect, so Robin's and Corrin's sword+tome or Lyn's sword+bow would be great.

Storywise, I actually like that Corrin grew up in the Evil Empire instead of the small-ish nation that gets attacked and conquered by said Evil Empire. If Garon wouldn't be so incredibly obviously evil, it could have been really interesting to see CQ!Corrin discover that he was fighting for the wrong side all along. But as it is, discovering that Garon is irredeemably evil and can't be changed anymore isn't excactly shocking.

The lord (I don't really care if he's actual nobility or not) doesn't have to be morally grey himself. I enjoyed PoR!Ike who throughout the game always tries to do the Right Thing even if it gets him into trouble or Roy who decides to help the people on the Isles even though confronting Etruria at that point was pretty darn stupid. I don't want a perfect lord only making correct decisions, of course, but I wouldn't mind a protagonist that tries to be one but occasionally fails and gets into trouble for it.

[Flee Fleet!]

I still say Healer lord.

If the lord has a priest type class, it's possible to incorporate a personality of someone who's sweet and does not wish to fight anyone, as necessary as it may be, and would most likely want to negotiate with the enemy.

Or, the lord wants to be a healing type lord for he/she wishes to heal people rather than kill them, or maybe even because it's a custom among the royal family of the kingdom the lord would come from.Besides, the lord can be a healer as well as a tactician of a sort, so it's more about the other playable characters defeating the enemy rather than the lord themselves.

But that's just my opinion tho.

I would like to see the three lord concept again, as shown in FE7.

Also more hair color variations for lords definitely.

[NekoKnight]

For the basics of a protagonist, I'd want him to:

1. Have a character arc.

2. Be competent but flawed.

3. Be charismatic but not universally loved.

4. Gameplay-wise, he should be above average but not too strong.

5. Have him use a tome as a starting weapon.

I would like a Lord that starts great. As a good leader, decisive and capable. But that while the story progresses, things start crumbling down. He starts making mistakes that frustrates him, his troops distrusts his decisions, and sometimes that ends up being for the better, exposing that Lord's mistakes. I want a Lord who seeks out help from the others to not fail. I want him to be afraid, insecure... but only for themselves, since he's aware about the fact that he is commanding an army, and has to keep up even if just for the rest.

I second this. Here's my protagonist/plot pitch.

The protagonist is a low-born child who has grown up in country that is often at war with its neighbors. Tired of being trodden on by the upper classes and victimized because of the constant wars, he vows to one day be king (not that anyone takes that seriously). Flash forward 10 years (the start of the game) and the protagonist is the co-leader of a mercenary group along with a childhood friend. Their group is similar to the Greil Mercenaries, focused on helping out commoners. The friend is satisfied with being the peoples' heroes, but the protagonist wants to take the group to greater and greater heights. The protagonist is a tactical genius and eventually the group catches the eyes of the nobles. The group is elevated to a national level of importance, being responsible for making their country the dominant power on the continent. As the protagonist continues to rise in society and take victories, his confidence leads to arrogance which makes him underestimate his enemies. At a crucial point, he loses a significant battle which takes away a lot of his stature in the country. Still, he is determined to become the king, which leads to some morally ambiguous schemes.

Edited August 7, 2016 by NekoKnight

[blah the Prussian]

Having a moment like that would actually be good; a kind of hopeless battle. Narratively speaking I think the problem with most FE stories is that the characters keep winning and winning and winning and that leads to there being little tension; having a "darkest hour" point in the middle of the story would do a lot to fix that.

[Dinar87]

My idea for a protagonist is this...

Have the protagonist start off as a peasant in a village who helps out with things like defending said village from bandit attacks and stuff. Until one day a band of soldiers decide to ravage the village in order to pleasure themselves (possible rape?). The protagonist stands up to them and defeats them, barely, with the help of a few friends of theirs. Unfortunately, this makes them criminals in the eyes of the empire and they soon find themselves running from location to location, gathering up more and more bitter and resentful citizens who've been wronged in some way by the army.

In addition to all of this, there'd be chapters where you play as the sibling of the protagonist who's joined the army (in order to feed their family) and the sibling's eventually fight each other where lots of people die. It would be an unwinnable battle for both sides. Then, after much kerfuffles they'd join up and defeat the big bad (and a few Camus's along the way).

Don't know how to end it tho.

The protagonist would only be exceptionally skilled in battle. In terms of looks, intellect and popularity, they either are a mixed bag or, in the case of strategy, have someone else fulfill that role (like Soren). Both sides would have a mix of decent folk who just want the country to have a better ruler/be ruled properly...and opportunists who seek to only benefit themselves. Because of this, the reputations of both armies is lacking at best.

The protagonist would wield knifes or other Hidden Weapons. They'd specialize in Speed and Skill but would be lacking in Defense and Resistance. They also start off as somewhat classist but, after a few more honorable higher ups would join, learn to control their behavior for the benefit of their army. Unlike Corrin, not every in their army would necessarily like them. Some just see joining their side as the most beneficial path to take rather than looking up to the protagonist or anything.


These are very rough ideas of mine so feel free to give feedback if you want. I'd like to know how to improve my ideas.

Edited August 7, 2016 by Dinar87

[SageHarpuiaJDJ]

Long post incoming!

Okay... I actually have two lord ideas. The general concept is that both are lords of different kingdom statuses. One kingdom is the capital of a well known continent that has an allegiance of the founding nations make the important decisions of each. The other is a small, up coming kingdom that's still developing it's culture and not on the map as a well known nation. Both lords will be responsible for leading and managing an army.

The lord of the capital nation is assigned as a leader of a small army to learn how to lead and to learn about how different people of different statuses of class behaves and how to relate to them. The lord is a good fighter taught by said lord's father, and very laid back, barely acting like a noble at all. The lord never really focuses on learning leadership and honestly doesn't want to even lead the nation, because the lord is afraid of the change that might happen when that time comes. The lord doesn't want to be a commander, but her parents stay firm with they're decision. As the journey progresses and the lord meets more people, the lord realizes the importance of protecting these people and the continent. and grows bond with the soldiers that are recruited/joins the lord from the start. This lord is a female who, although is a very good fighter story wise, starts out kinda weak. She mainly uses an axe, but after the game progresses a little, she can use swords, and uses lances when she promotes. Her personal axe will be good against horse and armor units, but she won't get it till the story progresses in terms of recruiting new units. The legendary axe that she gets is a special axe linked with other legendary weapons that other units can use. In terms of stats, she'll have good HP and skill, okay defense, low strength(though her starting strength is good) and speed, bad luck and resistance, and no magic growth.

The lord of the growing nation decides to lead the nation's main army in order to prepare for conquistadors who might try to take the small growing land. and is the opposite gender of the great continent's capital noble. As a fighter, he's self taught, only going by from what he sees from the neighboring large continent's visiting soldiers who sends aid and funds to the growing nation. As a person, he's actually a very hostile and bitter person who shows no signs of humility and downright insults others who he thinks outclasses him and makes a mistake. Because of this, his troops start to tire of his behavior, and they stop treating him as their commander altogether. They instead treat the Jeigan character as the commander instead. Due to this, he decides to try and change how he acts and talks to people, with some units that didn't hate him guiding him. He then grows into a sarcastic, blunt leader who knows when he's gone too far. As a unit, he's like the female, but with a few differences. His main weapon is a lance, and after the game game progresses a little, he can use staffs, and when he promotes he can use Dark tomes. His personal lance will be good against any mage unit. Like the female lord, he doesn't get it until the story progresses for sometime, but he gets his weapon even later then the female lord. His legendary will be a more modified version of his personal. In terms of stats, he'll have good HP, resistance, and speed, okay magic and slightly lower strength than his magic, low luck, and bad skill and defense.

[spoiler=for a bonus]The lords' kids will have the same gender of said lord.

The child of the female lord isn't as out there as her mother. She's actually rather timid, but isn't afraid to help others as well as give advice. As a unit, she starts off as a staff user, but gets able to use swords later on, and gets a flying mount when she promotes. At a base, her HP, skill, and defense is lower than her mother's, but her magic and luck are greatly higher, and her speed and resistance are slightly higher. She share's her mother's strength growths, though.

The child of the male lord isn't super blunt like his father, but he does give out good criticism. He doesn't have any good common sense, however. As a unit, he starts off using Dark magic, but gets able to use Light magic later on, and uses Anima magic and a grounded mount when he promotes. At a base, his HP, speed, and resistance will be lower than his father's, but his skill is greatly higher, and his defense and luck are slightly higher. He shares his father's strength and magic growths, though.

Edited August 7, 2016 by SageHarpuiaJDJ